Episode 238: Being intentional and focusing your energy on your work and products to get better results with Dr. Rebecca Ray
Everything is going to be enjoyable and drama doesn't have to come. In today's episode, Fiona talks to Dr. Rebecca Ray, a pilot turned clinical psychologist, author, speaker, and student of life. They talk about setting boundaries, Dr. Rebecca's journey, and so much more. Tune in!
Topics discussed in this episode:
Introduction
How Dr. Rebecca Ray started her business
Books written by Dr. Rebecca Ray
On her journey with Pan Macmillan
Do it without the drama
Setting boundaries
Intentional Business
What was Little Becc like?
How you can start again
How to get in touch with Dr. Rebecca Ray
Conclusion
Get in touch with My Daily Business Coach
Resources and Recommendations mentioned in this episode:
@MyDailyBusinessCoach - Instagram
Rebecca Ray - Amazon
@DrRebeccaRay - Instagram
I've worked out for myself that the more intentional I got with my energy in my own business, the better my results were. Rather than trying to please everyone, if I focus on the people that fit my work and if I focus on the products that I want to deliver because they feel aligned with me right now, then I get much better results.
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Welcome to episode 238 of The My Daily Business Coach podcast. If you are new around here, we have three types of podcast episodes. We have longer coaching episodes with me and they come out every alternate Thursday. On a Thursday, we have a small business interview like this episode. On Tuesday, every single week, we have a quick tip episode and that's a ten-minute episode to give you a tip, tool, or tactic that you can implement immediately in your business.
This episode is an interview with a small business owner and this is a good one. No matter where you are, maybe you've got a retail business and you are heading into the full-on period of the year, perhaps you are in a completely different industry and it's your quiet time, or maybe you've had a hectic year and you're looking forward to closing the chapter on it. Maybe it's been the opposite. Maybe you have had the most incredible year that you've ever lived and you want to dive more into those feelings. Our guest is going to help you no matter where you are in your business and your life right now. It's been my absolute pleasure to bring her on.
Before we get stuck into that, there are two things I want to mention. We have had quite a few DMs from people over on Instagram, which is @MyDailyBusinessCoach, about The Marketing For Your Small Business Course and Coaching Program. That is kicking off on the 20th of September 2022. That is a nine-week program. You can work through The Marketing For Your Small Business course anytime. That's available all the time, 24/7, over at MarketingForYourSmallBusiness.com. Twice a year, we do offer this course and coaching program so you get to work through the course alongside me doing live coaching with you and the other people that have joined up.
At the end of that nine weeks, if you so wish, you can present your marketing plan and your strategy to me and the rest of the group for feedback. You work through the course and you come out of the course with what you had hoped when you bought it, which is a full marketing plan that's strategic and aligned with your values and beliefs. If you're interested in that, get on it because it starts quickly. It starts on the 20th of September 2022. If you want to get more information, it’s MarketingForYourSmallBusiness.com.
The other thing is I want to acknowledge the traditional owners and custodians of the beautiful lands on which I live and record this podcast and that is the Wurrung and Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation. I pay my respects to their elders, past, present, and emerging, and acknowledge that sovereignty has never been ceded. I also pay my respects to any other indigenous people who might be joining us from all around the world, welcome. Welcome to everyone else as well. Let's get into this episode.
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It is my absolute pleasure to be joined on the podcast by Dr. Rebecca Ray. Rebecca and I met because we were both taking part in a mastermind that was based in the US and we're the only two Australians. There was a Brit who was lovely but she was living in Australia. She was stuck in Australia at the time because of all the lockdowns. We were the only Australians doing it.
I remember when we got the list of who else was in the mastermind. I was looking at everyone and looking where they were from. I saw Australia and I was like, “What? There’s another Australian?” We are a large country but it can feel like a small town because everyone knows everyone. We have a small population given how big we are.
I saw her name and I instantly went around doing a bit of a stalk. I have to say, I was pretty intimidated. I was like, “Look at this person. She's brought out all these books. She's got this huge audience.” All the things that you tell yourself. I didn't get to meet her because we were put into two separate groups for most of it. However, we caught up over Instagram and we said, “Let's do a Zoom call.”
From that point on, as soon as we did that Zoom call, everything fell away. It was like, “This is a genuine, lovely, intelligent, curious, and wonderfully minded person. I'd love to have them in my life.” She felt the same, luckily. We have conversed ever since about business, life, kids, and all sorts of things. I had to have her on the podcast. Dr. Rebecca Ray also has her own podcast as well. I wanted to have her on because, as you can probably guess from the title, Doctor, she is a learned woman but she is also a clinical psychologist.
Dr. Rebecca Ray had worked as a clinical psychologist for some time. Like many of us, she experienced burnout, which led to, “How do I do things differently? How can I take all of the different parts of me, plus all the different parts of my career, my study, and my experience, and package it up into something that is going to work for her, her wife, Nyssa, her beautiful son, and also for her audience?” What are they going to get from working with her?
