Episode 110: Saying Hello to Collaborations With People and Artists All Over The World: An Interview with Jenny Nguyen of Hello Human
In this episode, Fiona catches up with a business friend from New York - the inspiring Jenny Nguyen, founder of Hello Human, an international PR collective for independent creative businesses. Throughout their chat, they talk about collaborating with different people around the world, finding the good in any bad situation people are in, and the importance of finding what values to go with for every small business.
Topics discussed in this episode:
Introduction
Catching up
2020 and Covid
Career History, Melting Butter and Starting Hello Human
Moving To A New Place
On Jenny's Upbringing
Her Mum's Influence on Her
On Doing Collaborations
Dealing with Competition
Learning A New Skill, Understanding Legal Stuff For The Business
Tech Tool Recommendation
Advice for New Business Owners
On Books, Mantras, Courses and Mentors
Most Proud Moment in The Business
What's Next for Hello Human
Connecting with Jenny and Hello Human
Conclusion
Connect with Jenny Nguyen
Recommendations from Jenny Nguyen
Episode transcript:
I wanted a new business idea. I think I wrote it down somewhere and I guess I manifested it. I wrote it down somewhere as a goal that I would come up with a new business idea. I think I read this one article in design. It was actually interviewing Li Edelkoort, she’s kind of a famous trend forecaster in the design and fashion world, and she just talked about how it was going to be after Covid, it was going to be the age of the amateur and that people would have time to really edit their lives and really think about their overconsumption basically, and think about what the meaning behind life is. And that was really true for me, actually. So I thought, look, I'm going to start a new business that kind of speaks to the type of people I want to work with.
Hello and welcome to Episode 110 of My Daily Business Coach podcast, my name's Fiona Killackey. I'm your host. And if you are new around here, thank you so much for listening. I know we have quite a few new people because I can see that the download numbers have spiked, particularly in new areas of the world for us. So hello to our South American friends and hello to Malaysia, where we are definitely seeing an increase, a spike, as well as India, Brazil, the UK and all over America. And we're actually seeing the map now coming closer to the middle of America, not just the outskirts or the outskirts, you know, just like New York. But, yeah, it's really exciting to see that. So, hello to everybody.
And if you are new, you may not be aware that there are three different types of episodes in this podcast. So if you're someone who just likes to binge on kind of quick tips, check out every Tuesday. We have a quick tip episode. It's usually ten minutes or less on Thursdays. We have either a longer coaching episode with me where I take one element of business and really go into it in what can be depth, I guess, for 45 minutes or less. And then, yeah, like today, we have interviews with incredible small business owners across the globe. And today's interview is with exactly that woman who is just so inspiring. And you can't help but be touched by everything that she's created, especially out of what could be a really huge challenge for a lot of people and the challenge that would basically make them give up. And instead, she kind of took parts of that and created something new.
And I can't wait to hear your feedback on this particular episode, but if you are new around here, make sure you hit subscribe and so that you don't miss these coming out. And if you'd like a weekly inbox drop, definitely go over to mydailybusinesscoach.com and subscribe there. And we send business insights every single Sunday.
But as I said, it is a small business interview. And the woman that I'm interviewing today, the small business owner is Jenny Nguyen and she is the founder of Hello Human. Jenny does a much better job than I will do of explaining what Hello Human is. But basically, it's an international public relations collective for independent creative businesses. And she will go into detail about this. But really, it's filling a gap for a whole lot of people out there who want to use PR services but can't afford kind of big agencies with regular retainers. And it's really about collaborating. Whether you are looking to get press in this part of the world, then she will put you in touch with her collective that work for health, human.
And likewise, if you are travelling and you now need to get press in some other city that you've never been to, they have people on the ground who have really great local contacts and could get you into the best media and press opportunities.
And in this interview, Jenny goes into why was that important for her, how her career to date had taken her up to that area, and then how she's grown this business by collaborating and forming connections all over the world. Now, speaking of, you know, forming connections all over the world, I actually met Jenny in New York City in 2015. I was there to attend the Fast Company Innovation Festival, their first one. And I had contacted a couple of people that had been either staying in New York or living in New York. And I'd said, is there anyone that you think I should meet who is just awesome? And they said, oh, you have to meet her. And so I tracked out to this very cool bar one night and she was there and we just got on like a house on fire.
And since then, we've kept in touch on and off, as you do. And we've both been mums. And I had another child. She had her first child, a very similar ages, actually. And as you do, you know, you just have less time. But I really loved reconnecting with her and I'm definitely going to reconnect with her more.
But in this interview, she talks about her career, how she started off in advertising agencies in Australia, and then she moved all over the world. She lived in Amsterdam, London. She regularly visits Milan. She's lived in different parts of Australia. She is actually from Adelaide. But now she calls New York home and she's been there for quite some time. She has a child, she's married and she's even, you know, bought and sold New York property. So she is definitely a citizen of the world. And Hello Human is exactly that as well.
