Episode 114: Unconventional paths and how to start a side-hustle: An Interview with StartUp Creative's Kaylene Langford
Topics discussed in this episode:
Introduction
Catching Up
Covid’s impact on Kaylene
Her business journey
Upbringing
Her mindset when she start her business
Getting the book done
The hardest part of the book preparation
Kaylene’s challenges along the way
Key takeaways from How To Start A Side Hustle
Finding support
What helped Kaylene? Recommendations
Her most proud moment
Connect with Kaylene
Conclusion
Connect with StartUp Creative
Episode transcript:
The pain of not trying, like if you've got that idea in your head and you keep trying to suppress it, that is going to be so painful in your body. You can't, it's like cutting off your own arm and pretending it didn't happen. You know, it's like it's not going to go away any way. You can try and silence it. But, you know, there's a lot of beautiful poetry and words around. If it's alive in you and you've got this idea and this passion, then chances are it's part of your story and it's what you're meant to be doing on this planet.
Hello and welcome to Episode 114 of the My Daily Business Coach podcast. As always, I'm recording this in my little office back in Warrandyte. And I want to acknowledge that the traditional owners of this land that were Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation and I pay my respects to their elders’ past, present and emerging, as well as just remind you guys, anyone who's listening with your First Nations, non-First Nations, do whatever you can to learn more about the real history in Australia and look at small ways that your business might be able to help in terms of financial help, in terms of exposure, in terms of just generally having hard conversations that need to be had so that we can really work towards healing and equality for everyone in this country.
All right. So today's episode is an interview episode, and I'm quite excited about this because it's a little different to most of the people that I bring onto the podcast. So today I'm talking to Kaylene Langford, who surprise, surprise, is also a business coach. And lots of people could imagine that Kaylene and myself are actually competitors. We both work with a lot of creative small businesses. We work with people who are just starting at the start of their business journey, coming up with ideas, validating these, looking at how they're going to market themselves. And I love, though, that we really have become collaborators rather than competitors. And I think there's a lesson in that for everyone listening. And it's something that I touch on in my chat today with Kaylene.
But I wanted to bring Kaylene on because she's just put out a new book. And if you're listening to this in real time, it's literally this week. So congratulations, Kaylene, if you're listening. But it's a new book out through Hardie Grant, and it is called How to Start a Side Hustle.
And it's a beautifully designed book. It's very cool. It's a very Instagrammable. But the content inside is also awesome. And if you are starting a business, if you're looking for a gift for somebody who's starting a business or a side hustle side project, whatever you want to call it, it has so many practical tips in there. It's one of those books that you can just open at any page, really, and learn something. And there's lots of, you know, tables and activities and kind of things to workshop yourself or someone else. You might decide that, you know, both of you are going to get the book and you'll work through it together because you've got this sort of idea for side businesses for yourself. I know that during Covid a lot of people. I hate using the word, but a lot of people, let's say, shifted rather than P word. But a lot of people shifted their ideas of what's possible. And I saw a lot of friends who work in employed roles. They saw that a lot of people resigned. A lot of people kind of took stock of what's important to them and thought, you know what, life is short. And if I want to start this thing, I better kind of get a move on. So whether you are thinking to, you know, just go to a nine day fortnight and have one day to work on your side project, whether you are thinking to completely go all kind of quit and and use your savings and and work on it, there will be so many great tips and activities that you can work through in this book.
So, I loved talking to Kaylene. Now, Kaylene, like I said before, is a business coach and Kaylene predominantly works with people that are in the kind of startup phase and her business is actually called StartUp Creative. And you may have heard of them. You might be following StartUp Creative on Instagram, but really they help people validate their ideas, come up with how are you going to market it? Who are you? How are you involved in the marketing? How are you involved in your brand? They look at everything from like your values through to leveraging other people's platforms. How do you get your name out there? And I love that.
In our chat today, Kaylene talks about how she started and how it was a slightly unconventional I think that's the word she used way of starting as a business coach. And I think what she talks about is really inspiring because I'm sure there are people out there thinking, oh, I can't get into, you know, X or Y because of this sort of background or I needed to have this or that. And in our conversation, we talk about her fears. But I also, you know, get vulnerable and talk about my own fears, especially for both of us bringing out a book. When you bring out a book, it is printed. You cannot change things once it's out. And that's both a good and a bad thing. It's like once it goes to the printer, you know, you can't think about things. You've just got to go, OK, if there are mistakes in it, if there's something I would change later. I've just got to live with that. And it's kind of like a printed moment of your education of what's important to you at that point. But we're so used to, I think, living in an online world where everything can be altered and changed. And I think putting out a book is a really brave thing, particularly in business, because as we talk about in this conversation, you will be judged on it. Somebody somewhere is going to tell you all the things you don't want to hear and.
Of course, people are going to tell you the great things as well, and I really congratulate Kay on putting out a book, I know firsthand how hard and scary that can be. But I also know how helpful my book has been. And I know I just know looking at this book and reading through it, how helpful this book will be to so many small business owners and people who are yet to become small business owners. So here it is, my interview with the amazing founder of StartUp Creative, Kaylene Langford
Welcome to the podcast, OK? I'm really excited about chatting to you today.
Thank you so much for having me. And it's nice to be here.
Oh, you're so welcome. And it's kind of nerve wracking talking to another podcast host, because I'm sort of like, oh, she's going to judge me for my questions.
No, not at all. I'm nervous speaking to another author.
Well, guess I'm really excited to talk about your book in a second, but I'd love to know you were going to be in lockdown. Like, I thought I was going to be talking to you in lockdown. But you've kind of you snuck into Melbourne before?
I have. Well, I did a legitimate border crossing.
[inaudible]
So funny. Yeah, I was just saying off air I used to live in Melbourne before Covid. I lived here for a couple of years and when it happened I went up to Byron to write my book and be with my partner at the Times family. And when our relationship ended at the end of last year, I went to Sydney because Melbourne was locked down still and and then had spent about six months there and just missed Melbourne too much and felt more like home every time I visited. So I just recently made the move. And it just so happens that the day before I was due to fly out of Sydney and relocate to Melbourne, Sydney got listed as a red zone, which meant that I had to come straight home and quarantine for 14 days. I'm so here I am.
