Episode 122: Creating a purpose-led business with friends and surviving a pandemic, An Interview with Belinda Galloway and Bree Hankinson of The Windsor Workshop
In this small business interview episode, Fiona talks to the wonderful and creative duo behind The Windsor Workshop, Belinda Galloway and Bree Hankinson. The Windsor Workshop is a creative hub that provides workshops, events and room hire for the creative and corporate communities in Melbourne, as well as a co-working space for small business owners and soloperators to connect and work. Listen now to learn more about running the business with a friend and how Bel and Bree stayed motivated despite the challenges of running a physical business during numerous lockdowns in Australia.
Topics discussed in this episode:
Introduction
Catching Up
Starting The Windsor Workshop
Running the business with a friend
How the business operates
Marketing strategies
Advice for starting a business with friends
Key to running a great workshop
Staying motivated
Doing offsite strategy planning dates
Mentors and mantra
Doing things differently today
Most proud moment in running a workshop
What's next?
Getting in touch
Conclusion
Get in touch with Bree and Bell
Get in touch with My Daily Business Coach
Episode transcript:
When things seem very stressful, the going is tough, sometimes Bree and I have to bring it back and go, wow, I mean, come on, I mean, so these people want that night and it's not available and they're really not happy about it — but let's not get stressed about this. This is not surgery. This is not rocket science. Just bring it back to the simplest of terms and realise what we're doing . I love what we do. And the bringing together the gathering of people is so important. But let's not get stressed out over the small stuff. And I know we talk about that a lot, but I do think [when] you're building a business or running a business, you cannot sweat the small stuff. You have to put in perspective and move on and move forward.
Hello and welcome to Episode 122 of My Daily Business Coach podcast. I am in lockdown #5. You know, it's hard to keep track of how many lockdowns there are in Melbourne, but, yeah, coming to you from my little office out the back. And I'm coming to you from Warrandyte, as always, so I just want to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land in which I'm recording this and having this interview episode today. So Wurundjeri people of the Kulin nation. And I just pay my respects to their Elders past, present and emerging and just give you this as like a little sign that regardless of where you are in the world, just do your bit today, this week, this month, to keep equality alive and make it a real possibility for everybody, across this planet that we all share.
So today I am giving you an interview episode, and it's with an incredible duo that are behind a very cool small business here in Melbourne. And a lot of you, if you are in Melbourne, will know about it. If you're in Sydney, you'll probably know about it as well. And hopefully wherever you're joining us in the world, that you get some real insight and inspiration from today's interview. So I am talking to Belinda Galloway and Bree Hankinson from the Windsor Workshop. Now, the Windsor workshop is a bit of an institution in Melbourne. It was started originally by Sarah and Bree Hankinson - sisters, - and they're both super creative people. And then after about five years, Belinda came into the business and it's now run by Bel and Bree. And it has been for the last five years.
And as we talk about today, they really had to uncover, “OK, we're friends, we know each other really well. How are we going to run a business together?” And they talk about the challenges and they talk about the awesome things, about what it's like to be in partnership with somebody that you just really love and have fun with as a friend as well. What are the good parts? What are the more challenging parts? And they just give so much really raw, honest advice to anyone listening who wants to go into partnership in this episode. We also talk about what it's been like as a physical business to go through this pandemic; they did have to close temporarily in 2020 and here Melbourne with lockdowns it’s been stop-start, stop-start.
And so they talk about how they kept motivated, how they've kept going, what they did, how they took advantage of that time that they had away from the business to work ON the business. And they give so many tips for people who may be running an event, space, business, a physical business, or maybe you're a photographer or somebody else in that service space that absolutely has to have things open for your business to operate. I just think they're really, you know, real and honest about it. And funny as well. These women are just so upbeat and positive and you just want to become their friend. They’re really, really lovely. And in this podcast as well, they give away so many tools and resources that have helped their business and we link to all of those in the show notes.
The other thing that they very kindly recommend in there is the Marketing for Your Small Business course and coaching program, of which they took part in earlier this year. And I love, like I LOVE hearing from people that have, you know, worked through a course or worked through my book or, you know, had some sort of dealing with me outside of business coaching and how they found that to be. And just a reminder, if you are listening, I am running the Marketing for Your Small Business course and coaching program now. So it's it's open for enrolments now. We're actually starting on the 17th of August, but it is open for enrolments until the 10th of August. So if you're looking to change up your marketing, to really understand marketing, to get a lot more clarity and confidence around marketing, then definitely check that out. And you can do that over at marketingforyoursmallbusiness.com. But yeah, like I said, this is just such a warm, open, funny, real interview with two incredible small business owners who have created a really cool brand, The Windsor Workshop.
So here it is, my interview with Belinda Galloway and Bree Hankinson of the Windsor Workshop.
Welcome Bree and Bel to the podcast.
Bel: Thanks for having us.
Bree: Thank you.
So how are you feeling about life right now? I know all three of us are in lockdown for the 567th time, but how are you both going? And I guess how has Covid impacted your life and your business, The Windsor Workshop?
Bel: Did you want to take that Bree, since you’re having a good day?
Bree: Yeah. So today is the perfect example of the ups and downs. So I think we're all pretty aware of how real the juggle is. So the good part is that we sort of enjoy the slowing down of it with sort of a muscle memory going on now where we know exactly what to do when lockdown happens. Our business, thankfully, is carrying on because people know that life is still going to be going on , where as this time last year, we just sort of stopped getting enquiries because no one knew if we were going to still be around. But now people know that life is going to go on. So we're still getting lots of enquiries and just trying to juggle that with home life.
Bel: And, I guess, being our fifth lockdown, there's enough structures in place now in a business and personal sense that we've sort of become quite good at it. Having said that, it's still challenging. And as Bree said, because Melbourne businesses are so used to being locked down now, nothing's really stopping. And that's a little bit new for Bree and I because last year our business did close sort of well, it was indefinitely. But now what we're finding is differently, last time we were able to sort of put our attention into our home schooling, our small kids and whatnot. But now because we're finding that people aren't stopping and it's a little bit like the show must go on, even though we're in this lockdown, we are now having to try and figure out that balance of work and school and whatnot. So even though we've got these quite good structures in place because we're used to this, it's still changing and I'm sure it will continue to change and evolve as we go in and out of lockdown.
