Episode 198: The ripple effect of having a beautiful and effective website to a business with Marre Smit of Smit Club
Your website is not only for you but for your clients too. In today's episode, Fiona talks to Marre Smit of Smit club about her & her business' journey. They also talk about the effect of having a beautiful website for a business. Tune in!
Topics discussed in this episode:
Introduction
How Smit Club started
On websites being an essential tool in business
Tips to consider before the web design process
On Smit Club
On Web Club
On how Marre finds time for herself
Books that helped with Marre's business
What's next for Marre and Smit Club
Conclusion
Get in touch with My Daily Business Coach
Resources and Recommendations mentioned in this episode:
Marre Smit
Melissa Griffin
Web Club
Jen Sincero
I feel like it's been repeated over and over, but I don't think I can say it enough. What I notice a lot is that when people start to think about their website or start to create their website and think about it in terms of messaging or colors or branding, they really take themselves as a starting point for their business instead of their client, which is so important. Not to make that website for yourself, but to actually make it for your client.
Hello and welcome to episode 198 of the My Daily Business Coach podcast. My name's Fiona Killackey. I'm your host. And if this is your first time joining us. Welcome. If you have been here for all 197 episodes previously, thank you so much for your support. We love hearing from people who listen to this. So please don't be a stranger. You can send us a DM @mydailybusinesscoach or an email. If you wanna go to old school, hello@mydailybusinesscoach.com. Today it is an interview with an incredible small business owner. And I really do mean that she is just such a genuine person, so creative, so inspiring, and somebody that I'm very lucky to call a good friend. But before we get stuck into today's interview episode, I wanted to pay my respects to the traditional owners and custodians on the beautiful land on which I live and record this podcast and work and play. And have my life. That is the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation. And I pay my respects to their elders, past, present, and, emerging, and acknowledge that sovereignty has never been ceded. All right, let's get on with today's episode.
So I don't know about you, but there are instances in life when you meet somebody and you just instantly connect. Like there's not a kind of awkwardness and as an adult, when you're connecting with people and becoming friends with people, sometimes there could be this kind of awkwardness, almost like dating. Like, do they like me as much as I like them? Or am I just imagining that we are really good friends when we're actually not? Or all these sorts of things that can go on in your mind or I'd like to ask them to hang out again, but is that coming across too strong? I mean, it really is like dating, isn't it trying to be friends as adults in the modern world. And when I connected with my guest today, Marre Smit, the founder of Smit Club, I just instantly kind of had this visual of me and her just laughing and like being on holiday.
It was kind of very strange. So basically the way that we connected is we both took this US mastermind in 2021. I think it was the very start of 2021. And because of COVID and it being in the US, neither of us could travel to the retreat, which kind of kicked off the whole mastermind. So it was a six-month mastermind every single week, sometimes twice a week. And it started with this two-day retreat that if you were in the US and you could travel, you could go to, but most people who were not in the US just went on Zoom. And so a lot of us got a hotel room because of the time difference. You didn't really wanna, like, especially for me, I was doing it literally overnight. I think we started at midnight one day and 2:00 AM and the next day or something like that.
And so I hired a hotel and as did Marre, so Marre in Amsterdam in the Netherlands, and she had a hotel, I had my hotel. And so per people that were on Zoom kind of were having these chats in the chat section of Zoom and Marrre, and I just kept chatting. And I just thought this woman is super cool and just lovely and has the same sort of sense of humor. And as the weeks progressed, and as we kind of got to know each other more, we would just send funny messages to each other during our sessions, because we were always online. And I just thought she was so funny. And so just in the same wavelength, like just laughing. There is some stuff that Marre and I will find really funny that I'm sure lots of people do not find funny.
Just those people that you can just giggle with and you feel like, just understand you and get you, and you can be a hundred percent yourself. And that is exactly what I found in Marre. I know how lucky I am, because that is an incredibly rare thing to find, especially randomly on Zoom in a mastermind. But I think this is also a massive nod to things like group coaching. I love watching my people from group coaching, become friends outside of group coaching. And it was a huge thing that we got from the mastermind that we were both parts of. So hats off to Melissa Griffin for hosting that because we both said it multiple times. Goodness, meet, pay all that money again, just to meet each other. I met Marre, and Marre is just one of those people that as you get to know her and you find out more, you're like, “oh my goodness, what?”
And then you did this and then you had this type of business and then you lived here and then you traveled all around the world. And then you are on a reality TV show in the early two-thousands. Like what, there is nothing. I feel like that she could tell me now that I wouldn't be like, of course, you did that because she just has this incredibly diverse career that has varied from sales through to importing things from West Africa, into the European market through to a, I think it was like a t-shirt apparel brand through to being a trend forecaster through to what she does now, which is the founder of Smit Club. And she has been running this business, this agency that creates beautifully designed and beautifully functioning websites for clients all over the world.
So if you are listening to this and you need a website, then do not be afraid of the fact that you may be in another country and not the Netherlands, Marre works with people all over the world, and Smit Club is her baby. And in that she creates websites and branding and ideas and works with all sorts of different industries and businesses, a lot of creative, small businesses, as well, as well as mentors, other designers through her own business who work in the business and also through web club, which is ongoing, I think it's 12 weeks program that she works with web designers or people who have been working at different agencies who wanna start their own web design agency or their own web design company. And she walks through everything from the audience through to money, through to all sorts of things. So I had to have Marre one because she's just an ace human being.