Oh gosh.
Everything to do with Melbourne and Covid has to be slightly off. So sorry that your return to Melbourne hasn't been so smooth.
But no, it's it's been good for me. I think it's the lead up to the book, which I'm sure we'll talk about. I've felt so manic and busy. So I think it's a blessing in disguise to stay inside and not socialise and try and get some more sleep.
Yes. And so talking about Covid, how did kind of 2020 impact your life and your business? I guess it's still impacting it. What changed for you, if anything?
Yeah, I mean, you're probably similar to me in a way that we had an online presence, so like the podcasts and social media mailing list and I started that years ago, you know, in 2014 with StartUp Creative, I was learning a lot about diversifying your income and digital marketing and passive income. So it's always been built into my business and I've always been conscious about building a mailing list and things like that. And I was running a lot of things online around the world. So when covid here, there was a few big contracts to do speaking gigs and was meant to facilitate this innovation festival for the Hume City Council. And we'd done all of these lead up workshops in preparation for sign ups and all this stuff. And that got cancelled, which meant a bunch of income got put on pause for 12 months. And I had a moment of being like like, well, you know, this is going to great. But I'd also just signed my book deal. So I knew that I had to put my head down and write a book as well. So I also have a lot of coaching clients that were a very digital products anyway. But I was starting to really see and hear the anxiety in my clients and our social media community and everyone freaking out and panicking and trying to pivot and endlessly trying to kind of sell things. And I just had this moment of being like, OK, now's the time to just stay calm and be a leader in this space because people are freaking out and they need somebody to help give them skills and keep them grounded and see clearly. So I kind of took that approach of being like, I'm just going to show up with support. And a lot of people asked me to do free webinars and Zune calls and trainings and stuff. So I just threw myself into being of service and helping people in a time of crisis. And funnily enough, I ended up being really busy and getting lots of coaching clients from people who had lost their jobs or had more time to work on a side hustle or yeah, we're getting government income so that they could they could not have to work and things like that. So, yeah, long story short, it was chaotic and wild, but I feel like I just went into the being of service, which I think you probably saw. The same actually attracts people more effortlessly, I think.
Yeah, totally. And I think we have a very similar approach in that, you know, it's about helping people. As cheesy as that sounds, I don't think either of us are in that whole, like, 10x your business overnight. Kind of we just go to space. So, yeah, I was totally with you on the whole chaos, kind of chaos, but then curiosity as well. Like, what could I do right now? How could I help people right now? I feel like that's sort of what you were saying.
That's it. And I think that when you show up and it's like you can tell it, you know, from sales and marketing is when somebody shows up out of scarcity and fear and lack, then it doesn't matter what they say or what they're putting out. You'll feel that. Whereas if somebody shows up and says, hey, I'm here to help, you know, I think you're of if we do the video together for the recent Melbourne lockdown of being like when you show up to be like, hey, we've got all of these tools and resources and we only charge money for them. But it's nothing out of my back pocket to host this webinar and to help you, because that means you can action it and help yourself. And I think that's good karma. And it goes around and people see that as a quality that they want to be a part of. And, you know, whether they end up buying or they just stick around the community and share what you're doing to other people, then, yeah, it comes back and yours turns into a blessing, I think.
Yeah, totally. And so speaking of business coaching, you are a business coach and you have StartUp Creative. And I'm sure a lot of people listening to this know about your business. I know that some of them listening to it came to this podcast because I was on your podcast. So thank you for that. You coach, you have the magazine, you have a podcast, and now you're an author and, you know, online programs and stuff. But how did that all happen for you? Like, what was your own business journey and how did it start? How did you get into this field?
Yeah, it's a bit unconventional, which used to make me a bit insecure. But I've over the years and things were working. I'm like, oh yeah, that's a cool story. But so when I was around twenty three, I think I always worked in like Youthwork. So writing programs for kids at risk writing programs for. Engagement for homeless shelters and things like that and was really good at it, but some awards and worked my way up into advising government on best practises of youth services and really thought that I was going into that space to make real change, lasting change in that space on behalf of young people who needed the support. And it was just red tape, slow moving, hard work. And I was commuting to work and my health and well-being and my outlook on life just started deteriorating really quickly. And it wasn't what I thought it would be.
So I end up having this health scare where people really heard this story before. But I was waking up with really bad headaches and I went to the doctor. The doctor was like, we need to get you for brain scans that like, can you go this afternoon? And I was like, yeah. And I think the way that she delivered the information and then just put the urgency on it made me it kind of shook me in a way of being like what? Like I'm just having bad headaches. And so I went for the scan, was just really emotional about it and just questioning a lot of things. I got the results back the next day and the doctor was like, you're fine. But you know something? The quality of life. So I was like, so she was just enough to jump start questioning of what am I doing? Like, this is one life that I have. There's five days in the week that I'm hating my life and then to say one and a half days, because by Sunday afternoon, you're kind of dreading Monday, right? The Sunday blues. So it just looked out of proportion to me. And it just this thing came over me where I was like, I can't do this. I can't live like this. What would I do differently? And I think my partner and I at the time, we were going through a bit of a funk as a couple, and she had been to personal development courses. And I think she was like, we need to go to this course and just snap us out of it, like we're like spiralling. So we went to this weekend course and it was very like Tony Robbins, you know, like your life. And but it was so corny. But it was also full of just truth that I needed to hear at that time in my life, which was pretty much the core belief of your life as a result of you. And no one's coming to save you. Don't be a victim to your circumstances, like actively create the life that you want and you just intentionally set out to create something.
