Episode 102: How To Establish A Product-Based Business with Loved Ones and Working with International Suppliers - An Interview with Becca Stern and Jess Stern, Co-Founders of Mustard
In this episode, Fiona talks to sisters and co-founders of lust-worthy locker business, Mustard, Becca and Jess Stern, about how they established a product-based business that runs out of two different sides of the world and employs international suppliers. Listen now as they talk about how working together has improved their relationship, how they developed their branding and why giving back matters to them.
Topics discussed in this episode:
Introduction
Catching up
How Covid affected Mustard
How the business came about
Becoming a business for both sisters
On working with other people in different parts of the world
On working with a sister or relative in growing a business
Preparing their branding
Growing the product range
What helped them in their business
Their support system in the business
Doing things differently
Proudest moments in the business
On giving back
What is next and how to connect with Mustard
Conclusion
Connect with Mustard Made
Episode transcript:
Our business's success to each other, it means something to me that this business is successful. It's not just the money, but the impact that it's had on Jess' life. And then the next step for that was tying our success to something even deeper, which was donating to Beam and the work that they do. And that really kind of drives us personally beyond the money in the sales or it's this other thing to reach for.
Hello and welcome to Episode 102 of the My Daily Business Coach podcast. Now, have you ever considered going into business with your best friend or your sister or your partner? I think so many of us have considered. What would it look like if I was in a business partnership with somebody I really, really trust? Well, today it is a small business interview, and I'm going to be talking to two incredible small business owners who also happen to be sisters. They live on opposite ends of the world, one in London, one in Newcastle, but they've somehow made their business work and especially pre-Covid. The business was almost like an excuse for them to travel and see each other. And also the business has allowed them to not just, you know, talk to each other like siblings, but also talk day in, day out, multiple times of day.
So really keeping in touch despite the distance as well. So the small business owners that I'm talking to today are Becca and Jess, and they are the co-founders of Mustard Made. Now Mustard launched in early 2008. And I came across it on Instagram and immediately reached out to Becca. And I was like, oh, my gosh, this is awesome. At the time I was writing for the Design Files, I had a small business column in the Design Files every month. And so I asked Becca, would it be OK to interview you for the Design for Small Business column? And she said yes. And immediately I just felt like, oh my gosh, this woman is so warm and passionate and knowledgeable and wise. And she just loved what she was putting out into the world with her sister, Jess.
And as you'll see in today's podcast interview with both Jess in London and Becca in Newcastle, the two of them have been able to take the best of their previous careers and create something that is not just, you know, beautiful to look at and amazing products, but really a robust system that has suppliers in different countries. They have freight and shipping and they have warehouses. You know, in Europe, they have warehouses. Here they have, you know, a manufacturer in China and they've been able to make it all work. And in light of everything that product-based businesses especially have had to deal with in the last year and a half, that is no mean feat.
So in today's podcast, we are talking about why they came up with the name Mustard, where did that come from? Why lockers? Did they ever want to branch out? Did they think they were going too small? How did they find a manufacturer? How do they work together when the time difference between London and Newcastle is so great? And how do they kind of manage all of this while also looking after young families? Jess is currently pregnant. Congratulations. And Becca is the mom of three boys. So suffice to say such an inspiring interview. You can just tell the love that they both have for each other and for their business. So, yeah, it really, really inspired me. And I know it will for you, too. So here it is, my interview with small business owners and founders of Mustard, Becca and Jess Stern.
Fiona: I was super excited to be talking to Becca and just from Mustard's, they welcome, ladies. How are you both?
Becca: Hi. We're really good. Thank you. Thanks for having us.
Fiona: Oh, you're so welcome. And I love that we've got an international flavour because we've got Becca in Newcastle. And Jess, I believe you're in London.
Jess: Yes, I am. Nice and early this morning.
Fiona: Well, thank you both for making time to come on to the podcast. So, yeah. How's how's life right now for both of you and I guess coming from the year that we've had. How has it impacted both of your lives and your business?
Jess: So life is pretty big and exciting right now. I'm currently five months pregnant with my first baby and also renovating my home while living with my in-laws and planning to launch Mustard's in America. So kind of juggling it right now and but loving it and feeling really good. And I feel like I'm exactly where I need to be in life right now. So, yeah, it's it's kids.
Becca: And over here in Australia. Yeah. Thankfully it hasn't been so awful for us, particularly in Newcastle. We haven't really had any major, major lockdowns, just a small stint of being terrible at home schooling a three year old and an 11 year old. That was pretty challenging. But after that, it was all we've been just been very, very lucky. But yeah, feeling pretty busy. I've since had another baby since it started. So now I've got three boys and a business that operates around the world. So, yeah, there's just a lot of a lot of work to do, a lot of people to keep happy and not very much sleep,
Jess: Say, in terms of covid here in the UK, it's been a very different story. We're still very much going through and going into May 2021 and life is still pretty uncertain. Thankfully, things are opening up a little more, but this past year has just been about making sure that our team, our little family, is our main focus and that everybody is happy and supported as best we can. Our team has been juggling multiple children and no schools for months and losing family members and feeling isolated, stressed, worried. And we felt it, too. And it's it's been it's been a lot there's been a lot of uncertainty as a family business. We wanted to make sure that we can all come out the other side together as a team and know that we're there for them as much as they're there for us, which we've definitely felt this past year. We're so lucky that it does go both ways and we're incredibly lucky that they've adapted to the change and all the challenges that we faced. So, yeah, it's been it's been a year
Becca: From a production point of view. It's been one hell of a bumpy ride. Way back in February, we were due to go to China to visit our factory and it was really cut and dry weather. We would be able to go like the next week and we ended up having to cancel our flights, which thank goodness we did. Now we know what actually happened. But yeah, it kind of really all kicked off us very early on, pretty much from then on, production has just been a fight to get things. Everything's been kind of slower, more expensive, more stressful, more just a lot more inconsistent. So there's been a lot of challenges from from that point of view. And because we really love doing things in person, not being able to actually go, that made it a lot more challenging for us to develop new products and a lot less fun because we actually like we love seeing each other. We love working together. And we now for the first time, haven't seen each other for over a year, which is crazy.