And also two, because she has run so many different types of businesses. And also now that she runs a website agency, websites have never been more important, especially with the pandemic and so many people going online. So in this chat, we talk about everything from how she got into the business? Are her parents business owners? How is she so creative? Like, she's one of those people that honestly, and I meet a lot of creative people. I have to say she is right up there with creative ideas and creative ways of looking at the world. And where did that come from? And then we also talk about everything from juggling the pandemic. And she has three children as well. And living in a city like Amsterdam, what was it like as well as just practical tips on a website? What should people be looking for?
If they're gonna hire a website agency, what should they be looking for if they are designing their own way of site and how to know the key elements that you need on your website to engage your audience. So it was my absolute pleasure to bring on Marre to talk about everything. And every conversation I have with her is a pleasure, but yeah, I'm really excited about bringing her out into my audience as well. And as I said before, if you're listening to this and you're thinking, she sounds like somebody I wanna work with, do not let the fact that she is in Europe derail you, if you are on my side of the hemisphere, because she does work with people all over the world. All right. So here is my interview with the lovely Marre,founder of Smit Club.
Hello, Marre, how are you feeling today?
Hi, Fiona. I'm doing well. Thanks. How are you?
I am good. I'm always good when I'm talking to you. So I would love to know where you are meeting us from. And can you describe kind of what it's like they're at the moment?
Sure. Yeah. I'm meeting you from Amsterdam, Netherlands, Europe. I mean, it's so far away, right? We need to add all these things to know where I'm at. And today is like, it's a bit of a rainy day after a lot of good weather that we had. We cherish it when the sun is out, but we have a lot of rain. I'm just calling you from my home today. I'm not in the studio yet because I am in quarantine. Other than that feeling good, feeling fine. It's all good.
Thank you so much for making the time when you are in quarantine, you have had the dreaded COVID, but you seem to be okay at the moment.
I am. I'm doing really well. I think I'm one of the lucky people that is not too sick. And honestly, I'm sort of glad it has happened now because we've all been waiting for it. Obviously, it's not as bad as the start of the pandemic, but no, I'm feeling really good. Now kind of cherishing the quarantine where you don't have to go outside or do anything. So that's also, that's the other side, I guess, of the coin, right?
This is like forced relaxation in a way, I mean, not relaxation, of course, there are so many people that get COVID and it's not great, but when you are getting it and it's sort of a milder version, maybe. It's so nice to have that spare time to yourself or just any time to yourself.
I was totally lucky because there are a lot of people who are not, or have not been this lucky, but it's so random. Right. But just cherishing that really.
And so you mentioned that you're at home and you're not in the studio and the studio is where you run your business, which is what I'm gonna talk about today. And so I'd love to know a bit more about Smit Club. Obviously, I do know a bit more about it because of your friend, but I would love for you to sort of talk us through how it started, and why it started. Were you kind of in this industry for a while? I love the name as well, obviously. How did you come up with that?
Thank you. Well, obviously Smith is my last name and Club is just, I mean that's always something fun, right? It's where I used to go dancing and it's just a nice get-together idea. So, we actually figured that out when I did my branding. A while ago, Smit Club started, so for those who don't know, I run a little agency that makes custom websites for ambitious entrepreneurs around the world. And it started just because of my own personal interest, to be honest, I love everything IT in computers and yeah, you could say I'm a nerd, I'm a proud nerd. and love doing all that stuff. And I was just playing around with it and it came to one point where my previous business, which was something totally different, came to an end.
And I had made our website and even a shop and we had a wholesale business. So there was a wholesale part of it and a business consumer part of it. And I just made that and learned myself how to do it. And it sort of slowly progressed from there, I actually did my first website in exchange for a gym membership for my husband. They wanted a website and I didn't know what to charge. And I was like, well, you can give him a membership for a year. And then they were like, “Okay, that's good.” And it just grew from there.
That is so funny. And did he want a membership?
No, I was like, you need to go and work out. He totally wanted it. He was already at the gym. It was him who said, “Do you need a website?” You need to ask my wife because she loves doing that stuff. And I did. And I still maintain that website. They're really nice clients. It's a boxing school here in Amsterdam, but it grew from there and just slightly bigger projects, but also still small projects. I don't mind how big or small they are. I just like doing the job that I do. Mostly do it because I like it. There is nothing wrong with showing the world what you can do and what you're good at. And a website is a big part of that.
A huge part of it, especially with the pandemic and lockdowns. And so many companies here went from bricks and mortar to having to get a website together in the first place and for the first time and just a lot of learning. I think it was a very steep learning curve for lots of people. But it, like you said, like you did your own for your other business and it just makes you so empowered to be able to be like, well, how do I wanna portray me and how do we wanna portray the business? And what sort of things could we add on? And it's a living thing. Like you can always change it and adapt it and add to it, which is amazing.
I think a lot of people forget that in terms of websites they're working on it for weeks, sometimes even months. And then they sort of let it go and then they're like, it's finally there. And then they let it be. And that's such a shame because it's always a work in progress, which is amazing on the one hand. And on the other hand, it could also be experienced as tiring because you're like, oh, I still have to do stuff. But I feel like, just make sure that you are a little educated on how to do the smaller things. Like if you have a cool promotion, you can add it on there. Or if you had an event, you could just put the pictures up, like the same night. And especially now, I mean, when I started, it was really like coding, letter for letter coding.
