Episode 26: Fiona Killackey on how, why and what she did to write her first business book, Passion Purpose Profit (with Natasha Ace)
Fiona’s first book - Passion. Purpose. Profit. Sidestep the #hustle and Build a Business You Love is finally available on bookstores around the world. In this episode, one of her closest biz friends, Natasha Ace of Private Practice Alliance, interviews Fiona all about her book, how she got it published and why she approached a publisher instead of being self-published. At the end of this episode, learn how you can get a free signed copy of her new book and how you can win a one-on-one coaching with Fiona. Enjoy today’s episode!
Topics discussed in this episode:
Introduction [4:11]
On Passion. Purpose, Profit, Sidestep the Hustle and Build a Business You Love [4:37]
On Making Business Lessons Accessible [6:19]
On Hustling [6:52]
On Systems and Processes [10:38]
On Why Fiona Chose To Go To The Publisher [12:06]
On Finding Her Publisher [16:58]
On The Book's Design [20:35]
On The Process of Writing The Book [24:46]
On The Challenges of Writing The Book [30:00]
On The Pros and Cons of Self-Publishing [35:10]
On What To Expect from Fiona's New Book [39::23]
Where To Follow Fiona [41:15]
Giveaway [45:28]
Resources mentioned in this episode:
Episode transcript:
Hello and welcome to Episode 26 of My Daily Business Coach podcast.
In case you didn't notice today. We're shaking it up at a little bit and we have a special guest coming on to the show who I'm going to introduce you in one second. Let me first tell you who I am. I'm Natasha Ace. I'm a business coach and founder of Private Practice Alliance and also a very close friend of Fiona's. And we meet quite regularly to talk about business and to work through barriers and just hassles that kind of go through in business.
And when she told me she was writing her book, which got her publisher, I started begging her right away that we need to do something to interview her. So when she launched a podcast, of course, I brought it up again and I said, hey, let me interview you. So that's what we're doing today. We are going to interview Fiona on her own podcast. So let me do a proper introduction. I'm not even gonna try and pretend to put an Australian accent on.
On today's show, I'm super excited to introduce you to Fiona Killackey. No, I'm just kidding. We're not going to talk like that. Anyway, I am gonna say to you that Fiona does have a book that drops this week in bookstores. It's called Passion. Purpose. Profit. Sidestep the #Hustle and Build a Business You Love. It drops into bookstores near you around the world. So this is not just in Australia, not just in the United States, not just in the UK, but around the world. And if you're lucky enough to actually be able to go to a local bookstore, we recommend that you do and check it out.
Passion. Purpose. Profit. Sidestep the #hustle and Build a Business You Love is Fiona's first book, and she's going to tell us why she wrote the book, what she was thinking, what she really wants you to take away from it, and most importantly, how to enjoy owning your own business as a small entrepreneur. So if you keep listening, we actually got a few surprises for you at the end. We're going to tell you how you can win a one-to-one coaching session with Fiona at no cost. And we'll also be giving away five signed copies of her book. So make sure you keep listening and take up your pen and write down some notes, because Fiona is going to drop us some amazing tips and tricks to actually publishing your own book and some really cool ideas on what she has posted in her book coming out. All right. And let's bring on our guest, Fiona Killackey
Welcome to my own podcast. Thanks for the lovely intro.
Let's get into your questions. So, Fiona, for those of us who haven't actually had a physical copy in our hands yet and haven't read the book, tell us a little bit about the book and why you wrote it.
Okay, so the book is called Passion. Purpose, Profit, Sidestep the Hustle and Build a Business You Love. And basically, the reason that I wrote it was I just wanted to take all of the proven tactics and strategies and tips and everything that I've learnt over the last kind of 20 years and package it into something that was really accessible for anybody.
Accessible in terms of this book is going out to bookshops all over the world and online, but also accessible in terms of price. You know, not everyone can afford to do one-on-one business coaching or group coaching. And so a huge part of my business is education. And I believe, you know, it's just the way I was raised that education is the most important thing outside of being kind that you can get in life. And once you get education, no one can ever take it away from you. So I wanted to make it a really easily accessible tool for small business owners around the world. I see a lot of people and I get a lot of people coming to work with me who have gone down a path of perhaps paying an agency for a huge amount of work without understanding why that work was being done or what the objective was, or they've gone and paid for business coaching and not really gotten anything out of it. And so I wanted a way for them to be able to access the best frameworks and proven strategies in a really accessible (I know I keep saying that word) for them accessible format, which was why I wrote the book.
Yeah, and I think it's interesting because you're amalgamating all of these strategies that you're using. I mean, you've got an impressive resumé. I don't know. You don't really talk about this a lot on your podcast and your social media and things like that. But you're taking a lot of things you learnt in these big organisations and moving them into a format that's easily accessible for small businesses, right?