Jess: And we miss each other a lot. But then then the freight side of things. Obviously, we're a global business. We're shipping things to Australia and the UK and freight has just been a story after story. And I've been we've had delays left, right and centre. We've had a fire on a boat that got delayed for 60 days. The whole crew got quite a bit and they had to be quarantined. We've had snowstorms. There's a sandstorm in there with the Suez Canal typhoon's backlog's union disputes in Sydney. And now we're kind of dealing with the consequences of all those prices, just really going through the roof and and having a real financial effect on our business. But we're very much going through this with everyone else.
Becca: So that's just it's just how life is at the moment. And we've really got pretty good at taking a big, deep breath and just having a good old laugh about it. And we just know that we're not the only ones in this position and there's very little that we can do about it. So we just try and focus on what we can control and yeah, take deep. As often as we can.
Fiona: Wow, that is just phenomenal. I just want to talk about the fire on the boat and this and that. But I was not laughing, but just sort of like, oh, my God, how do you two keep standing? Plus both having you're pregnant and you've just had a baby before, like, oh, I lost in all that. You just kept going at all, let alone continue to pump out so much great content. And and that's part of what people absolutely love the most and brand for is your branding and your content and just this consistency that you have across everything that you put out there. And a lot of people do know your lockers and they know about your amazing brand. And before we hit record, I was saying how many times people will ask me if the locker behind me is messed up because that's a wish list. But you have this business and you talked about it's based in the UK and Australia. Can you talk us through what Mustard is and how the business came about? And also why the name Mustard? Because I'm sure you get asked that all the time.
Becca: We do. Yeah. So Mustard is really like a baby to us. It was born because we'd always talked about starting a business together and just came over to Australia to meet my new baby, Ellis, when he was just a couple of weeks old. And we were walking along the beach here in Newcastle and talking about this idea of starting a business. And we kind of hold that as like the day that Mustard was born, really. So I'd read this article about Whispy Days and it just really struck me. So the article was saying that there's some ideas that are just so timely and of the moment that if you said them out loud and somebody heard you, they could run off and take your idea and use it. And the article is saying that kind of contrary to what you might think, that these ideas are not always the ones that make the best business and that they're not the ones to kind of to counsel, and it's actually the ones that are more unique to you and that you could take the idea and do it in a particular way that is uniquely yours. And anyone else could come along and do that thing, but they couldn't do it the way that you do it. So that was kind of the starting point for this conversation as we're strolling along the beach and I've got my little one month old baby and I thought about my home and my studio. That's where I made jewellery. And I had all these rusty old lockers. And I had this one particular one that I had found on the side of the road. So at the time, like a few years before, I had been a single parent for a long time and like most of my furniture was literally off the side of the road and was always kind of living on a shoestring. So I had these like rusty old things that I absolutely loved. And that was this one in particular that was dark green. And it had a randomly painted pink side, which if you know our products, you'll you'll know that that makes a lot of sense. And the placement of the vans and the logo were really inspired by this, like horrible old rusty Lucka that nobody except me would have loved. And so it was that kind of unique excitement that I had. So that that thing, that object, the fact that I saw beating it and then. Yeah, kind of kind of all rolled on from there. So the name must we always, always get asked. It seems so obvious to us now, but obviously it's a little weird if you haven't had a look around Mustard before. So the idea was that when I was driving the I, I kind of had this light bulb moment and having spent a lot of time thinking about what I was going to call my baby who ended up being Ellis', but had I had a go, I had a whole load of colour related names like olive or lavender, what was of on my mind. And I never got to use them, but those colours were kind of floating around in my mind. So then I had some specific criteria for the name that it would have to meet. And this is kind of based on my previous business names and just things I kind of learnt along the way. So those were like having something as easy to spell and easy to remember. It had to be kind of open enough that you could take us anywhere we want to go, like we might start selling lockers, we might end up selling something else altogether. But this name had to kind of be big enough to embody all of that and all the potential for what the business could be. It had to sound nice and just look nice written down. So the way that the letters form when the paper was really important as well. And then I just loved the Mustard has these sort of multiple meanings like the colour and the sauce. And it's something that not everyone likes. Like not everyone likes the colour and not everyone likes the sauce. And that was kind of cool to me that if it was a little bit like I look like not everyone gets it and that's OK, that's us. And then after kind of suggesting it to us and has a way of thinking about it, and my argument was that, like, if Apple can sell computers and iPhones, then maybe a brand could.
Jess: You remember being on the train when you called me and I was on my commute to work and you were like, what about Mustard? And I was like, what the hell are you talking about? And like, you explained it to me, and I remember spending the entire day at work. And then I think it was the next morning, it's taken like,
Fiona: Oh, I love that. And I actually also feel like I don't know if you'll notice, but it's like a prophet or like a story in the Bible about, you know, if you have the if you have the faithfulness of a Mustard seed or the hope of a Mustard seed, which apparently the tiny seed that exists, you know, look at what it can what can flourish from that say, oh, such a beautiful.
Becca: Absolutely. And I'm a I'm a big believer in quiet and the power of words. So, yeah, that that quite often comes to mind.
Fiona: Yeah. And I love that you just have this, like, casual chat on the beach with this whole incredible brand. And I feel like that's I love that you shared that because that Genesis is often not spoken about enough. And we often hear this whole like sit down and do a full business plan and do this, this, this. And it could just be a casual conversation. I love. Yes. So much of what you just said and thank you. And the whole idea of colours and names and it doesn't need to be. So my daily business coach is very clear what it does. And I love that you've left yourself open to do anything that you want. I often feel caged in by my name. I'm not going to change any time soon, but I often dream of changing my name. But yes, how did you go from having this conversation and kind of putting it out? And you two are very creative. I'm sure you have lots of ideas and stuff, but how did you go from starting that to actually going, OK, we're going to get Lokos and we're going to get prototypes made and particularly when you're both living on opposite sides of the globe and different time zones. So it's not like, oh, yeah, we can both work together for the next twelve hours. And just none of that. Was it originally a side project, was it sort of this would be fun to do. Let's just make a couple and we could sell them to our friends. Or did you think from the start this is going to be a business that can support both of us?
