Episode 226: Find what you love and everything else will fall into place with Shini Pararajasingham of Off The Kerb
Go and be human with other humans. In today's episode, Fiona talks to Shini Pararajasingham, founder of Off The Kerb. They chat about how Off The Kerb started, share tips with business owners, and how to turn art into a career and sustain it. Tune in!
Topics discussed in this episode:
Introduction
How Off the Kerb started
How to treat art as a career and sustain it
On Collaboration
How to contact Shini
Shini's advice to fellow business owners
Resources that helped Shini
What's next for Off the Kerb
Conclusion
Get in touch with My Daily Business Coach
Resources and Recommendations mentioned in this episode:
Shini Pararajasingham
@OffTheKerb on Instagram
Shini - Instagram
Peter Frey
Anne Elliot
Rosemary
David McLean
Winitha Bonney – Previous episode
If you find your passion, your dream career, or whatever you're excited about, your mental strength will be steadfast. As long as you find what you love, everything else will fall into place. After the big wall collapsed in 2013, I never took anything for granted. I used to complain a lot about being stressed all the time. I used to whinge about art as being disorganized. I soon realized that there's nothing else I'd rather be doing than this. I wouldn't put a suit on and go back to the corporate world. That was not being my authentic self. There was no other alternative. This is it.
Welcome to episode 226 of the My Daily Business Coach podcast. I help small business owners nail their systems, their marketing, their processes, and their branding in a way that doesn't make them gag. If you are reading this and you're thinking, “I need some help and I would love to work with Fiona,” take yourself on over to MyDailyBusinessCoach.com and you'll find all sorts of ways that we can help you from content plans to working with me one on one.
This is an interview with a small business owner. This is somebody that I had on my list before I even began this podcast. We’re over two years into this podcast. I finally was able to get her on to the podcast. No fault of hers. We've had a few issues with me not being able to turn up on certain dates. She's here and the amount of information and wisdom that is shared is fantastic. I'm excited to be bringing you this episode.
Before we get stuck into that, of course, I want to acknowledge the traditional owners and custodians of the beautiful land in which I live, play, and get to record this podcast and that is the Wurundjeri and Wurrung people of the Kulin nation. I pay my respects to their elders, past, present, and emerging, and acknowledge that sovereignty has never been ceded. I also pledge as a small business owner to work in ways that do aid in true equality for First Nations people. Let's get on to this podcast interview and you can find out who I'm talking about.
My guest is the wonderful Shini Pararajasingham, the Founder of Off the Kerb Gallery. She is an artist in her own right but has also helped so many artists and creatives get their work out into the world to connect and understand business. She does a lot of mentoring to understand, what are they trying to do with their art? How can they best connect with their audience? Off the Kerb Gallery is an amazing place and cultivating the connections and the creativity that those artists need to be able to succeed in whatever it is that they're trying to do with their art.
I first met Shini in an interesting way. Back in 2009, my husband and I were leaving to live in London and we could not take my husband's cat, Rani, so I put out a message on Facebook. Before that, I had interviewed, Dhini, Shini’s twin sister, another amazing creative, for the age column I had, for a fashion journal, or in various magazines that I was writing about fashion. Dhini had shared it with Shini, who then came to my parent’s house where we were living before we left to go to London. She talked to Rani and had this great connection with Rani the cat.
I have to say, Shini was amazing. She took on Rani and we left for London. Shini would send us these emails that seemed so far from the cat that I had known. Rani, with Shini, took on a whole new personality. For me, this cat was standoffish, especially because she maybe was jealous that I crept in on her territory with my husband. She never let me pet her or anything. With Shini, Rani became an Off the Kerb Gallery cat.
We went to visit Shini when we came back from London. We were both shocked. There were all these artworks of Rani the cat that all these different artists had done. It was incredible. We're like, “Shini, you are like a magician because this cat was so standoffish.” With Shin, it’s beautiful, coming in her car, traveling everywhere, being around people and not scurrying off, a very different life that she had. Thank you so much, Shini. Outside of being incredible with animals, Shini is also incredible with people, being able to nurture and give people enough stern advice that they might need to progress to the next level in their creative career.
I wanted to get Shini to come in. She's run Off the Kerb Gallery, which if you're in Melbourne and you're in the creative space, you will very well know. It's almost at the corner of Johnson and Wellington Street in Collingwood. It has been a stalwart for artists. It has been a place where so many artists, emerging and mid-career, get to understand what they need next to progress in their careers as an artist.
I wanted to get Shini to come in and talk about what it’s taken to survive in business for over fifteen years. How did she go with the pandemic opening and closing galleries and all these things that people weren't able to get to because of lockdowns and restrictions? Also, what does it take for somebody to get their art into a gallery these days? I speak with a lot of artists and a lot of creatives who would love to have an exhibition but have no idea where to start.