Yep, definitely. And that's something I get told a lot like, oh, you're very practical and you give really practical action-based information and you break it down into a way that I can actually understand. So, yes, definitely some of the stuff in there is for sure come from some of the amazing places that I've had the opportunity of working at.
And I noticed, too, like in your book, the book cover is actually called using the word Hustle. And I know Hustle is such a it's it's almost one of those words that people just use to use. I think I hear a lot of small businesses or people kind of having side hustles or doing this on a hustle, hustle, hustle, hustle, all you kind of really hear. And you, though, are using hustle in terms of sidestepping the hustle, which is a whole different idea than what's out there at the moment. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Yes, I can. As you know, Natasha, as we are good friends. I can't stand the word hustle. I definitely don't believe that you absolutely have to hustle, hustle, hustle. And I think what happens is that people confuse doing the work with hustling. So, yes, you have to do the work. Like, you can't just sit there and manifest everything. I'm all full manifestation and vision boards. But you also need to do your part for the universe to make things happen. And I think that's doing the work, which is very different to hustling. The hustle culture that I see is this whole oh, I'm glorifying working till 2:00 a.m. in the morning or glorifying not seeing my kids six days a week or I'm glorifying going it because that's what you have to do to build a business. And I just don't believe that. I think that's actually just B.S. to be an I actually think that these people need systems and processes. And that's not to say that at some parts you're gonna have to hustle like or, you know, not even hustle, but cuts down that. But you have to work harder than in other parts of your business. So if you're launching a new program or if you are writing a book or some other parts of your periods in your business, life will cause the need for you to work a bit harder. But I don't think you have to go into hustle territory. And that's why I say sidestep the hustle. Like, you don't need to be in that, I guess lane where it's just cutthroat and it's just work until you're crying at your computer or work until you're drinking the problem away or something else. I just don't believe that you have to hustle 24/7 to build a really good business these days.
Yeah. And I think our ethos is in line in that quite heavily in terms of when I talk to my clients, I'm saying, are you chasing your tail and you're feeling exhausted because you're just running in circles or are you actually running the marathon a pace yourself? And so everyone, you need to step it up or, you know, kind of slow it down, pacing yourself because you're running that race. And so there's definitely I think a lot of people think hustle. And I think they're running a marathon, but they're actually chasing their tail.
Totally! Oh, my God. And it's funny because you haven't even got the book yet. But in the end of the book, I talk about hustle. I mean, I talk about hustle a bit and how it's kind of just a word that's really, I think, negatively impacted the business industry. But one of the things that I say is that when people train for a marathon, they train like they have the right support systems in place. They have the right systems, they have a training schedule. They have people around them to help, you know, take care of the kids while they train or you know, they have the right food. They are doing things to help them achieve the goal of the marathon. And they don't say, oh, I hustled however many kilometres it is to run a marathon. But like, they don't say, oh, I hustled to the end. It's like, no, I planned this out. I knew where I was going. And I think that's what a lot of people don't do at the moment. They're just 24/7 hustling without actually having an objective or a place to go. Exactly. Like you said, they're chasing their tails.
Yeah. So that kind of goes into my next question, which is going to be I'm assuming I mean, I know your style in terms of your coaching and just even the things that, you know, you and I talk about in our businesses, you're very systems based and processes driven. There's no real fluff pie in the sky kind of things. That's the same for your email that comes out every Sunday, the same as your Facebook group and you know, your podcast, obviously. So tell us. Can we assume the same thing from your books?
Yes, definitely. I love systems because I think that systems can really one cover if there is no strategy. You know, like you say, a lot of people out there being like I'm a strategist and they more attacked. What would you call it? Like someone who does a lot of tactics, then? Not a strategy. I think when you create a system, you really quickly realise there's no strategy. But also I just think a system allows you to break things down. So instead of it being this huge, overwhelming task, you've actually got much smaller steps and a process for you to take to achieve that task. If that makes sense.
Absolutely. That's brilliant. I love that. It's definitely gives you that idea. Big picture and then action items that you mean and the big picture.
Yes,, definitely. I mean, in the book, there's definitely work around who are you as a person? What kind of impact you and I have on the world? And that's obviously in the title Passion, Purpose, Profit. You need to have a passion. And obviously, that's where a lot of businesses start. I believe that you need to have a purpose behind what you're doing. A greater purpose. The fact that we can even choose to be business owners is such a luxury in itself that a lot of the doesn't have. So there should be a purpose as a backbone of your business as well. But also at this profit, you need to actually make making money. Otherwise, it's just sort of a hobby.
Yeah, and I love that. So tell me a little bit about it. Because I wanted to pick your brain on this, not just your book, because I'm super excited about your book. And we're going have our hands on it this week. Just imagine all of these people crawled up on their couch with their dog and or cat and reading the book right and left you’re a mom and you're reading it as you're chasing your kid down the hallway.