Dr. Rebecca has created multiple books, which are an affordable, accessible entry point into her thoughts and minds, experience, and education. She also has group programs including a mastermind called Intentional Business where she works with people on understanding who they are, understanding their mindset, and understanding all the parts of the business but also all the parts of themselves. Being a clinical psychologist, she has a huge understanding of what goes on inside of all of our heads when we stress out when it comes to business or likewise when we're excited, elated, and celebrating all the good things in business as well.
Rebecca has put out her fifth book, which is called Small Habits For A Big Life. It's taking you through change and taking small steps toward where you want to be and where you want to end up. Another one of her books, which came out during the pandemic, is one that I now have in the Business Book Club. I invited Rebecca as the author to come and chat with people in the business coaching that I do. It’s called Setting Boundaries. I have done an entire episode about this book.
All of these beautiful books and all of Rebecca's work are about taking people on a journey to themselves. I know that sounds maybe a bit out there but everything she's doing is packaging up all her experience, all her knowledge, and all her education both academic but also life education, and creating a pathway for people to get back to who they are and uncover who they are. Maybe they are trying to change things in themselves or maybe they are trying to dive into why they're good at something or, on the flip side, why they keep coming up against the same issue over and over, whether it's in business or in life.
I had to have Rebecca on the podcast. In this episode, we talk about how did she go from being a clinical psychologist, which she still is, to creating her own business and what was that like? She also talks about the failures that she has gone through and how she has grown from there. We talk about what advice she has for people at the moment who might be feeling a bit stuck.
A lot of people are dealing with these burnout feelings at the moment. I was listening to a podcast on the rates of depression and anxiety and how they are through the roof and how it's increased. I can't remember the exact figures that they were talking about but it has gotten worse than it was in the middle of lockdowns.
It is a perfect time to have Dr. Rebecca Ray on the podcast. She has her own podcast called Hello Rebecca Ray. She has a wealth of books and a wealth of resources including her business coaching and mastermind and you can find that at RebeccaRay.com.au. Enough for me. I'm going to get on to our chat. This is my chat with the wonderful Dr. Rebecca Ray.
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Hello, Dr. Rebecca Ray. How are you?
Hi, Fiona. It’s nice to talk to you again.
I love these. I was looking forward to this.
Me too, but only because I want access to your brain permanently. I wish I had a pocket-size version of you on my desk at all times.
Likewise. We're going to get into all your goodness in this episode. I would love to have you in my pocket going, “It's all good. Believe in yourself. Say no more,” all the things. Like Little Becc with all her catch cries.
That does sound like me, I would say those things.
Where are you meeting us from and how's life looking for you at the moment?
I'm in the hinterland of the Sunshine Coast in Queensland. I feel the need to clarify that because I know many Victorians have moved up this way.
You've stolen our whole state.
The Sunshine Coast is the fastest growing city in Australia since the mass exodus of southern states. We’re up in the hills on purpose. I'm not a city person. I'm very much a wide-open-spaces person. I live in a little town outside Sunshine Coast, the cities area. We are so small that we don't even have a traffic light and that's how I like it.
You don't want to stop for anyone.
Also, I like it that quiet. In terms of how life is, I've not been well. I've caught one of these colds going around in winter. It's not COVID according to my tests but it's felt bad enough that I've been bedridden for a few days, which is unusual for me. I'm coming to you on the back of a period of enforced rest. I'm proud to say that I have listened to my body. There have been times when I've gone to bed in the middle of the day. Go, me.
Probably somebody is going to be reading this and thinking, “I've got permission. I'm going to do that. If Becc Ray has done it, I'm going to do it. I'm going to stop.”
Becc Ray has done it multiple times over. I'm coming to you from a weekend where I slept 3.5 hours on Saturday afternoon and 2.5 hours on Sunday afternoon. Please, go do it. Honestly, there's no point in pushing through. I had a conversation with my wife, Nyssa, about this. She said to me, “Do you think you're sick because your body is screaming that you should take a break?”
My answer was, quite possibly, my body is saying, “If you don't stop, I will force you to.” I have deeply listened. The work that I'm doing is work that I don't have to think about too much for. I'm not doing any deep work at the moment. I'm simply allowing myself to rest as much as it frustrates the impatient part of me.
I read a quote on Instagram at some point and it said something like, “If you don't stop to look after your wellness, your illness will force you to stop.” I was thinking, “That is so true.” You and I met as part of a business mastermind on the other side of the globe. We’re both in Australia. I remember feeling quite intimidated when I saw your name come up. I did some stalking and I was like, “The only other Australian, look at her. She's got this huge business and everything else.” I've mentioned a bit about your business and your career but can you give us the backstory? What led you to do what you're doing now?
Also, you now know that there are zero reasons to be intimidated because I don't know what I'm doing. We're both clear by now that I have no idea what I'm doing on a daily basis and I make it up as I go along. Most people do. The backstory is that I trained as a psychologist straight out of school. In that same year, I started learning to fly as an anxious teenager.
I thought that maybe I should do something big with my life to perhaps prove myself. I did a whole lot of flying training and then had to admit to myself that flying violated my non-negotiables in life, which is someone who likes to work with words and not maths and visual-spatial skills, and someone who likes routine.