And if you had like one dot placed wrong, literally the website could be gone. And now all these visual builders and all these different platforms where you can build your websites, it's fairly easy. So even if you have someone doing your website, I would say always make sure that you can just do little bits here and there yourself, because it can be an amazing asset for your business while we learn that during the pandemic, no one, I don't have to explain to anyone anymore how important it is to have a website. So that's the upside for me there
Completely. And so you mentioned that you had built the website for a past business, and I was lucky enough to meet you and get to know you through a US mastermind that we both did last year. And I know that Smit Club is not your first business and you've had this incredible career. Like every time that we have talked since, and then you mentioned something you're like, When I was blah, blah, blah. Or when I was living here and I'm like, how many lives have you had? So I would love to know if you could talk us through all the things that you've done, including being on a reality TV show way before reality TV was even a known genre.
I was young back then.
You're still young. We're still young Marre.
I'm not an old woman. No, I feel young. So that's good. The reality TV show was actually in New Zealand. So not too far from where you are least from my perspective, it's not far.
Our neighbors, New Zealand.
Your neighbors, right? That was a lot of fun. It was while I was backpacking, I saw this ad and I was like, actually I was a little bit like, that'd be good. They pay for everything. I just went there and it was a lot of fun and I met some really nice people and we did this show that aired on New Zealand TV. Before reality TV was actually a thing. And it wasn't scripted or anything. So I think that's very different from what they do now. And it's very fun to see myself traveling the world 20 years ago and doing all that. But I don't consider that part of my career. Although I have to say the traveling part was a big part of the business that I had before Smit Club that was called starfish.
And it was a wholesale business in interior design accessories from West Africa, mostly. And I was there in West Africa doing an internship for my study. I studied communication sciences here at the University of Amsterdam. And I always just wanna explore the world and its people and all its cultures. And I love that. And I was babysitting a family that went to West Africa all the time. And one night I said, can you not hook me up somewhere to do an internship? And he was like, sure. I can. So that brought me to Burkina Fuso at Ouagadougou, which is the capital, I mean, is there a cooler name for capital than Ouagadougou? I don't think so.
Well, we have Wagar Wagar here, which is very interesting as well. Very cool.
That's so similar. I didn't know. Is that in Australia?
Yeah. Yep.
I learned something new there. Well, then there are two, like two cities with cool names, at least as well. And then I went there and did the internship and I saw all these beautiful, amazing stuff. And I'm not talking about the sort of touristy things, so not the gym base or wooden cutlery or the postcards that you see with little painted tissue on it or stuff like that, but the stuff that they used for their everyday life, like tiles to bring water from one place to another bucket. Sorry, I'm looking for the word. I think it's a bucket in English.
Yeah. Bucket.
Like big brown tiles also aluminum that the ladies used to sell their stuff at the markets or filled with tomatoes, carrying that on their head, but also rugs the plastic rugs, which I'm sure you can buy now. Well, everywhere around the world really. And I was like, these are super cool. Why don't I bring back a few? And we sold a couple and to our friends, and then we were like, we might turn this into a business, which we did. And we had that business for about 15 years, which was fun, but also that came to an end, but that got me going on the websites, at least that's the wholesale business that I made a website for, and where I learned how fascinating I found that. And I did some other totally different stuff.
I mean, I worked for this financial company where I did the online marketing, and just between you and me and all your listeners that was a very boring job, to be honest, because it was about insurance and trying to find fun things to say about a home or car insurances was very difficult, at least for me. But I also did like marketing for Gucci, sunglasses, and watches. I worked for the business that imported all those. So I've done a lot of different things, but I feel like now, I mean, so I've always been like in the marketing side of the business, I guess, but with websites, I feel like I found something that is always different because I am one of those people that has, I don't know if you know the shiny object syndrome but I'm always, all these ideas and they're like, that's fun.
And with websites, each project is different. Each entrepreneur is different. Each vision is different from people's. And I love doing that. And it hasn't been boring so far and I've been doing this for almost 17 years now. I love it. And I just love how it sort of reinforces people to be proud of their talents and their business. That's what I love the most because it helps people to just throw around their talents a little more, to be a little more proud. And in Holland, we have a saying that says, “just act normal.” That's crazy enough. It is kind of frowned upon when you are like, I'm a web designer and I'm pretty good at that. Or if you say, I design super cool products that everyone wants to buy. People can be a little bit like, look at her being. But I feel like that's so unnecessary. I mean, as long as you don't say that you're good at everything that you do, feel proud of your talents, showcase them, and have an awesome website to do that. I think that's what I love most about the job.
I feel like Amsterdam or the Netherlands and Australia are very similar cuz we have a very similar attitude of like, you got tickets on yourself. Like you think you're so good. If you say anything and I think that's probably what partly bonded us a little bit when we were doing the US mastermind because we were surrounded by Americans who obviously not the entire country, but I feel like Americans have been given some sort of like go out and tell the world how great you are and do it, be confident and do it like that. And I think other countries don't have that sort of instilled in you from a young age. I think what you're saying is, it is so great because you can, you can use a website to showcase what you do and, and be proud of it. And it's such a great tool in business. I mean, it's an essential tool in business.