I want to understand. I know people that have self published, but you have actually chosen to go through a publishing house. And I want to kind of understand the thought process around, you know, a little bit of the back end things that you did in order to make this dream of writing a book a reality. So can you tell us a little bit about why you chose to go the publisher and not self publish?
Okay, so I should give some context that I used to work in book publishing and it wasn't that long of a time, but I worked as a magazine editor and then I kind of was like, what am I doing with my life? Maybe books would be like more serious and thought provoking. And I was working in fashion magazines. I should say. So then I moved into book publishing and I worked there and I got to see how the whole system works. And behind every single book is a whole team of people, you know, working hard to make that book a success whereas self publishing - and I see a huge amount of people, especially in the industry, that I've been doing the self publishing thing. And, you know, that's great. That can totally work. But I think I also studied I did a postgraduate in editing and publishing. And I know the figures behind how many books actually sell versus how many books get published each year. It's been a publisher's best interest for your book to sell. So they are going to do whatever they can to try and get it into the best bookshops, to get it online. They get into a whole lot of the admin that I don't think one person necessarily could do the same as what ten or twelve people working on a book can do in terms of, say, even just getting it online. My book at the moment, like you said, it's coming out, which is really exciting, but it's available for pre-order. So many platforms. And if I was even to just try and get onto one of those platforms, it might take me half a day to figure that out and then figure out systems. And, you know, potentially I might make mistakes, but I'm uploading something. And I just think that is a huge part. It's the add me and all of that kind of backend stuff that you don't see. And then on the front end of what like, you know, person reading this will see is they have a whole design team that is working on design, like the design for this book I absolutely love. And I have to shout out the team at Hardie Grant Books and Andy Warren, who came up with the initial designs for it. They came up with things that I would never have come up with on my own. I'm not a graphic designer. So that's another thing that the self publishing process, you have to hire a graphic designer. I think one thing that comes up a lot in the self publishing business is getting a publishing traditional publishing house is the idea of how much money you will make.
And yes, if you go down a traditional publishing route, you will on average get between seven percent and fifteen percent royalties on a physical book. You'll get different percentage of royalties depending on e-books and audiobooks and all of that kind of stuff. Whereas if you self publish, yes, you're getting 100 percent of the sale price. And yet out of that, you have to have actually made the book or you're paying for a print on demand service. You have to do the marketing. You have to do the design. You have to do all that. I mean, like I said, uploading it to all these different platforms. And then the distribution is a huge factor. And the distribution was probably the key factor, I'd say, in getting a deal with book publisher because they have huge relationships with bookshops, with discount department stores, with all of the places that you want your book to get out, to market, to be able to reach a wider audience. That, again, you just don't have or if you self publish, you'll have to pay for a distribution agency to do that for you. So I know I kind of went off on a tangent there, but I hope that gives you some inkling as to why I chose a traditional publisher versus the self-publishing route.
Yeah. And one thing I didn't mention in there is this topic comes up a lot in just, you know, conversations I have with people. A lot of people want to write a book these days. So I have a Facebook group called The Good Business Group. And you can join in. It's free. And in there, I actually do a free one hour training on how to get published. And it goes through the pros and cons of working with a publisher, a traditional publisher versus self publishing. And I'm also I should just point out, I'm not like anti self publishing, if that's the route that you want to go down, but just make sure that you have to have really strong distribution, that the design, if that's important to your audience, might be something that you have to outsource. Yeah. Just understand that those relationships with bookshops or with marketing and that kind of stuff takes a bit of time to build up.
So can you tell us I guess how did you find a publisher? I mean, I don't know if you go into this, your Facebook group into that freebie or not. But how did you find your publisher?
So, I mean, I firstly, I should shout out my husband Jerome Rebeiro because he has heard me talk about wanting to write a book for so long. And we were just talking about it one night. And he was like, well, why don't you just do it? Let's stop talking about it and do it. And I was like, okay. And so then literally the next day I was like, who do I know that knows anything about publishing? And so I actually just looked on my bookcase. This is the first thing I'm like taking it way back. I looked at my bookcase and I looked at some of the books that I owned and I looked at who published them. And then I Google those publishers and I looked for submission guidelines. And what happened was that a lot of the submission guidelines were like, you need to send us 100 pages. That's like I'm not going to write 100 pages if I don't know if I don't have a clue if you're even interested in this book or if I write 100 pages and then you're like, actually, I like that part in that part. But like, I went to a totally different topic. So I was thinking, okay, well, I'd can’t submit one hundred pages. So then I was like, well, who do I know in my contacts that could tell me a bit about book publishing or maybe give me some ideas. So I reached out to I had done a postgrad in publishing 10 years earlier and I reached out to the guy who had run that at the time and sort of said, hey, I've got this idea for a book, a business book. This is what I've been doing with my life, basically. And he really cared. I mean, he did. He's lovely person. But, you know, I kind of hold on. I said, oh, I'm interested in Melbourne publishers or Sydney publishers. And he was like, well, who are you thinking? And I was like, oh, God, I have no idea. So and he was like, tell me more about your book. And so it's sort of I was just like, oh, my God, I don't really have an idea. Maybe that's where I should have started as opposed post like I want to write a book, but I didn't have a solid idea anyway. He was like, I you know, I think you should talk to this other person.
