Episode 144: The Importance of Embracing Yourself Better During The Tough Days, with Jerico Mandybur, Coach, Author, and Tarot Reader
In this interview episode, Fiona has a chat with Jerico Mandybur, a creativie coach, best selling author and a professional tarot reader who recently moved back to Australia during the pandemic to start her own business. In this interview, Jerico talks about her diverse and interesting career, starting by writing online and then being headhunted by Sophia Amoruse, why she does tarot reading, and what she's discovered about herself recently that have helped her embrace herself more today. Enjoy this episode!
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Episode transcript:
In my understanding any kind of emotional resonance, or energetic resonance, or like we said, like those values, those meanings, that's all within the realm of, you can't measure that you can't put a value on that. It's our imagination, it's extra physical. And so that's kind of as much of a part of our business, if not more, then all the stuff that we actually like can really map out and put in a spreadsheet.
Fiona
Hello and welcome to Episode 144 of the My Daily Business Coach podcast. Today, it is an interview episode. And I'm really excited about the guest. And I'll get into that in a second. Before I do, I wanted to acknowledge the traditional owners and custodians of the land on which I'm fortunate enough to record this podcast, and the land, which has just, you know, nourished me through so many ups and downs, especially the last two years. But yeah, there Wurundjeri people of the Kulin nation, and I pay my respects to their Elders past, present and emerging, and acknowledge that sovereignty has never been seated.
I also just wanted to do a reminder, I know had a couple of people contact us since the last episode went live, where we talked about mini course on Systems and Processes, you can find that and all of our other short and long courses over at mydailybusinesscoach.com/shop, the reason that we sort of highlighting the systems and processes and money mapping courses at the moment is just because the time of year I know a lot of people either rolling into the final quarter of the year, and that's often maybe the biggest quarter for them in terms of financials and everything else and structures. And also people are planning for 2022 as much as anyone can plan with the current world environment. And so they're looking at what offers do I want to have next year? Will I you know, bring in a new category? What will the systems look like? What if I hire people, if we're going back into working face to face? What does that look like? Who else do I need? And so those two courses, Money Mapping, and Seven Steps to Create Quality Systems and Processes will really help you regardless of where you're at. But they will make sure that as you step into the new year, you really understand where does my money come from? Which of my offerings are most profitable? How do they align with my values and beliefs in the way that I want to run my business. And then if you were to take their systems and processes course, as well, you'll really be able to set up the systems and processes that work for you. So that even if you're going to hire people, you have them coming into a place where they're set up to succeed, because the systems and processes are there to support them.
So again, if you wanted to grab those or any of other courses, or you know, even 1:1 coaching, you can find that at mydailybusinesscoach.com/shop. Alright, let's get into today's interview episode.
So a little context or I guess, introduction of how I came into contact with today's guest. So earlier this year, probably late last year, I sort of felt cold to be doing more of the things I used to do way back in the day. So in terms of health and wellness, and kind of spirituality and energy. And so I have always been very spiritual. I grew up in a very spiritual household, I used to, you know, read the Dalai Lama books when I was like, you know, 19 I got super into conversations with God, when I was 21. I used to do meditation at uni. I've always been interested in that and in energy and in healing and, and those sorts of things. And years ago, before my dad passed away, I actually made him come and see a medium, and it was fascinating. It was just absolutely mind blowing. And my dad, he was just like, Whoa, and my parents grew up in a very kind of religious country. And I would say that it was the spirituality rather than religion. That was really big in our upbringing.
And so anyway, this year, I decided, you know what, I'm going to do a whole bunch of things. So I saw an energy healer in the US. I had a tarot reading, I started seeing a kinesiologist past life regression workshop tapping, which I'd done tapping for a couple of years now. And I do find it useful, but doing it, you know, with a teacher, all sorts of things. And so, tarot was in there, and I had been following Jerico Mandybur who is my guest for a little bit of time on Instagram. That's how I had come across her. And I contacted Jerico, because she does do tarot readings, and tarot sessions. And so I booked in, I had no idea what to expect. I have had these done before years years ago, when I was 21. living in London, used to get this done quite a bit. I even had like a stranger come in to where I was working and sort of say I feel compelled to redo your fortune and, and so I found it fascinating. And this year, I thought, yep. Okay, so I invested in a tarot session with Jerico. And it was absolutely wonderful. Like it was just really heartfelt, really spot on. And just the way that it was delivered, it was just very unique and innovative. And I just, I really, really appreciated that time. And so, so much. So that actually gifted it to a couple of friends as their birthday presents, because I was like this is I really enjoyed this, I felt really positive. Afterwards, I felt like my energy was boosted. And I just felt like a connection with this person. And so I actually then, you know, did a bit more research and was like, you know, who is Jerico, Mandybur and found this fascinating CV. And it's just fascinating career that you don't necessarily get a sense of straightaway. Because I think Jerico is a very humble, honest, just wonderful individual. It's almost like that person that you would meet, say, at a party or a barbecue or something. And you'd be like, they were just incredible.
And then you find this other stuff out and you're like, Oh my god, it's like layer of incredible against layer of incredible. So I just absolutely had to invite them on to the podcast. And I was so honored that she said yes. And so yeah, today's podcast episode is with Jerico Mandybur. And I know that my intro about tarot reading may have made you think, well, that's what she does. But it's so much more than that.
So Jerico Mandybur is actually a creative coach. And more than that, she works with people on everything from brand tone of voice, brand strategy, editorial calendars, through to Who are you as an actual person and what is going to spark joy and ignite your fire inside yourself to get back to who you really are. And the reason that I guess it might sound interesting to people that "Oh, she does Tarot, but she also does editorial calendars." is that Jerico is career as we talk in today's podcast episode is so diverse and interesting. So she started off in writing online. And she worked for places like Mashable, and was the editor at Oyster, everyone in Australia will know what I'm talking about there and worked at all these different places, and actually was headhunted by Sophia Amoruso herself, as people will know behind Nasty Girl and Girlboss to come over to LA and help set up the girlboss media. And so Jerico, as she explains, kind of it wasn't the right fit at one point. And then Sophia got in touch again. And it was and she sort of felt like everything had been aligned for her to move. So she moved to LA. And as she talks about, started this really interesting company that is so well known that she was one of the first people in there with Sophia starting it and interviewing just incredible people like Dr. Esther parral, and so many others. And so really made a name for herself, internationally, had a podcast had all the stuff and was writing and leading editorial teams and writing from places like the New York Times, Vogue, The Guardian, you know, Pop Sugar, MTV, Dazed and Confused, SPS and so many other places. And at the start, I think it's the start of the pandemic, or it's shortly after Jerico decided to make the move back home.
And anyone that's done that outside of a pandemic knows how much effort and heartache and struggle, anticipation is involved with making a move across the world. I know I have done it twice. I have lived in London twice and come back and it's huge. It's a huge thing emotionally it's a huge thing financially, it's a huge thing, just you know energetically with moving all that stuff. And that's outside of a pandemic. And so in this episode, Jerico who also is an award-winning author, I should mention discusses what it was like to move In the middle of a pandemic, why she's built the business that she has and also dives into some things that she's discovered about herself recently that have made a lot more sense of the way that she has always been and have enabled her to really embrace who she is. And by doing so, I think, you know, empower and inspire so many other people to embrace who they really are as well. So it's my absolute honor to bring you this interview with Jerico Mandybur. Like I said, she is an author as well. So if you want to check out the books, we will put them into the shownotes, but they are Neo Tarot, Daily Oracle and Pleasure Oracle, and we'll link to all of those in the shownotes. But here it is. my interview with Jerico Mandybur.
Welcome to the podcast Jerico. How are you feeling about life right now?
Jerico
Hello. Really great to be here. By the way, thank you for asking me. Oh, you're welcome. I am feeling pretty hopeful about life. I've got a little bit of a momentum in terms of productivity over the last couple of weeks. And I think it's because I did move house and now I have this like dedicated office space that's much more quiet and conducive to focus than I've ever had before. So it's all feeling very luxurious. I'm in Sydney, as we were just saying before we started recording, and so I am in lockdown. And that is a bummer overall. But I'm trying to, you know, make the best of it and moving house and having a bit more space. And spaciousness just to kind of be creative and go with the flow day by day is really helpful with that. So yeah, I'm feeling pretty optimistic and excited for the rest of the year, because it's going to get warmer.