It's totally essential. And it's literally what I say to some of, well, at least to the Dutch clients that I have, like don't afraid to be a little more American is literally what I say because also my US friends, we have a lot of international people here as well, and they're a lot more natural with just showcasing their talents and they don't feel like they're bragging or something. And I feel like the world sometimes, and especially for small business owners could use a little more of that.
I agree. People need to be out and proud. And so obviously you are insanely creative. Like I love that you just decided, can somebody find me? Or can I get an internship in a totally different country with a totally different culture and language and everything else? And so like I'm wondering, and with all of these different businesses and being able to, you know, just even have the initiative to do your own website so long ago, where has that come from? Whereas all the creativity comes from, have you just always been like that? Were your parents super creative? Did they have their own businesses? Is that what sort of led you to be thinking, that's possible?
Well, I think from my parents' side a little bit, my mom is very creative. Although she grew up, I think in a time and space where I was not as valued as it is right now, she has worked as an interior designer. Has done many creative things and still does. And my dad did run his own business. Not too successfully. I must say, I think he was kind of successful, but then decided he would prefer the security of a “normal job.” But the entrepreneurial spirit has always been there. My grandfather was a business owner, a very successful business owner, I don't know. I feel like creativity has always been some sort of outlet for me in whatever ways he performs that comes. And I think it's very important to go through life without creativity. It must be very hard. And I feel like everyone is creative, to be honest. I mean, some of us have tapped into that a little more, but feel like everyone is creative until a certain point.
I totally agree. And I think if you're in business, any business, you have to be creative naturally in order for the business to keep going. Because you're constantly trying to find solutions and problem solve and try to get curious about something. And even just at the start, a lot of people, most of us start with no investment. We have to try and figure it out ourselves. And so you do end up, trying to build your website or trying to do your graphics or trying to figure out marketing or figure out how to create a beautiful looking market stall or trade show stall just because of sheer necessity.
I totally agree. So I think as for business owners and small business owners you wouldn't survive if you're not creative I guess, but some of us are creative, not in our workspace, but by making music or playing the guitar or just drawing or thinking of funny jokes or whatever. So I feel like it's everywhere. And I have to say I've been to a high school where you could do something like where you could graduate in drawing and music as well. So I think I was never frowned upon.
And then speaking of being creative, let's talk about websites because you're an expert in this field. And I know a lot of people are listening to this who may be sort of either starting a business or in the stage where they finally got the funds to be able to employ an agency to build their website or redo it, sort of like take that next level up. And so I'm wondering if someone is rebranding or starting or whatever they're doing to change things up on their website. Are there any simple things that you would suggest that they consider before they even begin the whole web design process?
I feel like it's been repeated over and over, but I don't think I can say it enough. What I notice a lot is that when people start to think about their website or start to create their website and think about it in terms of messaging or colors or branding, they really take themselves as a starting point for their business instead of their client, which is so important. Not to make that website for yourself, but to actually like to make it for your client. I would always start with just chatting to them really, and just reaching out to some people or previous clients or clients that you have and just ask them about their experience with your service or your product and pay, close attention to what they say, but also the words that they use and use that when you start working on your website, they are the hero of your story.
And I always also say without sounding too heavy that there is always a certain fear involved when people are browsing, whether it's your website or your market store, they wanna know that they're buying something that has actual value. If they buy a product, like a scarf , they wanna know that it's of good quality and that it will not be ruined after putting it in the laundry at one time. Or if they buy a website, they wanna know that it's gonna convert and bring them in. So I would say always focus on removing that fear for everyone that visits your website and you can only know what their fears are and also what their goals are if you chat with them. So ask them, where were you at before we started working together?
And where are you now? So which goals do you have, which fears do you have, and try to take all that into account before you start the actual design? Those would be my main two things. I would say. There's a lot more, obviously, I can chat with you about this whole day, but let's keep it at two, I think that is enough. So I would say talk to your clients, preferably the ones you like most, see what their goals are and what their fears are, and use them as a starting point for your design. So don't always lose, if Pink's your favorite color that does not necessarily have to be on the website if your ideal clients do not like it. I mean, that's a little too practically explained maybe, but I think you get what I mean, right?
Completely get what you mean. And then, I totally agree with those points as well. Like I'm always saying to clients, you should validate anything. Like, don't just think, oh, I know everything. And I've been in this business long enough. I'll just know, I think we could always learn from you just.
That's best to assume that you never know. I think.
Also, I wanted to ask you because you do run this agency Smit Club and this might sound really cheek to ask, but I'm wondering if people are looking to work with an agency, so they're like, you know what, I'm leveling up. I'm gonna put my money in and work with an agency to do their website. Is there a particular stage at which they are ready? Is it that I've just got the cash to spend? Is it I'm trying to transition to this different type of audience or is there a kind of stage in a business where people should invest in a, I don't wanna say like a proper art website, but a beautifully designed website with an agency rather than just trying to do it themselves.
I think you can say a proper website is not that bad because I think it depends. I don't think that when let's say you're just starting out, should you not spend money on a website? I would say it would be one of the essential things to spend money on, but I can also imagine that when you're just starting out, you're like, I don't have like a pile of money lying around to hand over to someone. So I might just start doing it myself. No, I wouldn't say that there is a particular stage. It would just depend on what you think is most important right now. But I think from the perspective of my business and if the pandemic learns does anything, it's so important to be visible online and that doesn't need to be like this whole perfect website with a webshop and a mailing list and all that stuff, you can just start small.