So while she started it in New York City, it is a global offering and they work with people and artists and collaborators all over the world. And collaborating is something that we also talk about in this podcast, because prior to Hello Human, Jenny had started another business, Melting Butter, which was a very, very popular travel lifestyle publication blog. And she did a huge amount of collaborations with different brands. She's worked with everything from Airbnb Art for Amnesty, Robert, Indiana Vogue living the Philip Johnson Glass House. And she's written for so many publications like Refinery29, Forbes and a whole lot more.
And in this conversation, we talk about sort of her tips for collaborating, whether you are an influencer and you're looking for kind of getting more brand content deals, whether you're a brand that's looking to take on somebody or whether you're just, you know, two small business owners who want to come together and create something really great. And you want to both have a really good experience out of that. So enough for me. I would love to just jump into this interview. Jenny is just so honest and beautifully transparent and real about everything that she's gone through and everything that she's building. And I just feel like you can't help but listen to this and come away from it. Super inspired. I did. And I know that you will as well. So here it is, my interview with the founder of Hello Human Jenny Nguyen.
I'm feeling really optimistic about New York at the moment and life in New York, everyone can get vaccinated that wants to get vaccinated. And yeah, it's kind of this most definitely a really good vibe and good mood in the city at the moment. And work's picking up for everybody as well. And people are getting busy and getting to see each other. So, yeah, things are really good.
Oh, so good to hear. And given that you free of vaccinations and covid and everything, how did covid impact your business and also your life? I know we were talking just before we hit record on some sort of changes that you made, but. Yeah, how did how did kind of twenty 20 impact everything for you. Yeah.
2020. Totally switched my life actually. So I had a baby and she's now to the winning ticket. I think she was something like two months old and running my previous business and all of that went right up and started a new business. Yeah. Which has grown quite quickly at an uncomfortable pace actually. Yeah. It's, it's completely, completely changed my life, actually.
Oh well. And I'm sorry to hear that. But also it sounds like it was an exciting time to start some new stuff as well.
Yeah, well, you know, I think all that that time kind of at the beginning and covid when we were all stuck at home and I didn't really have any worth going on because the projects that I had kind of disappeared and it just gave me time for soul searching. So that was the most valuable time, actually, because I've got to really think about what I really want to be doing, and I kind of had when I was pregnant with my daughter, I had always thought to myself that I wanted a new business idea. I think I wrote it down somewhere. And I guess I manifested it I wrote it down somewhere as a goal that I would come up with a new business idea. And I kind of I think I read like this one article in Design. It was actually interviewing Li Edelkoort,, which is kind of a famous forecaster in the design and fashion world, and she just talked about how it was going to be after covid. It was going to be the age of the amateur and that people would have time to really edit their lives and really think about their overconsumption basically, and think about what the meaning behind life is. And and that was really true for me, actually. So I thought, look, I'm going to start a new business that kind of speaks to the type of people I want to work with and find a mutually viable way to work with. Well, actually work with independent designers who previously couldn't afford my services. And so I kind of had all this time to really build a framework of how to work with these people and have a profitable, well running business as well as I was doing peson projects with clients. So yeah.
Oh, I love that. I feel like it's so strange that it was called 20 20 because it really does fit into like 20/20 vision and a whole lot of horrible things have happened as well. But I feel like a lot of people, even through struggles and challenges, have had a lot of like 2020 vision kind of thinking, what do I want to do? What is my life looking like right now?
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah. So speaking about your career and then the business changed when we first met, and I think it was Lill who had put us in touch. And I was in New York City for the Fast Company's conference in twenty fifteen and we went out for a drink. And you were running Melting Butter at the time. Can you talk us through kind of the career history and including kind of Melting Butter? Because it was a huge, huge platform and then how you came to do Hello Human, which is the new business you've been talking about, that you started as a result of kind of the 2020 pandemic continuing?
I guess my career, I'd always put in creative agencies and advertising agencies when I was full time employed. And so I started it when I was about living in Unsnap, I had like. A blog, and I was always that person that everybody would say, oh, I'm going to Paris this weekend. Do you have any tips on where each and all that sort of thing? And I started just putting these city guides for different cities around Europe that I travelled to so that my friends could easily access my recommendations.
And then I moved to New York and it was just so much to write about. And I love writing. And so I started posting more restaurants that I'd been to. And then, you know, it was kind of at that at that time, blogs were still up and coming and people were consuming a little blog content. And so so, yeah, I basically had more content out in the world and started to get a lot of really good feedback. And then at some point I was like, I think I think maybe I could turn this into a business. And the idea was that I just wanted to work for myself and do what I wanted to do and be paid as a freelancer and be able to sustain myself.
So I quit my job and then I just spent all my time writing content, building a contributor based around the world. And I think at one point there was something like 30 contributors around the world who were providing their tips on the best design led hotspots around the world and curating city guides for us that was Melting Butter. And then at some point I just felt like I was in this hamster wheel of creating content. And I was very adamant that I didn't want to make money through advertising.