I'm a super boring Nana. I like to go to the same desk and do the same type of daily routine and flying changes every single day. I had to walk away from flying feeling like a huge failure despite the fact that I had never failed a flight test. I couldn't see myself using it as a career despite the fact that was what I had trained to do at that time. There was lots of money that had been invested in my flying training so I felt quite not good enough.
I went back to psychology and trained as a clinical psychologist. I went and got my professional doctorate in clinical psychology. I worked for the government for a while working with veterans and serving Defense Force personnel. I then went into private practice and did a whole stack of private practice where I mainly worked with police and other emergency services personnel, veterans, and serving Defense Force personnel who had PTSD. I deeply loved that work and loved the men and women that were serving or had served. I managed to do so much of it that I burnt myself out about 35 years prior to when I thought I would finish clinical practice.
I smashed up against another failure, big time. I felt deep grief for having to walk away from that part of my career. I very much walked away having no idea what I was going to do with the rest of my life. I was in a position where I had to find a way to make an income and I didn't know how to do that using psychology. I didn't know anyone else that was a psychologist that didn't do the clinical practice. I knew lecturers and academics and things like that but I didn't want to do that. I didn't know anyone that does what I do now.
Because burnout made the decision for me, I spent some time recovering, and then I was like, “How does one make money?” I started thinking, “Maybe I can put my work out online and see if there's an audience for the wisdom and experience I've gained as a psychologist and as a human being.” That's how I ended up with an online profile. Now, I write books and try to package my wisdom as part of online education for people that can access it and be able to make transformations that they're looking to make on a daily basis. I mentor other entrepreneurs to help them to be as aligned as possible in business. I do some media work and lots of random things like podcasts like this.
You're being so humble. You're completely transforming lives. I know, firsthand, because I've had you as a guest in my group coaching program talking about resilience, mindset, and all the different parts of being a business owner and it's been so helpful. I've done lots of research and everything else into this but you're fantastic at what you do, which is also why I've asked you to come on to the podcast.
You mentioned your books. You have so many books. I have only written one book. I don't know how you’re constantly writing these books as well as being a mom and a partner and everything else. I wonder, how have all these books come about? You shifted from working in private practice and working as a psychologist to going out into more of an online space. Lots of people do that, not necessarily maybe from psychology but lots of people go into the online space but they don't all become published authors multiple times.
How did that come about? Also, how do you write so many books? Also, what's your latest book about? I’ve still not read it because you lovingly sent a copy but my mother-in-law was over at my house and started reading it and was like, “This is good. Can I take it home?” I was like, “Yes, you can.” I need to get it back from her. I'd love to hear a bit more about your book Life.
I'll send you another copy.
No. I buy a copy, that's what I will do.
Book Life is an interesting life. It's interesting to have the question, how did you get published? I wish I knew the answer to this question. I know the answer for me. Before I was published, I honestly was in a place where I was like, “How do people get published?” I had a dream of writing ever since I was a little girl but I didn't pursue it because it's not a real job. Not many people get published and you can't be an author because it's not a real job. I went and got a real job and I became a psychologist. I always thought that only people other than me get published.
This weird thing happened. I started a page called Happy Habits, which was based on the title of my first online program. That was my first attempt at putting my work out online. I want to be honest because it's important that we be transparent about these things. I was hiding getting behind that brand. I didn't want to put my name out there. I was scared that I would be judged or that people would see my work and go, “That's crap.”
I did good at developing a page of quotes from other people's work. As a result of that page being quite big, I built it to about 200,000 followers in about a year. This was back when growth hacking techniques worked on Instagram. I didn't buy followers but I posted a lot, five times a day. I spent a lot of time on Instagram, which grew the profile. I received a DM on that page from a publisher that said, “Rebecca, we love your work and we love your profile. Would you like to write a book?”
This publisher had an unusual name to the point where I said to Nyssa, “This is spam. Check this out. Someone is spamming me.” Who receives a message on Instagram that says, “Do you want to write a book?” I googled her and she had a legitimate LinkedIn profile I wrote back to her and said, “I'd love to chat. Can you call me because I wanted to make sure that this was legit?” She rang me from New York and I got a book contract.
As you do.
It seems ridiculous to have this as-you-do experience. What I did then was I took the contract and I got myself an agent in Australia. I gave that agent free money. I found her online. We had a phone call. She's still my agent today. I gave her 20% of that contract because she said, “Yes, I will take you on and broker this contract for you.” She pitched me to 11 or 12 publishers in Australia. No one wanted me except for c. I love them. Pan Macmillan remains my publisher today.
Pan Macmillan took me on as an author that they wanted to test to market. Be Happy was my first book published in the US. The Universe Listens to Brave and The Art of Self-Kindness were published six months apart in 2019. That was my publisher, Pan Macmillan, testing me out in the market with small investments on their behalf.
My publisher there always had an idea that she wanted a long-term relationship with me so that our relationship would be a multi-book relationship and that's what it's turned into. After The Art of Self-Kindness, I published Setting Boundaries, which came in 2021. That's now a best seller in the self-help space in Australia. This 2022, we've published Small Habits For A Big Life. I'm writing my sixth book, which will be out in the middle of 2023.