So it doesn't have to be perfect. I tell my clients very often that I don't know if you use the same metric system in Australia, but here, when you go to high school, you could either get like a one on your paper or your grade or whatever. If it's a one it's the lowest you can get. And a 10 is the highest. So I always say seven is also good enough. It's very well up there. It is more than enough. And your seven might be your client's nine. I don't know if this makes sense.
No, it is. It's completely making sense. Yes.
I don't think that there's a specific stage, I mean, if you're gonna work with an agency or with a more professional web designer, obviously it is gonna cost you more. But the output will also be a lot better If you hire the right people.
I totally agree. And I just had a client recently who has done this and has worked with an agency and she showed me the website the other day and it is complete. Like it's I just said to her, wow. And I almost didn't wanna say it. And then we both said it at the same time. And we both said grown up and we're like, this is very grown-up. This is like, polished. And it's just a different level when you're working with professional designers and on that as well. Like, if people are trying to choose the right agency and I know that you work with clients all over the world, so if you're listening to this and you're thinking, she sounds really awesome, but I'm not in Amsterdam. That's fine. Because Marre works for people.
That’s totally fine.
And so what should people be looking for if they're with my clients, I often send them like four or five agencies, whether it's for graphic design or for an actual website, I'll send them different people and I'll say to them, you go and have a look and then if you come back, I can do an introduction or you're welcome to just come. But sometimes people, like, I dunno what to look for when I'm looking on their website. So do you have any tips for people, if they're thinking of choosing an agency, what they should look for?
I think first and foremost just try and have a chat with someone. And if you feel like if the conversation is relaxed and you feel like, I don't wanna say vibing, but I think that is what I mean, if the conversation flows, that's very important. And if the picture that is painted is just not all too positive, because, in all fairness, it's a lot of work to make a beautifully designed website. It is not something that you can do with a tick of the fingers and be like, well, that's done. And there are always gonna be little things that you need to pay attention to. So I would make sure that you get painted a realistic picture. Is that how you say it or a realistic idea of what it's like to old a website and also have a look at the portfolio because a lot of people have a certain style.
Like myself, I love colorful brands and colorful people, but there are also a lot of people who are more into neutrals, maybe. So if you would look at our portfolio, for example, you would hardly see any of those. So if you are looking for that, you could think. maybe not for me. Whereas if you are like a colorful brand and you love to pop out and be present, it would be something that you're like, that looks good. I like this. I like that. So I would say portfolio, I just have a chat. If they're open to having a chat, for me, that'd be very important. You also have agencies and they'll be like, fill in this form and we'll see what we can do. But if you have a chat, it's always different. Right. And don't only look at, if they can provide what I wanna create, but also, could I work with them and will it be like a fun, pleasant working relationship because they're gonna be hard times as well. And let them paint a realistic picture. If it's all like sunshines and unicorns, that'd be a warning sign for me.
I think that kind of goes for any agency or even like a business coach or anything that you're working on.
Totally.
I mean, there's always gonna be kinda the harder parts of it, especially when you're creating something big, like a website.
And I think if you're confident enough and if you know your business very well, and I'm assuming that you have that as well, but being a business coach, then you know that there are gonna be hard sides to it. And if you have a lot of confidence in yourself as a business owner, and I know we make awesome websites, but I also know that there are difficult parts to it. So, just say it, there's nothing wrong with that.
And you have been in this industry like you said for a long time, and you've done this before, but I think now you're sort of formalizing it a little bit in the launch of Web Club. And it's so exciting. And again, love the name and it goes so well with it's just perfectly packaged. And so that is for people who are web designers themselves, is that right? Or wanna become a web designer?
Correct. So that's for people who just wanna be web designers, or maybe they're like virtual assistants doing a lot of stuff on websites and they're like, I like this. I wanna take this further, but also for more advanced people. And it is especially, it's a mentorship and a mastermind for people who just wanna take their business to the next level. So to create a smooth design process, to learn how to raise their prices and feel confident about it, to make sure that you don't get like us as web designers, we sometimes joke with each other. There can be a lot of feedback around what we say that sometimes a client comes and you get another one of those emails and you're like, there we go again. And then they ask, can we do just one more little thing, but so how can you avoid that?
How can you have a good process in which the expectations that a client has from designing the website, but also that you, yourself, as a designer have that it runs smooth and that it has boundaries, which can be difficult for a lot of people, especially if you're starting out. So this mentorship and mastermind are for that. And it's also based on the fact that as a web designer, usually, it's just you and your computer, right. You're just sitting there and loving the job and doing it like headphones on and just working that code. But it can also be so fun to just chat with other people. And I feel like sometimes we're a little scared to do that because we're like, is that person gonna steal my next client? Or am I not gonna be, are we gonna fight over the same clients?
But I feel like there's an abundance of work, especially now that we don't have to convince anyone any more of the importance of having a website and everyone has their own style. So let's not do it all alone and join the club, join our club and just learn from each other. That's the basics of what Web Club can be for all the web designers out there. So I'm super excited to do this launch. It has been in the making for a long time and now we'll go from here. We'll be doing it, we're starting the first run pretty soon.
So exciting. And we'll link to all of that in the show notes as well. And I just think, any time spent with you, it's amazing. Let alone being like this consistent time is spent with you to talk about your business and everything else. You're so welcome.