Becca: Mustard was always meant to be a full time thing for both of us and. Yeah, I think that had a lot to do with the point that I was at in my life, so before I had lost it, I had my business and I did a lot of markets every weekend. And I was also running a monthly market as well. So I felt like I was working really, really hard and eventually kind of got to this point. I had a baby and just stopped. I just needed a massive break and I kind of gave myself that first year in my mind was like, I'm just going to have this whole year off and by the end of the year, I'll know I'm going to do next and I'll figure out the next step. But at that point, I didn't really know. And then about a month later, Jess comes along. We're walking along the beach and we have this whole idea and you know, the rest. So that ended up being really, really busy for me, actually. And I absolutely loved that that kind of part of my life. I guess like I had this new baby and I was sat on the sofa breastfeeding with a laptop in one hand, Googling where a look is made. What are they made from? Who can make the really, really starting at the beginning. And I literally just searched the Internet. I Googled everything I could Google. I asked everyone that had any kind of related experience or any friends or friends who might have had some experience. And I read books and listened to podcasts or I just kind of tried to soak up as much as I can. And then I also did a business course one day a week. And that was like for me personally, I'd run a business. But it was on a very, very small scale. And I knew that at this point I had a lovely husband and I had kids. And I was also like most importantly, I had my little sister to think about. So I really, really wanted this to work. Like there was a lot riding on it. And I needed to have that confidence that I was doing the right thing. So the business course just helped me create that business plan, although it ended up going out the window very quickly. I think what I projected we would do in the entire two years, we did like in the first month. So it was pretty crazy once it did kick off. But yeah, that that year was kind of the building, the foundations. And at that point, Jess was working full time. So it was kind of just me and then. Yeah. Feeding stuff back to Jess.
Jess: Yes, I was working full time in fashion at the time, and I had had a 10 year career working for big brands and big businesses, but one part of the job that I always loved is working with Factualness. And it's something that I've done for a long time. And it's really my happy place, you know, working with people like the world, learning about the different ways of working or their capabilities and different cultures. It's something that I personally really enjoy. But the time is back to kind of resetting everything with Mustard. I was doing a full time job with a two hour commute every day. So most of that commute in the morning was on the same tobacco and it was an overground chain and I could talk to her, was doing Monsted. And then I would go and turn up at the office and I do my day job. And it was very much a secret for a good year. And even that first trip, second to it was my holiday. I was taking from work. And I came back and it was, oh, did you have a nice time? Did you go to the beach? I'm like, Yeah, I did do. That was a trade show. And I was working with out of the yeah. It was a lot of juggling that first kind of 18 months. But definitely, you know, Zefram, from that point of the ideas and everything. We spent a few months researching and we booked flights to visit factories in China. So that was kind of about six months after the initial idea kind of happened. And for us, it was so important to go to China ourselves to meet the people that we were hopefully going to work with and make our products come alive. We say this a lot, but it is always all about the people. The people are going to make dreams happen. We saw a range of different factories that varied a lot in terms of scale, whether they were a bit more corporate or family. And we ended up with a family owned, medium sized factory. And we just really had a gut feeling from the start that they were the right people to work with. They had a similar ethos to us, and they really kind of believed in all of our little ideas from the start, including like caring that most of the factories were like, no, never doing that. That's ridiculous. So, yeah, we definitely feel like we found the right factory. But like from the stuff
Becca: Mustard was always going to have to be big. Our products are big and the scale that we needed to produce meant that doing it as a side hustle was just never an option. We would just all in sink or swim from the stop.
Fiona: Oh my goodness, I love that. Just when you were talking about your commute, it just gave me like shivers back to when I worked in London. I took every job I had seemed to not be in London. It was like first in oh my God, Milton Keynes. Is that the year? And then I worked at Slough. And then when I finally got a job in London just before we left, I was like, oh no, this is the only fifty out commute for. But I think it's amazing that you talked about that because and also a bit of sharing about being on the couch with the baby at home and doing it you both with doing the work. And I feel like sometimes I'm totally anti hustle, but I'm not against doing the work. And I think sometimes people have these ideas, but they're not working on it consistently like you guys, you know, when you're breastfeeding, working on it or when you're on the commute, thinking about it, talking about it, working on such an important thing to discuss.
Becca: I think that's really key in terms of laying the foundations like that year, we gave ourselves from the point of having the idea to launching was an entire twelve months and you can do a lot in 12 months, but you have to do it. Like you said, it is about that consistency and building and looking at every piece of the puzzle and looking at it backwards, look at it upside down and really trying to make sure that we had a solid place to start from because we were talking about buying containers of lockers like that is crazy going from this idea to suddenly a 40 foot container of lockers arriving to a warehouse in Sydney.
Fiona: And you better hope that itself. Absolutely. What you would have done, the planning in the work. And I think also that's really important because so often I hear from people that want to start a business and when they tell me they jump straight into hell, I know what my logo is going to look like. You know, I've got this really cute website and it's like, what about the money? Is it going to come from, you know, what about your values? How are you going to anyway? A lot of people do want to create a product based business or they've got a product based business and they're trying to scale it and they want that part of that to be that the product is made overseas. And I love that you talk about the relationship you have with the factories there and how you you met with various different places and found people that are aligned with. Who you are, can you talk us through some of the things that surprised you, whether good or bad? And I'm sure some good, because it seems like all we ever hear is the bad stuff that you feel and spoken tough enough about. So the good parts of it, as well as maybe some things that people should be aware of.
Becca: Working with our manufacturers in China has been such a positive experience, like we've we've gone there lots of times together and we've each gone alone a couple of times as well. And the first time we took I took my baby was six months old and just also brought along our dad from England, which was fun. He was not very adventurous with his food tastes, but it was great to have him. And yeah, it was it was just so great to see this country. Like China has such an enormous amount of history and culture and food and music and culture. And it's just such a beautiful and interesting country to be in. And so to be able to kind of go there and connect with people and for them to show us around where they live and see it not just as a tourist, but to really connect with the people that we met and build those relationships. It was yeah, it's it's always something that we absolutely have to do. And not being able to go there for the last year and year and a bit now has been. Yeah, it's been it's really sucks. We we really want to get back there. When we were over there, the the mother who owns the business that manufactures she's now a grandmother and she absolutely loves Ellis like she adored him. And every opportunity she got, she would just take him straight out of my arms and feed him a banana and like rock him off to sleep. And then she'd come back to me when he needed abscessed and which was her saying that he needed a breastfeed, I think, yeah, we've we've really, really enjoyed that part of our business.