Fiona
Yes. And what a great place to start a conversation being optimistic. One of my bosses years ago said to me, always start any conversation or meeting with the same energy that you want to have leaving it. I love that. So I use it. Every time I do group coaching or anything. I'm like, Okay, let's just get the energy that we want to leave this with. So I think it's a great place to be when you're optimistic and hopeful. So thanks for bringing that energy in. My pleasure. So given we are in like you said, you're in lockdown. I'm in Melbourne, I'm in lockdown. And we are in this seemingly relentless life with COVID How has it impacted your life and your your business Really?
Jerico
Oh, in so many ways. Before COVID I was gonna paint you a picture. I was in LA. And I'd been there for four years with my partner and that dog, and I was coaching and doing Tarot and a bit of consulting. But my kind of day job as it were, which was really just like, very part time, but my financial anchor in my life was working on like random freelance projects related to like copywriting and ghost writing. And so when COVID happened, that all fell through, it was just completely put on hold. And at the same time, my visa had expired, and I had applied for a new one. So it was in process. So I didn't have to leave the country per se. I could have stayed there as long as I needed to while it was in process, but I wasn't able to work while it was being processed. And they couldn't tell me if it would take a month, six months a year, like what was going on the whole thing just shut down. And so yeah, when that happened, when I lost that work, I was like, Okay, well, I've got like two weeks to leave the country, I guess. And my partner had to stay because as you probably know, Australia's customs relations around animals are very strict. That took like seven months of paperwork and vaccinations and everything just to get the dog over. So me and my partner were separated for several months, I came back to Sydney, and kind of like I was working in seven months, I was really enjoying offering like I was doing a lot of like brand identity and Tony tone of voice work for small businesses in Australia. And that was really exciting. So it's getting a lot done, but I was also just kind of in a holding pattern in life because I was like, my fiance's not here. Our wedding was canceled. I was living with flatmates. Again, it was just like being back at square one as if I'd never left and built this life for myself. So it was a real kind of a whiplash moment. Also because of my kind of emotional response to all of this change, and being already being really burnt out from previous full time jobs that I've had, which I had left, but like we're still kind of healing from it. I was finding myself being really like, yeah, just completely shut. And my call emotionally and really exhausted, really unable to focus on all these things are kind of coming up. And I didn't know why. And so after getting like a trillion tests that took hours, various doctors and assessments and everything, that's when I learned that I was autistic and had ADHD, which I already knew that ADHD part. So that was another kind of big bomb that dropped and it wouldn't have had none of that wouldn't happen if it wasn't for COVID. So that really kind of came in and like shook up my Well, you know, like everyone was talking, at least you know, whether this Taro or like, spiritual community, everyone was talking about 20 years of tower year, it very much was, for me it like shook the whole foundations of my life, and left me with like, only what was most important, and I'm really happy that it all happens. Because I know more about myself, I'm back in a place that I love where I'm, you know, a short walk around the beach, I have this beautiful nature and inspiration, the place that I'm from, and that raised me, I've got my fiance and my puppy back. I'm bringing in the clients that I want now. And realigning all these kind of various energies in my business and in my life. So it really has felt for the best. But it's just kind of so wild, how we don't really address like our priorities and what we really want and who we really are until like, shit hits the fan, right? And I feel like that's happened to so many people. Like I saw a statistic the other day, and it was like 76% of people, like in the last 18 months have realized they don't like their career. And so yeah, it's it's been a revelation both good and bad. But here we are.
Fiona
Here we are, indeed. And oh, my goodness, so much in that answer, like from the dog. I moved from London years ago with our dog. And I was in the same thing where I didn't realize it took six months of lack testing every week and all this stuff. It's such that just that alone, let alone a pandemic, let alone leaving your partner. This stuff is huge. So and then the finding out you're autistic. What did that do? Like? Did it? Did it change things? Were you like, Oh, now I can understand why this and this happens? Was it? Did you go into like a research hole of Okay, how can I change this? Or that? Or was it just okay, there's some validation. Now, I know why this and this has happened.
Jerico
Truly, all of the above, I felt like a weight was totally lifted. And a lot of things clicked into place that just had never made sense before in my life, you know, because I'd been to therapists and counselors and been on medication, especially like, in my early 20s, I tried so many things, and nothing really, like felt like it clicked, you know. And so the biggest thing was just like, I felt Wow, like, I'm not broken, you know, there's nothing wrong with me, like, my brain just works slightly differently. And it actually comes with all these great qualities. And I looked back on, like, all these memories, and like how I was as a kid, and I was like, wow, I actually feel like, I finally made sense of the movie, you know what I mean? It's like in the matrix, I'm like, neosmart, seeing, seeing all the code and everything. Yeah, like, you've got X ray goggles on, and you're like, Oh my gosh, like I get it now. So that was really helpful. And because that was really enthusiastic and feeling really kind of positive about what that kind of insight was bringing me I did also do a hectic amount of research. Because, you know, people in our age group, like, we didn't even hear about this stuff growing up, like the first time I heard about Asperger's, which is what I kind of diagnosis that I was kind of officially given, although they did caveat that that's not a that's not actually a diagnosis anymore. It's not in the DSM five anymore. It's all under the umbrella of the autism spectrum. Now, the first time I heard about that was from the lead singer of the vines in high school, if you would say, you know, that guy, he has Asperger's, and I really am. So I didn't really know what that means. And, you know, you have these stereotypes in your mind, like Rain Man and stuff. And then you think, well, I'm a 36 year old adults, and I was raised a woman, like my experience doesn't look anything like these stereotypes. And so because I went through all this research, I realized, yeah, like, it shows up in different ways. It's a very different experience for people assigned female. And those stereotypes are just that and that, that research and that kind of other side of it is really only in the last few years, like just coming up. And that's why we're seeing like more and more older people getting a late diagnosis because maybe they were overlooked as kids because of their gender or because of some other factors, you know, race class, whatever. Just access to like a doctor who cared enough to ask better questions. Yeah, so I'm really passionate about it. And it's really cool. And it has also been a bit of like a grieving process because you have so many thoughts of like, oh God, if I had addressed this sooner, like, How different would my life be like, I had to go through so much hardship to get to this point. And like, I wish that I had been able to take the easy route instead of this hard route. Yeah, that's the flip side of celebrating that now we do know. And now things do make sense. And so yeah, my experience has been like, ultimately, like, really, really positive. But it's come with so much processing and emotional work, just to come to grips with the fact that my needs weren't met. And I was in situations where I was overlooked. And I did have to do things the hard way, and it sucks, you know. So it's a very weird, interesting, kind of nuanced place to be where you're like, Yay, but you're also like, no. If that makes sense.
Fiona
That completely makes sense. I'm wondering, have you read the book Late Bloomer?
Jerico
Oh, my gosh, no, but I'm so excited to I really love ambassadors, but and my partner is a friend or like an ex, work colleague of theirs. So there's like a personal connection. And yeah, it's it's on my book list. I've been dying to get to it.
Fiona
Yeah, I haven't read it either. I've got it on the list as well. But I've heard from people that it's just incredible. And I think you're probably like the fourth person I've come across in the last few months that has had or, you know, you're obviously saying it to me today, when whenever it happened, but I think women and those assigned women at birth like that, it just goes unnoticed. For
Jerico
It a bsolutely does. It really does. Yeah. And because we're already so highly trained to perform in a certain way until, like, fake things, you know, and we're also taught to kind of look out for like emotional and social cues from other people to kind of fit into their expectations of us in this way that like boys aren't. And so we pass we just pass through and nobody's unless we're like, hugely disruptive, which obviously happens with people with high support needs to really challenged in like traditional classrooms. Unless we're like, at that point. It's just Yeah, they they just think, oh, that that little girl's a daydreamer, or she's a bit quirky.
Fiona
Totally, it's so interesting, that I've heard of so many people where it's gone undiagnosed, for so long, so good on you for, I guess, persevering to get answers, as well. I guess there's a lesson in that, regardless of what the challenge or health concern might be.
Jerico
Yeah, totally. It's interesting, because I've always just kind of asked for, like, professional help if I like really, really needed it. But this, I mean, there was a genuine need, because I wasn't responding well to all the change that was going on. But it was also more just that I was motivated to like, get answers. I was like, I'm absolutely sick of this. I'm at that point. I was 34. So it's like, yeah, 34 like, I've got to take matters into my own hands. Like I want answers, you know, and it wasn't until I really got into that place of like, determined self advocacy that I was able to do that.