I've been around the block. You can ask anything. I mean, this is also one of the benefits of growing up in the Netherlands and just being part of that bluntness that people always have, honesty is very valued here. So you can just basically ask and say anything without being judged or having a fear that, oh, that's from the question that I should already know. There's none of that in the Web Club.
So good. And another thing that I really love about, I mean, it's just very different. Like you live in the middle of Europe. I live on the other side of the world, but I remember when we first met through the mastermind, and then we were just chatting to ourselves on WhatsApp and you were like, I'm off to Paris tonight. And I was like, you can just go to another country and it's just you travel a lot. And even through the pandemic, you're so social. And again, when we met and I sort of started stalking your Instagram and I went right back to the beginning and I was seeing you in all these incredible places like Japan and parts of Africa and all these different places and with your family as well. And so you are, you're very much into traveling.
You're very much into creatives and art and you're always out seeing things and you're social and you've got your family close by that you spend a lot of time with, you're also a mom, three kids, you have a partner you're very into fitness as well. And then you've got the business as well. And so with everything going on, including various lockdowns that have been happening, I'm just wondering, how have you found time for yourself? And then if you have been able to do that, what sort of advice would you give to someone who maybe is feeling like, I've got so much going on and I wanna do so as well. Like how have you managed to do it?
That's I mean, that's a million-dollar question, right? Sometimes it's been a lot, but what I personally did is I walk everywhere now instead of riding a bike, which is very common. Everything is super close here and we ride our bikes everywhere. I think there are more bikes than people in this city. And I started walking everywhere and not as much the walking is what made the difference, but that it just takes a little to get where you're going. So I have time to just be quiet a little bit and be on my own because, to be honest, three kids, a partner, a business, and then a lockdown homeschooling, we've all been there. It's a lot. So if you can go out and have a little walk that has helped me tremendously also exercising whenever.
I mean, during the lockdowns, that was obviously not possible. And I have to say, I don't particularly like to exercise, but I just love the feeling I get from it. Like the endorphins. I need them. And I never thought I'd be the person to say that, but here I am saying it right. And other days it's just, Fiona, to be honest, we all have those days where you're like, okay, it's never gonna finish. It's never gonna work out. I have a gazillion things to do. When am I gonna do it? And then, a kid comes home from school or you have a client project that runs over the deadline and that happens. That just happens too. I mean, I can't make that better other than just realizing that everyone has that, because sometimes it's as if other people have got everything sorted and covered and arranged and you're like, look at me, not finishing all the stuff I wanna do, but I think aren't, we all there, I try and focus on the fact that everyone has the same chisel going on, even though it seems like they don't.
That is so true. And I think as a business coach, it's so nice because I get to see the insides of so many clients as businesses and see that everybody has things that they wanna fix. Everybody has things that aren't going well, everybody has worries about being an imposter or having comparisons or thinking they're not far long enough for how many years they've been in business. Everybody goes through it. So I think it's such an important point that you make. It's just everyone.
It's hard. I don't know. Walking has helped me tremendously. So, and I also feel like, don't feel guilty. I think this is especially valid for moms that are also small business owners. Don't feel too guilty about taking just a little time for yourself because it will benefit not only you, but everyone I've noticed, but I have to say my kids are a little older than they're really small when they're all under six. So it's a little easier now. Let go of the guilt in you. That's serving no one.
I'm totally making that quote, let go of the guilt it's serving no one. I feel like I need to remind myself of that too.
But now it sounds like it’s really cool. But there are always days when I'm like, look at me. Having to take twice as long because I wanna walk somewhere and then my kid has to wait or my partner has to wait or whatever. So I mean, it's not like old days are like that, but just try and remember that.
And I have a lot of our friendship and I just love our friendship. Like, you know that. I just feel like it was just the best thing to come outta that whole mastermind.
It was Fiona. It definitely was without a doubt.
And you have been like such an incredible friend to me. And I feel like we have so many things in common, including our businesses, which is what we talk about a bit as well. And every time I've come to you with a business challenge or stressing about something or just a curiosity like, I dunno if I should do this or this you, your advice is always so spot on. And so I'm wondering outside of the mastermind that we both did, have you had any mentors or mantras or books even, or like a film or anything that has like really helped you build your business or the other businesses that you had?
Good question. I think I don't read as many books as I sometimes think I should on business. I love reading novels that don't require too much brain attention, to be honest, because I just do it for relaxing. But one business book that stood out that I recommend to everyone is You are a Badass by Jen Sincero. I think that's how you pronounce her name because I feel like it's out of all the self-help books, it's very practical and pragmatic, which I am as well. So it's very, it doesn't beat around the bush, I think is how you say that. It goes straight to the point and she has another one. You are a Badass at Making Money as well. So I've read both of those. And I think also the prophet's first method, which is a book, I don't recall the author, but I'm assuming that most small business owners have heard of it, which is where you look at your finances and sort of divide them into different buckets for investments, for costs, for-profit, for your salary.
That also made a big impact. And other than that, I invested, which at that time I was like, am I really gonna spend 2000 euros on this business coach? And what is it gonna help me with? And I also literally said that the woman must have gone crazy. But that's honesty. I was like, well, you know what? Instead of sitting here, I could also work and make money. So I'm kind of scared. What's this gonna bring me? And it was actually the kickstart of the next level of my business. Because when someone from the outside looks at the business and can ask questions that are somewhere in the back of your head, at that point, I was working together with this developer and he just, it was just energy draining.