In terms of my journey with Pan Macmillan, it was always going to be more than one book even though we only signed one contract at a time. We don't sign on for ten books. She always wanted to work with me long-term. It has been a relationship that has grown and one that makes me feel confident and supported. I‘m very much valued by Pan Macmillan which is wonderful.
Your third question as part of this book thing was, how do I write so many books? The answer is painful. It's also important to be honest about this. I don't like writing. I'm a professional author, this is my job, and I don't like the act of writing. What I do love is I love the outcomes. Therapy is a privilege. In Australia, you're lucky if you get ten sessions covered by Medicare a year. I love that I can create an avenue for people to go and access my work for $20 or $30 for the cost of a book. They can get my wisdom, my love, and my energy poured into that book where I can show them the solutions in an ordered way.
I find writing exhausting. It's laborious. I’m essentially lazy. My brain is super lazy, it wants to have naps all the time. For me to write a book hurts my brain but I do it because I like the outcome. How do I write so many? Signing a contract is motivating. I don't want to let my publisher down. I will say that I do it in a way that probably is dragging my feet most of the time.
I love your honesty. That was good, especially for anyone out there who wants to write a book. I interviewed my publisher, Hardie Grant Melbourne. That's coming out in a future episode. Many people don't understand what goes into a book and they don't understand all of the to and fro with contracts and how long books take.
They see people doing it and think, “I could do that and I'll become famous. I'll make heaps of money.” It's important that we're honest about it. You're saying that you don't love doing it. Are there tricks? How do you physically sit down and write the book? I'm guessing that there are lots of people reading and it may not be writing a book, it might be something else in their business that they don't want to do it. Like you, maybe they like the outcome.
There are tricks. I've gotten heaps better over time knowing my own creative process and being able to hack that creative process. One of my tricks is I only write in the morning. I have a morning brain, that's when I'm most on so to speak. Unless I'm pushing up against a deadline and perhaps the deadline is next week and I don't have a choice, all my writing is done before 12:00 PM. You won't see me start writing after 12:00 because my brain sucks after that, not for everything but for deep work like writing. I need my freshest brain.
The other thing that I do is map out the book first. For the readers that don't know, I write nonfiction. I've learned the art of being able to take a reader through the story arc of a nonfiction book. You might think, “What do you mean by a story arc?” If it's not fiction, then there's no arc but there is in nonfiction. You're taking someone through understanding what their problem is, what the transformation for that problem looks like, and then painting a picture of life after the problem is fixed at the end of the book.
For the book that I'm writing right now, I've probably spent about 60 hours on the map alone. That map is a Canva document. It's a series of pages of mind maps where I go through each chapter and what that chapter is going to look like. That forms the basis. When I sit down to write a Word document, blank page, I go to the map. I'm never working from a blank page. I transfer the data from that mind map over into a series of headings for that chapter and then I go and write to the headings.
When I'm writing, I'm only writing a paragraph at a time or a section at a time that belongs to a particular heading. What I've done is I've been able to chunk the larger effort down into smaller pieces so that it's not overwhelming. What I've also done, which is probably important for the readers to understand as well, is I've shifted very much from, “I can't write a book,” to, “I have quite a lot of evidence now that I can write a book.” In fact, not only can I write a book but I can write a best seller because I have.
When you start and you do something for the first time, of course, it's normal to have thoughts like, “I can't do this,” because your brain doesn't have evidence that you can. For any readers like me, my brain never has faith in me from the outset, ever. I have a critical mind. My mind will always go towards, “You can't do this. You're not good enough.” Rather than, “Back myself.” I don't have an internal voice that encourages me at the outset.
What I have done is I consciously sit down now to write from a place of calm because I know that it gets done. I can either make a drama out of it and it will still get done but with drama that I brought to the process or I can trust that every other time I've done it and I've met the deadline and I do it without the drama now.
I love that, do it without the drama. I'm going to make that into a quote card for you, “Do it without the drama.” Similarly, the same with, once you start doing something over and over, you can do it. I could write an article quickly because I've written articles for over 22 years. Whereas, at the start, it was a struggle. every line, you’d rethink over and over.
I don't write that many articles now but if I was to, I would be like, “Get it done, Killackey.” I used to always say that out loud, “Get it done because you will get it done. It will get done. It always gets done. You don't need the drama. Drama is not coming along with us today.” Given that we are in the life with COVID times, I am also wondering. Based on what you've described in your business, what I know, and what you do, how have the last few years impacted your life and your business?
Did you find that more people were coming to you because they wanted to work out their business issues and get more aligned and work on mindset and everything else? Do you feel like more people were coming because they needed to think about their mental well-being? Did you feel like your business didn't work as well as you'd hoped during that time? How were you impacted? You're in business and you're also in psychology, two paths that are impacted and still are from the pandemic.
It's important to note that I'm not in clinical practice anymore and I haven't been during the COVID period. In some ways, I found the slowdown of life therapeutic. The lockdown, for the short period that we had here in Queensland, was a gift in many ways. Also, personally, our lives were turned upside down overnight. At the time, my wife was a full-time gigging musician and she lost her entire calendar of work overnight in March 2020.