Then you're more likely to get it rather than sitting around kind of being washed up and popping whatever gets thrown at me. And then I go, you know, just life. So I had this shift in in my mindset to be like, all right, if this life has to get better and something's going to change, I have to be the one to do something about it. And I just started studying entrepreneurship and start-ups and reading books and going to courses and speaking to mentors. And just every spare second I could I was helping people, was my partner at the time, was starting a business. We were like, let's start your business. And we were just as I was learning, I was actioning it and I was getting results in my business and my partners. And then eventually people started asking me for advice and started out with in-person workshops and then eventually moving to online digital products and coaching. And yeah, it's been many things…
Amazing. I do feel like the universe, whatever you want to say it, I do feel like it kind of. I think it's like Oprah says, it's like it's a whisper and then it's allowed and then it's a yell. And then it is like, you know, you're having to go and get a brain scan. Like, I feel like the universe tries to give you so many, hey, you could switch parts, you could switch parts. And then it's like still something huge happens and you are like going to burn out. Then you realise, oh, I could switch fast.
Yeah, I have done. I can say that to client's now when if someone I don't know you get this, but they send an email and they're like, oh I've really, I've got this idea, I really want to get started, when's the right time to get started and to get coaching. And I'm like, the fact that you're emailing me means that you it's now is the time. Yeah, it's yeah. It's so I mean, I always say that I'm like, you don't want to end up like me where you're supposed to burn out because that is a really hard place to go back from. If you can catch the signs early and start making choices like the. Healthy side hustle, then, yeah, you'll be way more inspired and have more energy.
Yes, totally. I also just don't want to get like we're so privileged to be able to like I'm going to turn forty one this week and I'm so privileged to be able to be forty one, like a lot of people don't get the opportunity to live. And so if we, we are and in Australia beyond privileged to even have the choice of having a business as I feel like if that's what you want to do, give it a go. Like I always said to my husband, I'll give it a go for a year. If it doesn't work, I'm employable. I will find some way. And I used to work at Coles as a check out chick and like way back in the day. And I was like, I could apply to work at Coles again if I had to, but I'd rather do that and give it a go, then spend another ten years dreaming about doing it and not actually trying anything.
The pain of not trying. Like if you've got that idea in your head and you keep trying to suppress it, that is going to be so painful in your body. You can't it's like cutting off your own arm and pretending it didn't happen. You know, it's like it's not going to go away anyway. You can try and silence it. But, you know, there's a lot of beautiful poetry and words around. You know, it's alive in you and you've got this idea and this passion. Then chances are it's part of your story and it's what you're meant to be doing on this planet. And, yeah, I'm really interested in in understanding that better. It's like, do we all have this kind of little blueprint in there that's waiting to be uncovered?
Yeah, I mean, you do see people that have just got a gift, like they just brilliant at what they do, whether it's writing or painting or or like science or, you know, being an incredible doctor. And I feel like, yeah, you can feel in your body what's what feels natural and what comes easily and what feels like, you know, you're really pushing against it the whole time and…
Absolutely.
And so what was your, like, upbringing like? Do you feel like did you have a lot of pressure on you to go a certain path and maybe is that why you haven't gone down this path or or on the flip side, are your parents like super risk takers and like small business owners or in the creative states who felt like you could jump and create your own thing or what was kind of your upbringing like?
You know, my parents are not risk takers at all and they're definitely not entrepreneurial, although I did give my dad a box of books and I was like, you know, Dad, you can start selling them of your books. Yeah, yeah, that's one.
So I'm teaching him entrepreneurial skills at age 70. Nice. But no. So I grew up, I guess the traits that I look at now that have made me successful and what I do is this probably stubbornness or this drive to believe in myself and to set myself a goal and to be able to chase that goal, no matter how hard it might be or people tell me I can't do it. And I think that comes from when I was growing up. I did a lot of long distance running. I just I love sport in general. We were very I actually came from quite a low income family. And our childhood was like playing in the streets, like we were making swings and cubby houses and, you know, pulling my skateboard apart and putting it back together. And, you know, there was very Bush Street kids. And so we had to make fun. And I was always inventing games and kind of directing all the kids in the street around the relay races that I was coming up with. And then and then I got into I used to compete for state level and national levels for like surf life saving and running and long distance and track. And so I just kind of had this thing in me with, like, I like going to set out to do that.
Then I'll I want to do it really well and I'll do well. It like high achieving probably. And yeah, I think also that discipline of being a long distance runner where, you know, there's a memory for me of when I was in high school and grade 12, everyone's kind of sitting around and enjoying lunch together and know dating each other and stuff. But I was training for nationals running. So my coach and we had like all of these tests and things on after school. So I was going to miss the training session. And so my coach said at lunchtime today, you need to as soon as the bell goes, you've got 40 minutes. You've got to put your shoes on and do 10k run. Oh, my God. And this was in Queensland. Yeah, in Queensland in the middle of summer. And all my friends are having lunch. It's the end of the year.
And I as soon as the bell rides, I run to the bathroom, put my clothes on and run out and back. And I'm being like a really fast time. Get changed and get back to class because, yes, that kind of discipline of I had, you know, if I wanted to do well at the race, I had to get the keys in my legs and yeah, just having coaches who didn't let me cut corners and stuff. So I think that's a part of how I got to where I am. And I think at the end of the day, it's setting out to make a goal, a reality. And then I figure that out for myself and how to do that. And then I started figuring it out for other people. And yeah, I guess being able to communicate that in a really clear way is what people lacking of like. Yeah, straight up business advice is …[inaudible].
Yeah. I guess I love that. And do you still run now?
I know I should start. Thank you for the reminder that I'm in isolation so it's not my fault.