I wanted to ask Shini to come in and share her wisdom, her knowledge, and her expertise. She did so much of that in this episode. At one point, I found myself in tears, in a good way. Shini is a wealth of information. She is a beautiful soul. If you are lucky enough to be near Collingwood, go in and check out Off the Kerb Gallery. They always have beautiful artworks and beautiful exhibitions. This 2022, Shini is also doing so many exhibitions for charity as well. Check that out.
You can find all the information on their Instagram, which is @OffTheKerb. You can go to the website, OffTheKerb.com.au. Let's get into it so that you can learn about all this wisdom and all these insights that I'm talking about. This is my interview with the wonderful Shini Pararajasingham from Off the Kerb Gallery.
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Hello, Shini. How are you feeling? Welcome to the podcast.
Thanks so much, Fiona, for having me on.
You're welcome. I'm excited. You were definitely on my list before I began this podcast. I'm excited to talk to you. Where are you chatting to us from?
We’re in the office of Off the Kerb Gallery, the HQ where everything happens.
I mentioned in the intro in such a weird way that we met through a cat but also through your sister. It's fascinating. I'd love to have you tell us a bit more about your business. How did it start? When did it start? You've been doing this for some time. Also, why did it start? What led you to create Off the Kerb?
I started Off the Kerb in April 2007 soon after I graduated in fine art at Monash uni in 2004. As most artists feel, I felt quite overwhelmed at where to start. At that time, there were about four artists in one gallery and about eight commercial galleries in Melbourne. As a new graduate, there's almost no way of getting representation at a commercial gallery. You try your luck in an artist-run space. Because there were few spaces, it was very competitive.
I remember the first exhibition proposal I submitted. I received a one-liner rejection and it flattened me. A series of rejections thereafter made me realize that there was a real gap in the market for emerging artists. I then got my first acceptance to exhibit in an artist-run space but I found it unsupportive. The gallery door was unlocked but there was no one there to greet me or support me. I remember a single ladder standing in the middle of the room. I had to bring my own tools and work out my curation all on my own. On my first time exhibiting, I was completely out of my comfort zone.
At that time, I had a side hustle job, a corporate job, which happened to be a real learning curve for me. I would say that contributed a lot to the knowledge I had when I started the gallery in 2007 and also the knowledge that I take with me moving forward. An opportunity arose somewhere around 2005. A school friend of mine from Monash was selling his own gallery that he had started. He approached me and four other peers from art school to take over. We formed a partnership. Soon, I realized that the partnership was not right for me. Their goals were different from mine. After about eight months, I left them. I realized it was time for me to open up my own space.
From all that experience of being rejected, from exhibitions as an emerging artist to certain gallery showings as well as that business partnership I had and the work I did on the corporate side hustle role, I got so much experience as to what was needed in a gallery that I was to create. I designed my own model.
Off the Kerb was a hybrid between an artist-run space and a commercial gallery. At that time, there was no such space. You either had an artist-run or a commercial. With this hybrid model, I picked all the things that worked in a commercial model and all the things that worked in an artist-run space. I created an innovative approach that would fill the gap in the market and provide opportunities for emerging artists whether they got accepted to show or not.
You can tell. You're passionate about that. Thank you for going through your own challenges as somebody who came out of a fine arts degree because it's something that isn't talked about enough. My husband also did fine arts at VCA. I remember him saying, “If you come out and you don't have all the networks that certain people have because of whatever privileges they've had, it's almost impossible.” He's like, “You have to go to everything and suck up to everyone.” He said that you don't get that support. You’re pushed out.
You are insanely creative. Your whole life is dedicated to fostering that. You started in 2007. You're a full-blown teenager of your business. Where did this love of art and creativity come from? Is that something you've always had even when you were a kid? Were your parents creative? Did they run businesses? As you said, 120 people graduate every year and there's very little space. A lot of them will then go on to become graphic designers or other things that are more commercially viable, all seem to be. What was it about the upbringing that made you feel this was something you could do?
There was absolutely no visual art or creativity on either side of the family. In a way, I was a freak of nature. My maternal grandmother was creative with sewing clothes and dolls for us growing up. From a very young age, 5 or 6, I loved sewing. I still value that skill today. It's useful. My dad was business oriented. This is where I get my business brain from. Business is something you can't get taught. You've got to have it naturally. You could go to university and learn all this stuff. If you don't have it in you, that sustaining power may not be there. I can just speak for myself.