We were forced to scramble and ended up living off my income for quite a long time as she transformed her business successfully. She's absolutely booked out as a music producer. She has a music studio in the backyard and she now produces, composers, and helps other singer-songwriters put their own work out into the world, their own music. It's amazing. She doesn't have time to gig anymore. She's gotten herself so busy.
What happened for me was that COVID made me incredibly grateful for having found a way to work and offer my gifts to the world and make a difference in other people's lives on my own terms from my own home. I felt deeply grateful that I had developed a business that was outside what I was previously doing. The only people I work with directly these days are the people in my mastermind, my signature program, Intentional Business.
What I wanted to mention about those people is that I felt like what COVID brought to the table was a real question in people's heads about whether or not they were living in alignment with who they wanted to be and whether or not they were doing work that was fulfilling. What it also brought was this sense of uncertainty around, “Is the world ever going to be okay again? Can I ask for money? Can I sell services to my audience when I feel guilty around people losing their jobs and people not having the same amount of income as they normally would?”
What I found in my programs was that I was spending a lot of time helping people with their mindset about when there are changes on a global level like this, that doesn't mean that the value is gone from what it is that you have to offer your people. We spend and continue to spend time focusing on, are you aligned in how your energy is distributed in business? Are you doing the work that you want to be doing serving the people that you want to serve?
That’s important. That's why we get on so well because I am all about alignment. It doesn't matter if you're making all the money in the world if you resent it or you don't feel fulfilled internally. It's not that enjoyable. One of the books that you mentioned before that’s a best seller and that you have written is Setting Boundaries. We use it in the Business Book Club. I'm always recommending it to somebody. I recommended it to somebody who sent me a DM. It's because many people struggle with setting boundaries.
I'd love to know your advice for anyone reading who struggles with saying no or people pleasing. I was talking to a client last and we were going through quite a big issue in her business. I was saying, “You don't have to be everyone's friend. This is a business. There is a transaction involved.” Particularly with creative business owners, we have this tendency to want people to like us and to see our identity so caught up with our business, particularly if you're making products because it's handmade and it's your stuff. I'd love to get your advice on that. The second to this is, why do you think it's such a huge problem setting boundaries for small business owners in particular?
The first thing I want to say about boundaries is that boundaries are the biggest gift that we can give another human being in an interaction with us. That's usually not what people expect me to say because boundaries get a bad rap. Many people approach boundaries from a state of anxiety because they're fearful of the reactions that they might get or how they might be judged if they tried to set boundaries. They've tried to set boundaries in the past and they've ended up in conflict as a result and it's not gone well.
The thing is that when boundaries are your foundation for interacting with another human being, they act as the most beautiful gift because you're essentially giving someone else your user manual and you're saying, “This is how to love and respect me.” There's no guesswork involved. Many times in relationships, we do expect other people to guess or to know what our needs are. If you communicate your boundaries, you're taking away that guesswork and taking away the pressure for how someone else might have to figure out for themselves how to interact with you. That's the first thing, boundaries are a gift.
Secondly, the reason boundaries are difficult for small business owners, especially this is the case for women business owners, oftentimes, women struggle culturally with the identities that have been attached to the women that have come before us that have set boundaries and are being judged for it. there is a whole language around women who have stood up for themselves that is not positive.
That language sounds like, “She's high maintenance. She's difficult to deal with. She's a diva. She's a ballbuster,” all these negative terms. If a man had set the same boundaries, he gets called ambitious, confident, reliable, and gets called a leader. Those things are concerning when you look at how the different genders have been judged for simply putting a boundary in place.
Many women assume that, in small businesses, if they set boundaries, they'll lose the client or the interaction won't go all that well or they'll be seen as difficult to deal with so they might lose the gig and not be given another opportunity. There's the guilt that comes with this. One of the most difficult things I see with my mentees in Intentional Business is charging for their work and having a whole stack of guilt associated with the price.
That guilt comes from, “Am I good enough? Is my work good enough? If I charge too much, what happens if no one buys? I'll have to discount. I want the person to see how good the work is.” There's all this nuance about this tangle of complexity emotionally around pricing. This is where boundaries come in for small business owners, particularly female small business owners.
We're also talking about not just boundaries between you and your client or your audience but we're talking about boundaries between you and yourself and what I refer to as internal boundaries. I see many women who go and start businesses and they end up in a place that I refer to as Resentmentville because they don't charge enough for their work and then they end up in a state of resentment because they feel burnt out because they're over-delivering.
At the end of the day, they can't even pay themselves because the business is not running at a level that's profitable enough to reward them for all the effort that they're putting out. We're not just talking about external boundaries between you and the people that are buying from you but we're also talking about the boundaries that you have within yourself to say, “My work is worth charging for. I deserve to be paid for this.”
You make many points. I was writing down notes, especially around that boundaries are the biggest gift you can give people. When you were saying, “With relationships, we expect people to know,” I was giggling. That's something that people do all the time. My husband and I are coming up to fifteen years of marriage in 2023. We've been together the whole length of a teenager.
I still say stuff and he's like, “You haven't told me. Did you expect that I would magically know that?” When you say it, you're like, “Yes.” We don't always have these conversations. He and I get on well. I can have expectations in my mind that I don't tell anyone about and then I'll be like, “Somebody hasn't met my expectations.”