Fiona
Yeah, and that's such a just that self advocacy. It's like sometimes you need to be your biggest cheerleader yourself, as well for these things. And you mentioned before when you were mentioning coming from LA back to Sydney, did you go straight back to Sydney? Or did you live somewhere? Yeah, you mentioned that you were doing some freelancing and like working with people on their brand strategy and kind of tone of voice document and things I have given a little bit of a intro into your business and sort of how I came across you but I'd love for anyone who is not already a fan I'm sure there'll be a whole bunch more after this for you to describe what it is that your business offers and and how you describe what you do because you do so many different interesting things.
Jerico
Yeah, I really do. Well, I think the reason that I love to call myself a creativity coach first and foremost is because I feel like getting encapsulates all the, you know, overlapping Venn diagram circles of what actually do. So I have this content, media writing background, like I was journalist, I was an editor and editorial director, bureau chief, like I just had this hardcore editorial career for a number of years. And so writing has always been my passion. I've kept a journal since I was 12. I'm just like, well The lifelong rider. And as I got older, I went, I reverted back to my interest in spirituality that had always been there, but was very closeted. And so I started being much more open about that. I picked up tarot in a really big way. And after a couple of years, I was, you know, doing readings and things like that. I was still in media at that point, but I was also a tarot reader. And then I got into coaching, because I wanted to offer more in my readings just in terms of being able to have like, a really productive dialogue with my Tarot clients about where they were at and where they wanted to be in terms that were really empowering. And that put their kind of choices back in their hands and work with them in like a longer term way if they were up there. And so yeah, basically, I was trained in coaching, because I wanted those skills, you know, I just wanted better people skills to be able to hold space and ask powerful questions and be that accountable mirror for people, because, you know, it's interesting, like, I would say, the majority of people overall that like seek a tarot reading is because they want to be told what's going to happen, or like, what should I do? whereas my readings are all about, like, kind of uncovering what the truth is around, like, what do you want to do. So I really love that approach. But then I just like really fell in love with coaching as well. And you know, some people wanted me to incorporate Tarot into working with them, but other people didn't. And so I was just kind of working with people on whatever they brought to me under the umbrella of spirituality. And then to be totally honest with you, referring to myself as a spiritual coach didn't feel right, because I kept finding in like, the calls that I was having with people that there was something in that that was too vague. And it meant that some people were coming to me when they were kind of in crisis, and like not probably not in the best place to be getting coached. Or they were looking for some kind of formula like meditate every morning from 6am till 6:30am. Yeah, and I do not like telling people what to do.
Jerico
And again, like, that's not empowering. I don't know best, like, I'm not a guru. So I started thinking, Okay, like, what do my clients that I get the most out of working with, and they get the most out of working with me have in common. And I realized the real creatives, like they were truly honest, you know, there were people that were passionate about whatever they were doing, whether it was like poetry, or filmmaking, or design work, or even just like starting businesses, but doing it in a way that was, you know, the core value was like authenticity and showing up and getting out of their own way to like, speak their truth and communicate in a way that was as aligned with their soul really, as possible. And so we were spending a lot of time on that. And so I was like, even though I haven't been calling it that I've been a creative coach, I'm doing great 3d coaching this whole time. And that really felt freeing exciting to me, because it made me realize that I haven't done this full blown career pivot where like, I used to be a journalist and an editor, and now I'm a coach.
Jerico
It's the same kind of evolution. I've always been working on authenticity, self expression, storytelling, like all the things that are common among, you know, creative practices. So that's kind of what got me to the point where I am now where I do one on one coaching, that's creative, focused, I do tarot reading and most of my tarot reading clients have some kind of creative project as well, that they're working on are there people who are just like, really interested in thinking laterally about tarot. So that's really cool. And then I still do brand decks and identity and tone of voice and, you know, mission statements and values and those kinds of things as well when people hit me up for that. So even though they're all different things, they all come down to like people's self expression, people's joy, living a life where you really feel lit up from the inside and truly, truly alive in the moment. So like my three core pillars in my business, power presence in play, and I think that sums it up like I don't care about making six figures and all that stuff, not because it's not important to plenty of people in the world. But what makes me happiest as a business owner is getting people to a place where they can just fully experience joy and liberate themselves from any sense of pressure or perfectionism in the present moment because for me, like the process, the presence of It all is like all that matters. Like, we can all start, like all the businesses and all the creative ventures in the world. But if you're not enjoying the process, because you're too busy, like future tripping about what the outcome is going to be, it's not going to be any less painful than the corporate world, or whatever other alternatives or things you were doing before. So yeah, I just try and coach from a place of feeling, you know, how do I want to feel every morning when I wake up? Oh,
Fiona
I love, love all that I was just like, yes, yes. Say, yeah, I just I feel the same. And I feel like so many times when I when people are like, Oh, you know, your testimonials, or whatever I'm like, the best feedback ever, is when people say, I've fallen in love with my business again. And I'm like, Oh, that's what you want. That is like my whole thing. Because I just think, yeah, there's a million, you know, you can go to a financial advisor who can be like, great, you can get to $2 million. But it's like this, then you, you see countless, like entrepreneurs who have done the whole own 10 million. And now I'm doing this because I was burnt out and horrible and hated it. And I'm not saying you know, there's lots of people who earn good money, and also really happy. But I feel like a lot of the time people are so focused on this is the destination, I want to be here in three years, as opposed to, like, you've got, you know, if you're gonna be there in three years, you've got like, 1000 days, between now and then, and you've got two days as well,
Jerico
You've got to enjoy those days. I love that. And there's this study that I always refer to, and I think it kind of does feel stretchy or crunchy for people who are really big subscribers to like, abundance, and the more I make, the more I can help and all that stuff. And I do feel it's absolutely space for that. And if that's your truth, congrats, but this study that was done was basically all around like the hypothesis of like this more money buy you more happiness. And it found that the average kind of baseline of happiness of what make people feel content, comfortable at ease peaceful in their life, was 75k a year. And any more than that did not bring more happiness. In fact, it actually brought more stress, because there's more responsibilities attached to higher incomes. And so again, you know, like, if that resonates great, and if it doesn't just leave it at the door, but like, isn't that interesting that we always think like, Well, when I get to this point, everything's gonna fall into place, and I'm finally going to be, you know, happy or proud or in love with my business. But it's like, no, like, what are you doing now? Like, what do you have control over now what's the next right action, rather than thinking this some kind of finish line you're going to get to where suddenly something external is going to make you feel a certain way internally, because it's the reverse?
Fiona
Oh, I could not agree with you more. And like a couple of years ago, my father passed away. And at that time, my mom had passed away, and my dad was in a nursing home near me, and I was visiting him all the time. And I had helped him sell his house with my, with my other siblings, and the money had come through the settlement. And I remember like, signing into the bank on his iPad with him, and I was like, Dad, like, Look, oh, my God, like, this is more money than you've ever dreamt of. And he because he'd come from quite humble beginnings and everything. And I was like, What do you want to do? Do you want to like, go and buy a stupid watch? Do you want to, like, you know, go and get a penthouse in the city? Like, like, like, let's do something crazy. And the reality was that his health was so bad that he was like, I can't, I can't drive anymore. I can't go on a plane. You know, if I went into a hotel, I'd have to bring all my breathing apparatus like, and he literally said, Can you go and buy a case, let's go. Let's go buy a case of whiskey because he's like, I've always thought it very well. I have a whole case of whiskey. But I will remember that moment of going, like, it doesn't change things. If the rest of your life is a certain way. More Money isn't necessarily going to make everything better. And it also made me Don't wait till the end of your life to my dad had done lots of great things in his life. So it wasn't like he was waiting, waiting. But I think a lot of people put like what you said their whole life on hold until x y z happens?
Jerico
Mm hmm. Absolutely. Yeah. Oh, that's that's a beautiful lesson and experience. Thank you for sharing that.
Fiona
I love it. Yeah, you're welcome. It was a really amazing lesson. And speaking of family, I always ask people in this podcast, what was your upbringing like and where your parents because I think it's a very obviously it's very privileged Firstly, to be able to even think of running a business a lot of people in the world don't have that, that access. But also often wonder, like, what was the groundwork of that like when you said I was into tarot earlier and I was writing a diary from age 12. Like, were your parents super creative? Are they in the small business space like even you going to live in LA like For a lot of that wouldn't even be, you know, they'd be thinking, well, that's Whoa, that's totally outside of my realm of existence.