Before I went to art school in the late ‘90s, I did a double degree in arts and business marketing. Who would’ve thought it? No one in the art community knows this bit about me. Thank you that I get this. It was because I wasn't encouraged to be an artist and to follow my dreams. That was not the thing in our family. In a way, I was coerced into this study of business because of my father's influence. Today, looking back, I don't regret the four years of studying for that double degree because learning is vital.
At the time, I was just 19 or 20 years old. I had no passion for business. It was such a drain. I remember failing accounting two times. I had to repeat it. The second time I failed it was worst than the first time. The third time, I barely passed. I was under 50 and they passed me because they wanted me out of there. On the art side of that degree, I majored in psychology. I loved that and I wanted to pursue it. I wasn't encouraged because it was not familiar in my family and the way I was brought up.
After graduating with that business degree, I felt lost in my career and what I was going to do with my future. I took this gap year and I took an opportunity that fell in my lap. This was in 1998, teaching English in Japan. Japan opened up its borders to the Western world at that time and they needed a lot of English teachers to come in and lift the standard of English spoken in the country. You just need a double degree. You didn't even need an English teaching degree.
At 23, I was so young. It was such a great experience. I got to travel, have fun, and explore. Getting lost in Japan for two years helped me find my way to what I needed to do with my life. I decided to come straight back to Melbourne and apply to Monash for a fine art painting course. I was interested in that course because they had this scholarship where you could study for a semester in Italy. I wanted to learn about some of the great Renaissance painters. I got in. I had a lot of luck on my side at that time.
From that point onwards, I was engaged, passionate, and driven. I knew exactly what I wanted and I went for it. Getting back to your point about fostering creativity in the artists that I work with, in a way, because I didn't get support and encouragement from my own family, I overcompensate by fostering that in the artists I work with. I act like a bit of an art mama. Often, that love can be quite tough, the love that I give to the art.
I absolutely adore the art community. They're doing great things. I can also be quite a tough critic. It doesn't work well sometimes. After fifteen years, the art community now gets me and they understand where I'm coming from. I've got their best interests at heart. There's mutual respect. I'm glad I get to do that, the fostering element of this job as a gallery director. I don't think it's just one role you play. There are multiple roles to think in this environment.
It’s 2007 when you started. That's the same year smartphones launched. We didn't have social media. We didn't have all the things that artists now have to navigate as well. I imagine that in all industries, there is a comparison. Probably in art, especially when you're talking about the competition, the lack of visibility of sharing your art and getting into spaces and having to also deal with people's confidence and everything else. You would be part psychologist, part art gallery owner, and part all these things. I can imagine that it is hard sometimes to be that tough love.
Some of the toughest managers that I worked with also taught me the most when I look back. It was one, in particular, which you were nothing like. I do feel like that was hard but it also taught me so much. I often think about things that she said and I'm like, “Yes, that was harsh at the time but it changed the way that I looked at things going forward. It's helped me.”
With all of this, you're someone who can make an artist’s career and you have. My husband and I went to visit you and saw the space and the number of artists that have come up through Off the Kerb Gallery. I'm wondering, how do you select which artists are right for your gallery knowing that you have personally seen firsthand how hard it is to get accepted? How do you accept them? Also, for anyone reading this who dreams of having an exhibition in a place like Off the Kerb Gallery, what things are important for an artist to treat their art as a career and then sustain it?
So for artists who dream of getting a shirt Off the Kerb. My advice would be, to make sure it's the right space for you, where you can actually grow and develop and feel authentic. So do your research and gallery hop around, meet the directors, chat to them, and then make your conclusions about finding the right space, like finding the right partner. And if you find that Off the Kerb is a match. Be open to pushing boundaries, be committed, be organized, and take any advice I can offer. I'm working with you. It's a partnership in many ways because I feel I've learned so much through mistakes I've made in the arts over all these years.
I want to share the knowledge from my learning, with my art community. Off the Kerb is my soul career. I'm lucky I don't need a side hustle job. I can't emphasize enough that commitment to do the hard yards, being organized, and meeting deadlines. Those are key. Meeting deadlines is a huge thing. I find it's an issue in the arts community. If you find that you are the sort of person who just can't make deadlines, create a fake deadline for yourself, and make the deadline two days before the actual deadline. So you have some wiggle space.
Also, be a nice person to work with. People want to work with nice people, especially after the last two years of COVID, when we're all quite worn out and exhausted, we just want a supportive community and we wanna build a supportive community, not only talent but attitude. At the start of my journey, I said yes to everything. So if you are new in the art environment, I would say, just say yes to everything and deliver it for me. Non-delivery was never an option. So I would just work to the bone I'd work days on end hours on end just to deliver and fulfill promises. So that's my advice. And you can make a career off your art if you follow these very simple steps.