Jess: Yeah. And we really believe in these relationships. Like you said before, it's all about the people. And we have so much in common with the guys running a global business, a family business that is really in its infancy. And it's been really cool to know that as our business is grown, it's really impacting that as well. And that growing alongside us as well as both of our families as more kids. Now, in terms of what isn't spoken about, I think we need to shed the fun side and the pleasure is to work with people in other countries, the cultures and the traditions. When you do visit, go and spend the day doing some things that aren't just visiting factories and eating food that you might not usually try. And it's been such an honour to be able to do that. But yes, like things like language barriers are always going to be there, but we just find different ways to communicate. I speak to a factory every single day and they actually don't speak very good English. So everything is Google translated automatically and it works perfectly.
Becca: So just as I said, their day-to-day communication with our main man at the factory and she said the other day that working with him is one of her favourite parts of her job and she really values his friendship. This is so sweet. And it really made me so happy.
Fiona: Oh, I love that. Thank you for sharing that, because I feel like quite often we just hear horror story after horror story. And, you know, and I think also, like I used to work at a clothing factory in Brunswick and I remember I was doing some articles and stuff and the owner who'd rather he was from Italy originally and came out when he was 14 and built this thing, and he was saying, you know, often people can look at China and other places and dismiss things and he's like, they've got the best of the best. They have the best trained people. They have the people who know how to fix the machines. They have these like things and stuff that we've lost all of that talent. So he's like, you know, you can go there and you can find people that are out of this world incredible. Solving problems and finding them. Yeah, I just think, yeah, it's really good to hear the good stories as well.
Becca: Absolutely. China has a really long history with manufacturing. They are really, really good at it. And the economy is is kind of invested in that. Whereas, say, here in Australia or in the UK, it's just not the same. That is not the same framework around manufacturing. So it makes a lot of sense for us to have gone to a place where, like this whole factory is set up to to create dream products. And it's perfect and also the fact that we are a global business. So for us overseas is either trade any country we're always overseas. Sending things from Australia to the UK doesn't make a whole lot of sense either. But for us, China being kind of centrally located means that we can distribute to both countries from that point.
Fiona: Yeah, I love that. So you guys are sisters. If we haven't mentioned that it's a family business, how do you figure out who does what, particularly when you start? And do you think that being sisters has allowed you to sort of say things or or hash things out in a way that potentially you wouldn't if you would just business partners with a friend? Do you think there's, I guess, the pros and cons? And also, what advice would you give to people who are listening, who are thinking, I'd love to go into business with my sister or my cousin or my my husband, my wife? What sort of advice would you give? So I guess sorry, there's two parts to that question. How did you figure out who does what when you first started and then what advice would you give to other people listening that might want to do this?
Jess: So start by saying that we do love each other. We're very lucky in that sense and we have a lot in common, but we're also really different and we have different skill sets. And we both noticed that quite early on. I've always worked in big businesses, has always worked for herself, and I get excited about production and she gets excited about the division happened really naturally, like I said from the beginning, and now that our partners are both working in the business as well. That's come really easily to be the key focus for us is just do what you good at. But now that I think that we've got a team and it's getting bigger, it's really helped to define everybody's roles. And we've done a really great job of making sure that everyone knows the business inside out and kind of stick to their own names.
Becca: So we are literally best friends as well as those guys and has always been like that. And we've definitely had our ups and downs. So as kids, our life was tough in some ways. Mum struggled with mental health problems throughout our lives. So that really had a big impact on us and has shaped a lot about who we are and I guess what's important to us both. Our parents also worked for themselves. I think that's also been quite defining and in terms of how we saw our lives being as well. But yeah, like we really are grateful for the experiences that we've had and how that sort of built our relationship. But we haven't haven't always gone and we certainly still don't always get. And like when we were teenagers, we used to share a bedroom because we had a three bedroom house. And we also we have a brother that nobody, nobody on Instagram at least ever knows about. Hey, my older brother is called Mogg. So he had one room and we shared a room and then our mum had the other room and we kind of had divided it. So it was like two bedrooms in one and just had half. And that was light blue with I think it was dolphins' sort of going around her side and mine was dark blue and lime green. So it's literally one room painted in two different ways. And we just got to a point where we were arguing so much that our mom gave up her bedroom and gave it to Jess so that we didn't have to share a room anymore and then like not long after that, just decided to go and live with Dad. So for the rest of her teenage years, we didn't actually live together. And then I moved from London to Brighton for university. Then I went travelling and ended up moving to Australia. So for a good chunk of our lives, we haven't actually lived physically close to each other. But we've definitely really become very close as sisters and friends
Jess: Working with your family. And that means that you just know each other on such a deep level and there's a real trust that goes beyond the business. And we're both so invested in its success because we want it to be better for both of us and for our families.
Becca: So when when Jess first quit her job, so she had this fashion buying job, she had a steady salary and she took this crazy leap and let's say crazy, but it was planned at that point. We we did have an existing business that was making some money. So it wasn't so crazy. It was. But anyway, she quit her job. And to me, that was a really big deal. Like, my little sister was taking that leap with me. And I promised her that one day we would renovate her flat, we would have the money to do that. She'd been dreaming about it for years and she's held off still like another three years. And right now at the moment, she's at her in-laws because her house is being renovated. And to me, that it just makes me happier than anything I could have ever bought for myself. Like, that's that's the difference of working with a business partner who's just a somebody and somebody that you love to bits.
Fiona: Oh, I wish to sort of like give you a hug. What's the age difference between you two? You don't have to say your age necessarily, which is the difference.
Jess: I am about to be 30 and Becca turned 33 earlier this year.