In exactly 40 days, I'll be checking on you. And so I love that you talked about, you know, that kind of influence and discipline and stuff coming into it and also your business journey. So when you were starting in business coaching, did you feel like, oh, I'm going to be able to do this, like I'm just going to carve my own way? Did you feel like, oh, my gosh, there's so many other people out there? Because one thing I want to touch on today is like since we have come into contact and you were clean before we started having kids, you know, kind of famous. But, you know, like when we started talking, we've been very well. I feel like at least we've been quite open with each other about pretty honest stuff. And, you know, it's really lovely to talk to someone who's in the exact same sort of business because you can say, oh, my gosh, like I'm really emailing you about a book thing. And me being like, oh, yeah, I felt exactly the same way. He is all my stuff. And I feel like it's such a lovely thing to be able to have that openness with someone who, by all means, outsiders could look at and say is a complete competitor. When you started your business, did you fall into a scarcity mindset or were you always someone who had this abundance mindset of like, it doesn't matter who else is out there, I'm going to carve my path?
Yeah, thank you, and I feel the same way, it's I love having other women especially, but in business together and yeah, I think that there's plenty to go around, but that doesn't mean that I haven't felt overwhelmed. I like even when I started the magazine. So the magazine was my first year in business and everyone was blogging at the time and doing all these things. And I just didn't I didn't read blogs. I was like I I've always loved print and hard copies. And I sat down and said, I'm going to start a magazine to a mentor of mine. And he said,
Oh, right, he's a print, he's a designer. And then I just rallied my friends together to write articles of local businesses on the Gold Coast where we were living. And so, like nine weeks later, we're about to put this magazine out and someone brings me the Collective Health magazine. I just thought it was my bit. I thought my magazine idea was fabulous. I was like, there's no beautifully designed business books, magazines. And then someone goes, hey, look at this magazine. I was like, get it? I mean, look at that, because I've never heard of it. But then I saw it and I just instantly was like, what have I done? Like, this magazine is so much better than mine.
And they've got all these big advertisements and they've got these big names and blah, blah, blah. And so at first I had a good look around and was like, all right, what's working and what's not working and what's our point of difference going to be? And then they got to a point where I was like, I actually can't look at it because I just felt like it was too much and I unfollowed it, all of it. And I just removed myself because it was too triggering. And then I think also when I started, like in business coaching wise, there wasn't many business coaches, creative business coaches. And I was very lucky in that I kind of threw Instagram back in the day where you could find really great connexions quite easily.
There was a group of women in Sydney who won was Clever Saurus Bang Designs Owners Collective, and that was another one who was in marketing and stuff and then two other friends who are photographers. So together we were all servicing creative entrepreneurs, but all offering different things. And we just really naturally banded together and would collaborate all the time and on podcasts and Instagram lives and events and yeah, new beginnings, fair to kind of brought us all together.
And so we had this really beautiful tribe of people who were like just out to support each other. We all kind of started out at the same level. And still to this day, many of those women turned up and said, hey, I've got an idea. It's always like, oh, yeah, of course, let's do it and throw each other opportunities and put each other on panels and stuff. So that was it. My my beautiful experience from the very beginning. And then there has been moments where I'm like, you can look at what other people are doing and go, oh, maybe I should do that, something along those lines. But I think what I've learnt over the years is that especially as a business coach, when you're buying somebody advice and services, there's an element of the knowledge and the achievements of what that person has done.
And then there's an element of the personality and the relatability or the core value alignment. And I think there's people who will be attracted to your style of coaching and people who will be attracted to my style. And and then also I've had clients come to me from other coaches, and some of my clients have gone on to other coaches as well.
So I think I learnt really early on business isn't personal and emotional. It's, you know, it's a transaction. And I do a lot of work on myself in therapy, but also self-help books and, you know, meditation and stuff. Some ways I think the biggest lesson I've learnt is when you surrender and trust that what I was meant to be for you will come, then there's no grasping and lack mentality and holding. You just surrender and everyone's on their path and things come your way that are meant to come your way. There's plenty to go around.
Oh my gosh, you can't see me. But I was like my cheeks almost hurting because I was smiling so much like so many great bits of wisdom in there from like cultivating a good supportive network through to carving your own path. And and I'm the same like I have people that come from different business coaches and then people who like well, I'll say I actually don't think I'm the right person for you. I think this person is. Let me introduce you. So I totally feel like, yeah, I've definitely had my own points as well, where I've had to switch people off and be like, I'm not looking at it. And it's funny that you mentioned the collective how? Because I come back to from London in twenty thirteen at the end of 2013 and actually it had the same sort of idea like oh there's nothing like this in Australia, I'm going to create it. And I went to a fashion show, I got invited to this some Melbourne Fashion Week or whatever, and I sat in the. To someone, and she was like, really bubbly and I was like, oh, hi. And she was like, oh my God, hi, I work for Collective Haab. We just started a new magazine checking out. And I was like, oh, and I had the same thing, if you like, but actually unemployed it was still. So that's a little bit. Yeah, I won't go down that path, but things change because that's totally changed direction as well. Now, so let's talk about your book, which is really exciting, how to start a side hustle. And of course, we'll link to this because coming out this week, if you're listening in real time. So congratulations. First of all, I know how hard it is to get a book out there.
Thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah, it was I actually looked back at my Instagram highlights the other day where it saved the documenting price, where I documented writing and I was like, what? How it's like that early.
Yes. How do you get it done? You just look back and like, well, firstly, how do you feel how do you feel having a book out in the world? This is your first book, is that correct?
This is my first book. I mean, it's terrifying. I need to stop saying that it's a complete and utter honour. It really came out of the blue, actually, when I picked up the covers that when I that the hard copy for the first time, I looked at my name and I just put the I was like, that's not my name. I felt really disassociated from it.