I can see you're being humble there. I get the point that you're saying. I also think it's important to celebrate that you are. I always think of this one particular guy at The Age newspaper. Peter Frey was the editor of The Sunday Age. He was my editor when I got my column. He said, “I know that you're not perfect for this column. I know that you're new. You haven't had a newspaper column before. I'm going to give you a chance, Killackey.” He did. It created so many opportunities for me. It's important what you're saying. You also do help people a lot.
Thank you. That's lovely. It's all about collaboration and mutual respect. When you've got that mutual respect, there's always going to be a success in the end. In terms of selecting the right artists for Off the Kerb, I say this to every creative I work with and everyone who comes to the gallery asking about having the show here. Finding the right artist or the right gallery is like finding the right partner. Not everyone is going to be right for you. There's always going to be an artist or gallery for one or the other. Because Melbourne is prolific with the arts landscape, we’re blessed with all the creative spaces around.
For Off the Kerb, I select artists based on the work I like myself, stuff that I would buy myself and hang up in my own space. Of course, I'm particular about technical skills. Because I'm also a practicing artist myself, I can see technical strengths and technical weaknesses. I want to work with an artist who I feel I can develop because that's authentic. If I can help someone get to the next level, then that's going to be a long and successful relationship.
There are going to be artists who I know I'm not going to work with as well but I always want to give them a chance because anything could come from it. They might be a little bit shy or not open to some of my harsh criticisms, which is tough love stuff. I find new ways of delivering things in a gentle way. Giving them one opportunity might give them another opportunity elsewhere.
Also, from the time I book an artist into our programming, we will often have multiple meetings. They might be in the artist studio or here at a site meeting at the gallery. I value the collaborative element or the relationship between artists and galleries. I find that often creatives are in their space making their work and they don't have support or any fresh energy that they can bounce ideas off. I find that lovely creative outlet for myself. It's nice to get away from the office mundane and go visit an artist and their studio and brainstorm some ideas.
Especially in this time with social media, there's so much noise out there and it's important to stand out from the rest. When I'm flicking through social media and I'm seeing things and it feels derivative, that irks me quite a lot. I was formally trained with my own art and education. The derivative stuff gets me and it's a dime a dozen stuff. I want to make sure the artists are on the right path and they're not deriving things for the sake of making money.
How do they contact you in this day and age? Are people contacting you on social media? Are they coming into the gallery? Do they come through networks? Is there certain technical stuff and ability that they're not derivatives of other work? I'm wondering, what's the best way to approach you particularly maybe if someone's reading this who isn't able to physically get to Collingwood?
I often get DMs on my Instagram and Facebook. There are multiple ways of getting to me but I'm not encouraging that. It can be a little bit overwhelming for me as well. On the gallery website, on the front page, there’s a call out to artists to apply. Even with our social media, we'll put a post inviting artists to apply to the exhibit. We’re encouraging the merging to mid-career because that's what Off the Kerb is all about. We want to support emerging artists as well as mid-career artists.
The established artists know what they're doing and they’ve got representation in the gallery. I want willing to support this group, a group that has some amazing ideas. That's how you contact me if you're not in Melbourne. If you're in Melbourne, come to the gallery. I'm always in the office. I love being in the office. Wander in and have a chat. If I look crazy busy, I'll tell you, I'm crazy busy.
You can find out how to apply on the homepage of OffTheKerb.com.au. Thank you so much for telling people that because sometimes people can get in their own way and freeze and be like, “I have no idea how to even start this.” Even though it may be as simple as like, “I'm going to go to their website and go through the application.” People can get scared.
I hope that when people come through the front doors, it's a warm and welcoming space. It's not a cold space. I've had that feedback. Get out and come in and come meet me. I’m tiny and not at all intimidating.
I was saying before that you should have a meditation audio program because you have such a beautiful voice. In person, you're so warm. You're grounded and genuine. Thank you.
Thank you.
I'm saying the truth here. The other thing is you mentioned the gallery. It's a huge part of the business. You had to open and close many places many times during the Melbourne lockdowns. For anyone who wasn't aware of it, Melbourne was locked down the most out of any city in the whole world for the longest amount of time.
You probably have had other challenges running this business, whether it was locked down or various challenges that must have come along your way purely from being in business for over fifteen years. How have you mentally stayed strong? How have you managed to keep going? If somebody is reading this who is in that moment of, “It's all too much hard work,” what advice would you give them?
I had one of the greatest challenges well before the Victorian lockdowns. In many ways, that prepared me for what was to come. In 2013, the gallery's entire west wall collapsed. Structural engineers from the city of Yarra came in and they said to me that it was the biggest building collapse they've ever experienced in the last twenty-odd years. That was pretty insane. I had to work hard with the owners of the building to rebuild it.