Fiona: You guys are so young. I feel so old. We've you've done a lot in your short life so far. My sister is four years older than me and it sounds a very similar relationship, like we're best friends, but so different in so many areas. And when we were growing up, I was the person who was always like, oh my God, we hung out tonight. And she'd be like, no, I'm actually also because she's always lived in the country. She's a GP in the country. She left Melbourne as soon as she kind of had done a little bit of work as a as a doctor. And Sophia, like the last 16, 17 years, she's always lived a few hours away and then I lived in London. And so. Yeah, but we've always had that really close bond of talking every day. And so it's so lovely that you had that. And thank you for sharing. Of challenges that you went through as well, because I feel like sometimes people can see things on Instagram and think, oh, their life is just so peachy perfect all the time. So it's really nice to look nice, but to just see the realness as well.
Becca: Yeah. I think, you know, life life is a lot more colourful and complex than Instagram can ever portray. There's a lot more to it. And there's a lot a lot of chapters before this chapter that you're seeing or picking up on on someone's Instagram feed.
Fiona: Oh, my goodness. I'm just like, can you put that in a quote card for Instagram
Jess: Normally before every post is posted, this probably is no argument about what is going to set the reality of it.
Fiona: I love that. Well, speaking of posts and content, your brand is one that I often reference to people as just so consistent in terms of the brand and its just the messages and everything is just really beautifully put together and striking. And from the very first time I think I discovered you guys on Instagram, it's just been super consistent, super cool, everything you put out, newsletters, all of that. Did you again kind of in that year that you were planning out things, did you sit down and plan out the brand in terms of visuals or tone of voice, or has it just sort of been built organically?
Becca: That is really, really very kind of you, and it means a lot coming from you. Thank you. I think a lot of it happened, I'd say organically, but it comes from the products. So thinking of our products look like our products are very bold, the very square. But they're also kind of nostalgic or playful and the colour palette, obviously we we use in our branding consistently. So that's kind of a steady thing. So I think once you got these key points to build your brand from just elaborating on that, but then then sticking to that like I loved on your podcast the other day, the sense of no, I thought that was like really put into words the way that I feel about it. Like once you've limited your colours, you're free to use them in any way you like, but just don't go using other colours. So I think that's that's the way that I kind of look at branding and it's really tied up with what we want to be as a business, who we are as people, what we want to what we expect from brands in twenty, twenty one and our own beliefs or our experiences or our history, all of those things that comes quite naturally. So to be honest, to be open, to share our challenges, for example, like when we had a crazy shipping, things happen just before Christmas and we had to let people down. And so we tried to do it in a really genuine, honest and compassionate way because that's what we believe in. And I think it also helps that we're our target audience so we know what we want out of Mustard as a customer because we are our own customer.
Fiona: Oh, I love it. And I totally resonate. That pulls sense of no as well. Yes. And I love what you're saying about kind of restricting it. I remember once going to talk years ago and there was this creative guy and he said creativity is like a fire. If you can restrict it and put it into a box a little bit, you're going to get better results than just saying you can do anything and everything. And yet and I feel like that's such an important, important point. Even when I was when they were coming up for the cover for my book and the colour palette and stuff, I had all my Pinterest boards and this woman had just redone my my brand. And so she had colour palettes. And I was like, book has a similar colour palette, because if I'm going to have the book plastered all over my Instagram, it kind of makes to go with the rest of it. It's like, yeah, I love that idea of kind of restricting it and thinking holistically. I'm totally your target market. I don't know if I am. I feel like I am because all your stuff is like I could just feel this whole room and my whole house.
It's really good. So most of it has accessories and other products and not just lovers or not just look as I like just but you also do other things, but you're most well known for the lockers. What advice would you give to someone who's listening to this, who wants to start a business and stay sort of intentionally small in terms of range? Not necessarily, you know, small in terms of how much they can scale in terms of sort of product selection. So what are the pros and cons of, I guess, being known for one type of product, which is, in your case, lockets?
Jess: Yeah, I think we have been pigeonholed over the last few years. But the key for us is really making timeless and seasonless products, having come from the career of you've got to be every season, at every point in fashion, it's so refreshing to work such a different way. We aren't the kind of brand that will be bringing out new collections each season, and we want products that are practical and that last a lifetime. And for us, we really think that that is one of our biggest strengths. When we first launched, we had so many ideas and the list is still there today. I'm sure some of them will pay one day. But we really went in and we just launched with cheap products. So we had the short and the skinny and they've become our signature products. And it really helped us to get to know the products, learn about them inside and out and give them cute names and then make them into a real family, because that's how we see them. And since then, a range has grown, but slowly and in a sustainable way that for us is financially possible. So, yeah, keeping it small is definitely part of part of our plan.
Becca: Yeah. As our range grows, so does our team and we also gain more and more experience. So I'm glad that we did start in that small way with just two products and then we've continued. But we still have quite a concise range of products that are all related to the core, which is a allocca. So although we sell magnets, the magnets to put on your locker and we sell hangers to put in and we sell baskets to put in your locker, so you can see the thing that it really is about that kind of strong consistency with our product range. And that's what we do really well. We know these lipids inside and out, and that's what we want people to know about. Just before we launch, actually, we well, we were going to launch with a few more products and I had this great chat with a lovely friend of mine and she she put it this way. She said, you can only have complexity in one direction or you should only have complexity in one direction. So, for example, we have we had a really simple product range, but we had a complex amount of colours. So that made it possible for a buyer to make a decision and having loads of colours and loads of options and kind of overwhelming them with all the possibilities isn't going to make it very clear business proposition or clear brand.
Fiona: Oh, I love that. There's a study that I've talked about before and this podcast called the JAM Study, and it was done, I think, out of Harvard University, one of the big universities, and it looked at people getting a taste of jam in a supermarket. And when they reduced it down to just six flavours, they had like 40 or 30 percent. People bought more jam than when there was 20 flavours because people just got overwhelmed with at least one of these one or this one. I'll just leave it there as if it was just a few to start with. So I think that's such an important thing. Say this is just around all of business books and everything. It's always just like big, big go, big go Brawner. Get the mass market out there. And I love what you guys are doing because you're doing really well, but you're still staying consistent and constrained in some way constrained things like the wrong word, but considered is the best bit of it.