So I called her and I remember like I was in, like Aldi, the supermarket. She called I called her and I left a message and she called me back and she was like, well, I'm assuming you've got a book proposal. And I said, Yeah, sure do. And so she's like, great, can you send it to me this afternoon? And I can have a look and give me some feedback. And I was like, sure and I just bolted home and I literally was Googling how to write a book proposal and yet put it together since it took it that afternoon. And she was like, this is great. You know, I have some ideas of who we could talk to, which publishers we should talk to. Leave it with me. And I just heard nothing for months. And so I sort of like, well, I've got this book proposal. Should I just start sending it out to these people? And so as I was looking at LinkedIn, Hardie Grant, who have ended up with they were, you know, top of my list, one, they design beautiful books. And I knew that the design of the book had to appeal to my audience who are into the style and design. And also they just had, like, amazing authors on their books. So that was ideally who I wanted to go after. You didn't hear anything back from this woman. And then a couple of months later, I chased her up and she was like, oh, I'm so sorry. I was really busy. I'll send it on to somebody at Hardie Grant now.
Yeah. And then a week later, I got a call and being like, hey, come in and discuss your book. And it all just took off from there. So I was really, really lucky and totally lucky that that woman knew someone to go after. But I had already started researching people at Hardie Grant and I sort of looked on LinkedIn to see like who's in my circle that might know somebody who works there, that I could go in. So this woman completely helped me massively. But I also was willing to do the hard yards to kind of get in there myself as well.
There are so many things that I want to pick out of everything you've just said. So bear with me because I've got a lot of questions. So I know design is important for you. Mentioned it a couple of times. #marketingguru. That's what you do. Can you tell us how you set on on the design? Because I remember your meeting when you were going in to talk to the publishers about the design. They had been sitting with it and you called me and you were really nervous and you were like, oh my gosh, this is a huge component of my book. I don't know what to expect or like what happens if I don't like it or what happens if I have to change it. Like you had some questions around that. So tell us a little bit about how you settled on the design and you know where it came from.
Yeah. So like I said in the beginning, Andy Warren is a designer for this. He works on lots of different books. And Hardie Grant, you know, they have a design team as well who are amazing, who worked on this as well. So what happened is at that initial meeting with Hardie Grant, where I had no idea, I was like, are we meeting like, do you want to offer me anything? Is this just like literally a meeting to say hello? Like, I had no idea until the very end when they were like, we really like your proposal. We think we'd like to work with you. And was like, oh, okay great.
So in that meeting, actually, if you go into the Hardie Grant head office, which is in Melbourne, they have all their books out the front in there for. And I had been looking at some of the books there just while I was waiting to meet with the woman I was meeting with, and I had looked at them and I was just like, oh, my gosh, these people just know design so well. So in that initial meeting, we'd actually pick some books off the shelf of a foyer and sort of been talking like, do you like this? Do you like that? And I had made it really clear in the book proposal that the design was going to be a huge element. And one of the things that I talked about in the book proposal that I would definitely suggest to people if they're looking to create a book, is to do some competitor analysis. And that's something that you do in marketing a lot. But to look at the books that are out there in the kind of similar vein or niche and sort of look at how yours will be different. And what I thought was that a lot of the books that are in business are either a lot of them that have a person on the front cover who's like, hey, look at me, I can do it, too. Kind of like here I am. I definitely didn't want to be that. I wanted the work to be a useful thing.
And I didn't want it to be kind of like a thinly veiled biography of me. I wanted it to really actually be a business book to help people. So I definitely didn't want to have that. And so I had ideas for what I wanted it to look like. And they just brought it to life like they did went so far beyond what I had imagined, which was amazing. But in that first call, I remember exactly where I was calling you. And I think I actually also went on Instagram stories about like, oh, my God, I'm gonna go see the cover and the designs.
And that first meeting was really awkward because I, I didn't like any of the covers and they probably totally like she's a complete diva. But I saw all the covers was just like, oh, no, no, no, no, no. And I was really deflated a bit when I walked out. I was like, oh, my God. Like, no, but they were amazing. And they said, that's fine. You know, lots of people don’t like the first time they see something. We've got to get on the same page, which was amazing. So they were incredible to work with. And I'm not sure if every traditional publisher is going to be as accommodating as they were. But, yeah, when they actually came up with the design that we have now, I was just blown away and I was like, oh, my God, I love it. I love it, love it, love it.