This property is only one of many in their property portfolio. They didn't care about it. They were based in the country as well. They didn't know anything about this building. It was managed by a non-present agent. I worked hard for two months working with counsel and I acted on behalf of the owners. In the end, they were pretty grateful for us. They didn't know much about the city Yarra. I'd already been working in the city of Yarra for over seven years in the business. That incredible chapter of Off the Kerb’s history got me ready for these two and a half years of COVID-19.
I also wanted to add this, which I haven't spoken about much at all to the art community and in Melbourne. I want to acknowledge my history. I'd had a huge part in building my resilience to face all of this. My family and I got to end up living in Australia because of a civil war in my country of birth, which is Sri Lanka. For my entire childhood, from about 7 years old until 15 years old when we arrived in Australia, we kept moving from country to country to find a new, safe, and stable home. That experience gave me all these survival skills as my foundations today.
It was a traumatic experience going through war, but in a way, I'm grateful for that experience because it's made me who I am today. This time, which is going to be in the history books, all our kids and grandkids are going to be learning about this, I hope it gives privileged Australians the resilience to face the future.
I also use gratitude a lot in my sentences. I'm really grateful that our family finally landed in Australia of all countries, and that we were given the means to pursue our dreams here. What I want to tell the artists community, I want to share this bit of advice. If you find your passion, your dream career, or whatever you're excited about, your mental strength will be steadfast. As long as you find what you love, everything else will fall into place.
After the big wall collapse in 2013, I never took anything for granted. I used to complain a lot about being stressed all the time. I used to whinge about artists being disorganized, but I soon realized that there's nothing else I'd rather be doing than this. I wouldn't want to put a suit on and go back into the corporate world. That was not being my authentic self. There was no other alternative. This is it. Everyone needs to go out and find their passion. Fear is always something that gets in the way of that exciting discovery. Kick that fear and go find your dream, it will eventually serve you. Living with gratitude, don't take anything for granted especially in a country so privileged as Australia.
Shini, I was crying as you were talking. It was so heartfelt and beautiful. Thank you for sharing your background and all of the challenges that you've faced in this war and everything else. Firstly, Australia is lucky that you ended up where you did because you're adding so much to the creative community here.
I've never gone through war. I'm incredibly privileged and have not had to deal with that. I can only imagine that that does set you up, not that you want to take anything good from war but if there could be some lesson in that. You have got this resilience and strength and this ability to see what is important versus sieving out a sea of all the crap that is not that important or not worth you worrying about.
Thank you so much for sharing that part of yourself with us. I'm sure there are so many people out there that will be impacted by what you've just said. I know I was. I was like, “How am I going to keep doing this podcast, I’m sitting here crying?” It's so beautiful. I'm wondering, did you ever watch that MIAA documentary?
Yes.
Your story is just a reminder that we have no idea what has gone on in people's lives when we see them. We see them on social media. We see them succeeding or whatever, and we can paint this idea and we just have no idea. My dad used to always be, “Always be kind. You have no idea what people are dealing with behind closed doors.” It's so true.
Absolutely. Be kind.
Thank you so much. You have been and continue to be a huge and important mentor for artists and creatives. I'm wondering, who helps you? You've managed to keep a business afloat for 15 years, which is massive. 66% of Australian businesses fail in the first three years. The fact that you've five times that and you're still going strong, how have you managed to do that? Have you had mantras or mentors? Do you have a book that blew it all out of the water for you? What's helped?
My parents are my biggest mentors. My mother's determination and resilience in raising three kids, and moving around from country to country was a huge inspiration to me. She kept telling me to study, work hard, go for my dreams, and be independent. That was my mantra. My father's incredible ability to adapt quickly in his business initiatives as we move from country to country, losing something, gaining another thing. His ultimate goal was to provide for his family's security. That was incredible, seeing him being so strong and resilient.
In my corporate side-hustle job in the early days, I worked with an incredibly fastidious stickler of a boss. She was so particular and structured, at the time, I found her so difficult to work with, but everything I have learned and implemented today in my business I learned from her. I've got to mention her name. Anne Elliot, who I worked with at Heinz Financial Services. Amazing woman.
Yes, books are great, but I don't think books can provide you with much, Fiona. You can read all the books in the world, self-help books or business books, but world experiences are everything. Traveling is such a huge thing. You learn resilience just from jumping on a plane and going to a country that speaks a different language. You got to watch yourself and work your way around the country. Get into trouble and get out of trouble. Life experiences are huge.