Yeah, I was talking to a client today and they were just sort of saying there's no novelty. There used to be a novelty …like at the start, everyone was like, Oh, I'll make you some sourdough and I'll drop it over. Now it's just like, life is crap.
Bree: …and here we go again.
Bel: Yeah, I don't know about you, Fiona, but I feel like I know Bree and I do a little have a bit of a lockdown routine going on. As soon as it's announced, Bree, Sarah and I, we've been doing art club all through lockdown last year and so as soon as lockdown's announced the first thing we do is go , right I’m booking an art club for this Saturday at home with my kids. We drag the mattresses into the lounge room. We do like a camp out for the whole of lockdown. There's just things like that that we automatically do now. And we know what keeps us sane. Yes. And I guess so for us, we know exactly what keeps to sign. And so there are still think I think you agree here. There's a few little novelty things that we have continued that make this less painful for us.
Bree: Absolutely. Yeah.
Yeah. That's a good reminder because we have some of those things. And I think sometimes I need to shake it off. Sometimes. I tell that to my son, like, “Let's shake it off if we're in a bad mood.” And I think it's just the rollercoaster of one day, a great day. And then the next day you're like, “oh my God, I'm ready to kill someone.
Bree: You've got to just feel the feels.
Feel all the feels. So a lot of people will know The Windsor Workshop and a lot of people I know that listen to this podcast or in that kind of creative scene. And they know the two of you and also your sister, Sarah, who I believe started doing so except with you. Can you kind of talk us through The Windsor Workshop, what it is, the coworking part of it, and also how you two ended up running a business together?
YBree: Yeah, I can. Actually, The Windsor Workshop started almost ten years ago now, and it was made coming from overseas, not really knowing what I was doing. Sarah had been sort of share housing in a lot of other co-working places and thought she wanted to start her own. Because she wanted to be able to decorate it the way she wanted and curate the sort of people we had in there. So we started running a coworking space together in this beautiful, architecturally designed building in Chapel it used to be the old Paddison building. So it's got like without sounding (woo woo). It's got a really beautiful sort of creative energy in there. So we thought of that. And then about five years ago, the space next door opened up. And so then that's when the Belinda came in. Do you want to take over from here, Belinda?
Bel: Yeah. So at that stage I was running a contemporary jewelry gallery in Melbourne and Bree and I met through mothers group, so our eldest were about to turn ten eleven. And so we had at this stage I guess we’ve known each other for about five years. And they said, “Oh, do you mind coming in and have a coffee with me? I've got to just something I want to run by you.” And at this stage and the kids are sort of about to start school. And so I was running a gallery. It was in the city. It was… Dream job, and it was a job and a career that was a very defining for me and I loved it, but I also knew that with my kids about to start prep and I wanted to be a mom who could be there for school, drop off and pick up, I could sense to myself it was a little bit of a sort of shift in what will I do now that my kid is about to start school and whatnot. So, Bree had called me in and we had a coffee and she said, I've got this idea about the space next door and I've got this idea about running workshops. And I thought I'd just pick your brain. And we had a chat about it. And by the end of that coffee, I was resigning and going into partnership with Bree and we were starting this business and it all just sort of happened from there. Is that your recollection, Bree?
Bree: That sounds right. And then now, there’s this very sort of intertwined business. So there's a co working space and then our space a side by side. So we work from the coworking space when there's people next door, there is Sarah is our resident artist that does allow creative stuff. It's all very intertwined now.
Bel: Yeah, I don't always say like so even though Sarah and I don't technically run or own a business together, I would still count the three of us as business partners because a lot of our ventures we do with the three of us and we discuss a lot of things, the three of us, whether it might not involve me as a business owner or, it might not involve Sarah as a business owner. And we will still sort of discuss things as a whole. That's actually been a really beautiful evolution of our business. I love the fact that now Bree, Sarah and I have almost like a separate little business that we're sort of running or starting with the three of us does have these awesome ideas for creative pursuits that we're going to start implementing really soon. And yeah, it's just a really great little company.
Bree: I think, going very back to what we actually do. I don't think we even answered that question in that spiel of how we came about. But we basically on one side of the wall, we run creative events. So we run sort of craft and design workshops and we always try to focus on traditional crafts that have a sort of contemporary twist to them. But then we also hire the space out to businesses or corporates who are looking to run their own strategies and planning days and stuff. So that's what we do in a nutshell.
Amazing, and it sounds like it's been kind of a fun ride. I'm sure we'll get into the not so fun parts of it, but how like I know that lots of people that work with me and lots of people in DMs and stuff will say, I feel like I'm at the point where I want to take on a partner or I have this friend of mine who's just resigned from that job. I think they'd be perfect to bring onto the business. You have both. You've talked about it. You've both been creative in your own right, and as Sarah. What do you think has been like the easiest part? Is it what you just talked about, like just this friendship and this camaraderie and this really great creative support? And then I guess on the flip side, what's been challenging, going from running the ship yourself to coming into a business with somebody else as a partner?
Bree: Yes, I think the parts that make it great, being able to bounce ideas off each other and that whole idea of having different perspectives and someone will inevitably come up with something that we hadn't even thought of. And you sort of challenge to think about things differently to how you normally would if you're on your own. But we've really perfected this balancing act of like if one of us is struggling or having a meltdown, the other one really just pick things up. It's almost uncanny the way that works in exactly that. Like if one of us isn't coping, it's almost like whatever strength that person might have had just gets transferred to the other in a split second. And one has all the strength. That one has nothing. And there's an understanding that we just go on like that until it equals out again and eventually it equals and then flip. And there's just this really beautiful thing that happens. And sometimes I do wonder how it just works out like that, that it's wonderful that there's not a stage where we're both melting down. there. Probably will. Come on. Yeah. Yes.
Bel: Look, the relationship that bracer and I have I mean, Bree and Sarah are actual sisters. And I would have to say I feel like for me, I’ve entered this beautiful sisterhood and it has a very much a family feel to it like and so there is a lot of laughing. And that is a really beneficial and great thing. And that's a real positive of our business partnership. And it also means we've got similar values. And as you were saying before, about wanting to pick up the kids on time, we've we've got that. So it's not like we've got this one person that wants to work 70 hours a week and so, you know, burn the candle at both ends. And the other person is just like, nah, I really only want to work half a day, a week. Like, we've both got that similar sort of mindset and similar values. So that that makes it easy as well.