Becca: And I think also we always say that there are still billions of people who have never heard of Mustard. So we can grow our product range, we can grow our colours. But how about we just use those same products to reach a wider audience and then we don't have to have so much more inventory? And every product, every launch comes with a certain amount of risk as well. So this has kept us in a in a place where we can grow sustainably and reinvest our profit and not have to take loans, not have to go outside of our means.
Fiona: So much wisdom you guys are throwing up here, though, in terms of you guys have obviously just offered a whole bunch of wisdom and help to people listening to this. Thank you very much. What has helped you both with building this business? Have you had mentors or courses or books or mantras? Obviously, having each other is a huge thing. You're not starting solo, but what's really helped you build mustered?
Becca: So I have a bit of a motto, which is I think times 10. I'm always saying this to jazz. And honestly, I mostly said to myself, because I think the two of us, I'm definitely the one that thinks smaller. So it's kind of my constant thing that I go to, which to me means if our business was ten times bigger, if we had ten times more products, if we had ten times more staff, would this process work? Sending, for example, Jess and I at first when I was just the two of us, we could communicate just through our phones and text and FaceTime and things weren't really written down. Now we've got a team. We have to be working in a way that works for everybody. And if our team suddenly times 10, would the system still work? So it's definitely that to me is my question. When we're trying to improve something, is, is this big enough and is this kind of future proof? And we don't always get that, but we we definitely try. And then I think the other thing is really asking for help. So I said in that first year when I was sitting on the sofa, I'm like on my own, but I'm not the first person to have done this. I'm not the first person to have designed a product. I'm not the first person to have important things from China. I'm not the first person to use a third party warehouse or to go to a trade show. Surely I can find some people that have done this before and walked that path ahead of me. So go and find those people. And with that, I'd say the caveat of asking people who are where you want to be, you can go and ask Yinan or the guy next door. But if they haven't actually been there, then you don't have to listen to them. So it's OK to take what you need and disregard the rest. Really take advice from people who really know what they're talking about, because when we first launched, so many people thought we were absolutely nuts and they probably still do. But that's OK. The people that we we really trust and value their opinion, they were there to support us in.
Jess: The funny side of that is that we are now these people full of the people out there in the little community,
Becca: Which which we absolutely love. That gives us so much joy to yet to be helping people who when we're just one step ahead.
Jess: Yeah. And I think the big thing for me has been building a community of like minded business owners who have made. Really incredible friends that my stock is to sell my products or have businesses that we've just with just friends on Instagram and we chat in vehicles and I've given advice or they've given advice to me. And that has just really helped to boost a lot of the things that we do and give us confidence as well as vice versa for them as well. And it's just been good to talk through these challenges because everybody is going to very similar situations, especially in this past year that we've had that I really love listening to podcasts say, of course, I've listened to get laid of yours, which I love, and they're reminding me about this age in Cleveland. And I had a good listen of that the other day as well, just in preparation. And then I love how I built this bike Iris, which is an American one. And there's lots of really inspiring businesses and a lot of them that we know that you don't need the backstories and the challenges that they've had. And normally they just come and take their businesses away and then they didn't have them anymore. Really good lesson. What we don't want to happen. And then there's a conversation of inspiration, which is a bit more British and British businesses. And I learn a lot from as well as How to Fail by Elizabeth Day, which is not as much business based, but definitely lots of life lessons on how to be a bit kind of to yourself. I would say,
Fiona: Oh, I love those. Thank you for listening to both of what you've just talked about. I think I listen to Henry Holland on How to fail, and it was such a good interview. I love the idea of talking to friends and even Instagram friends, because sometimes whenever I work with people coaching at the end, I talk about how are you going to stay accountable? Who's your support network outside of paying for a business coach? Because my aim is not to have you paying me forever. And people will say, but I don't have friends in business. And so I think it's so great what you just said, just about even Instagram friends. We all have people that we're following on Instagram who run similar things or running some sort of business that you could just reach out to. And they're probably really interested in talking to you as well and getting your input as well. So I think it's so, so important in terms of and I love the idea of the times to him, I'm totally going to steal that. So in terms of like tools or platforms or kind of technology subscriptions or anything else, what could you not live without when you're running? Must it
Jess: Say, I love to make to do this, but I used to just write them for myself and introduced us to Trello, which took a while to get my head around it and sharing my to do list with the world. But yet we still and we all use it as a as a business and it's great to take things off. And it's so satisfying and visually satisfying as well to be able to see that
Becca: There's a little thing where if you put the confetti emoji in your done column, then when you drag something into it, the little confetti goes off yet. So make sure that everyone has that confetti moment on on their own personal board. And yeah, I think in terms of that think times 10 going from a business where it is just the two of us to a business with a team that is operating while half the team is asleep at any one point in time means that we've had to really transition to think a little bigger and put everything on the cloud. So last year we changed everything over to Google Suite, which ended up being a minor crisis that it happened before we were quite ready. We were supposed to be doing a test and then it all happened and we had to just figure it out from there, which worked out really well. And now I feel like we could not live without it. So all of our spreadsheets in the cloud, nothing can go missing. I feel like maybe that's quite obvious to a lot of people, but to us it was pretty revolutionary. And then things like using later for planning posts and Cannava. So these are things that our team across both sides of the world can easily access access and edit at the same time as each other. Or I can send something over to somebody. And then by the next morning when I wake up, it's all finished. And so I think I think thinking began using using cloud based systems has been great for us.
Jess: I would say at face time, obviously that is useful. We face time more than we probably should multiple times of day. And it's been the life saver for the business. But for us this is so.
Becca: Yeah, and that and that's a lot to do with like us and our relationship, but kind of need to like talk things out. We need each other's support. We need each other to run an idea past. So yeah, often kind of morning and night time we'll be in a jam. Is that we kids around or someone's eating breakfast or dinner or both. And yeah, we're, we're kind of always. Always very connected hundreds and children have developed
Fiona: Oh, I love that, I love that. And I would say everything that we use is on Google Drive or Dropbox. Actually, we trying to move everything off Dropbox to Google Drive. But, yeah, it's so satisfying because even like I just recently had to get this laptop fixed for the first time ever, and I was so, yeah, I was like, oh my God. But then I was like, no, everything's on the cloud. It's all there. It's not really that much on my there is a whole lot of junk, you know, not that much on there. So I guess you guys have been in this for a while now. How long has it been? Four years.