I remember all of that. That was kind of hard. You're like, oh, no, I wonder if they're gonna be able to get it what I want. And then when they came out with their second round of covers, you were just ecstatic. You were like, this is everything really that you that embodies your brand and everything.
Yeah. And I just the colours that they chose and. Yeah. Just even just the way that Andy and the team there, they took some of the frameworks that I've been using for years and years and some that I've developed. And I just have these kind of crappy drawings that I've done in Canva and they were able to take them and just elevate them and was like, wow, that's amazing what they've done.
I've got two questions out of that, I think. One is so you kind of go through this process and you've been I mean, you had a baby managing a family. You know, you're you've got to obviously you're married and running your business and everything like that. You've had a lot of things that kind of went into it. But for me, watching from the outside, although I know that probably isn't how it felt like in the blink of an eye, you went from like idea to publication. And so I want to understand, like, did you use some specific systems and structures? Did you wing it? I mean, like I mean, I'm all for winging it in general. It doesn't always get me very far. Or did the publisher kind of say, here you go, this is everything you need to do and a nice little box?
Yeah. I mean, Hardie Grant are an amazing publisher and I can't thank them enough. And the whole team, they're like Roxy Ryan, Pam Brousseau, Lauren McDougle, like a whole whole team. There's so many people. They were amazing. So in terms of your question, yeah, I had a very short amount of time to write this. I got offered a book deal in around March or April of 2019, and then we decided kind of had to go back and forth on the contract for a bit. So the contract properly got signed off in July of that year. And then in the contract it was laid out kind of we had agreed on what size the book would be, how many pages. Rough word length. And we had to you know, this will have diagrams and things like that. But it wasn't until I started working with the editor, Lauren McDougal, on the elements that would be in the book. And I guess another great reason to go with a traditional publisher is that they're thinking about things. You know, this is their day job. This is what they do day in, day out. They're always doing lots of books. And you might be one of 20 that's getting released that month. So for you. Yes, it's like the biggest deal ever. But for them, it's what they do all the time. So what we came up with was that I would send them a sample chapter by the 29th of September. I remember that date because I was like, oh my gosh, I think it was the 30th of September. I asked for an extension. So between signing the contract in July, I had my son on the 24th of June and had to stay in hospital for a while. So yeah, I'd like got the contract. And then I basically wrote the first chapter in around a month and from that chapter. That was amazing because then Lauren and the team could then say, oh, you know, we think you'll need based on a sample cheque out. You'll need bullet lists. You'll need these different types of design elements. You'll need like tables. You'll need break out boxes. And also from that chapter, which was amazing, is that I had started the chapter with a story like Personal Story. And then I'd got into the kind of teaching element. And then they have activities at the end, actions to take. And so Lauren was able to be like, oh, okay. Is this the format? Will there be an opening personal story for every chapter? And I hadn't even thought about that. So I was like, oh, my God. Okay. Yes. That actually makes sense. And the fact that I had that first sample chapter, then I was able to create a format for myself. So I'm a big one on systems, like you said. So what I did was I got some Post-it notes out and I basically created like, if you work in Agile or scrum or you work in a Start-Up, you might have seen this where you're kind of creating different coloured Post-it notes according to a project. And so I created posts for each chapter. And I had a different colour for the opening story. And then I had colours for like what is actually gonna be taught. And then I had a colourful like, will somebody need a downloadable from this? Will they need, you know, a worksheet or what's the outcome of this chapter? And so then once I had that all up on the wall and I've moved things around so that everything made sense. Then I transported that into an Excel sheet or Google sheet, but then once I transported it and I had a chapter one opening story is this Chapter one teaching? Is this Chapter one actions of this? Then I was able to assign a word links to each of those. And so that was a lot easier because then I could break it down.
So, again, like I said a while ago, in one of the things I’ve rambled on about is I like to break things down into manageable steps. So instead of being like, oh, my God, I've got to write seventy thousand words in a couple of months with a new baby. It was like, OK, I just need to write the opening story for Chapter 11, which has to be related to branding, for example. And that needs to be six hundred words. I can do six hundred words. And so I just broke it down piece by piece. And then I also had whiteboards, you know that I love my whiteboards, Natasha. So I had every chapter up on a whiteboard. And when I would finish that chapter, I would cross it. I would do like the biggest cross off with my whiteboard marker. Yeah. And I kind of had dates assigned to those things. But basically, Hardie Grant, I did the sample chapter with them at the end of September. They gave me feedback and then I had until the end of the 29th of November to write the whole book.
You know, I admire the organisation that you put in together. And I've worked on some projects and I just look at the stuff and kind of pull out of nowhere and organise it. And I'm like, okay, well, it's like a pile of random sticky notes in front of you. Like here my ideas.