And then I started getting a lot of clients through the site as a shop window, basically into other creative services. And then I started to, yeah, take on some really exciting clients and just tried my hand producing. Events and they were influencing events, I guess, and we didn't really it wasn't a thing at the time, and I got to try and produce this event for a tech company and I will digital concierge. And they wanted to get connected with the movers and shakers in the lifestyle and food space. And so we we had this tech company budget, which I didn't realise was a big budget at the time. And I produced this incredible event, which is like New York City Department, that we transformed into this Japanese garden. And then we had the best sushi restaurant doing this on a Thursday lunch for all of these influences. And at the time, I didn't realise that that was PR, I guess. And I just knew that I was inspired by these people, these creatives and photographers and writers. And and then I just called, emailed them and asked them to come to our event.
And we had it was a huge success. And then more projects rolled on from there, ended up working with the Glass House, the Philip Johnson Glass House, which is, I guess, a museum of sorts of design museums, lots of the architect, Philip Johnson. And they every year would have a a big artist of the year doing a big art installation. And the first year I started working with with the glass house was the year that Kusama, the Japanese artist, she did a big installation there. And they said, oh, we would like similar types of people to come to the glass house and experience this exhibition. And we did a an amazing event.
And we have beautiful food that was inspired by the art. And and every year we we did that with the glass house, with the major artists, and we kind of got known, I guess, for Prabal experiences for that. And then. Also worked with Ryuichi Sakamoto as well with Curated, a show for his non-profit, which was a non-profit called Trees, and they worked with designers to create beautiful products out of the wood of trees that would normally be discarded from when they would be cut down on forests and the wood that was, I guess, good enough to go into production for other products.
So, yes, I've worked with them. And and that was really kind of the heyday of Melting Butter, working with amazing independent designers and small design led organisations. And but I guess kind of towards the end, the business model required that we would take on kind of bigger corporate clients as well as the small clients, and then towards the end of it, after maternity leave. And that's the thing. We really only had big corporate clients. And that was kind of, I guess, the turning point when then the pandemic hit and all of those all of those clients, I guess, decided that they didn't have the budget to continue on the projects that we were working on. And all of it disappeared. And it kind of forced me down, down a route to kind of there was nothing to lose. And as I said before, I was kind of inspired by this article by Little Colour.
And I thought and I really believed that after the pandemic and all this time that we had in lockdown, that there would be more creativity in the world that would flourish and people had time to create and that they they would need crucial services. And so to actually launch the work that they were doing and to make a sustainable business or career out of it, so I thought there's definitely a market big enough here. And there isn't really a PR agency that can support people of independent studios that can afford big monthly retainers. So that that kind of inspired me and I thought, well, these are the people I want to work with anyway.
This was kind of what I was doing in the heyday of Melting Butter, working with independent artists and designers. And so now I just need to create a framework that allows me to run a business of it and for it to be mutually viable. And not just me, you know, doing a favour for design studio that I admire. So, yeah, I kind of like sat down and really thought about like I took one one service and I thought PR was a really crucial service specifically for small design studios. And I sat down and I broke it apart. I thought, what is and what is the whole process of PR? And I had had experience with freelancing for some PR agencies as well and freelance with some PR agencies. And I also did my own PR projects for independent design studios directly. And so I knew if I saw PR from different angles. I'm also a writer and have written to some major design publications around the world.
And so I see it from the editor writer point of view. I also see it from, I guess, the design PR agency point of view as well. And how how it kind of how people get some on the back end. And so I really break down the process of PR and I realised that so much of PR is handholding, handholding for a client and also, you know, doing a lot of. Kind of essentially low value tasks that get taxed at a high rate because it is a rate that you get charged. It's all based on time and time and materials. And there are tasks in PR consultancy that are things like wrangling a client's files into a Prescot wrangling hybrid's. This is labourer's images and things like that, which I thought, you know, if I could rewrite the process of PR and make a lot more collaborative and put the onus on the client to come prepared, then maybe I could. Do this at a reasonable price for independent design studios. Yes, then I basically I tested it out and we realised that, yeah, we could all of a sudden provide this if all of a sudden cut down the amount of time that it takes to execute a PR campaign and we could charge accordingly and then started talking to a lot more PR people that I knew from around the world, just having worked with them on the editorial side and also just through the design community.
And I realised that there were so many, like little coatless talking about designers going out on their own and creatives going out on their own to create a lot of PR people who had left big agencies and corporate employees. And they they wanted to find more meaningful ways to work with smaller clients. And for an independent PR professional, that's kind of their biggest pain point, is trying to find to hustle new clients. And I thought, well, there's enough work here for everybody. And so so, yeah. So I started to build a collective of PR like the best PR people, people that I already worked with previously on the editorial side and, you know, people who were just known to be excellent PR people in the industry. And then I just knocked on the doors of top editors that I've worked with and have good relationships with and said, who are your favourite PR people?