Bree: It does make it easy. I guess the flip side to that in being so similar and and whatnot, is that often we have a work in progress meeting that we do every Tuesday morning and often we don't even get to work/talk until about sort of 10:30 or 11, because there's just a lot of catching up to do always. So the challenge is staying on track a lot of the time because our lives are so intertwined, not just within business, but personally as well. So that I think that's challenging when you have a partnership with friends or family or someone you know is obviously just trying to keep it on track and I guess not feeling that time with personal stuff when you should be working.
Yeah, I feel like that happens all the time, regardless of who you're talking to. I have a good friend. We’re not in partnership together, but we meet every week about our businesses and we've had to really go, “Okay, there’s a ten minute limit like spill everything in. Then we've got these one hour dedicated and we used the hour. But there's definitely been some times where we've got to the end. Oh my God, I've got ten minutes left for this call!
Bel: But I feel like that does happen anyway. The director of the gallery that I was working for her and I. When you work with someone so closely, your lives do become intertwined. And I mean her and I used to do the same. I mean, I ended up working for her for ten years and we always would start our meetings with a catch up on how things are going. And sometimes that would involve hours of chat or counselling, Or it would result in one of us. So both of us crying over something and then we hadn't even got to work it, but it was almost like that had to sort of be released before we could get onto work. So I think it does happen a lot of places. And I guess keeping that cap is key there.
Yeah. And you also forget, like, I think when I think back of places I've worked in teams I’ve managed and stuff, you have all that chat. And it's funny because when I used to consult more, I'd go into like a big company and I'd be texting my husband like, “Oh my God, everyone just wants to talk like no one does any work.” Like you like for yourself at home where every hour is. If you don't have to work, then you don't it. But we have to be there for eight hours. We're going to just make small talk, like go and get a cup of tea and come back. And I'd forgotten how much of that stuff happens in offices. He's like, but we have to be there for eight hours. We're gonna just make small talk and like, go and get a cup of tea and come back. And I'd forgotten how much of that stuff happens in offices.
Bree: Yeah, that’s what Belinda's like quite keen to when there's big jobs that they doing to work from home because that is one of the perils of the coworking space. And there’s about ten of us in there. And that's always great conversation. It's always funny. There's always a good laugh. Like there's an hour of chatting before you've even sat down sometimes.
Oh, my goodness. And so with the coworking space, can people go in and. Hire a desk full time or do they just come in casually or do you have a mix of both?
So it's mostly this sort of work we've had at the moment, sort of obviously lost stuff, things around a bit. But we've had this group of the same people for about two years, I think, which is probably the longest we've had people in there. Yeah, last year we sadly lost about half of them because they were winning photographers and videographers and stuff. It's generally people that hang around for a long, long time thinking now, whether we open it up to 50 or more short term contracts, even the the way people work. Now, that might be better if we start to do that. But generally speaking, people hire a desk and then hang around for a couple of years.
Wow. OK, so if you are in the market for that and you're listening, then get in touch because you can easily make friends into people to chat to a lot.
Yeah, and they're all great. They're all funny and creative. Plenty of opportunity for collaboration. So there you go.
You go to the wedding, Zwick's up in the sky nights and everything else. But speaking of the coworking space, and then you said before that you've got these kind of bigger companies or say brands that bookit to do the offsite strategy, planning what to do other events that they want to do as a business and maybe come out of their workspace and have this change in environment and everything. How do you kind of appeal to both the solo operator or the freelancer who's like, I want a desk because I want some company, I want to get out of the house and then also have the space for we're going to go up to bigger corporates and be saying we have the place to be. How do you kind of look at your marketing strategy for both of those? How do you appeal to to both of them at the same time? Because I know that that's something that many small business owners grapple with where they like. We do direct to consumer here, but we're also B2B here. Like, how have you kind of within ourselves?
That's something we've really struggled with, actually. And we sort of keep looking around in circles when we did your marketing for small business, cos I'm not sure they do much that we have this amazing light bulb moment where we were like, do you know what? People are coming to our space for different reasons. One might be because they want to dedicate to themselves to do a creative workshop and slow down or learn something they've always wanted to learn, or whether it's a team from a corporate that want to get back on track after last year's shenanigans and, you know, figure out what they're doing. The outcome of our place is still the same. It's still a place that you can come, you can connect with people in real life. And thankfully, that's something people are pretty excited to do after last year. And essentially you're sort of creating and connecting and collaborating. So it's funny that even though it's really different, appealing to people to appeal to, that's the same thing at the end of the day that they're coming to us for doesn't actually help with the marketing because we still don't know, like who we have to market to specifically. Yeah, it's really interesting to really get to the bottom of that thing. Well, it's definitely the same thing at the end of the day. Absolutely.
Yeah, I love that. I think that's the thing sometimes we can get so caught in the detail as opposed to a little bigger picture. Like you said, it's connection whether that connection happens once one whether it happens one to a class, whether it happens in a business strategy, kind of your connection with yourself. And then I come and do a mixed class and then you're like, oh, my God, this is what I need to do with my life.
Or even just we have people where I think this ceramics workshop, we've had someone come back three times, even though they know every time you come back, you're learning the exact same thing because they know that it's just time that they can carve out to just do their own thing.
And, oh, my gosh, so important. And kind of going back to working together and working with your sister Sarah as well. How did you guys figure out who does what when you started? Because I guess, again, there'll be people listening to this who are either thinking of going into business or are in business. And so what advice would you give to people who are thinking it'd be fun to go into business with each other? How do you kind of figure out who does what so that you're not sort of bashing heads, doubling up on the same work?