I'm wondering, though. I really want to know in that organisation. Right. I mean, like something has to go wrong. No, you can't go into something not wrong. Maybe necessarily, but you can't go into something even you've map it all out and have it go smoothly.
You've got a million things on your plate, clients and your your family and writing this book and everything. So what was something that kind of derailed you that you couldn't have organised or you couldn't have put into your spreadsheet or have a special colour sticky note for you?
I think I mean, obviously, firstly, my son, my my youngest son, Elio, he he was just weeks old when I started, and he was about five months old when I finished. A baby cannot be put into a good Excel sheet, and you can sort of be like, oh, today he'll be in a great mood, so I'll be able to get an hour's writing done. That doesn't exist with the child. So, you know, that was definitely something – again I need to shout out my husband. He was an incredible support. And also we decided that we would hire a nanny for a couple of hours a week, enabled me to have a couple of hours straight to write. So I had four hours a week straight when she would be here that I could write. So that was really important.
But one of the things that derailed is a good that kind of really shocked me was the permissions process. So I am definitely somebody who uses quotes a lot. And you know that I've always used them. They're all over my Instagram. I'm using them all the time with my clients and I have more of my office. So I wanted to use them in my book. And at the very, very first meeting, I think my publisher, Pam or Roxy, the head of marketing, had said, well, the day she the one of them had said, you know, let's just try and avoid quotes if you can. And I was like, Really? And they were like, you know, it's just the whole world of trouble. Like, it's really hard. And you'll spend a lot of time trying to access, you know, who was the original source of the quote and and how much is it gonna cost for us to have permission to reproduce that quote. And so I had kind of taken that.
I had heard them, but I was like, oh no, I wouldn't be that hard. And so I had to use quotes. I had use lyrics. I think this is a big difference when you say self published books. There are so many quotes and I quite, skeptical if those people actually went and sourced permission to use those quotes. So we had a couple of I had about maybe forty one or more, maybe like 60 kind of permissions that I needed to use. So it was either a quote or a lyric or a concept or that's the other thing like with marketing. I mean, so much I've been doing this for like almost 20 years. So a lot of these concepts, you've kind of heard them. You might have like I might have been someone who worked with me and Amazon might have said it first or I'm not really sure where I heard it first. And so then if you're putting it into a book, you actually need to trace the original source and said that was really hard to actually sit there and be like, oh, who came up with the buyer cycle? Who came up with the sales funnel? Like, who is it? And is that this person? Is it that person? And actually what you find is often that it goes either right back to like the 1800s and you like well or it's this person in this book. But then they actually are getting permission from somebody else's book. And so you'll end up talking to book publishers and be like, can I have permission to use this one tiny part? And they're like, oh, you know, we've got permission for the UK in Europe. We don't have permission for the U.S. market. You'll have to talk to this person. And they just took months, months of emails and phone calls.
And even, for instance, with one Nelson Mandela quote, I called so many different foundations and companies and eventually talked to people in South Africa. And they were like, we would rather not use this because it's never actually been verified. And the day after that email came through from them, I saw it on a billboard in Melbourne at a major event. And I was like, they never asked for permission. So I think that was a huge a huge eye opener. And if ever I was writing another book, I would be starting on the provisions as soon as I've started writing the book because it took so long. And also just the costs, like to use an Andy Warhol quote that took for to try and get down to the actual person who could give me a quote. And it was some crazy amount to use one five-word quote.
Wow. My jaw is on the ground because I do know people who have gone through self publish. And while it's been like a very hard task for them, I mean, I think the most devastating thing is they go through they've found a way to publish it. They've probably hired some sort of editor or some sort of person to help them edit the book. Then they go for their “book launch” and now they have just a bunch of books in a shed kind of sitting there. But it sounds like even with a publisher, you have put a lot of work in your own blood, sweat and tears into it with some amazing guidance and some amazing feedback from the team. What are the benefits of a publisher versus going out alone in self publishing? Because people are still going to self publish. They're still going to want to go out and create their cover photo in Canva and hire someone to help them edit grammatical errors in their book. And they're gonna want to do this. So what do you think the pros and cons of self publishing or pros and cons of getting a professional publisher are.
Yeah, I mean, I spoke to this a bit before when I kind of spoke about that. But I think there's a few things that I didn't mention.
One is even just the editing process. So I've worked as an editor and magazine editor and book editor and that sort of stuff. So I have a maybe deeper understanding of it than, say, someone who's never done that. There are different types of editing, so there is going to be a copy editor. So they are going to do the core reticle errors. But there's also a structural editor. So a structural editor might be each chapter needs an opening story or this section that is in Chapter 11 would actually make a lot more sense if it was moved up to Chapter 2. So that is actually changing the structure of the whole thing. And I think sometimes when people go down self publishing, they like it. I'll get an editor and I've actually edited self-published books and I just make it really clear, you know, I'm doing a copy edit and I can do a structural edit. That's a different cost. But you want to make sure if you're doing that, if you're self publishing, it makes sure that when you're getting an editor at your asking, is this just a basic copy edit or is it a structural edit.