And that's how I built the collective of really fabulous PR people who work on client projects. So I think there are something like 20, 20 something PR consultants around the world now. Yeah, they're based in creative markets who live in the world, like New York, L.A., Seattle, in Milan, Amsterdam, London, Japan, Australia. And the purpose of that was because I wanted to give well to things. I wanted to give clients access to the world without costing me so they could buy individual PR packages and in markets of interest for their business and work with someone that was local, with local contacts and then and always working within the healthy human method. And then, yeah, I also wanted to to design my own life as well as I've lived all over the world. And I think I will continue to continue living around the world. And I didn't want to pigeon hole myself geographically to any particular place. I wanted to be able to work from anywhere in the world and work with people all over the world and always have an international perspective in whatever I do.
Wow. I love it. I love that story. I'm just like, baby over here. I love that you took something that could have really derailed you in terms of, oh, my gosh, I've spent years building up melting. But it's got to a point where now we've got all these people contacting us and doing these great things and oh my God, the pandemic. And you could have gone, you know, stuff it. I'll just go and work for somebody else. Like this is all too hard, especially with a new baby. And I get you because our children are very close in age and I love that instead of like, what do I want to do and what does that look like? And then how can actually make it work and viable that it tested the market? And gosh, there's just so many lessons in that. And so we're going to stop the podcast right now and be like, oh, I got so much out of that.
So thank you so much for sharing all of that. And I just think it's amazing. And of course, we'll link to Hello Human on Instagram and the website in the show. It's but you did touch on the fact that you've worked and lived in lots of places, including Amsterdam and London, New York, and you're originally from Adelaide, but you've lived in Sydney and Melbourne as well. Have you got any tips for people? I know I'm working with a few clients at the moment. One who wants to move from Melbourne to L.A. Another one wants to move from Perth to Melbourne. Another one wants to move to London. Another one just has moved to London. And so I think sometimes with this pandemic, it's like sometimes people think, oh, that's just not a possibility anymore. But it is. And do you have tips for people who are thinking, well, I'd like to move somewhere else, but I don't even know where I'd start to think about it or like tips for actually leaving me?
So, yeah, well, I think you should you should have a before you move somewhere, you should have an affinity with the place you're moving to. I think a lot of people have moved places sight unseen, but maybe I'm not as adventurous, but I would definitely already have an affinity with that city. And I think when you visit, it should inspire you and the energy should stand out as a place that you kind of want to be around. And it always helps when you know somebody as well. You don't need to know a lot of people. But I feel like if you have a connection in some way, shape or form or even a connection to a connection, that's a really good way to start because it's really connections of everything. Actually, if I were to move now to a place I hadn't lived before, I would reach out to my network now and find out who knows who in that in that city.
And I would actually set up zoom calls because that's what the pandemic's done for us now. It's kind of made making international connections just like a simple thing. I mean, I built I built a human with consultants all over the world and clients all over the world as well, because it's normalised now to to just. Email someone and say, hey, can we have a chat so I can tell you about this and hear more about your story and and people are really willing to connect, I think, especially if those common interests. So I would probably reach out to whoever, you know, get connected with people and and start building relationships right away, because that's that's going to make it easier to settle when, you know, someone is a familiar face.
Yeah. I mean, even when I went to New York and that was only for I mean, I've been to New York a few times, but when I went to that conference and yeah, it was exactly that like I just asked a couple of friends who's really interested in New York. And one of them said, Jenny is like, we have been in touch ever since. Things, you know. Yeah, everyone's up for a zoom. It's funny, actually, at the moment, I feel like people have gotten in touch outside of work. Stuff just like this, like contact of contact are all saying, can we have a zoom call? And because I spend my whole life on Zoom because that's what I was doing for the pandemic and what I will continue to do, I actually really enjoy just a phone call, not having to get onto the computer, but I go and it's really nice to see people on video as well, like we've all gotten so comfortable with. Yeah, here I am in my lounge room and I'm having a professional call.
It's funny because I think at the beginning of the pandemic, the office had to ask permission to have a vehicle and call out the fact that, oh, can we have a video chat? I think now I use this. I think you use it to Kellingley. Yeah. To schedule any meetings and it automatically throws in a Google Maeterlinck a video chat link. And it's just normal now to to just jump on a video call. So I think everybody's camera ready these days.
Yes, they are.
And they'll either say to you, oh, can we just have a like a voice call? Or if they really don't want to. The expectation, I think, is that every call is going to be a a video chat.
Yeah, I love that. I love that, too. And so you have a very adventurous spirit like you just from talking to and from meeting you before. And even the fact that you've gone to different places and different places and even the whole idea of what you've just done through the pandemic of making this new business with your upbringing surrounded by people like that, like your parents, very into trying new things, or are they small business owners or were they really into travel and design? And like, where has that energy of. Yep, I'm just going to I'm just going to go for it. Where has that kind of come from, do you think?