Jerico
For sure. Yeah. I mean, I never in a million years thought that I would be moving anywhere, let alone somewhere that's got this like, gloss, you know, surrounding it, because I just like really wasn't well traveled. I never went to the states before I lived there. I just went. And, you know, I've been to like Bali and yeah, that's about it. So anywho Yeah, you know, it was, I had a really rough childhood, like, I'm not gonna lie, it was really hard. My parents divorced when I was like six months old. So my mom was raising us with like, very little help. We saw my dad on the weekends, but she was like, financially alone, you know, and she was like, a private school teacher and really stressed about money, and providing for me and my sister. My dad was the groundskeeper boss, or he was making very, very little. So yeah, that we were just constantly worried about stability, and we couldn't, you know, much things like, we didn't have much toys, we didn't have much of anything, you know. And if I was like, you know, I didn't want to eat this, that. I mean, I would never say that in 1000 years, you know, my mom is a walk, I would have, you know, I would have had a pretty sad night if I did. But you know, so it was just like, what you get is what you get, you just be great before you just like shut up and life is hard, you know, and you won't get any real validation, you won't get emotional support. You can't rely on anyone for anything, you just have to kind of suck it up. So yeah, like it was, it was really hard. Like me, my sister had very, very, like hard lessons early on that like made us kind of mentally older than we actually were, you know, like we're, we were both abused by somebody. And our parents, obviously, were trying their best, but they were very neglectful in other ways. My mom had partners who were also abusive, and so yeah, it honestly it just sucked. However, you know, I find that most, most people when they really think about it, you know, even when they have parents that they will say, objectively, we were terrible parents, there's so many redeeming things that they picked up. And I think for my parents, it was that they were both very eccentric in their own ways. My dad was really musical. So like, he plays a ton of instruments. He's really passionate about music, he's really passionate about Surfing is extremely passionate about martial arts. Because even though he kind of had this very working class, like humble lifestyle, he, prior to that was really adept, like martial artist. I mean, at that show, there's more now, but at the time, he was like, one of two like, Australian Westerners to ever be Shaolin disciples, which means like, you live and train in the Shaolin Temple, you're not a Shaolin monk, but you're like under that. So you know, he's like a world champion, like, he's a killing machine, basically, but nobody knows that about him, because he is so humble. And you know, he came back after that experience, and he could have cashed in on it, he could have made a business and, you know, had franchises and going around in his monk robes and asked people to address him by his Shaolin disciple name, but he did, he just went back to work, you know, and so I got a lot of like, lessons in on attachment, and how to kind of not be materialistic from him. And also just like love of nature, and love of like, fun and music and the beach and being really silly, and being really creative and wacky. And my mom was like, very, very spiritual in her own way, and was kind of a black sheep of her family and did things the unorthodox way. Even within like her kind of small, like quite conservative environment. She was very, like, expressive, you know, she dressed kind of funny, and people thought, oh, like, she's a bit weird, you know, and she really loved that and embrace that. So just from observing my parents and just hearing the certain things that they like, said and did, they really did lead by example, when it came to like, just being your authentic self and kind of not giving a fuck at least.
Jerico
You know, and so yeah, like it was really, really hard and I was drawn to spirituality and journaling and all those things because I was trying to cope with a lot of trauma. And I was trying to, like find tools to like help me survive, but at the same time, You know, when I really think about it, there was so many beautiful things about having parents that were like, you know, not like the cookie cutter, like, picket fence parents. I think it gave me so much resilience and so much autonomy and so much kind of a tough skin. But also for me, like it was normal to just go against the grain, like I never thought that I had to kind of fit in in the way that I feel like a lot of other people, most other people do just by default, because they don't know any better. Whereas my parents were kind of actively not fitting in. And I saw that and thought it was really cool. So yeah,
Fiona
Wow, oh my goodness, who has a Shaolin monk? Like, that's incredible. And thank you for sharing that story. And it's, it's interesting, because, you know, you instantly go into like, Oh, I'm sorry that you've gone through that. And I am sorry that, you know, you had had chips, but it also sounds like you've been able to work through some of them and see how much those moments have given you, as well as had and, you know, maybe awful as they were at the time as well.
Jerico
Yeah, and, you know, this is really different for everyone. But from my perspective, I just feel like, What choice do I have, you know, like, I've been angry for so many years, you know, in my life, and if I kind of can't reframe the gifts of like, my own experience and my own life, then like, I mean, I'm doomed, right? Like, it's kind of the bare minimum, if you're going to, you know, embrace what you've got, like, we only have one life that we're like, consciously, you know, that we have a conscious memory of at least. So, you know, it I just felt like, I got to a kind of point where I just consciously was like, I don't have a choice but to like, appreciate what I've been given. And I would not be me if those things hadn't happened to me, you know. And so, as much as it's this kind of, it's a very simplified thing, you know, when people have their catchphrases, like, everything happens for a reason, because, you know, I feel like the universe is very chaotic, and nothing is pre planned. But you've got to be able to like, make hay while the sun shines.
Fiona
Hmm. Oh, my goodness. Yes. Yes. Thank you for that. I yeah, I'm bringing up my dad again. But he used it he had a pretty awful rough upbringing and some just horrible things happened and all through his life and then I said, I remember always saying to him, like, how have you dealt with that how you said to positive person? And what's the alternative? He's always Yeah, the alternative like I sit and dwell on it. And of course, you know, people need to like talk about things and process them and, you know, get help, but yeah, he used to always just go what's the alternative? Like, I can go down this path or that path? Actually, I have a tattoo around that because I have like a tattoo on my finger with two paths. And it's always like, Oh, I have some choice sometimes of which direction you go.
Jerico
Absolutely. Oh, gosh, that's such a cool pithy way of saying it Yeah, I had a therapist once who would say who's in charge like a problem or a person meaning like, Are you just gonna let this situation like dictate how you feel and the rest of your life are you actually going to remember that like, you have some agency like you're behind the wheel?
Fiona
Oh my goodness. I feel like I'm gonna write that down and put it on my desk. Yeah, like sometimes you know when things come up oh my goodness, I could just talk to you all day. So I first came across you on Instagram, and I was like, Oh, this woman I'm just in love with her like I just want to you know, take in everything you've had so much wisdom and and the way that you deliver it is beautiful and obviously you've worked in storytelling and everything but it's really funny and witty and you use humor quite a bit and I'm like just constantly raving about you to anyone and everyone and I have done some I've done a tarot reading with you and I've gifted them to friends I think they make a really good gift as well. But when I had come across you I was like, oh let me go and research that's just what I studied sociology I just feel like I'm a natural researcher. Oh yeah. Researcher slash stalker, I guess. Yeah, and I think anyone because you also have a similar background in that you started in journalism and magazines and everything, which is also the same as mine. So I feel like journalists are just natural stalkers and they sometimes get paid for it. But I found that you had this massive to use your work because you talked about la before, gloss like this beautiful, glossy career. And you had talked to lack in hosted panels with people like you know, Dr. Esther Perel and Elaine welteroth. And, and just so many, like you'd worked at this place and this place in this space and incredible Lee kind of senior roles. as well for someone of your age, and yeah, I'm just sort of wondering like, can you talk us through how someone from Sydney who you said had sort of gone to Bali but hadn't necessarily traveled ended up working for like one of the most iconic publications and not even publications, but like brands in the world? Which is girlboss.