We just sort of like, oh my God, it's real. Or I'm actually trying to get to the bottom of this, so please help. With years someone doing all these personal development courses is like, yeah, I'd like to write a book. I love books. I've always I mean, always I've started falling in love with books when I was like 18, really a bit late to the party. But I just love I've always loved hardcover books and I read and always got a book that I'm reading, if not more like it's just been such a big part of my life and I've always really taken advice. There have been so significant. So I knew that an author is such a highly respected person and. Then when the book deal came along, I was like, oh, my God, I can't believe I'm going to write a book like this is a dream come true. And then when you actually do it and you sit down and you have to systemise how you're going to write a book. So, you know, up until that point, I dreamt of writing a book but had not done anything about it. It was like one day or something. And then once the publishing deal came in, I was like, all right, now I have to write this book like, thank God I had a deadline, but I created a system, outlined my chapters, and then I opened a Google doc for each chapter as I kept notes for each chapter is constantly reading other books still. So to get styles of writing ideas and stuff. And it was a step by step. It's like, you know, how do you eat an elephant? One bite? It's time. It's like you don't realise that you're actually making progress. You kind of got your head down doing it step by step. And then when I submitted my manuscript, there was this kind of like calmness that came over me that I completely devalued what I had just done and the fact that I had always wanted to do it and was like, oh, anyone can do that now. And I had to do it. I'm going to teach people how to do it. And it just became less of this, like far off dream and goal and more of like, OK, I've done that now. It makes sense.
Yeah, that totally makes sense
Because it's like when you want something that you've never had before, it feels like this dream. But then when you're actually in it and you're doing it, you're like, oh, this is possible. It's not a dream anymore. It's actually a practical process. And then I think by the time I saw it in my hands, I was like I spent the last year doing this thing like I mean six years teaching people how to start a side hustle that I don't know, maybe I need more sleep.
Oh, no. I feel like I was exactly the same. Like I was always talking about I'm going to write a book, I'm going to write a book and never doing anything. And then my husband was like, just frickin do it. He actually was like jokingly like, what would my business groups do? And then when I felt the same because I was like, oh my gosh, I've written a book. And I remember when I got the books like the first books into my house and I opened them and I kind of save them to open with my family, my husband, my son and I open them. And yet you kind of feel like you should have these bells and whistles and everything should stop confetti should stop falling from the kitchen table and stuff. But it did it. I was like, oh my gosh, it's amazing. But I feel like you need to really stop and like celebrate in some really great way because I feel like you can. Yeah, but life still goes on like with the good and the bad. Like I remember when my best friend died in a car accident when I was twenty one. And I remember just thinking the world should have stopped like I was in London, I was in a busy apartment on a busy road and I remember just looking out the window. It had a chance to work like and then on the flip side, something incredible can happen. But yet Bill still got to be paid to get bread and milk like it's. Yeah, yeah.
I don't have a personal assistant, you know, that's such a good that's a really good point. And I think that's like the thing too. I also what I would say is like pulling someone to you and your husband is like it was a team of people who made this book happen. Like the beauty of being published with a publishing house is that they weigh in on design, they organise the printing, they get the editor they critiquing to make sure it's really good. You know, I had my own editor. I had my little sister in on it. I have had friends giving feedback on the design side, like, yeah, it's like I wrote the words and that's my name. But the fact that it's how to start a side hustle during covid where a lot of people are realising that maybe they have an idea for a side hustle or want to finally do something about it. And it's beautifully designed, thanks to Hardie Grant. And it's easy to follow. It's like there's a team effort. This is not me.
I loved in the acknowledgements because you talked about your sister. Yeah. And so have you like I guess going back to that celebration thing, I often think that we may not be able to mark the celebration right there and then when you get the copies. But is there something else you're going to do, like I don't know, like especially with her as well. Like is there anything that you could plan with her that's like we've gone for this beautiful dinner, we've gone and done this because this is the moment to say, well done us.
Yeah. I mean, I've drunk lots of champagne, I will say. So we've started this. There's tradition. I don't know if you do this for like every milestone, we would pop a bottle of champagne and we'd write on the court. So whoever I was with at the time. So when I got the book, when I signed my contract, and then I think probably when I wrote Chapter one. And then, like submitting it and then all these things, so I definitely have been celebrating and trying to come to terms with it along the way. Yeah, my little sister's in Queensland. We're kind of locked out from each other for a while, I think. But I've got a bunch of friends, actually, one of my friends, my one of the editors, Abigail, who was also an acknowledgement, lives in Melbourne. And funnily enough, because of covid, we've never met each other in person. But I feel like she is my ultimate wing woman and she lives up the road and I'm not allowed to see her until the 8th like that would be a dream come true is to celebrate with Abigail in person and meet for the first time.
Yeah, you should totally do that. This actual podcast episode comes out on the 8th, so you should listen to it.
But yeah, I feel like it's super exciting. And so what do you think was the hardest part to kind of go through like or to write, or is it the hardest part now when it's coming out? Like, I feel like that is for me, that was quite hard the part when it came out because I had so many nightmare dreams I had. No one's going to buy it. If one's going to think I'm all these things rather than the actual writing of it, I found almost easier than than the actual oh my God, it's in the world now and I can't hide.
Yeah, no, I definitely wouldn't it be great to talk about maybe that conversation that you and I had the other day over email, but there was a lot of times where chapter one was really hard. I took myself away. I feel like I tried to do all of the romantic writer's retreat, things of like a movie. So I took myself away to this beautiful house out in the Bush side of Melbourne. And I hide it for two weeks. And I was like, I'm just going to get started, like, I have to get this done. And it was just such a beautiful house that I got so distracted, like lying by the pool and going on bush walks and cooking and making fires. And and I think I wrote it took me a whole month just to write Chapter one and sending that to Abigail, I was like, oh, I'm going to be found out now. They're going to know that I'm not a writer and they're going to ask for their money back and we'll just pretend it's never happened. And they go right back with beautiful feedback. And then how do you send the first one to Harry Grant? And they were like, we love it. Keep going. You write so well. And I just remember bursting into tears and being like, oh, my God, I can't believe I'm actually doing this.
Oh, no, it's so exciting. Yeah. I'm happy to talk about that conversation that we had. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. Do you want to kick it off?