Probably my mom I grew up with a single mom and I don't really know my dad. I only met him later in life. But that's a whole other story. But yeah, my mom is extremely special in the sense that she's she's a refugee from she escaped the Vietnam War when she was I think she was like seventeen or eighteen years old alone. And she left to start a new life for herself in Australia. And then that my dad had my brother and I and then he left. And so she was a single mother and she had no education. She was was and is still illiterate. And she I think when I was before, I remember I guess in my early years, she was working in a factory, a chicken factory, and then she was also moonlighting as a waitress to try and make ends meet. And yeah, she she started a business out of necessity because I remember she was this is getting really deep. I remember one of my earliest memories was when she was taking she was driving my brother and I and some family friends to the playground. And then we got pulled over by the police and she got a speeding ticket. Then we got to the playground and everyone was playing. And then I remember seeing her sitting under the tree crying.
And I was kind of like, Why are you crying, Mum? And I think I would have been like four years old or something or maybe even listened. And she said, Oh, it's because I can't afford to pay this speeding ticket. I think she dropped us back to her friend's place and dropped the kids back. And then I remember her saying to her friends that if I was a driving instructor and if I had the driving instructor sign on my car, they wouldn't pull me over.
Well, maybe I should be a driving instructor. And she became and then she just started a business and she became driving instructor. Yeah, she's a driving instructor.
She was a driving instructor for and she was the first one for the Vietnamese community. So I'm Vietnamese. And there was a lot of there were a lot of people from Vietnam migrating to the US and they couldn't speak English and they needed to have. The first thing you need to do when you arrive is to get a driver's licence. And so she became a very well known and respected figure in the Vietnamese community. And she was very proud of her business and her work and the important role that she played in the community. She's still a driving instructor and she still has her own business and the other thing that she realised was, you know, having a business kind of helps you set your own hours and you are in control of your time. And she was a single mother of two. She needed a job that was that provided her flexibility to be there for us when she needed, like I'd call her from anywhere from any payphone and say, Mom, I'm here, come pick me up. And then she would come and pick me up and she'd have a student in driving the car and my student would drive me home and she was able to kind of like text around the city and still be working. So. So that was the other reason why she started this business.
Oh, my God. Also, I think I get it from her. She doesn't I mean, obviously, she travelled from Vietnam to Australia. I mean, she you know, we didn't have a lot of money growing up, so we never travelled. Yeah. I didn't travel until I was in university. And then I just kind of wanted all I wanted to do was travel. So that's where that comes from.
Wow. She sounds remarkable. And thank you for sharing that. And did she teach you how to drive?
Yes, she did. I'm an excellent driver, although I don't drive on this side of the world because I can't my brain can't figure out on the other side. So I but I when I do drive in in Adelaide, I always think, oh, I'm a good driver.
Oh, well. And I love that. You know, even when you talk to I can see the parallels between you fighting the pandemic and having this horrible thing happen and then finding some meaning and good out of it. And then your mum in the same way, like getting that parking ticket and then being able to make it. That's really smart.
Oh my gosh, that's incredible. That's amazing. And so talking of amazing and finding solutions like you, you've mentioned a few of them, like with the Glasshouse and and other brands. And obviously doing what you do now with fellow human, you collaborate with a lot of different businesses and artists and other people. And, you know, with Melting Butter, you had all sorts of different collaborations. And so can you talk us through the process that you go through, even, I guess, some tips to get the most out of a collaboration or even decide if maybe partnering with that person or that brand is a good idea? Like, how do you kind of assess that?
I think there has to be first and foremost, there has to be shared values between two collaborators, has to be like a mutual respect and admiration for each other. What was the other questions then?
Oh, just like how do you decide? I mean, obviously, if your values and in this respect there are there any other kind of tips for actually collaborating? Like do you look at I don't know if it's going to be a win win situation or if they're going to do it. Like how do you kind of divide up tasks or even things like that, any kind of tip?
So, yeah, before I would say any collaboration, I would make sure that we're on the same page. So that's actually just going through and figuring out what the scope on each side is and who's doing what and being. It's kind of a boring process at the beginning, to be honest, because you have to go through that dry figuring out who does what in the creative collaboration. And so everyone comes to the table prepared and knowing exactly what they're responsible for. So, yeah, that's documentation at the beginning, I think is definitely going to put you on the right track.
Yeah, I totally agree with that. And I love how you say it. So I simply like documentation. But the amount of people that don't do that, I feel like people get really excited about the end result. And then the actual journey there is not documented. There's all always like, oh, you didn't do your part or I was holding it all up. And that kind of like resentment can build sometimes. Yeah, for sure. And so you're also, in addition to that collaboration, you are in one of the most competitive cities in the world for all sorts of creative and service based businesses. How do you deal with competition? I mean, maybe maybe you don't have it because you've gone out and looked for basically your competitors to come in and create a collective fellow human. But have you ever sort of dealt with competition? And if you have, have you got any tips for people listening who might be dealing with it or thinking, oh my God, this too many people in my space, I can't do something different?