Yeah, I mean, we probably are still not great at this. I think that's often a bit of a downfall full of small business. There was some things when we started that were really easy to sort of divide up, for example, in the graphic designer. So automatically that website development, the branding development or the the ITC falls into her category, luckily, because I will certainly doesn't fall into that category. So some of those were easy to divvy up just based on our existing skill base. But having said that. As it evolves, I think you need to keep reassessing. And again, I don't think that's something we'd be great at, but we we recognise as an element that's really important. So we we try and put emphasis on dividing these roles. And as time goes on, we see more and more the importance of that and the benefits of that as far as the efficiency of the way we work and and what not. So, yeah, I guess my advice would be do try and establish that as soon as you can, but be open to the fact that it will probably evolve over time. Some things are easy. So if you already have a very obvious skill set like graphic design, then just divvy that up straight away and just be open to taking on things that either you might be good at but you might not be good at. And you have to learn. And that's something that I have had to do as far as that sort of teamwork and learning how to use different things like Slack and Studio Ninja and all that type of thing to figure out who wants to do the talking to the bookkeeper. The financial side of things is something that's really like some of the things that we both want to do together because we both enjoy the things we both really don't like doing. So figuring out how we can apply those to the other person if we do a pretty good job at trying to share the shitty jobs,
that's hopefully… Gosh. I can imagine that because of certain things in my business that no one else does. And I wish I had somebody else. Sorry, I can't make that meeting. I totally forgot it was all new to it. But the winter workshop, obviously it's the people that are listening and that know it. It's known for great experiences and great events and really beautiful events and experiences. What do you think is key to running a great workshop or an in-person event? Because obviously people listening to this are in different stages of lockdown and we get people all over the world listening to this podcast, which is amazing. Thank you. But if someone's thinking I'm going to come out of this pandemic and I'm going to run more in-person events or workshops, what do you think is key to making it really good?
Yeah, look, I think what has been Kaixian, what's really worked for us was to keep it really personal and I you know, we talk to every single one of our clients. It's a really beautiful thing. We really enjoy it. Keeping things very personal and personalised, I think has been the key to our clients, both corporate and creative, just coming back time and time again. And then we have such a loyal client base that we need only a handful of corporates to fill our space hire venue each week. And it's because I just I know when they come to us, it's a seamless operation that there's attention to detail, that they know who they're dealing with. We're able to keep things light in a situation that might be stressful for them. And we do we do that across the board, whoever it not whoever is coming in and using our space. And I guess that might be a point of difference is just being quite hands on and just making it easy for everyone. And I think as well, making people feel like they're special and pampered and that for both the corporate workshops and for our creative workshops. So when we want to run a creative workshop, we are not just learning that whatever it might be, ceramics or painting or whatever we're actually feeding you. We usually pour a glass of wine. You get to go home with the material so that you can keep going. It's not just a walk in and out, do a bit of writing and walk out. We want people to have a really nice experience and feel great when they leave. Yeah, and I know that this word is thrown around a lot now, being authentic in authenticity, but that is really important to me and I because we are two moms, we've got a family, two kids. And when we began this business, we sort of thought, oh, you know, we have to appeal, like we're really professional. And that wasn't really off. And not that we're not professional, but that sort of having that air of sophistication is potentially not really us. And so as we've gone on in this business and I guess become more confident, I think we're really authentic. And I think it comes across in our events and I think it comes across in our workshops. And the experience you get from us is that, you know, when you come to us, we just two very down to earth people. We're going to tell a funny story. We're going to drop an F bomb. And these things are what people see as us and the Windsor workshop. And I think that we just still think we are who we are to everyone. And I think that that's comforting and welcoming and warm. And I think that's why people come back to us.
Yeah, you guys are definitely very warm and friendly and like to zoom with you and everything. It's just it's just like vivacious and lively and upbeat and it's really all I can imagine what your experience like in there as well. Have you ever read or heard of anything? She's written The Art of Gathering
No Prayer, Parca Cleopatra. I've listened to a few podcasts. I've got the book, but I haven't read it yet, but she's got some. Just to answer your question about the key to running a great workshop, but she has some beautiful ideas and important elements on when you're gathering with people and what makes it a special event or you know, what makes something a flop.
Oh, I would definitely have to check that out.
We are actually in the business book club. That's part of group coaching. We're rating setting the table. Have you read the whole thing?
Yeah, I haven't actually ever read it. People have recommended it so often, so I put it into the book club so that I could read it as well. But yeah, I think that's got a similar feel about everything needs to be from the second someone comes into a restaurant or even when they're booking to like them going home and talking about it and saying how fantastic it was.
Yeah, it's about developing a story that people can go and tell that that's that's part of the experience, isn't it? Yeah. And the other thing is creating a nice experience. So like if a corporate group came in, we would suggest that we could end the day for them with a couple of drinks and maybe a watercolour workshop or a plan a ceramics workshop or something like that. And so that when people leave, they've left with this warm and fuzzy feeling that they've done something really nice for themselves, that it's very different to potentially leaving a workshop with your colleagues and being like, oh my God, Darren said this and she said that.
Yeah. And I'll be overwhelmed with this list of these things you need to do as opposed to having left the meeting, having a good laugh and a chat with your friends and have done something really nice and slow and mindful.
Oh, I love that. And so you guys seem like you're naturally quite motivated and positive and chatty and all of the good things. One has kept you going through lockdown. And I fell before you mentioned, like, bring out all the mattresses into the living room and stuff it as a company. Like you said, you did have to close out of last year.
How did you stay motivated or how do you stay motivated? And I guess any tips, again, for anyone listening who's I know you've got lots of people in the event space service based businesses like photographies and wedding cake makers and people that are dependent on things being open. How have you stayed motivated?
That's been so hard for us because we are physical business like we aside from saying, oh, we can do the same thing for you, which of course no one needs. That was no way for us to turn that corporate side of the business into an online business. You could have and be like,hello, it's the brand.