Jess: Three and a half early idea. And three years running the business. Yeah.
Fiona: Wow. I thought it was longer for some. I mean, I knew it wasn't, you know, heaps of time, but my gosh, you've done so much in three weeks. What is one thing that you would have done differently if you were starting out just now?
Becca: I don't think there's a whole lot I would do differently, because obviously I'm glad to be where I am at this point and I really don't believe too much in regrets, but I definitely really stressed about hiring our first employee. It was a huge personal challenge, I guess, for me to overcome, like having worked for myself and I don't know, being a single parent for a long time, like, I was very independent and intent on doing everything myself. And it's still something that I'm gradually sort of melting away from and being able to hire hire the next person or to pay the bookkeeper to just do everything instead of saying, how about you do this? And I'll I'll do the bulk of it. Just saying, no, you just do that. That's what you're really, really good at. And I'll do what I'm good at and kind of that progression into my role as the sort of founder or and then we always argue about who's the real boss, but the boss is definitely the real boss and the secondary boss. But my role is secondary boss, like stepping away from things and saying, no, there's somebody who is better at doing that than me. Get that person to do that. Somebody else, you can do the other thing and I will just do the things that I'm really, really good at. And luckily, Jess is so much better at delegating than me, and that comes quite naturally to her having always worked as a team. So she always so nudges me along and pushes me uphill a little bit.
Jess: It was still working on that. But I think for me, I went through the confidence in my last career and it's taken me a good few years to kind of fill that I am capable. Like you said, I can't believe it's been just three, four years. And actually to me, all the things that I have achieved, I struggled to kind of realise and believe that it was possible. And I think my biggest thing I do wish I believed a lot longer was that I could do it. And it's that self-confidence that I'm still working on. But looking back at a lot of the things I've achieved, I know how capable I am. And that is. Yeah, something that probably just as a woman, we all feel that to a big degree. It's been it's been one of my biggest challenges the last few years.
Fiona: Oh, my goodness. Thank you for sharing that. I feel like it takes a soul because I keep saying that. Yeah. Oh, my goodness. It doesn't. Running a business really teaches you about yourself? Like so much of it. It's not just marketing and processes and using trello and stuff. It's so much self growth because you're forced into situations where you can't hide behind a big team or another person's brand or something else,
Becca: And you're the one making all the decisions. Yet you have to decide.
Jess: You're work with yourself. And a lot of these things are very much in your own head. And we ought to be fortunate that we're both kind of on the same level and where we found this together. But we're in different times and say a lot of these decisions are being made singly and not with each other. Say is it is one of these things where that confidence really does have to grow. And believing in these decisions that you are making, it takes a little practise.
Fiona: Yeah, I love that. Thank you for being so honest, both of you sharing all of this, I guess. What would you be most proud of that you've done in the last few years running this business?
Becca: It's easy, easy to answer that question, so since was it 2019, so September 2019, we started to donate five pounds from every single UK, European or US order to this incredible organisation called Beam. It's a crowdfunding platform and it supports people who are experiencing homelessness. What their aim is, is to really break down the barriers between where they are and where they want to be, to have a steady income and a long term job. And as a home wares brand, we sell products to people's homes and it's a luxury and people don't need a locker. And there are people who don't have a look and there are people who don't even have a home. So for us, that that's really kind of why this this organisation was the one that we really wanted to connect with and is just so clever and it's such a compassionate way to help people like it. It's really giving them the fishing rod, not the fish, like it's a long term solution for changing people's lives that will then ripple down and have effects in their community and their children. So I could talk about it for hours.
Jess: As they say, we've donated fifty three thousand pounds to Beam, which just amazes us. And to be able to do that and to be able to put a value on that and my actions is just incredible. And we are so, so proud of that. Each month I personally go through every single order and create a spreadsheet so that we can calculate the donations and send the list out to everyone, gets an email about their donation so that they can choose the campaign that they want to they want to donate to. If they don't choose, that's fine. It just gets automatically distributed anyway. And it really is one of the best parts of my job. I love doing it. And some months that spreadsheet will take me hours to go through, which is just like it's incredible. And that's because of the amount of orders and these people that are doing to us and then giving back whether they know it or not to other people out there. And it's really special. So you can read more about it on our website and you can see the day to day nations. And there's a link of where our money is going to in the hundreds of people that it has impacted. And it makes us really proud. And the best thing we had an email yesterday from a customer and yesterday was our multibeam day. And it said that they were so amazed by this donation and they had no idea that it even happened when they all did. And they were so proud to have found them. And now they're going to donate every single month, say that's really something that special to us. It's not just about the donation, it's about spreading the words and so that others can then go into being themselves.
Becca: So on Black Friday last year, which was a crazily biggest day, like it was absolute mayhem. I was like driving, driving high around this hectic day. Actually, it was kind of the start of the day. So I knew things were about to get even more crazy over on the other side of the world. And I literally got so emotional thinking that the more sales that we have, the more that tally of donations is going to go up and the more people are going to hear about being. So I think, as I said before, like our businesses success to each other, it means something to me that this business is successful is not just the money, but it's the impact that it's had on his life. And then the next step for that was tying our success to something even deeper, which was donating to Beam and the work that they do. And that really kind of drives us personally beyond beyond the money in the sales or it's this other thing to reach for.
Fiona: Oh, and good luck. That's just amazing. And fifty three thousand pounds is huge. And, you know, I feel like sometimes small business owners think, oh, it was small, what can we do? We can't go build a whole school or we can't go do this or that. And I just think, wow, that touched so many different people. And then the communities at large, like my husband, I volunteered in a homeless shelter in London while we live there. And every time, like at the start, every time a new year would start because it was a it's the Hackney, not winter shelter. And every time when winter would start and we'd go out. Sounds really bad saying this, but every time I'd go, I'd be shocked by the people that were there because looked just like everyone else, you know, like and I feel like people in London especially seem to dress really well. So you, me, a little bit of it. They must be the volunteers. And it's like, no, these people are homeless. And you hear this story and of course, those other people with mental health issues or some other issues. But a lot of the time, those people with just one thing, just one thing, like a car accident or something else where they didn't have the money and they had to choose between rent or fixing that or rent or going to hospital or rent and. Looking after an elderly parent or something, and so they had sacrificed and I always just used to think, my God, it's just one lack of community around you that puts you into that situation.