We can do this in business with our team as well. I'm not just talking about partner relationships. Although I do that all the time as well, I make assumptions about what Nyssa should know but I failed to tell her. These things are dynamic. It doesn't matter how long you've been with your partner. In fact, we're possibly at risk of making even more assumptions when we've been with our partners for a longer period of time. We can do this with our team. We can do this with our audience.
Sometimes I see people in my mastermind who will ask a question about why this customer is behaving in this entitled way. My question is always, “Did you tell them what to expect? Is there some terms and conditions? Is there a customer journey email that they've received about the steps that the process will take?” Otherwise, how do they know?
That's such an important thing. Years ago, I listened to a podcast and I remember the person saying, “How is this my fault?” I've worked with clients as well in my own business, even with people I've hired as well. I remember in 2021, I was sitting there and going, “Why am I getting annoyed?” I was like, “How is this my fault?” I haven't been really clear on things. That was fabulous what you were talking about.
It sounds like a generalization but I 1,000% see it happening more with female business owners than other business owners. We have this tendency to want to please everyone and to bend over backward and then get frustrated and resentful that we have. Thank you for going through those things because it's helpful for people. It's obvious, even from this chat, that one of the things that you are amazing at is drilling down on what's important in life and business. Even with your mastermind, Intentional Business, the words alone are like, “What are we trying to do here? Why are we doing it?”
What’s the purpose? What’s behind this? I do this in my own business. Everything comes from a place of intention. Otherwise, I don't have that much energy to go around, Fiona. Honestly, I'm old and I'm tired. Because I'm in the season of life where I have a small person as you do, sure, he’s becoming a little bit more independent. It's a period of intense need from us as moms. I don't have a stack of energy to go around.
The reason I created Intentional Business is that I've worked out for myself that the more intentional I got with my energy in my own business, the better my results were. Rather than trying to please everyone, if I focus on the people that fit my work and if I focus on the products that I want to deliver because they feel aligned with me right now, then I get much better results.
The more I try to force it or do it the way someone else has done it, usually the more chaotic my results are. That's what underpins everything that I do. When I mentor other people, I'm always coming from a place of, “Hold on a second. We need to work out what's right for you. Don't just do it the way I'm doing it because that might not be what's right for you.”
On that, have you always been like this? Your studies and being a doctor in psychology and all of that have helped. What was Little Becc like? Do you think that your upbringing has helped you get to this point now where you're so clear on all of these things?
My parents have good boundaries. They are clear on what they will and won't do on a daily basis. I appreciate that about them because I don't take it personally if someone says no to me. A common thing is many people will take it personally and see the emotion behind it rather than see it as someone's practical decision about where they want to distribute their resources personally.
Little Becc was preoccupied with approval that I'm exhausted thinking about her. I grew up wanting to be a good girl and wanting to do the right thing and attaching my definition of success to money and money only and not having a holistic view of what life could be. I'm incredibly different than what I was in my younger years and that's because I developed a deep respect for myself. Age has brought me an enduring sense of worthiness that I didn't have when I was younger.
I'm in a place, thanks to therapy, doing work on myself to be able to think about how I want to live my life. I haven't always been like this but I am consciously like this today because the only opinion that I'm interested in is the opinion of my 80-year-old self. That's how I live on a daily basis, “Am I doing what would make her happy?” If the answer is yes, great, we're on track. If the answer is no, great, we have something to adjust. Nobody else's opinion matters, not even the opinion of my wife or my child. Ultimately, neither of those two people, despite the fact that they're the most important humans in my life, can make the choices about how I live my life for me.
Yes, their opinions count but their opinions are like, “What should we do as a family? Are we living by the values that matter for us as a family?” In terms of my decisions about who I am, who I'm being, and how I'm living, the only person's opinion that now counts is my 80-year-old self. For young me, it was everyone else but me. It’s bloody exhausting.
That is powerful. I'm sitting here going, “That's huge.” It's going to hit many people in the same way that it hit me as you were saying that. I was like, “I'm about to start crying.” It made me think of my father who passed away. I was lucky enough to be at his side when he passed. He was in his early 80s. We had a priest that went to visit him before he passed away. The priest said to us and has said to multiple people since that he was at peace and was so calm. He was talking about his life.
I wasn't able to get there. None of our family was able to get there while he was still coherent and talking. He was talking to this priest and he was talking about his life and how great his life had been. You want that absolute peace at the end of your life to be like, “I lived the way that I wanted to live. I lived according to whatever principles and values that I have.” That is a huge thing. I need to have that on a post-it on my desk, like, “What would 80-year-old Fiona say?”
What if it's not 80-year-old Fiona? What if it's tomorrow's Fiona? What would she say? That pace needs to be happening on a daily basis in case we do die tomorrow. A way to make that a little less overwhelming is to think forward a few decades because it can give some perspective. Honestly, that's the only choice. The only choice is what is going to bring you peace at the moment.
I love that so much. It's important. Both of us are lucky to have supportive partners. My husband and I quite often sit in bed at the end of the night reading or talking and having a cup of tea. You can go to bed resting your head and feeling okay that you did your best that day.