I guess just quickly, another interesting struggle in between was like halfway through the writing process. I went through like a really difficult personal time. And that was, you know, for those who might be going through, I remember being like, how do people do this? I keep getting on with life and work when this stuff happening in their personal world. And I had to really channel everything can make this part myself into this process and use it as a distraction from my personal life. But then more recently, the conversation we're having another day is this, I guess, the culture maybe of, you know, you create something and you write it and you put it out to the world and you tell people, hey, listen to me, I'm an expert on this. I think it's very vulnerable and exposing to then lose on this edge of life. Now, people can say whatever they want about me and they might also disagree with what I have to say. And there's a savage world of the Internet where people can be quite horrible without thinking about the other person on the other side.
Totally. Totally.
So when I put my book out, I remember and I share this with you, I felt like which was I don't know where I got this idea from, just fear. Basically, I felt that people would say, oh, my gosh, she's not an accredited business coach. She's never done like the International Coaching Federation. So how could you call yourself a business coach? And so I went and I spent like six or seven thousand dollars on a coaching accreditation. And not a single person has ever, ever fit that. But I got it into my head that, oh, my. Going to have to have this before the book comes out because what if someone asks and which is ridiculous because business coaching is an unregulated someone with zero, someone just tomorrow can become a business coach and put themselves in your eye without that experience. But I just let fear win. And I look at that. I could have spent that money on something else and not even just the money, but the time like this. Sixteen modules is always. I have to record all these coaching sessions and send them in and and that's a lot of my time that could have been better spent. Every time I've submitted a module, I've thought, this is Feare. This is pure. It's validated. A lot of it's it's validated a lot of the stuff that I do do. I'm like, OK, this is all stuff that I know in some ways. But yeah. And so I was sort of saying that to you, like, don't let fear get too much because you just have no idea how it's going to be received and I'm sure it will be received amazingly. It's a great panel.
Thank you. Yeah, no, I totally relate. I remember when I read that email from yours, I asked God, and this is the beauty of having like-minded women on the journey. It's like here we are sitting over here being like it's like I remember seeing your book and I was in the middle of writing one. And I think I listen to your podcast about your book. And I was like, wow, her book is so beautiful. I'm not going to have any design aspects over mine. And look, it's so much bigger and like this is the better version of my book, like, you know, so and that was when I was still writing to and I was like, you just need to put that down and stay in your lane for now and come back to it.
And then I was able to review it from a place of like I've finished what I needed to do in my book. Now, you know, we have we're having these internal dialogues that are so much harsher critics on ourselves than what was actual reality. And I think it can really take you. And, you know, I definitely have caught myself trying not to go into a fear state and trusting and knowing that this book has got my heart and soul in it. And I genuinely want it to help people. And I think it's not rocket science, though. I'm not trying to prove a new theory or something, you know, change people's minds. I'm just giving instructions. So, yeah, I'm hoping everybody likes it.
Please like it, please like it. And even the things like it's sort of I don't know if irony is the right word, but when I started my book, I started with a quote from this woman's essay in the Chicago Tribune, and it it said it's from that sunscreen song and it said, forget the insults, remember the compliments. And if you know how to do these, teach me how and when. I got just like recently, I was Googling the book to see the Amazon reviews, to see if they've gone up, because anyway, for some reason I was talking about it with my publisher and I Googled it and I found a review on a different platform that was so scathing. And it wasn't about the book, it was about me personally. And it was like this author thinks her life's perfect and this whole book is all about how great her life is. And and I was so offended. And so, like, I just I was like, oh, my God, oh, my God. And I but instead, I didn't focus on all the great reviews and all the great DM's people who said this is actually help me. I focussed on this one person who God knows what they were going through that day, that they felt that they needed to go in, attack someone they don't know. But yeah, it really so I feel like in everything you do, there's going to be somebody who for some reason doesn't like it. And it's just about kind of pushing through that and not having that scarcity mindset that, oh, that's it. It's all over now.
Yeah, no, it's so true. And I've I've seen friends have that same experience with people having an opinion on their book online. And unfortunately, it's a little bit of the culture that we live in right now, which is people will say things that they don't have to face up to. And I think you look at like one of my greatest heroes is Serena Williams. And I remember watching this documentary on her when she was 15. I think I'm pretty sure she was 15, maybe seventeen, which is definitely in their teens. She was playing this tournament like Serena Williams, like she is a household name, but she's playing this tournament with a stadium of fifteen thousand people. The game before her, this final match was with Venus, and she was meant to play Venus. But Venus got injured and and pulled out. And so they didn't play the game. And the crowd thought that they were just trying to rig the competition or something like that. So there was this opinion of them. And Serena walked out onto the court and the play the finals and they booed her. The whole thing has people and they brought her the whole way through the match and she still won. And so, you know, I've seen we see this as a culture of people. And, you know, she's still the greatest of all time, in my opinion.
Yeah. It's just it is terrifying. But I think you're right in that I'm starting to really prepare myself mentally and physically for whatever comes next after the book launches and what people have to say. And I think the only thing I can do is be really certain in myself and who I am and and not let other people's opinions get to me really.
And on. Positive note, a more positive light. What do you want people to take away from how to start a side hustle like once they read the book, or do you want them to read the book from start to finish? I want people to do the activities and like how you kind of envisioning that people will use this book?
I haven't read it for a while. So what's I need to sit down and read it. But I think for me the biggest thing is I and I've had this feedback a little bit as well already is I want people to be like, wow, I can do that. I can do it like that. Doesn't feel like this big, scary, hard thing. It's like, here's some things I can do to get a good foundation in place. You know, the book is going to cost you 20 dollars, probably less if you get done or you can go to a library and borrow and go to the library. So, you know, you get this book that has you know, when I started the business was very much men in suits, the CEOs business degrees, Start-Up Capital. And to me, I want this book to be like, you know what? If you can get these things in place, you're off to a good start. And then you can you can keep coming back to it and keep reiterating it. So I feel like it's a quite an easy read. So you should be able to kind of go. All right, cool. Maybe I'll go from start to finish and understand the concept then, and it'll flow hopefully step by step. There's activities that you can do in there or you come back and do them at the end. But yeah, the goal is that you set yourself up for success from the very beginning and kind of get some mindset stuff and then take it step by step. So it is designed to go from an idea to reality. But also, I think if you've already started and you're feeling a bit overwhelmed or a bit lost or you've got a new idea that you'll be able to come back and just rehash and get some little inspiration and some gold and some ideas of, oh, that's right. This is what I'm doing it for.