Becca: Yeah, that's exactly exactly what they found. Founder Alex so talks about and, you know, and that and that's why the way that they work is so clever. So they are able to kind of break down those steps. So somebody, you know, might be totally able to get a job as a they might like they might have all the skills that they need, but they're from another country. So they just need this one certificate to be able to work in the UK, for example. But that certificate cost five thousand pounds and that five thousand pounds is is a very small sum of money in the grand scheme of things to get this person's life onto a completely different path or somebody who just needs some work boots and a simple weekend course to get a job working in a particular industry. But it's it's not a lot. And so being able to kind of contribute in our own small way and like you said, a lot of people say as a small business, you can't do things. But as a small business, do you have total freedom to make these decisions? Like, I can decide where I spend my money, I can decide who I give it to. And and so, yeah, we've been able to to do that and really enjoy that process of sending that money to other people every single month.
Fiona: Oh, I love it. Thank you. And thanks for doing that, but also for sharing it because I feel like so many people listening will be inspired to think, well, what can I do? What, what could we do tonight? How could we change people's lives? So I guess. Thank you so much for coming on to this and Becca for staying up late in the office later and just getting up early. What is next for you both and where can people connect? What's the easiest way if they listen to this and think, oh my gosh, I just need to talk to them and tell them that this resonated with me, where do they go?
Becca: So the next big thing for us is America, which is a very big and scary. And as I said, I'm definitely the one that gets more nervous about these things. And Jess is definitely the sister who's driving this, which I'm really, really proud of her for as well. Very proud of you. Yes. I think we just we're just going to take everything that we've learnt and apply it to another location, knowing that there will be things that we don't know, things that we know we don't know, and the things that we don't know, we don't know.
Jess: But we'll say lots of things that we do know. So I think totally. Yep.
Becca: That America, we are coming for you
Jess: Hopefully later this summer. If all goes to see what happens and what will, the next crisis is going to draw us. But yeah, and otherwise, I'm having a baby this late this summer. And so, yeah, that's going to throw up a whole load of new challenges. And then if you want to find us and see a beautiful, colourful Instagram feed, you can see that Mustard mate, or you can go to our website, which is Mustard made up. And we are always happy to chat with anyone that wants to talk business is talk about whatever they want to be like. Yeah, we're always about to have a chat. And that's the good thing about being a global business is always one of us.
Fiona: Wow. Oh, thank you so, so much. I have just as you know, I love your business. I have to lock it in my office right now. And I loved that they were brand colours, of course,
Becca: It was good coincident
Fiona: It was so. Yeah. Thank you so, so much for coming on and making the time to chat and also for the work you're doing with the team and just in general sharing your story. And I know that so many people listening, they're going to be really inspired by this.
Becca: Thank you so much for having us. It was like a little dream wish list goal of my interview on your podcast one day. So thank you for making that come true. I actually have I have this little book where I write down really special things that happen so that I don't forget them. So I'm going to go put this in my book.
Jess: I think it's been such a pleasure to talk to you and to share with you.
Fiona: Oh, thank you.
Becca: Bye bye, Fiona.
Wow, how lovely are those two sisters, Becca and Jess? It was just my absolute pleasure to be able to chat to them and they just provided so much goodness and so many ideas and tips and insights and what it's like to run a business with a family member, keep a business afloat when you're running it from two different sides of the world with time difference and all of the kind of chaos that we were all thrown into during covid and what is still happening largely in a lot of countries around the world. I took so much from that chat, and I'm sure that you did two two things really stood out for me.
One was finding something to create a business around that is true to you that has meaning to you. I loved how Becca really talked about, you know, this kind of old, tainted and kind of disheveled locker that she had found and how she absolutely loved kind of bringing it back to life. And she really found something that she had a massive passion for. It wasn't just this, oh, we could do this and make money from it. It's we could do this. And we'd love to do that because we love this product and we are already using it and we can already see how it style it and promote it and market it.
And I loved that they came together as sisters to do something that would benefit both of them. And I also loved that they talked about how each of them had different skill sets that they could bring to that and how they've been able to sort of divide up tasks in the business based on their own backgrounds and their own skill sets. And then bringing those together just makes magic.
The second thing that really stood out to me is just how much they value their team and their culture and really not just the team immediately that works with them, you know, day to day in the UK and in Australia, but also their suppliers and their more extended team, if you think about it and how they're treating every single one of those people in the same way, almost like family, because they realise that without them, none of this would be possible.
So I just absolutely love that. I love that idea of, you know, them finding a family run business, small business that they could support by being a client. And in turn, that company could support them. And as one grows, the other grows. So I just love chatting to them.
I'd love to know what you took away from today's chat. So don't be a stranger. Come on over and send me a DM at @mydailybusinesscoach. And of course, I'm sure Becca and Jess would love to hear from you, whether it's your own business with a family member or you're thinking about that, whether it's, “oh, my gosh, I'd love to do something like this” and, you know, find amazing manufacturers offshore or whether it's, “oh, my gosh, I have an idea for a product and I want to kind of keep focusing on that one product. But I've been scared thinking maybe I'm not going to be able to bring in the revenue that I need by not branching out.” I just think there's so much that you could talk to them about. So go on over and find them on Instagram - @mustardmade. And if you want to go and check out their beautiful, beautiful lockers and all the other great things that they sell, check out mustardmade.com. And of course, we'll link to that in the show notes which you'll be able to find over at mydailybusinesscoach.com/podcast/102.
Thank you so much for listening. I'll see you next time. Bye.
Thanks for listening to My Daily Business Coach podcast. If you want to get in touch, you can do that at mydailybusinesscoach.com or hit me up on Instagram at @mydailybusinesscoach.