Well, actually, I'm not the I'm not the only PR agency or service for independent designers in New York that launched in the pandemic. So it sounds like it could be a unique thing, but it's not unique. And actually, I launched Hellier Human as a business at the same time that a competitor name is Wolf Kraft. We were both part of a networking group in the design industry and in the US. It's called the Female Design Council. And we launched our businesses at the exact same time. This slightly different, of course, and you know, that kind of more focussed on education and online courses and things like that for independent creatives. But it's also passive. Essentially, we launched our businesses at the same time and I'm a wolf, and she was a publicist in the industry and been connected with her at events. I mean, I think once before and we follow each other on Instagram, I thought, well, I'm just going to get in contact with her and just chat it out because we're doing the exact same thing pretty much. And we actually have a standing monthly call where we just talk about what's going on and what we're doing with our businesses and which is essentially it's a competitor, but it's a different approach as well. So it's not the same thing that we're offering.
And we have slightly different types of designers that we work with as well, because there's a full spectrum of everything and there's enough room for everybody. And there are so many independent creatives and designers around the world. There's more than I could ever deal with in terms of clients. So there's room for everybody. I see them as friendly competitors and we're really open with each other and the other competitors, I guess the PR agencies like traditional PR agencies. But I also don't really see them as competitors because they service a different type of client who can afford a large monthly retainer for six months and or more. And yeah, we're going after a very different market. Yeah. The other competitors, as you say, are independent consultants, but we were in some ways of service to independent consultants, so maybe there aren't too many competitors.
You're totally playing in Blue Ocean. Yeah, I love that idea of like calling them up and good on you for having the courage to do that because some people don't. And I get this the same. Like I actually coach business coaches who work with pretty much the same clients. I'm some of them. And people say, oh my God, how are you coaching them? They're just going to steal your IP. And I'm like, Yeah, but they've got different. Like, they're different to me. Like they will bring something different. And if that person needs that, then they'll be a better fit. And if I'm the right person, that person will find me so. For sure.
And there's also, you know, there are things, but obviously a proprietary information processes and things like that, the way that you do things and you should always protect your IP, keep those important things to yourself and to the direct team, and protect yourself with India or whatever, whatever it is that you need to. But yeah, because everything else is fair game and there's a lot of customers out there.
Yeah. There's so much that there is so much and so many people starting businesses with so many people needing help. And so talking of IP and India and all of that, what have you had to like, learn or put time into? Obviously you've done a lot of time, intellect, learning all sorts of PR and different things that you do and how to let experience. But have you had to like up level with other courses or lack understanding legal stuff, or is it anything that you've had to really, really work to get better at?
Yeah, definitely. I would say finances because Melting Butter was essentially I said before that it was like I set out to be able to do creative work and be able to support myself. And and I didn't I didn't set up Melting Butter as a business that could scale. I essentially created a job for myself, you know, I had a good income and all of that sort of thing. And, you know, I didn't really understand the finances behind it. Aside from this is how much I'm charging and I'm sending an invoice. And then I use cookbooks to categorise everything. And that was kind of the extent of it. And I kind of made financial decisions on a whim, I guess, back then. And I would tell a human eye, I knew that I had to build a business that could scale and one that could run without me. And I had to get a better handle of the financial side of it and how I was making management accounting decisions. I hadn't had any experience doing that before, I guess. And so I hired a financial consultant. And she has been amazing. Her name is Elli Papadopoulos of Skopos Consulting (Skopos Collective).
Yes, good. If you are interested, though. We'll put that into the shownotes.
Yes, she's been amazing. She is kind of helped me to poke holes in the business model and make me realise what's really what's really you know, it's funny. Like, we had one service that we thought I thought was, oh, this is going to be the cash cow. Everyone's going to do this. And it's just going to it's going to be like passive income, pretty much passive income. And it actually, you know, when you run the numbers, it becomes clear that actually that wasn't what I thought it was going to be. And actually, it takes a lot of internal work to deliver that particular service. And yeah. So I you know, being able to kind of understand the numbers behind the business is very empowering. That's something I really had to get my head around and I still am getting my head around it. I work with Ali every week. I see helps me. She helps me understand it all. And she's worth her weight in gold.
Oh, I completely agree. I always say to people, get an amazing accountant from day one and also talk to them monthly. Like, do not believe. It's like, oh, I just talked to them at tax time. Like, get someone who's going to give you that level of service or like you say, hire somebody that you can talk to even more regularly because the money is like, you know, that's why we are a huge part of why we're in business. Like we can be in business and have like, this passion and purpose and everything. But if there's no profit, it can be really hard. And you just an uphill battle.
Exactly.
Oh, really? And then what about, like tech tools? Have you there any kind of you mentioned Calanda before. Do you have any other kind of tech platforms that you just cannot live without?