In high school, my art teacher was a huge inspiration to me. He is no longer here, but he was such a force to be reckoned with. We’d just come to Australia from living in the United States. Everything was so different here. We had to shift culturally. I felt completely out of sorts in the school that I was in, but I found refuge in the art classes. Sometimes, he would even give up his lunch breaks just to hang out with me in the art studio and talk about Dolly. They were the best sessions and he supported me through those tough times when we first came to Australia. He is a huge mentor.
Of course, you and I spoke about this before. I do a lot of meditation and yoga. Self-care for business owners is a huge thing that we take for granted. In the early days, I'd never take holidays. I was working seven days a week. I never take a break. Especially after COVID, these days, it's so important, to be the best business person, the best mentor, the best creative, the best business that you can be, you really need to be refreshed. At least one day in a fortnight, I'll drive away a couple of hours out of Melbourne, go on a big hike, and just clear my mind. Get physically exhausted, get grounded with all the beautiful things in nature, and then I come back and I feel fresh and ready to face the week.
So many amazing things in there. I'm often looking at your beautiful photos on Facebook or other social platforms and going, “Oh, my goodness.” I've even messaged you before like, “Are we at the same place,” because your rock pools looked very similar to the rock pools that I was so wonderfully allowed to be near at that time after all the lockdowns? I love that you mentioned the boss that you worked with, but also your parents. What's your mom's name?
Yeah, good on you, mom. Rosemary.
What a beautiful name, and your dad and everyone. Even when you mentioned your high school teacher. I was talking to somebody who wants to actually leave their career and go back into teaching. I was saying, “Teachers, we underestimate them,” and we did. The whole way through COVID, people have greater respect for what every teacher does.
In my life, I had a great teacher, David McLean. He was my year eleven English teacher, and he was the first person who said, “You're a really good writer,” outside of my family. He then asked me to read out my stories to the whole year level. He gave me so much confidence that has carried me through my whole life. I may not be the best writer out there, but I have confidence that, “Yeah, I can write.” That very much comes from him telling me that. It's important, and thank you for sharing all of that. Likewise, I'm wondering, do you have any tools that you could not run your business without given you're doing all sorts of things?
I'm a bit of a tech Luddite, Fiona. The tech stuff is super scary for me, but the one thing I can say, for my type of business, having clear and tight artist contracts is so vital because artists are easygoing and carefree. This type of communication is the only tool that will be able to herd these cats because they’re like cats. I love cats. I adopted your cat.
Yeah. She became a completely different cat with you like, “What is what has happened?”
She is the gallon cat. She was Off the Kerb’s cat.
I know. It was so bizarre.
It was such an amazing time. Artists are like cats and having an airtight contract is just the best thing to work with them with. I've got colleagues who run other galleries and they complain about all the artists getting late with things or forgetting deadlines. I don't have this issue. I rarely have this issue, and it's because I've made sure that these contracts were rigid and airtight. Over time, I tweak these contracts. Every now and again, I'll get a little bit of a challenge, and so I tweak the contract. I don't want anything to slip through the cracks. I learned this from that corporate job. It was such a good building block for me.
Another amazing tool to have in any business is clean office management to keep everything on top of things because especially in Off the Kerb’s environment, our exhibitions turnover every two weeks. There are four gallery spaces, four solo shows turned over every two weeks. If I ran a loose system, everything would just fall apart if I didn't have a tight structure.
Another thing that I found about COVID, I was pretty old-fashioned before COVID. I felt that people needed to get out of their homes and come walk into the gallery on a Sunday afternoon and look at art. I never developed anything online, then COVID helped me work out an online platform for Off the Kerb. I'm not talking about the website, but any catalog and communicating to a buyer base that's not just in Australia, but overseas as well.
Since COVID, our international sales have increased significantly. That's because of the catalog, something as simple as that. I was also really lucky during the second lockdown, I managed to get a City of Yarra grant and a creative grant. Those grants went towards creating virtual walkthroughs through the gallery.
I don't want to say that should be the way of the future, because I'm still a very old-fashioned person. People should get out of their homes and start to connect again, but it's a good tool to have if you've got people who can't come to Australia or who have mobility issues. If you're lucky, because things like that are quite expensive numbers, those virtual tours, if you're able to put aside a little bit of money to create a virtual tour around a gallery, would be an amazing thing to reach a wide audience.
Amazing, and also the contracts. So often, people don't have contracts in place. We have a contract, we use a tool called HelloSign for people to sign our contracts that are legally binding. Even we, sometimes we will be like, “They haven't signed it, that's fine,” or we will just not send it to certain people. Our process has gotten a bit slack lately but it's so important. Even though people might be like, “Contracts aren't worth the paper they're written on,” they are.