With a structural edit, obviously you want somebody who also maybe knows your industry, knows your audience, that kind of thing, in terms of pros and cons. I mean, there's so many. One is you can potentially make more money doing self publish because you get twenty nine dollars, you get the whole book fee. However, like I said before, you've got to hire all these different people. The other thing is that before you even write a book, I should have mentioned this. You want to think about like what's your objective with the book? So one of my objectives definitely to educate people, to help people. I've worked in book publishing, so I also realised that no one makes crazy amounts of money from book publishing, like it's maybe a myth that's out there. Yes, you can make an advance can be great, but even the advance, you usually get paid that in three actual instalments, not all at once. But what the book allows you to do if you go with like a traditional publisher is to get all the marketing and all the PR and everything else, which could then lead to know more speaking gigs or more work or more money coming in a different path as opposed to directly from the book if that makes sense.
Whereas if you self publish depending on your networks, you might also get the same outcomes. But yeah, was self publishing. You can maybe get a bit of money at the start. But like you said, you know, people that have self publishing and now they've got all these physical books that are sitting there. And what I've seen a lot of is, you know, here's my book. You only have to pay the shipping fee. And that's just a way to get the book out there, which is not necessarily again, you're not making the full amount that you thought you potentially would make. I also just think everyone I've talked to, like bookshop owners and media when I've said, oh, it's published by - they have taken it a lot more seriously than when, you know, if they haven't known if I'm self published or not, they're like, oh yeah, cool. Yeah, we should stop that. And then when I say, oh, it's from you know, Hardie Grant like oh yeah, of course we've already got an account, we've had a grant. We love how to grant blah blah. So I think there's pros and cons and you've got to just figure it out for yourself. But I also think that one thing I've mentioned is that it's not as hard as you think it is. Like, you know, I'm not saying it was super easy process, but it also I think people don't even bother approaching a book publisher when potentially the book publisher might be like, yes, we would love your story.
Yeah, I would never imagine. I remember you saying, oh, I've just approached a book publisher. And I was like, oh, like, did you email them?
I mean, the worst thing that they can say is no. I have an approach to everything in my life. Like, the worst they can say is no, they're not going to be like you are the worst person in the world. How dare you? Don't bother me. Yeah, well, the reason is so important. They're either just not going to get back to or they're going to, you know, hopefully get back to or they're gonna say this isn't right for us or we're publishing something similar or something else like that. I think that not enough people just try. Like, if you try and you've tried five publishers and they've all said no and you've tried to get an agent, no one likes it by myself, publish and try and go that route. But yeah, I just think it's not as difficult as maybe it's perceived to be.
Well, and I think you've given a lot of helpful hints and some structure in how to go about actually finding a publisher and some roadblocks that people might have that may not be as experienced as you go and get a publisher. So that's phenomenal. I want to know, Fiona. My last question for you is, you know, I subscribe to a newsletter. I don't really listen to podcasts, but I listen to your podcast. Thank you. Is a tip because they're short and easy. And I don't have to listen to something for an hour. I love that. And I'm in your Facebook group and you're constantly sharing so much useful information in there. So thank you so much. I really feel like it's shaped me as a human and as a business owner. Tell us what you would love for someone to take away from this book and how they can immerse themselves like I do in your social media and on your different platforms.
And likewise, straight back at you, Natasha Ace. That's very nice of you. I know that you hate podcasts. I can't understand that. But anyway, gosh, if anything, I would love them to take away confidence. I would love them to read it and be like, okay. I understand that concept now. And if I'm going to make the decision to invest in an SEO agency or if I'm going to make the decision to invest in hiring somebody or any other part of their business, that they actually have the confidence to understand what they're doing, what the objective is, and they have frameworks and tools to help them work through things as opposed to somebody told me I should do SVO and I'm going to go and pay thirty thousand dollars to an agency and then I'm going to get to the end of the year and be like, I don't actually know what they did. I don't understand at all. Now, obviously, my book is not on SEO, but it is definitely giving people kind of the steps. And I really hope the guidance to come out the other end and feel confident in lots of different elements about business.
And they can follow you in your social.
Yes. You can come and talk to me. I'm on Instagram a lot at @mydailybusinesscoach. You can email our team at hello@mydailybusinesscoach.com The Good Business Group that you mentioned before, that is just a free Facebook group. We have around seven hundred and thirty seven hundred and fifty small business owners in there. You know, a lot of them are amazing at what they do and a lot of them do expect free training and Q&A. So there's so many video trainings in there for free. And it's just yet a way to really have a supportive base that is just not a you know, there's a lot of Facebook groups out there that are just promo, promo, promo. And I really wanted to make kind of a space where people felt. They could come in and they could ask a question and actually get some really good answers from people who run their own business. So yeah come and join that. That's the good business group on Facebook.