Oh, it's such a great book and I love the size of it. And I was talking to somebody who's going to stock it and they were saying it's such a good gift book as well because it's it's it's just beautifully designed. It looks really nice as well as obviously the content is good inside as well. And so the last thing I wanted to ask you about your book is like I loved when he said I haven't read it. I didn't read my book either. I got it. And I was like, I'm not going to read it for ages because it's almost like scared that I'd forget what I'd written and wouldn't like it or something. But who was the first person that you sent a copy to or was it your family, your parents?
Yeah, no, I'm so scared. I opened it. I read a chapter. I forced myself because it's it'll be an unavoidable in September. So I have to read it for Audible. So I need to stop practise my reading skills and also making sure it's close. But I'm just scared of like finding a mistake or changing an opinion or something. But the first person so I picked it up from Alice, a grant from her office and nearly started crying when she gave me the first copy. And then I FaceTime my little sister and my two best friends, Alex and Nicole. And yeah, I just FaceTime to a bunch of people because I was in Melbourne and then kind of just carried it with me everywhere. I went for a few weeks. So I had my parents because I had the first person I gifted it to was. Not together yet.
Well, you'll get to give him one in person when you meet up.
Yeah, I don't know if you had this experience. It's so weird to think you want a copy of my book, because I mostly just like everyone can have one, like, whatever, and then I'm going to buy it like, no, just take it.
“I want to support you.” And even just like another person bought it and she's like, can you sign my book? And I was like, oh God. Like, really? I'm just saying, no, no, I want you to sign it. And I was like, oh, I thought of that. Like, I just sent out a bunch of friends without signing it…
It's just a weird experience. And I think I went to a bookshop in Sydney called, reached out and said, OK, can you come in for a meeting? We going to talk about your book. So I went in and they're like, OK, cool. So we'd like to do an evening with the author and we're going to do a Q&A and we're going to sell these tickets. And then we'll put you up here as a featured book. And then do you mind if you sign a bunch of copies? Because we'll be we'd like to sell signed copies in store. And I was like, yep, I just kept nodding, like trying to keep a straight face. And then I walked out of the bookshop and lost my shirt laughing. And I called my mom and I was like, take me off the hook.
I love that. That's so aside from books, because you mentioned and also I should just mention as well that obviously it's published by Hardie Grant. But if you were listening and you run any kind of bookshop, you store any kind of hardware store, this would look really good and definitely get in touch with Kailin or Hoddy Grant directly, but also because and she can fill it up as well and get this into your into your shop if you're listening, because it's such a gorgeous book and it will make such a great gift idea, but also just a great idea for yourself as well if you're in business. Thank you. No worries. You mentioned before that when you were 18, you got really into books and that books were a huge part of how you formed your business. What else has helped you? So they kind of podcast's have you done particular courses that you'd recommend to people? You've mentioned Minto's you mentioned to the group of people that you support crew as well. But what has helped you really with building your own business like you've obviously helped a lot of people. What's helped you or who has helped you?
Yeah, good question. To be honest, I think really working on myself as a person has been like game changing for me, like doing therapy, doing meditation courses. I did a weeklong retreat with Doctor Joe Dispenza, who. Oh, well, is the meditation that I talk about all the time. And I've done like weeklong retreats in Bali and like for tantric schools, which is like sacred sexuality kind of yoga stuff. I've been to a personal development, one where you walk on fire like, yeah, I do a lot of that kind of self development and understanding myself, because I think it makes, you know, when you're working with people, then you better understand people and yourself. And you can also and I think over the years I've been really interested in this conversation around what is our purpose and why are we here and how do we tap into our potential. So, yeah, I think, like kind of going on that journey of understanding in myself and unravelling that and then leading using that in my business as a bit of a point of difference.
But yeah, definitely podcast's like there's I mean, I did love Tony Robbins when I first started out and Richard Branson and then is like how I built this was massive. So I don't listen to as many podcasts now around business. There's a really good podcast that I'm loving called The Slow Collective, and it's about how to biohacking, your body and mind to get into a flow state, which is just where humans become highly productive and creative and work really well. So that's where I'm really interested in learning about lately.
But also just people like I think I'm definitely the person that asks lots of questions like say what you do, how to do it, you know, where do you get that? You know, you'll do the same thing where you like you know, you're in a restaurant and you figure out who the owner is and then you acknowledge them and say, well done and how beautiful it is. Or you ask where they got their lighting done.
Yes.
Or you give feedback either good or bad. But yeah, I love learning from other people, I think, and their stories.
I love that. And I love, you know, so much of the work isn't external. It's not like, oh, I've got to buy another course, I've got to do this. It's about figuring out yourself, like, why haven't I allowed myself to do it? So why don't I put myself forward for that and really uncovering those things. It's awesome that you're doing so much work on that space. Thank you. And so I guess what's something that you're really proud of from your journey so far? I always ask people this question because I love hearing about it.
Yeah. I mean, I think that over the years it's definitely been the highs of, like, putting the magazine out and the book out and hearing people's feedback from the podcast and things like that. But there's been days where I've wanted to throw the whole thing in the bin and walk away from it and never do it. You know, just StartUp Creative down and be like I'm shutting it down and I'm not helping any more people. And it's been through overworking myself and taking on too much and struggling with my own health or my personal relationships, taking a lot of energy from me. And I've always found a way to bounce back. And I think the fact that six years on and there's a book coming out, I think looking at some of those dark days or the hard days and being like, you know what, you could have given up, but you you found a way through any of those what felt like impossible problems to solve. And you kept showing up and it got better and it keeps getting better. So I think, yeah, knowing that it hasn't always been easy and still is, and I'm sure there'll be plenty more. But I think it's more about when you hear those people say, actually, I had a message on Instagram this morning of someone saying that she was walking into work today to resign and that she wouldn't have been able to do it without all of the resources and support with StartUp Creatives. So, yeah, that was beautiful. Was like, you know what? At the end of the day, this StartUp Creative exists so that people can know that finding what they love and turning it into a viable business is possible for them and perhaps maybe what we're all here to do.