Jerico
Yeah, well, yeah, let me say, Well, I think a lot of it was coming from a place of like, insecurity and scarcity in a way, because I had, I studied journalism for a couple of years. But then I changed and ended up doing like gender studies and art history. And I did honors and it was really great. And then I just started, I spent like, a year or two just working I think I was working in like vintage clothing stores in Sydney. I was really enjoying it. But then I had like a moment of, you know, panic cross, just like, oh, like I'm in my mid 20s. Like, what am I even doing, I'll just go back into journalism again, because it was pretty enjoyable writing comes naturally to me, it seems like the easiest fit. And so I just went with that, because it was like, I did really enjoy it. But also, it's just low hanging fruit. And I did that and I kind of, like I remember like, sitting down at my computer and being like, Okay, I'm just gonna pick a path. Like I felt like I was at a fork in the road. So I was like, just pick a path. So instead of came you say journalism, I'll do a couple of internships and like, see how that goes. And I did, and I just threw myself into it. And I did heaps of interning in, like, I think I interned at one place for like, nine months and other places like 12 months, I did like, three of those. And I was also just like writing for one of the like, uni, you know, publications and street press and stuff like that. And then I got a part time job writing. And then pretty quickly after that got a full time job. And it was just that sweet spot of like 2012, maybe 2011 to 2013, where the internet was just going gangbusters in terms of like, stories with like gifts and like Gorka, you know, and being really, like humorous and irreverent online. And that kind of, you know, early Facebook, like just everyone just having walls. And it was such a simple time. It is so I think it was just the right time for me. And because the first jobs that I had were like in kind of indie, like fashion and music magazines, and I was in digital from the very beginning. I was just doing shit to just like, make myself laugh. Nobody was telling me what to do. I had complete, like, control of what I wanted to do. And so it just like, entertain myself. And I just showed up completely. myself. And yeah, no one was there to kind of pull me in line because media back then especially like independent, Lee run media, it wasn't so obsessed with data and all that stuff. Yep. So I was doing like red carpet reviews where I was just like, kind of making jokes. And interestingly, at that point, so like, I don't think she'd mind me saying, but Sophia amoruso, the founder of girlboss was reading pasta, which is where I worked and was taking note of like, the fact that I was funny, and like, oh, maybe we should like, see if he wants a job at Nasty Gal in LA and actually, like reached out, but nothing happens. Because I was like way too Junior in all honesty. But I just kept doing that. And you know, also kind of looking back I think part of the reason why I hopped around was because aside from just being opportunistic, I was I'd be in a job for like a year and then I'd get really burnt out and I'd be like, Okay, this is getting too hard, I'll find another job. And only now like taking stock. I'm realizing well that's so classic, like adult autism and ADHD, when the mask starts to crack, and then you kind of jump ship. So as much as it's like really impressive that I had all these jokes. I was also running from a problem that I wasn't willing to address, which was like, you know, everything these jobs that were really exhausting. And, you know, I was complaining about like, Oh my gosh, I'm so tired. I was the common denominator.
Jerico
So, I wasn't really like aware of that being affected as much as I am now. But because, you know, it was that exact, like 2010s time period. It worked, you know, like I was able to work. Where was that? So it wasn't like MTV, ASOS and ITV at SBS, Mashable. And from there I went to Google so by the time I was a Girlboss, I'd had like, a trillion jobs and maybe because I was just like, naturally, you know, I was in my own zone of genius. People were willing to just like, promote me really quickly. I worked really fast because it was something that like, I was good at. And I was enjoying. And so I would batch out so many, like pieces of content every day. And yeah, and I think I just kind of impressed people at a time when there was this kind of old school model of journalism, where they were kind of working on like a print timeline. But But in reality, they were kind of faced with these, like new needs, which was essentially the beginning of like, the 24, seven news cycle and just channel ism, you know, which is like, it is what it is. And when I was at places like oyster, like, that's what they were doing. Like it was, it was really great fun. But I was doing like, between 10 to 12 stories a day, because day, yeah, a day like, bashing them out. And they're all probably like, 500 words, ah, it's still way too much for any human to do. But because there was this, like online kind of boom, and social media boom, and things were like, you know, viral conversations were happening. And because I was interested in feminism and stuff, it was like, I heard this makes sense. And I want to like toot my own horn here. But at the time that I like came into this, like, especially oyster because that was like the first editor job that I had. Prior to that time, it was all just like, here's a new lookbook like, here's the new product campaign, blah. And when I started just because of my own kind of natural interest, I was writing about like body hair and free the nipple, if you remember that, and like, you know, these viral topical, kind of controversial conversations around things like identity, like feminism, racism, you know, important stuff. But it also happened to be the stuff that you know, places like I mean, every organization was kind of following the BuzzFeed lead, which was like, write really sensational stuff. And the clicks will just like come and clicks, equal money. And so it was kind of like a gold rush in that way. And I was just kind of riding that wave. So it was a mixture of luck. And like me just showing up as myself. And people seeing something in that, that they just like took a chance on me. And yeah, this stuff just aligned in that way.
Fiona
Wow. And so oh my goodness, there's so much of that I relate to you. I'm older than you, but but I one of my first jobs was the editor of fashion journal. So it was like a free stripper. Yeah. And so that was like 2004 and then I became editor of David Jones student magazine. And it's really weird because now they're doing magazine again, and I'm like, oh, how things come back, you know, but lately before social media and so I've really felt like it was as long as the ad pages have been filled, write whatever you want. Like it was it was just it was really like yeah, and it wasn't about it having to be, you know, the best stuff ever. Or not like you know, clickable things which is often not the best stuff ever. But yeah, when you list off all these things, so not to like oh, yeah, this and Mashable and oyster and you know, Sofia, Mrs. Who is contacting you? What was that? Like? Like when she did contact you? You know, did she email you? Or how and then was it sort of like, did you know what girlboss was at the time?
Jerico
Oh, yeah, so so the first time when I was at oyster because that was so long ago that was like a Nasty Gal. Yeah, job opportunity. And so I was kind of like, Oh, I don't know like I'm really liking being in journalism as opposed to just like working for like a retail giant that was you know, pre a sauce and everything which I did end up doing. Yeah, just like kind of wasn't right. And I was not willing to move overseas or anything like that. And so the second time around, I was at Mashable. And I had already been through like so many burnouts that was a critical point where I was starting to heal I picked up Taro again I was already reading I had kind of downsized my life and changed my priorities as much as I was possibly able to to work on my energy levels and like address my needs. So it was really weird timing in that sense because you know, when you kind of like put stuff out into the universe, and suddenly things are just popping up there was like that. Yeah, so she just like reached out on LinkedIn and was like, I'm starting a media company like do you want to talk about it? And I was like, ah, media company. Now that's interesting, because that was the first I heard of it. And so yeah, we were just talking about it on zoom and she was like, you want to come over and just like make the payment and sausage out. And I was like, Yeah, okay, so I went over, I was there for like two nights, which had to, I did some kind of presentation on, like, my vision for the brand and the editorial, like, kind of, yeah, voice and values and all of that. And she was like, Yeah, well, like the job's yours, like, you want to move here? And I was like, Yeah, okay, so I went back and packed and like, got the visa and move straight back within like a matter of weeks. So it happened really quickly. But it was super exciting, because I was like, wow, like, I could totally see this moment, like the momentum of girlboss, like as a book and a podcast, being a media company, and I could see it so clearly in my head, like how fun it would be to like, write those articles and provide that content that feels like, genuinely helpful and serviceable and accessible. You know, especially when you're talking about money and stuff like that, that's traditionally like very prohibitive, but just like spoken about in is really like high minded or just like completely boring ways. And so yeah, it was really exciting. And that was basically it. I just, I liked the vibe, and I thought it'd be really cool opportunity. And as much as I was scared, because I was really burnt out. And it felt like a bit of a detour from the more like healing path that I was already on. It was worth it. Because in the back of my head on a more selfish level, I was like, well, LA is like the spot to be if you want to be a tarot reader. So while I'm there, I could like work on that. And it would also be an amazing adventure and an amazing opportunity that I would have been crazy to say no to, you know, because again, on like a personal level, I wasn't well traveled, I wasn't, you know, someone who ever thought that? I could do that. And so she just made it so easy. So was like, yeah, we'll set you out, you know, give you a budget to help you move over. And I was just like, wow. And the other thing I'll say is, it was really weird, because in all that kind of healing work and recovering from burnout that I was doing, I downsized my life so dramatically. Like, I gave my beautiful cat to a family friend to look after us that I could move into a cheaper place. And that place was a sublet, that my friend was letting me stay in for like 12 weeks. And so I'd gotten rid of all my furniture. My cat was with my family friend, I only had 12 weeks in his house, I had no idea like what my future was going to look like. But I felt like something was about to happen. like something was coming. And so I was preparing for something, but I didn't know what it was. And it ended up being that.
Fiona
Oh, wow. Isn't it so interesting? How it just all aligned? Yeah, yeah. Wow. So interesting. when these things happen in life, like, I didn't know, even if someone randomly gives you something, and then you're like, oh, what will I do with that, and then two weeks later, this amazing year to come save me like, Oh, so I just love that whole idea. And that you jumped on the plane and went, like, took this huge leap. So you mentioned moving to LA and kind of this, like all the tarot, the tarot rate a hotspot of the world. And you have mentioned tarot ratings, and I've done them with you. And I think it's incredible. And in your work. Now you talk about joy and like stoking the fires of imagination and play and power and like sort of spiritual power. And I'm sure lots of people listening, are doing their own work in that space. And I'm sure there are others who are like, what does that even mean? how is that related to business? Can you talk us through sort of why you specialize in this, and why it's important for people, potentially, especially small business owners, to also be looking at that and not be like, Oh, that's, that's this or that, or that's fluffy, or, you know, whatever things people can think when they're not actually doing the work.