But we just popped up at the start of every day just to have a chat. But we did the other I mean, of course, the obvious pivot for us as a workshop creative workshop space was to do online workshops. And I just talked about the site of Loch Ness Monster. And I'm like, I don't want to do it. It just it comes back to that being not authentic for us, even though that was such an easy pivot and people were doing it for on to stand and do the workshop separately in our own houses in front of a computer. That was not why we set up the Windsor workshop and we just stuck by our guns and decided that. We were not going to pivot into people we don't want to be and do things we don't want to do, and I think that worked for us. We did develop we did develop workshop kits that we sell to people to do at home. But that was sort of the opposite of an online workshop in that we sent them out to encourage people. The Friday up to the end of a week of meetings, you could actually turn off your computer and do this. And so it was a bit of an antidote to an online workshop. So we would put in the cocktail the chocolate, a beautiful little ceramic gift, and then we'd have these are written instructions and video instructions that you could actually use it to get off the screen, not stay on. And so I guess we again, I'm actually hating myself for using the word authentic again and again. It was we wanted to create the most real the wings of virtual experience in your home. And so that's why we included a beautiful something to eat, because that's what we do when you visit us in real life. That's why we included a curated cocktail to put in the kitsch, because we give you a glass of wine when you visit us in real life, when you come and do a workshop with us. We have made all of our ceramic coffee and tea cups and plates. They're all handmade for us in our branding colours. And so that was also a gift in the case because we wanted people to when they were drinking their cocktail, when they were going to have a cup of tea with while they did their natal kit, that they were drinking from this beautiful mug again, like what we would be offering in real life, the Windsor workshop. So, yes, there are a lot of kits for sale that we wanted to keep it as close to the experience that you would receive if you were coming to us in real life. Yeah. So that was a way for us to continue on the business. But again, I feel like we've moved away from the question. Yeah, I was going to say another thing that kept us motivated was we actually felt lucky that we had a bit of time to step away from the business and look at it from the outside in. We could get off the treadmill of working in it and we were able to get some clarity on what our values were in the business, what the purpose was, what we want to do and where we want to go in the next few years. So that, I think, kept us motivated because we had time to do that where we would normally have time to do that sort of thing. Yeah, that was really motivating. And to do your marketing course on the back of having spent so much time just thinking about where we wanted the business to hit, we were already motivated to. Come back with a bang and then doing your marketing cost is motivated us yet again, so that helped us get through lockdown, knowing that we were about as soon as we opened up, we had a very clear direction as to where we wanted to head and what we wanted to do. And we just had this. It was just like the clarity that we got from being locked down and not being at work was very beneficial for us. And I know that we were we were lucky. And I do feel like everyone was able to have that moment. But certainly for us, that kept us going. I think I'm just going to say, I mean, I know that I think it is worth mentioning here as well about staying motivated in that way because we're all creating some bracer. And I wanted to work as stiff, who's a graphic designer as well. One of the otherwise we stayed motivated was to keep doing what we love doing. And so we created this club with the four of us. I won't go into detail with that now because I'm sure it'll come up again. But yeah, that was motivating for us. It kicked creativity and arts and crafts in the forefront of our mind, and that was motivating as well.
Oh, I love all of those tips. Thank you so much for sharing them. And yeah, I think sometimes it really helps if you can have the space to get away from the day to day grind, even just physically away, like obviously look down. We all have to stay at home. But I know I've talked about it before in this club just as well like a friend and I the same friend that I'm with every week we go to a hotel sometimes or maybe we should come to the workshop and do it.
Yes, you definitely should.
I think getting out of the day to day can help you so much. And I guess you guys see this a lot with the culprits that kind of come in and they do the strategy planning or the off site strategy days. And for anyone who's listening, who doesn't really understand, what I'm saying is that off site strategy is usually quite a corporate thing, but more small businesses are starting to do them as well. It's where you would set up like one or two times a year and you would literally go off site and spend the entire time talking about your strategy, figuring out things. And it can be like a one day thing. It could be a whole week. Sometimes at places I've worked, the exact time is actually going away for three days together to regional areas, even overseas. In one place that I worked, which was really nice, I didn't go but even to spice up the Amazon. So, like, why do people do these, do you think? And why should they? Because I know they'll be small businesses listening to a lot. Well, I could just we could just stay in the boardroom, but we could just stay in the meeting room and do it ourselves. What do you think of the benefits of going somewhere else, like the Weinswig Shop or anywhere else to do your off site strategy planning dates? Like what have you seen from the people or the kind of feedback that you've gotten from people that have done that?
Well, nearly everyone that lives at the end of it, they're like, oh my God, that was the best. People were just thinking differently. We were behaving differently. People were saying things they normally wouldn't say. Also, we had no one knocking on our door, no fights, no emails, theming. So it just gives people a really good opportunity to completely have a different way of thinking. Yeah, I think so when you sort of if you're thinking of having that strategy by where you go off site, you need to be really clear with sort of what your outcomes are, what you what your goals are and what you want to come out of that day with so that it doesn't feel like you have to come outside and had a lovely vibe and you get back to work. You think, oh, shit, what what did we sort of cover then? So I think being clear about your goals and outcomes for the day really important. But we also see a lot of firms and whether this small, medium or large businesses hiring external facilitators to come in. And and maybe that would be to do some sort of, you know, personality testing or might be around how to build sort of resilience within your team or just these little things to get everyone working on the same page. And it's just a slight distraction or slight you just off the path to what you came to do, like not talking about your business or whatnot. But it will obviously help you run your business by having your employees learn a little bit more about each other. So I think in considering an external distillates heightened to run some sessions this year. Well, with that, would you not agree? I would definitely agree. And the other feedback might be the feedback we get is how delicious the lunch was. So we partnered with a lot of people in the local area like Coca-Cola or Yellowbird or journeymen. So we bring in a nice lunch or we arrange for them to donate and nearly everyone goes, oh my God, that lunch was amazing. So I think if you don't get in a boardroom, you know, when you get a soggy and we just venting at lunch time, the triangle thing, which is this is just such an upgrade. So you know, your stuff and what they're actually getting looked after and treated.
I couldn't think of anything better actually being in a room by myself, eating! Like you guys obviously help other people build their business. And I know from working with some people that have that run workshops out of your spaces and that's helping their small business. But what do you think has helped you both most with building The Windsor Workshop? Do you have any mentors? Obviously, you've mentioned my class (thank you!). Or even just like a mantra or is there any kind of ritual that you do that's really helped you with the business?