Oh, I love that. And what a great way to finish up, because it's yeah, I think that's it's such a good reminder that that's a really strong purpose and passion behind what you do. And so if people are listening to this and they're like, oh my gosh, she's amazing and maybe they've been living under a rock and they don't know who's had a period of years before this, where is the best place for them to connect with you? And, you know, is it email? Is Instagram like where do you like to chat people?
Yeah, I mean, come say hi on Instagram for sure, it's at StartUp Creative's or one word. It definitely gets busy over there, though, and I definitely I like black people sliding into my DMS and saying hi and stuff. So please do that. And I'll always try to get back to you as quick as possible. If you're interested in whether it's book docking or consulting or anything along those lines, for me as a service email would be the best. So it's hello, StartUp Creative dot com. Did you then check out our website? I'm actually in the phases of uploading a bunch of resources and bonus things that didn't quite fit into the book that is happening. So if you've got a copy of the book and you want more of that, come over to the website. But either way, there's lots of pretty amazing resources out there that you might be able to help.
Amazing. Well, thank you so, so much for coming on. And I'm so excited for your book. Yeah. Can't wait to see everyone sharing it. And it's a beautiful cover as well, so I feel like there'll be a lot of Instagram sharing of it when it comes over. But yes, such great work and massive congratulations on it.
My pleasure. Thank you so, so much for having me here and for taking the time to read the book and just being on the journey.
Oh, no, it's totally my pleasure. And now that you're in Melbourne, we can meet in real life once you get over your lockdown period.
Fingers crossed. We'd love that. All right. Take care. See you soon. Bye.
Oh, so many great insights, tips and advice, and I just absolutely love chatting to Kaylene, so thank you again for coming on the podcast. I would love to know what you took away from this episode. Please DM me send me a DM over on Instagram at @mydailybusinesscoach and I'm sure you would love to know what you took from it. You can send her a DM over at StartUp Creative and if you're not already following them, make sure you do. The book is called How to Start a Side Hustle, and it is available through Hardie Grant and you can find it an all online places. But I would also urge you thinking about a small business that you can support. So a small business bookshop, gift store. I know that. Think Thornbury, the lovely Maggie and Josh will be stocking it. So check that out. But everywhere else, I'm sure Happy Valley and other places will be stocking it. So definitely check that out if you can. If not, you know, you can always go. And if money's a little tight, you could go and order it from a library. If you're in Australia, you can order any single book from around the world in a library. You can ask a library to buy it in and they will do that for you. So, so many ways to get this. And like Kayleen mentioned, there are a bunch of resources over at www.startupcreative.com.au that can help you work through the book as well.
So two things really stood out for me in this. Number one, that it doesn't matter how successful, how many Instagram followers you have. We all go through fear. We all go through that. And I love that as a business coach, I get to work with people through all sorts of fears and anxieties. And a lot of those people are seemingly very successful. You know, they've got hundreds of thousands of followers on Instagram. They have been around for a while. People know their brand. They dress really well. They've got super cool style. They still have their old fears. And I love that Kaylene was beautiful enough to share some of the fears that she had around this book and even talking about her fears, becoming a business coach and coming from an unconventional path. I just think that the more we can all do that, the better it is for everyone because we all go through the same stuff. So that was number one.
Number two, what I loved was that Kaylene really talked about the people behind her or working with her on this book. And I think that's something that we can forget. I know in my own book journey, we had my husband, who was incredibly supportive while we had a newborn and another child to look after. I also had obviously that team at Hardie Grant. I had my mother-in-law who looked after my newborn son for a day, a week. I also had a beautiful nanny, Louise, who came for four hours a week as well to help. And it just there's a whole team of people. I workshopped this with lots of my friends at the time. I I rang them up, kind of worried about, oh, my God, people are going to say this or that. I really had a whole team behind me and so did Kaylene. And I think that's something again, that especially when you're in, say, the service-based business in your face is the brand. And, you know, Kaylene’s beautiful face is the brand of StartUp Creative people can often misjudge or think that you're doing everything yourself and it's all you
. And then they can compare themselves and think, well, why can't I do as much as Kaylene or Fiona or other people? Just remember, you know, Kaylene she mentioned she has a very supportive family as to why we have people behind us. And I think that can be something that people don't talk about enough. So I loved that she mentioned her sister. She mentioned her editor. She mentioned, you know, going away to this beautiful house, lots of support. So, again, I know I often talk about cultivating your crews, but it's a really important thing. You know, just even having Kaylene now is somebody that I can chat to about business, vice versa. I think it's so important. She also talked about the group that she was part of at the start and how they've kind of all kept each other going through, you know, years and years in business.
I think it's so important to cultivate a great networking group, a great support group that you can go to when things are great and you can have them totally celebrate you. But also when things aren't so great, you have them there to give you support and encouragement. So those two things, as well as so many other things, stood out to me. And I absolutely love chatting to Kaylene again. Her book is called How to Start a Side Hustle, and we'll link to that over in the show notes, you can find the show notes at mydailybusinesscoach.com/podcast/114
And just a reminder, if you are listening to this in real time, it is still night after week, which is a week to really celebrate First Nations history stories and achievements. And I know in the episode before this one won three, we mentioned a bunch of links for what you can do to get involved in DataQuick and you can find them over at mydailybusinesscoach.com/podcast/113. Alternatively, for way more links and information, you can just head over to NAIDOC website, which is NAIDOC.org.au
Thank you so much for listening and I'll see you next time. Bye.
Thanks for listening to the My Daily Business Coach podcast. If you want to get in touch, you can do that at mydailybusinesscoach.com or hit me up on Instagram at @mydailybusinesscoach.