You were who you wanted to be, even if you were not getting the results. As business owners and entrepreneurs, we can be incredibly caught up in, “What's the bottom line?” Ultimately, are you doing work that is fulfilling? Is the work that you're doing making a difference and making you feel like you're in the world contributing in some way? When your head hits the pillow that night, you can do what my Nana said a couple of months before she passed away and the day after my grandfather passed away.
We were sitting in the nursing home. She had side-by-side rooms with my Pop. My pop was not there when I arrived because he had passed away the night before. I went into her room. She was sitting by herself eating Vegemite toast looking out the window. I sat with her and she was crying. My Nana never cried. She was the most stoic woman you'd ever meet. She was crying and she was playing with my fingers.
She always said when I was little, “Darling, in the end, all that matters is who you love and how you love them.” I truly believe that applies to me in business as well. Not that I am in love with my clients but I want you to love your contribution. If you think about the work that you're doing in your business, how you're doing that work matters in the end.
That’s so true. We don't have you for so much longer but I wanted to ask you. You did mention at the start that you were studying psychology but you went and studied being a pilot and then realized it wasn't for you and you felt like you failed. If somebody's reading this and maybe they already own a business and they want to shift completely away from that or maybe they haven't started a business. We often hear from people who are like, “I've got a dream of starting a business. I'm listening to your podcast.” How can people start again? I’m in my 40s. A lot of people I know are scared to start at that stage.
I got published for the first time when I was 39. My business is only starting to come into its own and I'm 43. Let's be honest about timing here. You're not late. If you're looking at starting, the first thing that I will tell you is that you won't ever feel ready. Please stop waiting for the right time because there isn't one. Every day that you're operating from a place of misalignment is a day that you're allowing your soul to be fractured and perhaps even broken.
I would encourage you to take the fear with you, allow the fear to be a passenger but drive forward in the direction that you deeply want to go in. You don't need to know what it's going to look like, “I still don't know.” Fiona will tell you this, I have constant questions with her and her strategy brain to go, “What's next?” I honestly don't know what it's going to look like. I'm blazing this trail on a daily basis by myself.
Honestly, I do work now that doesn't feel like work because it's incredibly fulfilling. I will never regret getting burnt out. Perhaps I could have listened to myself a little earlier. Every moment that I thought was a deep and embarrassing failure in my life has been the most wonderful corner that has led me to where I am today. I don't regret any of it because I couldn't have gotten here any other way. My advice would be is to do it. Honestly, stop thinking about it. There's no more overthinking that's going to help you do it in a way that's easy or a way that gives you a guarantee. You have to start and you won't regret it.
I love that. You're a smart woman. I particularly love when you said that it's around the corner. Even in my question, when I said start again, it's not starting again. You're on the same path, you're just turning around a different corner instead of going straight ahead. I love that concept. You help a lot of people. You've helped me.
Many of my clients love Setting Boundaries. They're like, “this is the best book.” You've helped many people from your podcast, your Instagram, and all sorts of ways that people you'll never even meet. Have you had any mentors or coaches or maybe there's a mantra that you live by or maybe somebody else's books that have helped you build your business?
I've paid coaches money that I wish I paid you. Readers, Fiona didn't know that I was going to say this. It's not like we've pre-prep and planned this. You have helped me more than anyone else when it comes to strategy and when it comes to thinking about my business in a structured way. It's been invaluable. I also love the Money Mindset Stuff by Amanda Frances. She's in the US. She has a very woo-woo take on things but it works for me in terms of thinking about money as energy.
Finally, this might sound narcissistic, but the best guide that I have is my own intuition when it comes to my alignment. Honestly, the way that I get off track is by looking outward. I've done it for years. I tried it when I first started to run my business by a spreadsheet and do what everyone else does and it doesn't work for me. I have to operate in a way that is consistent with my energy and is aligned with how I want to work. The tighter I get that alignment, the better my results. Yes, there are some people that I go to for advice, you being one of them. Ultimately, at the end of the day, it's my own intuition and my own alignment that matters most.
I'm glad you said that. I don't think it's narcissistic. Even in my own business, there's a big change happening. It's not that big. It won't be big for other people. It's big for me. I've been ironing it for months. A friend of mine said, “Get so quiet and listen.” You hear that all the time. I do my meditation. I sat down and thought about how would I feel if either direction went. I felt so much better in one direction. I was like, “Let's go with that and know that it's the right thing regardless of what.”
The thing was, it's exactly what you said. I had mentioned it to an acquaintance what I was thinking and they made a negative comment about it. It made me rethink everything. I was like, “No. I'm going to go ahead with it. Not everyone's going to agree with it but I agree with it and that's all that matters.” It's important. what are you most proud of from your journey in business so far?
That I'm still here and that my business hasn't failed despite the fact that it's been on the edge of failing many times. I'm completely transparent. It took me a long time after leaving a comfortable six-figure private practice as a psychologist to create a business where I made an income that was survivable. I sat on the poverty line for many years before that happened. I'm thankful I didn't give up.