Can I say I. Well, we all did the office wide last year during lockdown and I was obsessed with Julia is like, I'll be talking about Julius's blah blah blah, when it's I like her. I'm like Julia Gillard become my guru. And in fact, there was something last night that someone else recommended it and they said, roll your eyes the whole way through it because that's what you do. But it is still life changing. And that's how I feel about it. Yeah, definitely. That was so lovely to do all together and what a perfect time to do something like that. He looked down on me and it was just the most brilliant way for us to connect and to also look at ourselves individually as far as our creative pursuits are concerned. Bri, what about this course that you did last year? I was going to say so as part of getting clarity on our vision and goals. We really want to make the business in a more sort of socially impactful way and make it as ethical as we can. And so I did a course with Leigh Matthews last year, which was on making a business the my most ethical it can be, and businesses that are doing good, helping them do better. And you studied your business ecosystem, but who your who your customers are and who your suppliers are and how to partner with people in the best way. So that for me has really helped form a vision and an idea of the things we'd like to do with the business. Definitely keen to have more of a social impact company. We've mentioned also the The Art of Gathering book previously. But I have to say, like just on a much more simple level and it's not really a mantra or anything, but when things seem very stressful, the going is tough. Sometimes Bree and I have to bring it back and go, wow, I mean, come on. I mean, so these people want that, right? It's not available and they're really aren't happy about it. But let's not get stressed about this. This is not surgery. This is not rocket science. Just bring it back to the most simplest of terms and realise that what we're doing is. I love what we do and the bringing together in the gathering of people is so important, but let's not get stressed out over the small stuff. And I know we talk about that a lot, but I do think you're building a business or running a business. You cannot sweat the small stuff. You have to put in perspective and move on and move forward, move through it and just try and on a scale, figure out where it sits and then and then just keep going.
Oh, my goodness. So many tips and advice and the links to the oddest way book and your friends in the show notes as well.
Yeah, that would be great. Can I say one more thing is that this is a shameless plug. The other thing is your book, The Passion, Purpose and Profit Book. However, we only, I think, got to Chapter two when we were reading it and we went, yes, this is so good. This is so good. Anyway, from about Chapter two, I just started looking at your Instagram and then you had you were literally doing a story that said enrolment's close next week. And I would like to just show you that. So we actually close the book. So I have something to tell from that business. We've already read one twelfth of something. It propelled us, your marketing business class, which, you know, has been completely life changing for our business. So, yeah,
Thank you so much. And I guess I'm going to do the awkward thing of asking you a question about the course, which I do not about, but I thought I will because enrolments are open. And if you're listening to this in real time, they close on the 10th of August for the marketing for your small business course and coaching programme. But I absolutely loved seeing you guys turn up every week and kind of get excited. Like, this is what we're doing and this is what we're doing. And and that's what I think is so great about the live coaching part, is that it's not just me. It's like all these other small business owners. And I felt like by the end of it, the people that were coming every week, I felt like you just really felt like a yeah, I could tell her this and she could tell me that. And I want her feedback on this. And I guess how did you feel going into it? Because I think that's one of the things like often we talk about the results and what people get out, but like, how did you feel going into it? Because, you know, it's not a small amount of money for some people. And like, what did you want out of it? And I guess what did you get out of it?
We made the decision to do the coaching because not necessarily because we wanted to do that, but we knew that if we had to be on a call every Tuesday at twelve o'clock, we could just say, we'll put this off this week and do it next week. So for us, it's having that accountability, accountability of knowing that we were going to have to front up and tell people whether we'd done the homework and what our plans were. So for us, that, I reckon was such an integral part of it. Yeah. And it was just so hands on as in doing everything you doing your marketing strategy every week is chipping away at it basically. And that is awesome, because as you do the course, what you come out with at the end is pretty much a marketing strategy. You just got to sit it down and so it all together. But I have to say, like, I was surprised at how easy you make it seem thinner, and because at the start we were like, well, what does she mean? We've got to do this and we don't know how do how do we put an end as each week went only to like, yeah, that's where that goes. And that's why that is important. But it really I mean, marketing has eluded us for so long. We have tried so many things and nothing's worked. And we just come out more confused than ever. And this was the only time and actually, I have to say for that reason, I mean, I probably did go into it thinking, oh, I hope is not going to be another one of those times where we put money into marketing, trying to figure out marketing and we come out, you confuse the absolute opposite has happened. This was the only time that brand I have spent money on marketing and it come out earlier than ever before. And we just so many light bulb moments throughout the course for us and our business. But we've just come out knowing exactly which direction we need to hit. Even with marketing. That has not happened in the five years that we've been in business. And as I said, we tried something like this is the first thing we've tried. I feel like we've gone down every avenue. And, you know, for me as well, it was not so much being clear and learning things. They gave me this renewed sort of passion for our business, like, oh, yeah, it's actually a really awesome business. And for the first time in a bunch of these are super excited about what we can do. It was always light bulb moments and these kinds of things that we could do that we thought of. Like I can see that is such potential to do so many. But I also think that that was I agree with you that I if I want to sort of just tie this all together as well, the marketing was almost like that last piece of the puzzle for us because we spent locked down and that time working on our business and just getting motivated about, OK, we've got time to slow down. We're not pivoting. We're not putting energy into trying to do something we don't want to do. We're just going to pause and we're going to figure out where we want to go and then to do the marketing course. It just it flowed really well for us and it worked to our advantage. And so if there is any point I can say from being in lockdown and that you do spend time working on your business and then back it up with the marketing course, if you are ignoring and considering, just do it the best thing ever.
Oh I like. So lovely. Thank you. Thank you. I'm just beaming over here and kind of I'm glad that we turned off because I've gone really red.
But if you're going to pick anyone to have an awkward conversation about doing a course, you pick the right people because either where you group everyone is. Exactly.
Thank you. Thank you. That's just like my whole my whole thing is that I want people to feel excited about marketing. And when I was running them in real life workshops, I love when people get to the end of the day and they're like, oh my God. And you'd see them at the start and they'd kind of come in being like my being. And then at the end, like, I totally get it. It's not this black magic I've thought it has been for so long.
Yeah. And I have to say, not that I want to sound like I keep telling you to come and run some other works with the works, but I like to keep doing that every week when we need the I need to come and do that here this year. Like I want people to experience this here and I want people to be able to do it in real life. And they them get excited by this idea that I am going to keep playing it. They're really fun. She's not joking. She she does mention it every week. I'm serious.
I need to I need to come over there. I just I have such an aversion to the punt road basically straight. No, I'm always like I can meet you at the edge of the Eastern Freeway, but I need to get out myself and come out. OK, thank you so much for sharing that. So in your business, you've talked about Slack, you talked about Studio Ninja. What other like tools or platforms could you just not live with that when it comes to the business now, whether it's trying to run it through lockdown or whether it's in person when you're there physically.