And for those maybe younger generation that's not on Facebook or the older generation I'm generalising here that aren't necessarily on Instagram. You've got a good old fashioned Sunday email that comes out weekly with so much information.
Yes. I have a weekly e-mail. I send it every Sunday. It's about a thousand words and it's on various topics. Just to help you really to insights. I mean, my dad, he was a captain on the ship for a long time, but he was a master mariner. And he's the whole reason we came to Australia was because he got a teaching job at RMIT. Yeah. And I just think my mom went back to it and she was a nurse and she went back to Uni to become a social worker later in life. And I was just blessed to have a family that really, really valued education. And I just think that if the whole world can access education would be much better state than we are at the moment. So on my very, very small scale, I send out that weekly email so that people can get access to free information about business to help their own small business journey.
It's actually brilliant because I have even my clients. I am always encouraging people to sign up to your Sunday emails and my clients have an accountability group that I run, you know, on a weekly basis. And they'd ask me a question is what just happened last week? They asked me a question and one of the people in my group said, Oh, Fiona, Fiona just put an email out exactly how to answer this. And I was like, yes, she did. Actually, this is perfect. And I gave them the link to sign up. And I forwarded the email to them because it was so I made my job easier.
Thank you so much. It's the best thing I ever did in my business. I think starting that some that, you know, with like nine subscribers getting now and growing and growing. Yes. Thank you.
How do people get in touch with you, Natasha? Other people may be listening to you and do like who's this chick? And I want to know more about her. So where would I contact you to, Tasha?
I work quite specifically with allied health professionals who want to run a business but come up against the marketing barriers that they would have in terms of growing that business. Like, you know, psychologists can't use testimonials in their marketing materials and they are not allowed to solicit people to send them referrals or thank them for sending referrals. So a lot of translation needs to happen. So my stuff is mainly for clinicians and private practise, but they can find me on Instagram. @private_practice_alliance, Facebook as well. They find me on LinkedIn. Natasha Ace. And again, these are mainly my social channels.
Thank you so much FEARnet for coming on to your own podcast. I appreciate you letting me take it over. I cannot believe how much information that you gave us. All the brilliant insights and knowledge that you have. As I mentioned at the start of this episode, we are giving away.
We are giving away five signed copies of Passion, Purpose, Profit, Sidestep the Hustle and build a business you love. And one of those five will also win a one-to-one coaching session with Fiona at no cost to them. So what do you need to do to win?
Just tell us what you think about my daily business coach podcast. You can do that via Instagram. If you want to message it. Or you could do it by a video Instagram DM any kind of things like that, sharing your favourite episode on social media. But you have to tag @mydailybusinesscoach or we're not going to be able to see that you have shared it and or by leaving a review on this podcast on iTunes. So the winner will be announced on Tuesday, the 29th September.
I'm assuming that's Melbourne time. So if you're in the United States, you're going to need to be mindful that you need to enter by Tuesday, this twenty second of September 2020. I know if you weren't able to get all the details that we just rambled on because you were listening to this while you were running or driving or multitasking.
You can't get the show notes for today's episode over at mydailybusinesscoach.com/podcast/26. And if you want to hear more small business tips, make sure you hit subscribe.
Thanks for listening to My Daily Business Coach podcast. If you want to get in touch, you can do that at mydailybusinesscoach.com or hit me up on Instagram at @mydailybusinesscoach.
Contact Natasha Ace, Private Practice Alliance
So my stuff is mainly for clinicians and private practise, but they can find me on Instagram. @private_practice_alliance, Facebook as well. They find me on LinkedIn, Natasha Ace.
Giveaway:
We are giving away five signed copies of Passion, Purpose, Profit, Sidestep the Hustle and build a business you love. And one of those five will also win a one-to-one coaching session with Fiona at no cost to them. So what do you need to do to win?
Just tell us what you think about My Daily Business Coach podcast. You can do that via Instagram. If you want to message it. Or you could do it by a video Instagram DM any kind of things like that, sharing your favourite episode on social media. But you have to tag @mydailybusinesscoach or we're not going to be able to see that you have shared it and or by leaving a review on this podcast on iTunes.
Contact Fiona:
You can come and talk to me. I'm on Instagram a lot at @mydailybusinesscoach. You can email our team at hello@mydailybusinesscoach.com.
The Good Business Group that you mentioned before, that is just a free Facebook group you can join today.
You can't get the show notes for today's episode over at mydailybusinesscoach.com/podcast/26. And if you want to hear more small business tips, make sure you hit subscribe.