Jerico
Yeah, it isn't for everybody. But I think that it's just semantics at the end of the day. So whether you're somebody who talks about like, spirit and the universe and that kind of stuff, or you're someone who just talks about like, this is what brings me meaning, you know, this is my purpose, that kind of thing in a much more like, straight down the line secular way. It's the same thing. So I just like use that language, because that resonates with me. But I think that having that meaning as then doing what you do, because of something greater is a spiritual approach to business, whether you would actually use the S word or not, you know, so if there's a kind of a set of values that you hold, the most dear to you that relate to, you know, leaving the world a better place than you found it or making sure You're setting up your kids, you know, for the best possible future, the things that like touch you on like a, like a cellular level. And that's the why that, you know, that obviously why that, like everyone talks about it like, I feel like you have to have that greater purpose, if you're going to have the insurance to sustain yourself through the challenges, the fears that come up the bumps in the road, the setbacks, like, this isn't easy, you know, in as much as we can try and like, make it fun and make it easy, which I really believe in being creative. and building a business is one in the same in that like, it requires a certain tolerance to fear. And if you don't have something to kind of fall back on in terms of like, what gives you that meaning, what gives you that sense of like, oh, live this, if you will, that joy that play whatever that means to you, because maybe your meaning is more like, more like a workhorse, you know, like I'm gonna, I'm gonna push through it, and that feels alive and exciting to you. It doesn't matter what it looks like, you know, but without that, how can we kind of endure through those hard times, you know, without that, in my experience, it's just so easy to say, you know what, this is too hard. Or maybe I'm not cut out for this, or, you know, all the stories we tell ourselves. Because we're not anchoring into like, our core truths, you know, because the voices in our head aren't what we really believe all the time. Like, if we actually repeat it back to ourselves, like, here's voices that even like, I don't even believe that. And so the more in touch, we can be with those kind of greater it, whatever we would call it mission, you know, meaning purpose, it doesn't really matter what we call it, but like, it has to be about more than us, it has to be bigger than us. And that's why it's always spiritual in my eyes, even when it's not, it is.
Fiona
I love that it would it's not it is. And I love also that you pointed out the stat that you know, some people will say spirituality, some people will say something else, some people will say it's whatever God they believe in, or gods and you know, like, it's it is it's unique to you. But I love that you said I just used to use this word. But that's it could be all sorts of ways that it shows up for people. And it is just, you know, syntax. At the end of the day.
Jerico
Absolutely. There's this, like, kind of spiritual thought leader, teacher person that I really admired, called Mitch Horowitz, who's primarily a writer. And his definition of spiritual is anything extra physical, so if you can't see it, you know, with your eyes and like, measure it, and kind of objectively appraise it, it's spiritual. So in my understanding, you know, any kind of emotional resonance, or energetic resonance, or like we said, like those values, those meetings, that's all within the realm of, you can't measure that you can't put a value on that. It's, it's our imagination, it's extra physical. And so that's kind of as much of a part of our business, if not more, than all the stuff that we actually like, can really map out and put in a spreadsheet. Yes,
Fiona
Oh, my goodness, so much so often in in my first session with people and also like, even in the questionnaire, they're asked questions about, are you committed to this? And what do you feel about it? And how, like, think back to when you started it to now like, you know, where would you rate yourself? And so often, in that first session, they're like, ah, I really did think about when I started this, and they kind of remember who they were, like, five years ago, and they're like, I'm just so excited. And, and it's like, well, then Where? Where is the energy? wind? Because it does, yeah, to like, energy, whether you work for someone or you work for yourself, it's like, Am I waking up being like, another day? Or am I waking up being like, I am super pumped to do these days, not every single day necessarily, but you know, waking up and you're excited in some way, or you're eager to do whatever it is that you do. And so obviously, we're recording this in the pandemic, and the last 18 months plus have been so hard for many, many, many small business owners, you know, they're having to consider closing, I've had a client who is 18 years into her business and is considering shutting the doors for the first time. Yeah. Do you have any tips or kind of ideas around? How can we find pockets of joy? Or even finding time to play or do something that feels like that? When people are finding themselves in very, an overwhelming, stressful kind of season of life?
Jerico
Yeah. Oh my gosh, it's so so real. And, you know, I want to be mindful of like how I talk about it even because it's seriously dark times, and There's a lot of advice out there on like, how to how to get through it, you know, especially in the business world, and, you know, we kind of just have to like, acknowledge and honor the fact that so so many businesses closing and you know, people sick people are dying, we're all traumatized to one degree or another. Because of this, it is the heaviest thing that many of us have gone through in our lifetimes, in a lot of ways. So, that being said, I think it's just, you know, important to, I guess, remember that, like, it's not frivolity, like, it's not silly, or an afterthought, to find some moments of play, in order to enjoy it to kind of balance out the fact that we're living through, you know, really hard times, I think the way that we're kind of taught about, like, just enjoyment, it's, it's an afterthought, or it's a reward, it's a treat that we get, when we've sat through like eight hours of school that day, whatever school goes. And for me, it's not like this afterthought, it's not a mutually exclusive thing, it's actually the only way through, like, heavy shit is, you know, it's a path to resilience in and of itself. And so just to remember that, like, when you are trying to find those moments of joy, and play and presence in your every day, it's not some kind of distraction from the things that are hard, it's, it's literally the doorway to things, not feeling as hard. You know, and when you think of like, people who have suffered the most and have the least on the planet, when you see, you know, images of them and things like that, in a lot of refugee camps around the world, they get the kids together, and like a clown will come, you know, and they're all like laughing and having fun and all the, you know, parents are really appreciative in a way that maybe we wouldn't expect, had we not seen that footage, because they'd really think, well, that's not important. But in those kind of moments, that stuff becomes more important than ever. Because that's the human spirit. That's what makes us us, that's what separates us from animals is our ability to find pleasure and create beauty. And so play for me, it's all about that, and it can look like anything, you know, the word play is like a bit deceptive, because people think, Oh, I have to like go and sit in a sandbox and just like mess around. But for some people play is like solving a really heavy problem, or, you know, doing a frustrating crossword, it doesn't have to look like follow, like skipping through a matter, you know. And for other people. It doesn't have to, it's some kind of neutral, you know, like maybe people find that, with some experimentation, they get the most out of just sitting still for five minutes a day, closing their eyes, just noticing how they feel like noticing their breath, feeling the sensations in their body, and just giving themselves that moment of presence. Because for me, that's what all creativity and play is about. It's getting into, you know, they say being in the zone or in the vortex, like when you're in that place where you can just be brave, and just be without having to do, the more we can do that, the more we're kind of strengthening those neural pathways where we're able to focus, we're able to kind of access our true feelings, rather than bypassing them because that's when you know, when you kind of repress things and don't listen to yourself, over time, it accumulates to a point of burnout. Like that's how we burn out and that's how we're depressed when we don't let ourselves play for an extended period of time. And so yeah, for me, the opposite of that is truly being in the moment and doing something that's quote unquote, purposeless, you know, people kind of feel like Well, where's the productivity? Or where's the utility in May like sitting down and doodling or even meditating? Or you know, contrary wise, which is even kind of more of a thing that I see these days is I'm gonna sit down I'm gonna do like 45 minutes meditation every morning and it becomes work becomes another productive box that we take, and we're kind of pushing ourselves through it in this like self flagellating way, which is not what it is for. And so yeah, anyway, I think that that purposelessness is what's deeply missing from allies. That's how we can think laterally. And the most ironic thing about developing some kind of tolerance for play and presence, ironically, is that it makes us think more innovatively, and we get more done in the long run anyway, so not only are we like, happier, we're actually better at our business, or we are more productive. But it only happens when we can let go of that end goal.
Fiona
Oh, my goodness, yeah, just full of insights and wisdom. It's so true. And when you look at I have two young children. And when you look at children, they just, they do this all the time, it'll be like, Okay, I'm just gonna dance for like, 10 minutes. Yeah. play basketball, and then I'm gonna draw a picture. And it's, they're just in the moment.