This is probably something we need to work on, these systems and platforms and stuff, because we sort of have this almost old school way of using a diary, the calendar on our computer. So that's the thing. Obviously, we need that for bookings and, you know, to not double book like I just did this morning and just to be on top of that. So we are getting better tools and platforms that we use slack. We try to use Asana a little bit for to do lists that sort of pops up and we'll go right into it for about three months and then forget that it even exists for about three years. Squarespace, only to make the website or we use sort of ticketing platforms like we teach main course, then we use they set out to get for us, which makes life easy because they do all the automatic reminders to students about how this is coming up and this is what you need to bring. And then and afterwards by remind them to give feedback. So it's so good using platforms like the flow. Is it five days go fly for our emails in flight esque instead of Miljan, which is nice because they have really good looking templates.
I've got started using them as well. They look very nice.
Yeah, they do. I don't know about it's probably not as functional as some of the others and we probably use it to its best ability. But it's just nice having a good looking email templates you don't have to think too much about. Yeah. Cuts down time on design doesn't.
Yeah, and I guess this just goes with the whole brand and you're going out to appealing largely to creative and people who really that design and things like that. And so I guess this is always like a tricky question, because sometimes people will say absolutely nothing, which is totally fine. But is there anything that you would have done differently if you were starting the business now together?
Yeah, I think I think we've sort of almost entered this before in that, like I think assigning strong roles. I think that probably would have helped us a clean marketing plan that would have also helped, but we wouldn't have to do it as well. No, no, no. Exactly. I guess those two things would have made it a little bit easier or not not easier. But you know what else?
It is hard sometimes because you learn so much from the journey itself.
Yes, I was going to say that. I was going to say that it's more as you start, you have all of these really great intentions and you think you know exactly how it's going to be done. And then on day one, you're like, wow, let's put that in the being that didn't work or that's not going to work. So it's a hard question because I think it does evolve. Well, he's a bit of a funny story, actually. When we started, we literally just started thinking we were doing creative workshops. And about a week before our work workshop, I remember we're in the car like, what if we can't sell enough tickets? I'm not literally going to get to us from where we started and then, you know, a few weeks and we're like just doing creative workshops probably. Is it going to be enough? And then we're like, and this at the end, the whole week. So it was actually wasn't even after we started to realise that the whole one of the main components of our business airport. So we probably would have done much differently, like we thought about lot of what the business plan should have been done differently. Think it was a completely different business where we started doing all those things. We always hindsight. My husband and I decided to have a business. When we're in London, we've run lots of different businesses together. And we were like, yeah, we're going to make cushions for like really cool restaurants. And we got basically because my friend Marrawah was like friends with this guy and he wanted 60 Kushan. So we made sixty cushions and cushions. I like the whole brand name. We talked about the vision with all this stuff. And then we were on our way to a fabric wholesaler in London and I was doing the maths on my phone and I was like,
Oh, how many questions about just like, oh well, we'd have to make like dozens of cushions and what are we doing? And we literally got to the fabric hall. So I think I just bought some fabric for myself, but I was like, yeah, now this is not the way it could be. Now you'd have a cushion.
And I know I know we often talk about doing a product to you that one day, maybe one day, but talking about you guys and your business. But what do you both kind of proud of running the winter workshop together so far?
I think we do a really good job of mastering the work life balance. I'm really proud of how we do that and we haven't fallen into a trap of feeling like we need to really bust apples to make it work. I think we do the work life balance really well. We laugh a lot, which I'm very proud of, because that to me is what gets you through what else we've done. We did a beautiful exhibition a few years ago, Foxcroft Keep, and it was sort of before we really knew how to promote it. And I think we do it really differently now. But it was nice before exhibition. We had a sort of floating, hanging pieces that different artists had contributed to and we sold them and raised money for the SLC. And that was like we didn't get a great response from it. But still, it's such a beautiful thing and I was really happy to be able to raise that money. So for me, that's one of the proudest things we've done. Yeah, I agree. Well, I'm proud of the fact that we built in a short time, we built a business that enabled us to come back to it time and time again, like we've got these loyal clients. And yes, we've worked hard at that. But I still feel like I'm proud of the fact that it's it's you and I who built that loyalty. And yeah, I mean, that really helps. And I and I love that it's a word of mouth business. And so I'm proud of the fact that people go in such strong, positive stories about us that they want to come back and and make other people come as well. Yeah, the feedback we get from the workshops is always like, you know, particularly mind blowing, isn't it? Because you're like, oh, we've we've given this person this experience like people to send to us. I was still buzzing, but, you know, two days out. So that was short. So that's such a nice thing to be able to provide for people.
And I just feel like I actually started my whole business based on the workshop. I went to a workshop and it was like an hour long. And just one question that the facilitator asked. I was like, oh my God, that just slipped something in me. And I was like, that's my God, I'm standing. But it's like, oh, yeah, yeah. So you just said, like, create your ideal life. And then I write it down and then she's like, Why aren't you living it? And I was just like, yeah, why I'm living it.
It's not that. Wow. Yeah.
You never know what goes on in it. And so speaking of workshops, obviously people can get in touch with you on is Instagram this is it going to the window except dot com, is it finding you over on social media at the window up or when is the best way for them to connect with you and find out the workshops that you're running, as well as how they potentially could come in and be the 11th or more person to work full time in the coworking space website.
It's probably the best that we keep that most up to date with our listings. Having said that, we're pretty excited because we're going to do a big rebrand and a big refresh. So as soon as we can get ten minutes to break high up on our list is to refresh all of that. So, yeah, but in the meantime, it's still got all the information you need. So I reckon the website that Instagram we keep you updated with all our workshops and information is.
Oh, awesome.
And so what's next for you both? Like you mentioned, the big rebrand, is anything else happening that people should be aware of or anything else you want to mention? Is there ever so?
I think I've mentioned this about 50 times, but it's really important that we we want to work more closely with nonprofits, whether we offer the space to them or we run particular workshops just making more of a social impact. We might look at becoming a Bakool, that sort of thing, at the same time window you're looking into sort of curating. And we want to diversify and expand what we offer creatively. So that's exciting stuff. We want to talk about our retreat alinda. Yes, we are actually days away from launching our first retreat. So this will be a one day retreat full of so much goodness and that is ever expanding. And so obviously our retreats will include a creative element, but we want to sort of do more than that. And I am as I said, we'll be launching that in a couple of days. We've got our first one coming up. And then it's just sort of yeah, it will keep going from there.
Oh, my goodness. And this is exciting.
So this podcast will be coming out on Thursday, the 5th of August. So is that going to be will this retreat be available for people? Yes. Yes. So make sure you definitely get on over to Instagram and the website, the intellectual platforms.