If nothing else, it's a set of guidelines like you said, and it's just as important for the artist as it is for you for them to know, where are my restrictions, and this has to be done. Especially if they're emerging and newer to this, it's going to teach them this has to happen or I don't get paid or it's not going to get my work out there.
It’s important that you mentioned that because I'm sure there are plenty of people that are reading, going, “That's it, I'm going to get my contracts sorted. I'm going to do it.” Thank you so much. I'm wondering, I know you've been in business for a long time, and you've probably got a long list, but what are you most proud of from your journey in business so far?
I don't have a long list. It's simple. I'm proud that I survived the GFC when I started the gallery in 2007. The global financial crisis was in 2008, 2009.
2009, we moved to London right in the middle of it.
To open up the gallery in a global financial crisis is hard, and a global pandemic. I do feel proud we've survived the GFC, that wall collapse, and now, this COVID-19. I'm proud of it, and I'm as excited about this journey as I was years ago. I can't begin to describe it. I don't know why, I'm like a kid in a candy store. Every exhibition that we launch, I feel like it's the first one. People look at me saying, “I'm too tired of it.” I'm not. I'm grateful because Melbourne's art community is so prolific and hungry. There's a lot of gratitude there. They're so inspiring, and I just bounce off them. Did I answer your question?
Yes, beautifully. What a wonderful place to be in that you're still as excited as you were when you began. Whenever I coach somebody, they have to answer a questionnaire and one of the questions there is, how do you feel about your business? There's, compared to when you were first beginning it, how do you feel? There's less excited, more excited, and about the same.
I would say it's unusual to get more excited, quite often people are feeling less excited or about the same. Maybe something's happened that they're excited about like a new category that they're launching, but a lot of the time people are tired. I'm sure you have bouts of being tired but it's amazing that you do feel that energy and enthusiasm for what you do still. It comes through in the way that you present in the business as well. Congratulations.
Thank you. I'm like one of those freaky answers I'm actually more excited these days.
Yeah, it's good. It's such a great place to be. What's next for you or Off the Kerb? What's happening? What do you want people to know? How can we connect with you?
I don't know if you've noticed over the last months that we've been heavily supporting charitable events. In May 2022, we ran a large-scale exhibition donating the full proceeds to Ukraine Crisis Appeal. We managed to raise a significant amount of money for that, which was amazing. That's given me this new excitement and new energy. In June 2022, I got to support another charity, which is close to my heart. I'm vegan and the charity is called Farm Transparency Dominion Movement. It was wonderful to get to sponsor an amazing event, and they raised enough money to continue their work.
Coming in September 2022, we're going to be holding another large-scale group show and this one's going to raise funds for Sri Lanka. Sri Lanka is in complete economic ruin. Unfortunately, the Western world has completely turned a blind eye to Sri Lanka, which is absolutely disgraceful. For Australia to not support this country, so many Sri Lankan refugees and asylum seekers have rehomed here and contributed to the economic and cultural development of Australia.
It's such a shame that Australia can’t bail them out of their economic ruin. Where governments and politicians turn their back on those who need support, it's time that individuals and businesses step up to the plate. I feel like this is my calling this year and I'm going to keep doing it as much as I can. In September, we're going to be running this fundraiser, an amazing big exhibition with 50 artists.
We're raising money for a lovely little grassroots organization called Palmera. They gather food and provisions to all the poor people in Sri Lanka who are affected the most. I feel privileged that I'm in a position to help. Often people think that they can't give much, but it's economies of scale. If a lot of people give a little, that adds up to a lot. We need to change the way we're thinking and help where we can.
Another thing I want to do, because I see a huge gap is the professional development of a creative community. I don't think universities are preparing creatives with anything business related or professional-related. I want to gap fill this one as well. You might have noticed on my website, I run a few professional practice classes and mentorships, but I haven't been giving them enough attention. I think that's what I'm going to be doing in the next upcoming year in 2023.
You have a lot going on, so many things that are just amazing that you're doing for others as well. I agree, it's so important that people get business information. I work with people all the time that are like, “This was never mentioned at art school,” “This was never mentioned in my interior design course,” or whatever it is, we sort of spit people out expecting them to just figure it out. That's why people take out huge loans and don't understand how the money's coming in. So many other things that are going on.
It's amazing that you give and give. I hope that you rest and rest as well. It sounds like you do with your every second week going away. It's been such a pleasure to chat with you and learn from you. Every time I've connected with you in the past, it has been lovely and grounding and always a calming experience. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing.
Thanks so much, Fiona. Thank you for having me.
Okay, bye.
Bye.