I'm most proud of when it got hardest. I was thinking, “I could probably go and get a job at Woolies and it would be so much easier and more guaranteed.” I'm not judging Woolies. I honestly was considering doing that. I am glad that something inside me said, “No. You need to be where you are doing the work that you're doing. Stay at the course.”
I'm glad that you did. I'm sure many people reading this, particularly if they haven't heard of you before, are glad as well because they're going to be able to get into all of your books. What's next for you? Where can people connect with you? If they're thinking, “She's amazing,” how do they get in touch with you?
You can find me online at RebeccaRay.com.au. My Intentional Business is open for October 2022 applications right now, my seven-month coaching program. I'm on the socials as @DrRebeccaRay. Mainly, I'm most active over on Instagram. You can listen to my podcast called Hello Rebecca Ray or grab my books, which are in lots of different places. Search for Rebecca Ray on Amazon and you'll see all of the books there, depending on where you are and where you're listening from.
That’s amazing, all of the books. Good luck with book number six. Thank you so much for taking the time, especially when you're unwell to come on and share all your wisdom. It's lovely chatting with you anytime.
Thanks for having me, Fiona. Always a pleasure.
Bye.
Bye.
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You feel like you can exhale when you're talking to Rebecca. You feel like you can let it all out. It's my pleasure to have her on the podcast. Many of you reading will have received the words or the message that you need from my chat with Rebecca. There are many resources that Dr. Rebecca Ray puts out and you can find a lot of them over at RebeccaRay.com.au. You can find out about her podcast. You can find out how to book her as a speaker. You can find out about her courses and mastermind and all sorts of other things. If you want to get there now, it's RebeccaRay.com.au.
I would love to know what did you take away from that? What are the things that stood out to you? What are you going to change maybe about your life or the way that you live or your mindset or maybe setting boundaries? Please don't be a stranger. You can send us an email, at Hello@MyDailyBusinessCoach.com. You can find us on Instagram, @MyDailyBusinessCoach. I'm sure Rebecca would love to hear from you as well. Her Instagram is @DrRebeccaRay.
Many things stood out to me from that chat. The first thing is realizing that drama doesn't have to come. I loved chatting about that. Drama doesn't have to be a guest today. Not everything's going to be enjoyable. You don't have to have a big song and dance about it every time. I love the way that she phrased it because it made me feel like the drama is this guest.
I don't know if people watch Real Housewives but I do and there's always drama. It's always drama. I was thinking of particularly some of those people on Real Housewives. They don't need to come to everything that I'm doing in my business. That character doesn't have to show up in my head. I love that concept. I love that not everything is going to be enjoyable and drama doesn't have to come.
I love that Rebecca was so honest and said, “I don't love writing books.” She has written so many and they are helping so many people. She doesn't love that actual process of sitting in front of a computer and getting it done but she does it. I love that concept, drama doesn't have to come. The second thing that I love and this is a big thing with her book having read the book and recommended the book to many people. I love that Rebecca talked about boundaries can be one of the biggest gifts that we give to other people. That's something we don't look at it from that viewpoint often.
Often, with boundaries, we think about ourselves, “How will I be perceived? What will people think of me if I do that, if I say no or if I say I'm not interested or if I turn down something?” Likewise, if you say, “No, I'm going to do it. I'm going to put myself forward and I'm putting boundaries on maybe something else.” We often think about ourselves rather than thinking, “If I'm setting a boundary, how does that help the other person?” They don't have to mind read. They don't have to imagine what your boundaries are.
It's important, especially in business. It's important in all relationships, particularly in business with who we work with. Whether the staff, ourselves, in-house, or whether it is suppliers, manufacturers, PR agencies, or whoever it is that we're clear on, “What do I need and what do you need?” I love the concept that setting boundaries is a gift. It's a gift for both parties. I love that Rebecca talked about how it's also a gift for that other person. Many good things came out of that conversation but those two resonated.
I'm going to add a third bonus one. I love the concept of thinking, “The opinion of my 80-year-old self is all that matters.” I find that a fascinating thing to think about. Also, considering where do you want to leave the world? What legacy do you want to have? You may think, “I'm not trying to make a huge legacy. I don't want to be famous. I'm not building an empire.” Every single one of us leaves a legacy on the people around us and quite often on people that we don't even know.
There are many people in my life that have impacted my life. I may have only met them for a short period. Some of them, I've never met but they have a giant impact on the way that I live my life. Never underestimate yourself. I love that concept of really thinking about, “What would my 80-year-old self have to say?” It's such a good guiding principle.
That is it for this interview episode. All the links to Rebecca's multiple products, beautiful books, and everything else will be over at MyDailyBusinessCoach.com/podcast/238. Of course, you can also find everything from Dr. Rebecca Ray over at RebeccaRay.com.au. If you want to find her on Instagram, it's @DrRebeccaRay.
Thank you so much for reading. If you found this useful, please share it with a business friend. It might help them. Who knows? Maybe they need to set boundaries a lot more. It is not uncommon. If you did find it useful and helpful, I would love it so much if you could give it a thumbs up, five stars, or even a text review if you can. It helps us get found on Apple, Spotify, and all the places, and hopefully helps other small business owners by doing so. Thank you so much for reading and I'll see you next episode. Bye.