Yes, absolutely. That gives us a deadline to make sure we have a list on there if we need that push. But it's going to be amazing because we're going to be doing things like actually making our own time. You're going to have a little handmade ceramic palette to take home. We're going to be unlocking your creativity and storing and sketching workshops. It's going to be amazing.
Oh, I love that so much. And someone who was on the podcast recently continuing from Halo Human in New York, she was saying that because of covid, there's just this huge surge in people wanting to be more creative and get out that creativity that they're not necessarily getting from not being around people or chatting or being able to just sort of draw and doodle and everything. Everything's like on video, watching you all the time.
Yeah, our treat will be like about two, three workshops in one, like literally. So what we would offer in one workshop, we'll cover that in an entire day plus more. So it's a really well-rounded day for creativity and we're limiting it to because it doesn't want to as much as we'd love to have, you know, twenty five or thirty people come, we're limiting it to twelve people. So it will be this beautiful, intimate group of people. So it's going to be so good.
I'm excited for it. And I've seen from when you'll note about all the different things and it just sounds incredible, like it sounds like one of the moments that you'll go to something and you'll come back and you'll just totally have your take on things. So.
Well, that's how you find. Well, thank you so much for coming onto the podcast. We're giving your time so generously and just being such wonderful, upbeat people. It's lovely to be in your presence.
Oh, thank you. Thanks for having me. Yeah. Thanks for having us.
Oh, you're so welcome. Bye.
Oh, how lovely, Bree and Bel, I could have just talk to them for hours and hours and hours, they're just so fun to be around and really interesting people and they've both done such interesting things in their own lives before coming together to do the Windsor workshop as well, and as well as Sarah Hankinson sister, who is an artist and part of their crew over at The Windsor Workshop. I would love to know what resonated from my conversation with Bree and Bel today. Most for you in your business, whether you have one with your scaling one or whether you're just thinking of starting one. I had so many, so many kind of light bulb moments, but two things that really stood out for me.
One was to make it an experience, regardless of what you're doing in your business. If you're putting on events, if you're not, if you're putting a campaign together, just really think about it as an experience. You want people to not just, you know, be there physically for the couple of hours that maybe you're running an event or a class, but to keep being there in their memories of that because the experience is just that good.
And I love that they talked about just being so hands on and really personalising things so people don't feel like, “Oh, I'm just running up to a coworking space that's very anonymous and no one really talks to each other. It's just really a beautiful community that you get to be part of if you're coming to this coworking space. And as someone who has run so many workshops at various different places, I can definitely say that it might seem like a normal thing. But lots of the places that I've gone to run workshops or classes aren't always that personal. And sometimes you don't have that really beautiful touch with people. So I loved that idea of making an experience. And I guess if you're listening and you're thinking about something that's coming up, some sort of connection point that you have between you and the audience for your brand, then think about “Am I just doing it to tick a box or am I making it an actual experience? How am I giving somebody enough to work on that?” They take this away as a memory for forever. So I love that.
The second thing that really stood out to me was them talking about the different audience segments that they have and kind of pulling back and instead of thinking they're so different, really look at the similarities. So for them, they were looking at, regardless of who comes in, whether it's people coming in the coworking space, whether it's someone coming to do a creative workshop, whether it is somebody running the creative workshop or if it's, you know, a bigger brand coming in to do an offsite strategy session, they're all getting connection. That's the thing that keeps them together. So, a lot of that just talked about it so simply but we can feel like such a hard thing to do when you have various audiences that you talk to with your product or service or both. And I love that they kind of took a step back and thought, what's the end result for all of these different people and brands and businesses that interact with us? What are they walking away with? And what they're walking away with is this deep sense of connection.
So I absolutely love that. And I think it's something that so many small business owners I know listening to this will take that and be like, “Oh, okay, that's how I could bring everything together, you know, really thinking what if they all got in common rather than thinking, “Oh my gosh, my audience is so different, there's no way that I can market to all of them or I need to have four different Instagram accounts.” I love that. They just so simply put it that, you know, really think about the bigger picture and the end result.
So I would love to know from you what you most took away from this. And I'm sure that Bree and Bel would love to know it as well. So don't be a stranger. Come and send me a DM over at Instagram. I'm at @mydailybusinesscoach. And of course, I'm sure the lovely women from The Windsor Workshop would love to hear from you as well. So you can reach them over on Instagram at @thewindsorworkshop, all one word and their website is thewindsorworkshop.com.
And of course, we will leave to that in the show notes. The other thing that we will link to is the Marketing For Your Small Business Course and Coaching program. And it was just so lovely to hear from Bree and Bel as to, you know, how they changed, what sort of shifts they had in their business and in terms of their relationship with marketing after going through that course and coaching program.
So it is available for enrolments until the 10th of August 2021. And you can find all the information over at marketingforyoursmallbusiness.com. The course is actually online and it's available any time at marketingforyoursmallbusiness.com. But a few times a year we do run the coaching program in addition. So you actually get through the course and you have so much feedback and so much support from everybody in the group as well as myself. So that is it for today's interview episode. I took so much from it. Just like I said, that is such a beautiful presence to be around. And if you are in Melbourne, you're looking for coworking space, definitely check out The Windsor Workshop or if you're looking for, you know, a really cool class creative thing that you can get into, maybe you really want to get out of the house after lockdown. No. 575 and do something creative. Then, yes, check out thewindsorworkshop.com.
The links to The Windsor Workshop, the links to the Marketing for Your Small Business Course and Coaching Program and anything else mentioned, the great books that they mentioned today are all available in our show notes, which are at mydailybusinesscoach.com/podcast/122 as this is episode 122.
If you found this useful, definitely go back and binge on the 121 episodes prior. And if you did find it useful I would absolutely love it. If you might have just a second to leave us a quick review on Apple podcast. It just really, really helps us get found by other small business owners across the globe. Thanks so much for listening. I'll see you next time. Bye. Thanks for listening to my daily business podcast. If you want to get in touch, you can do that at mydailybusinesscoach.com or hit me up on Instagram at @mydailybusinesscoach.
Thanks for listening to the My Daily Business Coach podcast. If you want to get in touch, you can do that at mydailybusinesscoach.com or hit me up on Instagram at @mydailybusinesscoach.