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What a wonderful woman. I love every time I talk or connect with Shini, there's this essence of realness, groundedness, genuineness, and all the nesses. I appreciate her coming on and sharing. She has so much knowledge in this industry. Her business has been going on for fifteen years. I know that she was very humble, but it has been such a jumping-off point for so many artists and so many artists to get an opportunity for them to get their work seen worldwide. Thank you so much again, Shini for coming onto the podcast.
If you want to connect with Shini, you can do that over at their website, OffTheKerb.com.au. You'll find a whole bunch of information there like how to submit your work, what exhibitions and launches are coming up, anything that she's talking about with all the charity work will come up, and learning and mentoring. Check that out. Of course, if you're around Collingwood, you can go into 66B Johnston St, Collingwood, and find Shini and the team and say hello.
I would love to know what you took away from that. As always, I'm going to point out two things that I took from my conversation with Shini, but I'd love to know what you took. If you want to share that you can email us at Hello@MyDailyBusinessCoach.com or you can send us a DM, @MyDailyBusinessCoach. What stood out for me was the idea of resilience.
Resilience is definitely a word that comes up a lot. My son, who's nine, they're doing a lot of work on resilience at school. It's something that we don't give enough gratitude too. I loved the interplay between resilience and challenge and gratitude that Shini talked about. Yes, it is really hard when you are going through a situation.
Of course, I'm speaking from immense privilege, I have never gone through war. I have not been a refugee or any of the stuff that she talked about, but all of us have challenges in varying degrees in our lives. Nobody gets through life without challenges and heartbreak and things that go wrong. It's about looking at those and seeing what are the lessons being presented. Maybe it was years ago, and you can look back now.
I have a beautiful mentor and coach I work with, Winitha Bonney. She often says, “Speak from your scars, not from your wounds.” Sometimes we do have to go through something and we have to let it heal and have those scars to be able to then reflect on it and see the lessons and see things that have helped us, even if it was so hard.
I loved in that same vein that Shini was talking about, this manager that she had that, at the time, was hard to work with, but led her to be able to figure out so many things in her business because she had had that person. I do think it's something my husband and I often talk about, why do these people show up in our lives? Why has this situation come back again, good and bad? We both have strong spiritual beliefs. We believe the universe is showing us things and teaching us things. Even now, with my back. I'm aware that this is a challenge, but what can I learn from this? There are so many lessons coming up.
I love, love that Shini spoke about the fact that she's gone through the global financial crisis, all of the heartbreaking challenges that would have come up from having to flee Sri Lanka and find refuge in all sorts of different places. That spoke to me. It's something that anyone in business or anyone even thinking of starting a business, it's good to reflect on where were you three years ago and what did you want?
Sometimes we think, “The person I was three years ago, would be dying to have the opportunities that I have now.” We're not necessarily grateful for those. We can take things in our stride and get a bit complacent. I loved that she talked about resilience, and it is such an important thing. I also loved her beautiful hope for Australia that we can get through this and we can find and strengthen our own resilience in what is happening.
The other thing that I loved that she spoke about when I asked how can people get in touch with you if they want to have an exhibition was, yes, you can go on the website, you can fill in the submission, but also when she said, “Come in and meet me.” We don't do that enough. In lots of places, we've been in lockdown, and we haven't been able to physically go and meet people. There may be other reasons.
For me, right now, I can't drive so. I can't go out and meet people. However, in normal circumstances, we can make that effort to go and meet people. If you have a product and you have it stocked in various stockers, make a date, maybe it's once every six months, but that you travel around and go and see your stockers and meet those people that are selling your product for you and helping you run your business.
Likewise, if you are in a service-based business, maybe like me, you do a lot of your work online, and you're not meeting people. I have a workshop coming up with a beautiful woman, we’re both saying, “It's so weird that we haven't met,” because we've been working together for a while. We both met each other through Instagram as well. It's that time when you think, “I get to meet you,” and all of the energy and all the things that you just can't have online that you can have in person. I love that idea, a reminder that if you can and you can, go out and meet people.
Go and meet people. Go and be human with other humans. I love that. There are so many other amazing things that came out of my conversation with Shini. If you'd like to connect with Shini, you can go to OffTheKerb.com.au. You can also find Shini on Instagram and check out everything that is happening at Off the Kerb Gallery, and the Instagram is @OffTheKerb.
If you found this useful, I would love it so much if you could share it with a friend. If you could leave us a review, you can do that on Apple and Spotify, as well as other places. If you have the time, it would be so nice to have a written review. I read every single one of them. They just make me so excited. They make all of this work feel like it's doing something and having the impact that I hope it does. Thank you so much for listening and I'll see you next time. Bye.