Jerico
So in the moment, and they really do it with pride. Kids are incredible with that. They're just born with competence. And it's really kind of, like, trained out of it. And it's about kind of bringing that back rediscovering that but you know, the way that you'll see a kid and they'll literally just like, grab a pen and like, make a like, big splurge on a piece of paper and then go, Mom, look what I did they start with such pride. Yeah, they're just like, let's frame it, it's at a massive base. Yeah, they just do not care about anyone else's perceptions or projections of them. They're just in the moment in this like state of your imagination. And it's oh my gosh, it's so profound. And so inspiring to see these.
Fiona
It is, it is. Even yesterday, I was with my two and a half, two and a bit year old. And we had crayons out the bat like chalk, and my husband skates all the time. So we've built like this quarter pipe in the back, and my little one got the chalk and was like starting to scroll all over it. And then he just said to me, fast, fast, fast, like fast roaring, let's grow really fast, and then slow, slow. And I was like, Oh, he's like, let's do a fast, let's draw. So let's draw fast. And it's like, never done that before. Like, just let's draw as fast as we can. And then we can. And I was like, he's just so in this moment. And it's true, what you say. Like, I think it also comes down to people. There's this perception that like, I don't deserve to play, or I don't deserve, yeah, until, yeah, until I get to earned it. Or until every other thing in the house is done, then I can have a bit of time for myself or, you know, dance around or whatever. So yeah, thank you so much for those tips. I know so many people listening will find it really, really useful. I know we're finishing up but I wanted to ask just a couple more questions, if that's okay. Yeah, you have, and I don't know how you feel about this question. But you have a guest a very, like a personal brand, for want of a better word, like you're a best selling author, you have these beautiful tarot card kits. You're a creator, you're this recognized speaker, and you're this connector of people and this creativity coach. And I feel like you're the sort of person that you could shift into any offering like product or service or both. And people would just be drawn to it, they would just follow you, regardless of what it was that you're offering. And I think you also have this career and like connecting with creatives and people like so. Esther Perel, who is obviously a very successful therapist in her own right, but she's also a brand, like a personal brand is awful. And that sounds? And I guess, what advice would you have anyone listening who maybe wants to step into the spotlight a little bit more. So either, they want to be a bit more of the figurehead face of their brand, or they even maybe want to build a personal brand. So they want to do more speaking, more writing more kind of thought leadership stuff, from wanting a better word, like or books or putting out those things? With that just all organic for you? And do you have any tips having been around those people and, you know, in your own life? Yeah,
Jerico
This is such a good question, because I really haven't given it that much thought. But I think something that I, I feel is kind of true for me, and also for the people that I've kind of observed is it's okay to be multi passionate, and really complicated and have very interests and just bring it all, you know, like, I've always just brought it all in. And I think that if I had thought, Oh, well, is that relevant to my niche, you know, or should I just like, make this really simple and focus on like, one thing at a time, I wouldn't have done pretty much anything because I would have stopped myself. But all I did was leaned into like, what was genuinely exciting and fun for me. I mean, I never do it in a really conscious way. But I'm always asking myself like, would this be fun? Would this be funny, like, would this make me laugh? You know, I'm like, I've been having so much fun with rails lately. I'm just being an absolute dag, but like no fun for me, oh, hilarious.
Fiona
I've got to watch it. They just they might as well and in a really witty way.
Jerico-
Oh, thanks. But yeah, cuz I really, really believe that like when I think about the people that I admire, they're just people that are showing up and they're amusing themselves. And this is a piece of I can't even remember where I heard this. But a piece of writing advice that I really love that applies to all of life, I think is the more personal you make something, the more universal it is. So the more that you can just be like, this is so fascinating to me, and I'm excited by it. Firstly, there's people that just don't agree. And so they're filtered out immediately. But the people that feel the way you do, maybe they haven't even realized they feel the way you do until they see you talking about it, and they have that permission slip. But they feel so seen and like they just joined the party, you know, and so I feel like, you know, in talking about whatever I'm talking about, or whatever I'm offering, if I just show up, and I'm like, isn't this cool? Some people might like just exit immediately, but everyone else is like, yeah, that's cool. And it's kind of as simple as that, like, it is a bit of a cop out. But I really think that that's true. And the reason that I talk a lot about niching up, as opposed to niching down is because what's most important to me, and what I teach all of my clients is that it doesn't matter how multifaceted your life and your interest in your offerings are, if they're all coming from that same place of being anchored in your values in your, like, deepest beliefs and principles, and what gives you that meaning. And that's what they all have in common. So kind of like I was talking about earlier, you know, I've done so many things, but they all really relate to the same thing, which is just like authentic self expression, being weird and following your joy. You know, and so when you can offer whatever it is the offering to people according to your values, rather than your kind of, you know, pre packaged up idea of like, Okay, this is what this is, it's a very, very specific, it's very, very niche. You know, that's a controversial take. But in my experience in my own life, like, I think that's what creates a personal brand, as opposed to just like a product based business, if that makes sense. Because that advice works for some people, and it works in some context. But for people that do a lot, and the only kind of like commonality is is them and their values. And the person who's coming to mind for me who I'm obsessed with because like who isn't, is flex Mommy, who's an Australian. Yeah, like, they're an author, they're a DJ, they're present on TV, they're an influencer, they could do anything, and so many people would just be down for it, because they're the common denominator. And they're kind of lens on anything, no matter what it is, is the thing that people are there for. So you know, your perspective and what lights you up and what excites you will excite others, you just kind of have to just trust yourself enough to just like, kind of get out of your own way and like not give a fuck pretend it's like 2013 and you're just blogging. And you're just saying whatever comes to your head,
Fiona
Yes. Oh my goodness, I teach a like a class on how to humanize your business. And there's a quote and I think it's similar to the quote that you mentioned before about writing from Ernest Hemingway, and it says details make stories human and the more human a story can be the better. And I think so often, small business owners, you know, like, say they create a product based business or whatever, it's always you who's the differentiator, like you can have all these great UX things and be like, Oh, my business is going to do this a bit differently, or, you know, whatever the positioning, but it's you it's the it's the people that are going like the exact story that you know, their lens, like you say, it's, that's what's gonna make people like, you know, things different and people be repelled or attracted to you. So yeah, such good advice that you go, thank you.
Fiona
Then have you had any, like, obviously, you're a coach, and you've, you know, you're helping so many people. But have you worked with any kind of mentors or are there any books or have you done any courses or anything that have really helped you build your business out and that you would recommend to other people? Yeah,
Jerico
Totally. I've worked with coaches, and I've had Tarot mentors. I've done meditation teacher training. So I've really enjoyed that answer a couple of those people that come to mind because there's a lot. My meditation teacher, for my training, Suzanne Jones is just the most incredible, unique woman on the planet, just marches to the beat of her drum and has a beautiful approach to teaching, but also just Like the world, you know, like very ethical, and really progressive and really curious and constantly wanting to, to learn, improve. And anyway, I just really like working with her. My very, very first Tarot teacher was Paul Fenton Smith, who is an Australian gentleman who's written a number of books. And he was really interesting to work with. He is a very, like old school like divination, approach to tarot. And I, I found personally that it was really helpful to start there, and then kind of move into the more kind of therapeutic or psychological or self care like models of tarot. So that was a really transformative moment in my life. Oh, and more recently, I've been working with Robin Gooding who's Canadian, and she's a really beautiful business coach, because the strategy and the systems are like, so Oh, my gosh, like, this person is just a type a hyper organized beast. But she also has this soul component to everything she does, and the emotional support and mindset work and stuff that I've done with her. It's been really cool. I've also worked with Ellie Swift, who's Australian, an incredible Sora shilling is incredible. And then in terms of just like, books, oh my god, there's just so many My mind is just like racing with... The book that I've read, very late 2016, early 2017. And that was a part of my like, original kind of burnout recovery healing journey when I was deep into learning Tarot, and things like that was The Body Keeps The Score. So that's the first thing that came to my mind, just because I do think that that was like a pivotal book for me. But yeah, I just, I just try and keep a beginner's mind to every book I read, and every like, teacher that I interact with, because I'm a really big believer in like, taking what resonates and leaving the rest. And like, for example, people often ask, like, what are the best Tarot books when they're starting out. And I'm like, just read any Tarot book, because even if you hate it, and like, you don't jive with its meanings, that's information, you've still learned a great deal. If anything, you've probably learned more about what you believe, then if you read a book that you just completely agreed with. So I think it's important to kind of Yeah, stay really open to like, teaching moments in like, whatever form they come in, rather than, like, official, you know, transactional teaching relationships. Because Yeah, like, my whole life has been about like, the power of books, and just conversations with people that are already all around you. So especially, you know, for listeners that might not be in a place to be able to, like afford working with like, successful, like coaches and things like that. There's still so much you can do and plus, like, you know, all the all the best coaches have some kind of free or at least, like accessible level of offerings, whether it's just their social media, or the newsletter, or it's little freebies, you can download on this site. Like, there's so much out there that you can still really get a lot out of,
Fiona
Yeah, oh my goodness, so many and link to, to those that you've mentioned here as well for people. I think books are just like libraries, like old people, I feel like old people are also like libraries, full of wisdom and amazing ideas.