And I never had the courage to say, “you know what, this is not working between us. We need to stop this corporation.” I was just scared that he would take all the websites or ruin stuff for my clients or whatever. And obviously, he never did because he's also just like a normal person. So little stuff like that. And a little advice. She was a big help. It's been a while ago. So I would say those two books and that first investment in the business coach, I've never had business coaching after, but I mean, you are my good friend and you are like one of the best business coaches out there, so I don't need anymore. Now I get free coaching whenever I want. No, I'm joking. But I think that has helped me tremendously. Just someone, like putting the finger on the spot where it hurts. I don't know if that translates very well.
No, I love that. And I also think when I first invested in a business coach a while ago now, she was in the UK actually, and it was huge because it was in pounds as well, which is always double. You feel sort of sick. I totally get it. I've totally been there before. When I talk to my clients, I'm like, I get it. This is a big amount of money and there's a risk. You're like, what if we don't get on? Like maybe I just like her stuff on Instagram, but in real life, I'm not going to. And I remember the very first time I had to be really early in the morning, it was like 4:45. I had to be on the call and I got all dressed up. And then I realized she doesn't do video calls. It was just audio. And I was like, what? I'm paying all this money and it's just audio. But within that first call, I was like, she's gonna teach me so much. And I think it's also just putting that in and being like, I'm investing like, this is worth taking.
You are taking your business seriously. And it's the same thing on the website. Of course, you can start and do your own website and do a pretty decent job from the get-go and just start from there and just figure it all out. But as soon as you're invested in yourself and your business, and you're gonna put your money where your mouth is, in the end, It's gonna pay off. I am sure of that.
And so you've been in business for some time, including your other businesses as well for like decades, I would love to know, maybe, particularly with Smit Club, what are you most proud of from your journey as a small business owner?
I think that's two-sided. On the one hand I'm so proud of seeing, and those are especially the smaller business owners that I have helped and seen grow because they have that website and they feel more confident in their business because it's also out there online and looks professional. And then, as a result, they feel more professional and then it grows and then their website gets more professional. And the way that grows that is just, I get such a kick out of that when people are proud of what they do and are not. Not scared to just mention that and say, look at me here I am. This is what I do and, and what I'm good at. So that's on the one hand. And on the other hand, I am just proud of how far I've gotten, because being an entrepreneur, as you know, is not easy and there is I think a lot of sort of self-development is also involved in being a business owner.
I don't think you can run a successful business if you never look inwards. So from where I am now with the agency with Web Club launching, I have such awesome clients who make the world a brighter, more colorful, more fun place to be in. And I've all done that by myself. And obviously, I have a great team now that also does these things, but the initiative and the origin is just from within me like it's also within those clients who are growing their business and feeling confident about it. So I feel like those would be the two main things.
So good to chat to you, but before we go, I'd love to know, like, if people are listening and they're thinking I'd really like to connect with her, whether it's for Web Club, if they're a website designer or they want to be, or if it's for speak club and they want you to help in website and branding, where is the best place to connect and then also like, what's next for you? What's coming up?
The best place to connect would be either on Instagram, which is @SmitClub. Most of my posts are in Dutch. Well, most of them are in Dutch, but as you know, Fiona, you can translate them.
Yes, get the little view translation, which I often do with your post.
And you can still hit it. You can find me on smitclub.nl, which is a website that also has English, like a little flag in the corner. So if you tick that, you'll see a few of the pages in English and you can book a call there or just flip to the portfolio. I would love to connect with your listeners. So feel free, if there are any questions or concerns you might have feel free to be in touch because I'd love to, and what's next. I am right in the middle of this Web Club launch and that's an exciting venture. I'm going on because I'd love to just help, not only small business owners to be proud of what they do in their work, but also web designers and to come from a place where there is enough work for everyone.
So we don't need to sort of challenge each other. Those Facebook posts where they're like asking for a web designer and you see like a gazillion replies underneath and everyone sort of linking their portfolio and just hoping that they have the right prices on there. And just from a place of abundance, I guess, to guide people and to just make the internet a little more fun and a little more colorful altogether. So beyond that, I'm not really looking yet. I'm like, dead smack in the middle of this Web Club launch and trying to love it as much as I can, although there are also days where you're like, is this ever gonna work out? But let's focus on the positive and start that. Let's get that going.
And I'm gonna put you on the spot and I didn't tell you about this question, but I know that so many people, including myself, are wanting to travel again. And my friend is in London at the moment and I just messaged her the other day saying, what does it feel like to get on a plane? Because especially from Australia, we have not been able to travel for so long. And I'm wondering as a local, is there one thing that people should do if they're coming to Amsterdam? Like I know I'm sure there's like so many things you would say, but is there one place, one thing that you would say you have to do this, and it might not be necessary in the tourist books or things elsewhere that they could find.
What I personally love is just taking a small boat and going on the canals. So not the big ones, not the ones where you get sucked into as a tourist, although they're also fun, they're little roots or the root, I think is the word for like the ways they choose to sail on the canal is always the same. I just love it. Even when I'm there, I'm like, I live here. It's so pretty to try and find a day with a little bit of sunshine. We don't get those too often, but they are there. Do the boat. And that's what I would say. And maybe go to the shops and eat like a stroopwafel. It's like a local cookie that we have with caramel inside. Really good.