Yeah. Running a business today, there's so many tools that you can kind of implement to make your life easier and to actually save a lot of time, which ends up saving a lot of money. I use Kellingley to do the scheduling I use like a scheduling tool for Instagram. Well, it's like Facebook create a studio because it's free. I use Asana to do all of the project management and just have a bird's eye view of what's going on in the business at any given time. The Google Suite. Yeah, Google Docs, Google Sheets, Google slides, all of those. That's the real game changer in terms of collaboration. And we have a small internal team, Maggie, who runs the new business and brand side of the business, and then Noby, who is sales and marketing assistant. We collaborate together on these documents and kind of just being able to kind of make comments and things like that. It's just been a game changer for previously. When you use, I guess, Microsoft Word.
Yes, I took a long time to collaborate. Yeah. It's so good for the team.
Yeah, I love Google Drive, we have so like everyone in my business is on Google Drive and it's just like it's amazing as well because not that I'd ever want this to happen, but you always think, oh, if I lost my laptop or if I did anything, it's like everything's in the cloud. It's OK. It's all there.
Yeah, all that. Google has all our information. But, yeah, it's kind of a necessary evil, unfortunately. But yeah. The other thing I use is that it's for sending quotes and getting contracts signed and it just streamlines that process so much and just having templates and just being able to quote with a link and have all the contracts signed once the quotes accepted as well, which is amazing.
Oh, that sounds great. And look up and then I guess you've been in business in some format for so long, like with Melting Butter and thinness, acumen and other things you've worked on. If someone is starting a business now and they're listening to this and at the very early stages. Is there anything from either of your businesses that you'd suggest that they do?
Yeah, write it all down. Basically write every thought down. Also read probably answers another question later down the track, but read the emails. I'm sure you've read it. But I think, like the opportunity of starting a new business is it's an amazing opportunity to start things from scratch and start things properly. If it's a business that you see scaling and lasting five to ten years or longer, it can inspire you to create the right foundation for a business that runs smoothly without you having to. Do everything on your own.
Yup, and then further to that, I guess you mentioned that that book that Amy and we'll link to that in the show, is there any other books or mantras or courses or mentors or anything that's really helped you with your businesses?
Yes, obviously, the image has been a huge. It was revolutionary for me in terms of setting up a business. I consume so many podcasts because it's the way that I. Yeah, can multitask and doing dishes and things like that, and I listen to a lot of business podcasts, I guess, and this one being one of them, so really excited to be on it. Yeah, there's a multitude of business podcasts out there, like I'm not really sure if they're updating so many of them right now. Lately, they've come out with anyone but Kurya, the magazine out of the U.K. They have a really good podcast. And you can kind of look at old old episodes, which is still very relevant. It's called the Career Workshop. And also Career Weekly is inspiring because they talk to kind of modern modern entrepreneurs and how they started their businesses and things like that. I'm not sure if they're still updating, but there's an archive of really great episodes. It's called Business School.
And that's two guys who talk to a lot of kind of Start-Up founders. And it's very kind of like consumer direct to consumer type of start-ups. And they talk about everything from getting funding to to marketing PR. And, you know, basically it's like business school, but for businesses that are designed to scale. So, yeah, listen to that. And there's just so many to mention the podcasts. A huge resource for me.
Yeah. There's such a good I mean, obviously I run when I think it's great, but I run one because I've listened to so many and they're just awesome and you can just finish them and on the commute and you can learn so much by the end of the time you reach your destination. And so what are you most proud of, do you think, from your journey in business so far?
I'm most proud of the relationships that I've made on all sides. Yeah, I've made some really close friends through business, actually. And, you know, it's funny when you're employed by a corporate employer or whatever you think, oh, my work friends. And they're always kind of your work friends. But actually these friends that I've made through my business and through previous businesses, you know, they're like lifelong connexions that are truly friends, designers, but also journalists and editors that I've made really good friends with and have my life forever. Yeah, because that's I guess that's the most rewarding thing about business, is getting to know people and making fast friends and meeting someone and knowing immediately they're kindred spirit. And that's what life's about relationships.
It is. It's a beautiful place. And thank you so, so much for making the time and staying out of it later to do this podcast. I really, really appreciate it. So when people are listening to this and they're like, oh, my gosh, she sounds amazing, I need to get in touch with her, what is the best kind of way for them to connect with you? And also, is there anything coming up that people should be aware of from a human or anything else you're doing?
Yes, they connect with me. Best would be on the website. It's given us the Instagram is also a human told us. What have we got coming up? We're doing a lot of digital activism. We have a fundraiser coming up that we're participating in. It's called Joy Not Tight. I care very deeply about racial equality and representation of bespoke creatives, and it's making sure that they kind of get the attention that they deserve. And so, yeah, so it was kind of coming up with new initiatives to to support designers that people of colour and and. Yeah, so that's so that's coming up. I'm also working with to a fellow humans founding clients, ladies and gentlemen, Studio Intented. And we are working on a programme where we're kind of getting we're setting up studio visits of people of colour who are who are successful in the design industry and having middle school aged kids come and visit and see what it's actually like to be a working, successful designer and creative, because in the end, what you can see, you can be. And so so, yes, we're working on that as well. It's called Design for Connexion, which will hopefully launch sometime this year or early next year.