Jerico
So true. Oh my gosh, I could not agree more. I love talking to old people. And that's the thing you know, we're always kind of looking outside of ourselves to someone who's got like this totally different experience to like, learn from but it's like, have like really probing good conversations with your friends and family and like it'll be amazing. What comes out of it. One other person that I'll quickly mentioned, because I forgot, but I'm a really big fan of is my other tarot teacher/mentor, who is Jeff Hinshaw, who has a podcast called Cosmic Cousins, because they're an astrologer too, and they've been really great but yeah, I've worked with teachers in the witchcraft space in you know, meditation and spirituality more broadly space in business coaching in just like health and well being and now because of like my autism diagnosis, and also on the NDA, so I have the privilege of being able to work with like, care mentors who are also you know, late diagnosed autistic and ADHD people and it's just so great to have the space to Yeah, like learn in ways that I that I didn't even realize were available to me until only a handful of years ago. So it's it's amazing how the internet has opened up our worlds to like different forms of, of mentorship and knowledge sharing.
Fiona
Oh, yeah, completely completely. The business coach I've working with at the moment is in Austin, Texas, and it's sort of Like, that would never have happened. If it wasn't the internet for me to kind of connect with them. And then I guess what are you most proud of from this amazing journey that you've had so far, especially around your business? What are you most proud of? Yeah,
Jerico
I think I'm probably most proud of just being myself, like, I've never really compromised or gone through a phase, which is like, no judgement to people that have, they totally understand the temptation, where you're kind of like, okay, like, this is my like, approach, I'm going to be really professional, I'm going to wear a blazer, like blah, blah, blah. I've never done that. Like, I've never gone into a work situation where I just didn't pretty much show up as my full self. You know, I didn't talk about spirituality and stuff in like, certain media jobs that I had, just because it wasn't really relevant to talk about as a journalist. But yeah, I've never tried to, I've just never really tried hard to come across in any certain way. I'm always just like, showing up in a T shirt and jeans or no pants. It's just kind of, yeah, just trusting that the right people will find me. And that's the best part of just being yourself is, it's so much quicker, it's a direct shortcut to finding your people, because you don't have to worry about like, oh, what, you know, what are they interested in me for? Like, what do they need for me? What's their motivation? Because you're better talking about data, like, yes, it's very important to like, serve out people with like, the needs that they have. But again, it's like, if I did a bunch of data on my, like, Instagram audience, for example, when I quit girlboss, and I was starting to coach and I thought, Okay, well, most of them want help with money, like, the kind of conclusion that I would have drawn was like, Okay, well, I have to be a money coach. Like, what, like, that's not what I enjoy. And so, you know, we really just have to follow our own bliss. And the rest really falls into place. Because when we're energized and passionate about what we're doing, like, it's such a cliche thing, but it's so true, like, things happen when we're doing something that we love, you know, sooner or later, like things happen. So you just have to stay true to yourself.
Fiona
Oh, I could not agree more. It's so interesting, what you were saying at the end about, you know, enjoying it, someone talks to me recently about, you know, there's a whole like my zone of genius and find your zone of genius, and they said, but you should find your zone of genius plus joy, because you can have a zone of genius that you just really good at, that doesn't, you know, actually that excited about it, for sure. also true, and also what you're saying about showing up as yourself. I went to a conference recently, and like a virtual one. And they said, dress as your, you know, dresses, your kind of highest self and everything. And I was like one, we're in lockdown and can't really go shopping. But all I was like, I dress how I want to dress every day. I don't like there's not like, Oh, I could read that if I you know, it's like, oh, yeah, like a bit more sparkle or something. I was like, and so it's been an interesting question. I've asked lots of people since about what would you wear if you were going to be your highest self? Because I was like, I'm not like when you said that, you know, put a blazer on or dress a certain way. I think it's just a really interesting question. Because I was like, What would I wear? And I'm like, I would wear what I wear.
Jerico
Yeah, what I what I damn well felt like wearing
Fiona
Yeah. I love that you're so yourself. Because I think you being yourself. Allow so many other people to feel like it's safe to be themselves as well. So thank you for everything that you do. And how can people connect with you? If they're listening to this thinking, Oh, my goodness, I want to work with her or I want to, you know, connect with her on and see these reels that she's working on. where's the best place that they can find out more about you?
Jerico
Oh, shucks Well, my website is Jerico Mandybur. And you'll find my spelling of my name in the show notes. And my Instagram is @jerico.mandybur
Fiona
Awesome. Well, thank you so so much for just I could honestly to sit here I know we've even gone over your time already. But I could sit here for like another two hours, but I need to finish up. But you can get back to we can both get down life. Thank you for your time and for everything that you've done and do in your career.
Jerico
Likewise, it's so fun to chat to you and thank you for having me.
Fiona
You're welcome. Bye.
Jerico
Bye.
Fiona
Oh my goodness, what a beautiful person and I yeah, I just absolutely loved that chat. I just know that so many of you listening are going to get so much out of all the wisdom and all the insights that Jerico shared I would love to hear from you and know you know what resonated most with you I could pick at least you know 20 things in that one conversation but I'm just going to highlight two that stood out for me.
I think the idea when Jerico talked about the refugee camps and the clowns and that you know, sometimes it's when things are most challenging and the most hard part of our life and journeys and seasons of our life is when we need that joy we need that play we need to you know, just surrender and find our human spirit again I absolutely totally agree with that even in a really small way I know that I often follow and will you know make sure that I'm going in checking intentionally certain people's Instagram because they just make me laugh my head off. I know James Lemon an amazing person here in Melbourne ever I'm just like I'm trying not to laugh now. Because I will just watch some of his videos over and over and over and be crying with laughter and it's amazing to have those moments especially when you know, you turn on the news and it's just one horrible thing after another horrible thing or you talk to people and sometimes it's just you know this after this after this and it's so wonderful to have those moments. I know that when lockdown first started in Melbourne last year, we implemented 8:30am Kitchen dance off - me and my son. And we still so we made like a Spotify list morning dance. And we still use that soundtrack all the time.
So I just feel like yeah, it's something that a lot of us will think our children need to do that but won't give ourselves that same permission to play and find joy. So I absolutely love love love love the Jerico talked about that and of course that's what she works with people on as well.
And then I love as well in her determination really to to go and get you know her health sorted and to go and find out what is happening and why does this keep happening and and I don't feel right. And I love that she talked about determined self advocacy and really champion things for yourself and whether it's your health whether it is some other part of your life, whether it's in your business, you know, sometimes you do have to be your biggest cheerleader. I know in my money mapping course I refer to Kenya Moore from Real Housewives of Atlanta who I just think is awesome and she is her own biggest cheerleader and I think we need to see more of that and we need to see you know more examples where people are like no I'm not going to just sit back and be told I'm going to go and find out and and really get to the bottom of this and really be you know, remember she just termed it so perfectly Jerico when she said determined self advocacy I absolutely love that.
So I'm sure that Jerico would also love to know what you took away from this and you know how maybe she may be able to help you with whatever it is that you need in your life and your business at the moment. So you can find Jerico on Instagram @jerico.mandybur and of course we'll link to that in the shownotes as well. And you can find everything about what she does. You can connect with Jerico's books over at jericomandybur.com
As always, we will have the full transcript over at mydailybusinesscoach.com/podcast/144 I absolutely loved having that conversation. I feel like I could have it for hours and hours. Yeah, I just love to hear what you made of today's episode. So please don't be a stranger. You can come and let me know at @mydailybusinesscoach on Instagram or of course you can email us hello@mydailybusinesscoach.com All right, thank you so much for listening, and I'll see you next time Bye.
Thanks for listening to the My Daily Business Coach podcast. If you want to get in touch you can do that at mydailybusinesscoach.com or hit me up on Instagram at @mydailybusinesscoach.