Maybe do both, maybe go and get one of them to take away and then go on a boat.
Yes, you could totally do that. And I think a lot of people get on bikes. I mean, the city is super bike-friendly, but just be aware that the Dutchies are biking to work on groceries and picking up the kids so they can move over. I think the boat is really nice. The museums and the art. People all know that. I would say the boat.
Amazing. I'm gonna do that hopefully with you. At some point in the not too distant
I'm sure we will. Someday we will.
Someday. And thank you so much for coming on and making time in your day, especially when you're not well and you're quarantining, but I really appreciate it as do I appreciate every one of our chats.
Thank you. And thanks for the invite. I feel kind of proud to be in your little My Daily Business Coach club and on the podcast with all these amazing interviews that you do. Can wait, thank you so much, Fiona.
Thank you. Bye.
Bye.
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I love Marre. I just love chatting with her and I hope you enjoyed this episode. I would love to know what you took away from it and I'm sure Marre would love to know as well. So don't be a stranger. You can find her @SmitClub and we will link to that in the show notes on Instagram. And you can find me at @mydailybusinesscoach on Instagram as well. So don't be a stranger. Come on over I mean, feel free to do a group chat with the two of us if you like. I think there were so many things that stood out for me, but some really key things that I think would be super helpful for anyone who's listening are I loved that she talked about her husband mentioning her business at his gym, and that was the first kind of client that said, “Hey, in return for his gym membership, you could do website.”
And I love just that her husband talked about her business and was like, that's what my wife likes doing. And you might need it. And I think so often, especially in this world of social media, I talk to clients who are like, I just need to get 10,000 followers or I just need to get to this amount of people. And on this platform, I need to do 50 reels a week because then I can get the views. And sometimes we forget that there are a whole bunch of people in our audience, in our everyday normal life. Perhaps we are a nutritionist who works with children, like fussy children who don't eat, putting up my hand. One of my kids is exactly in that phase at the moment. And perhaps you are like, I drop my kids off at childcare three times a week.
And you're like, this is my audience here. They are at my childcare. Could I potentially talk to the center manager and say, I'd love to run a group evening or answer questions from parents. Perhaps you might put something into their newsletter that's going out to parents. And so sometimes we can forget all these other parts of marketing. And I think a lot of that is driven by social media. And I hate, I'm always like, love, hate relationship with social media. But I just think that I worked in marketing long before social media came along and I think sometimes people forget that there are other ways to market and get yourself out there as opposed to just social media. So I love that example of her husband just saying it at the gym that he goes to and that that's still a paying client.
So yes, initially it might have been like, what, he gets a gym membership in return for you creating a website, which the website may be a lot more money than a gym membership, but that has been an ongoing client now for years and years and years. So I love that idea of also being open with your friends and family. I'm often saying to people, do friends and family know what you do because sometimes we can just send an email out to my first client, that I ever started within My Daily Business was a friend of a family member. And I met with them multiple times and worked with them for six or seven months. And that was really the kickstart that I needed. I knew that I had enough work with them, that I could then build up the business. So, don't forget about that element of our everyday offscreen lives that I have happening.
So it's such a good example. And then the other thing, and it's really apparent in the way that Marre talks about her business is that she talked about being proud of showing off what you do well and that a website is a great way to do that. And that is what she most loves when her clients feel more confident to show up as who they are. And to say things to, for example, the center manager at childcare, because they've got a website that they're really proud of. I know that we are going through a change in our website at mydailybusinesscoach.com and we've had the same website for ages. And I definitely know that feeling of not feeling super proud of your website and wanting things to be changed. And I can't wait until they are and I can feel super proud of it again.
And I definitely also know that a website can be something that you're like, well, it's working good enough, but I just can see, I've seen it recently in a couple of clients as well, who have gone through the process of updating their website. And it just looks incredible. And their first website looked good as well, but it's just sort of elevated at all. And I think that is something that so many of us do, you can kind of get stuck in a business with a website that you don't really love. And I just love that Marre kind of reiterated that point of, you wanna be proud, you wanna be confident and you wanna be clear in your messaging and you can get all that by working with somebody like Marre and somebody on your website. But I also love just the idea that she talked about, that's what lights her up, feels this sense of, I'm actually helping these people, and then it's this ripple effect.
They're more confident showing up and then they're potentially inspiring all these other people around them. So I love that kinda like the why of her business. And I think that's something for all of us to remember. Sometimes we can get just so caught up in the day-to-day and forget how much of an impact we are having as business owners. I love that reminder from Marre so, as I said, Marre is just such a good friend of mine and such an incredible business owner and the websites and brands that she helps create are just beautiful. And you can find everything about her business over at Smit Club, smitclub.nl/en if you are English speaking, if you are not, if you are Dutch and you understand that you can just go to smitclub.nl, and of course will link to that in the show notes.
And as I said before, if you'd like to connect with Marre on Instagram, you can find her @SmitClub. And it's all one word S M I T C L U B. We'll link to all of this in the show notes, and you'll be able to find those in full, over at mydailybusinesscoach.com/podcast/198. Thank you again Marre for coming on and thank you for being such a good friend. I can't wait to hear all the feedback that we get about this episode. Thank you so much for listening. I'll see you next time. Bye.
Thanks for listening to the My Daily Business Coach podcast. If you wanna get in touch, you can do that at mydailybusinesscoach.com or hit me up on Instagram @mydailycoach.