Oh, well, that is amazing. And we'll link to that in the show notes and everything else that you're doing. But it's been an absolute pleasure connecting with you again. And thank you so much for everything that you've shared today. It's been so beautiful and also really helpful for people listening and myself as well. Thank you.
Thanks. To catch up after so many years. Yes. All right. Bye. All right. Bye.
Oh, my goodness. How can you listen to that and not be so impressed and so inspired?
I know Jenny, but I and I've seen sort of what she was doing. But hearing from her, exactly how she built Hello Human and why she's built it and just having that really strong purpose behind it and also her ability to go, you know what, I'm in a challenging situation and I could just sit here and think, woe is me and look at everything that is going wrong right now. Or I could take all the skills that I have, all the connections and really build something that's not just going to sustain Jenny and the other people working there, but also be such a massive kind of beacon for all these people that potentially may have thought that PR is just way outside of their financial realm. And I know for a lot of creative small businesses, it is when we look at our finances, our budget, it seems that we'd love to do some things like PR, but they just seem scary or way outside of what we think that we can afford.
So, I think, you know, what she's doing is absolutely fantastic. And of course, the story behind it and I can see so clearly the story of her mother and the whole idea of becoming a driving instructor. It's just creating something, creating a solution where other people would never see anything but problems. And I think what a brilliant thing to have passed on to her daughter. So I hope her mom is listening to this, too. What an incredible woman she sounds like. I would love to know from you what really stood out, and I'm sure that Jenny would, too.
So don't be a stranger. As she said, you can find them at hellohuman.us or you can find them on Instagram at @hellohuman.us. And of course, we'll link to that in the show notes. But what really stood out for you? What did you take away most from this conversation with Jenny Nguyen of Hello Human.
For me, two things really stood out, one of which I've kind of touched on, which is really the ability to create something out of a crappy situation. And I know that many of us have been in that crappy situations and you can get really bogged down in the past in really focusing on, “Oh, if I'd done that differently” or dwelling on all the things you hadn't done up until that point or the external factors that you can't control, as you know the pandemic's here, or why did this happen to my business and all of those things? And, of course, definitely take some time to do that. But what happens is that some people then just wallow in that rather than looking at what's an opportunity, what's the first step forward, what's something I could build right now, what's something that would keep me engaged and goes back to the values that I want to live my life by.
And it is really clear that that's how Jenny operates more in that latter camp of what can I create? What is the opportunity here? How can I keep going? How can I put one step in front of another and just keep going? And that's exactly what she's done and what a fantastic business to have built out of it. Hello Human.
The second thing that really stood out to me was the idea of coming back to values-based messaging and values-based collaborations and really leading from point of what are the values that underpin my brand, who do I want to work with, what sort of work do I want to do? How could I kind of innovate or tweak things that are existing in the market to fit my brand and my values?
So in terms of understanding the vehicle and being in that industry for quite some time, but seeing also the gaps and seeing the people on one side that really need this but couldn't afford the big agency retainers and then seeing her own skill set and everything that she had learnt in her career to date through advertising, marketing, brand and PR and pulling those things together and having the courage to create something in a place where, like she said, she's not the only one, but it's still a a new kind of innovative market. So that really stood out to me, just that courage of doing things a little bit differently, going off the beaten path and thinking we don't have to do it that way. What if the client got all the stuff ready? What if the client did X, Y and Z? And so therefore we're not charging them for that part of the journey. And I think that is just a brilliant way to to approach everything in life. You know, what is possible rather than saying that just won't work. It won't work, rather looking at it in the way that Jenny did, which is what could work.
And I often say to people, you know, take off the chaos cap and put on your curiosity cap. And I think that's the thing that she's got in spades, just that curiosity of obviously from what she's built before, curiosity of people and why they do what they do of art, of sculpture, of travel, of food. And that curiosity then in business has allowed her to kind of flourish in a space where it would be so easy to kind of turn inward and not flourish for want of a better word. Yeah, those two things really stood out, as did so many other gems and nuggets of wisdom that she shared in that.
Of course, I would love it. If you could yeah, go over and let Jenny know how you felt and as I said before, the best place might be Instagram, if you're on that channel already, it's hellohuman.us or you can find them online – hellohuman.us and we'll link to that in the show notes you will be able to find a full transcript in the show, notes and links to everything that Jenny mentioned, including some of those cool tools over at mydailybusinesscoach.com/podcast/110, so that is it for today's episode.
If you found this useful, I would love it if you could share it with a friend, share it on social media, and if you have time, even a few seconds to hit the stars and leave a review, it just makes it so much easier for other people to find us. Thank you so much for listening and I'll see you next time. Bye.
Thanks for listening to My Daily Business Coach podcast. If you want to get in touch, you can do that at mydailybusinesscoach.com or hit me up on Instagram at @mydailybusinesscoach.
