Episode 262: Providing access to great design in small spaces with Ryan McCormack, co-founder of Base Cabin
As a business owner, do you get anxious about something that is out of your control? In today's episode, Fiona chats with Ryan McCormack, co-founder of Base Cabin. They talk about how the business started, their business journey, and so much more. Tune in!
Topics discussed in this episode:
Introduction
Why, when, and how the business started
On having a business partner
How they got through COVID
On Motivation
Tiny homes
Tools, apps, and resources that helped Ryan
What's next for Base Cabin?
Conclusion
Get in touch with My Daily Business Coach
Resources and Recommendations mentioned in this episode:
“Letting things go that you can't control sounds simple. I'm a bit of a worrier and a bit of a 2:00 AM thinker thinking about all the potential risks that can go wrong and projects. Being able to have that mindset change and understanding that there are certain things you can't control and you need to let those go helps free you up and free up your mind space as well.”
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Welcome to episode 262 of the My Daily Business Coach podcast. I'm excited to bring you this interview with an amazing, creative, and humble small business owner who is one half of a cool brand that if you don't already know about, you'll be excited to learn more about. Before we get stuck into that, I want to acknowledge the traditional owners and custodians of the beautiful land on which I record these interviews and this podcast and that is the Wurrung and Wurundjeri people of the Kulin nation. I pay my respects to their elders, past, present, and emerging, and acknowledge that sovereignty has never been ceded.
The other thing I want to mention before we get stuck is that group coaching is officially open. If you would like to apply for the next round of group coaching, our twelve-month group coaching program, that is open now. It kicks off in early March 2023. We will be doing interviews for that in late January and early February 2023. You can find everything about group coaching, what it entails, and how much it is when we meet all of that over at MyDailyBusinessCoach.com/groupcoaching. If you are lucky enough to get on the waitlist for group coaching, you can look forward to some extras including more one-on-one time with me and some other goodies.
If you did put yourself down on the waitlist, well done. Also, look out for an email because you will be getting an email to set up a time to talk. I can't wait to meet people. I've been doing a little internet research on those people who put themselves down on the waitlist. I already know that this is going to be such an interesting and creative group like they all are. One of the most fun things of what I do in My Daily Business Coach is the group coaching. If you want to apply, it's over at MyDailyBusinessCoach.com/groupcoaching. Let's get into our small business interview.
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If you are anything like me, you are no stranger to watching home renovation shows or anything about architecture or interior design. I watch a lot of those types of shows. I'm genuinely interested in it. One of the shows that I watched a few years ago, probably pre-pandemic that I used to love watching was either called Tiny House or Tiny House Movement, I can't remember but it was in the US.
Also, to watch how incredible these tiny spaces were at being functional but also looking good. It was amazing to watch. You think, “Do I need a bigger house? Do we need this? Look at these people, they can live in this small space but do so well.” It also goes hand in hand with the minimalist movement, having a home, the whole Marie Kondo, home edit, and all of those things.
When our guest contacted me for coaching, I was 10,000% yes, this is a great fit because what they're doing with their business is incredible and changing the way that we view homes, holiday homes, and investment in design. I am speaking to one half of Base Cabin. I'm speaking to the Co-founder, Ryan McCormack, who, together with David Clarke, runs Base Cabin. If you are interested in beautiful homes, you want to go and check out their website sight, BaseCabin.com, and their Instagram, which is @BaseCabin, for some beautiful designs.
Base Cabin is run by David Clarke, a master builder, and Ryan McCormack, who has a wealth of knowledge in terms of project management, property, and all sorts of things. They've come together to create Base Cabin, which is not just architecturally designed beautiful tiny homes but they're award-winning. These guys have won multiple awards. It's clear to see why when you go and check out BaseCabin.com or their Instagram, @BaseCabin.
The other thing that's important here is that they're not just beautiful and architecturally designed but they are making access to those things affordable for a lot of people. Their Base Cabin starts at around $70,000 and it's Australian dollars. The more changes and the more different things that you want and the more customization, the price is probably going to go up. The average price I saw in Sydney is about $1.1 million or $1.2 million, the average price in Australia. This is with prices falling at the moment.
The average price in Melbourne is shy of $1 million. It changes between the states in Australia. From Tasmania, it's around $600,000 or $700,000 and then it goes right up. For a lot of people, that is unimaginable, even getting a deposit for that seems completely unattainable. To be able to provide a way for people to access not only any type of home but an architecturally designed beautiful home that has been crafted by master builders right here in Australia. It's innovative and it's changing the game for many people.
Likewise, if people are looking for a holiday home they could Airbnb and have that as a type of income for them, particularly maybe later in life or maybe they are in a rural or regional area and they are looking for bringing more income and stabilizing that income from a recurrent revenue stream like an Airbnb property or a holiday home. It's opening up that access to people that may not have been able to access that previously and not with architecturally designed homes.
It is my pleasure to talk to Ryan McCormack all about how they came up with the idea for it, how it works, how they partnered with these incredible architectural firms, and how they worked as partners. Dave and Ryan live quite a distance away from each other so how does that work on a practical level? Here is my interview with Ryan McCormack, the co-founder of Base Cabin.
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Hello. Welcome to the podcast, Ryan.
Hi, Fiona. How are you going?
I'm good. I'm glad we're making this happen. I always like to ask people, where are we meeting you at? Where are you based?
I'm based in Geelong, Victoria South Coast.
That's a more recent move. Are you already calling it G-town or you're not there yet?
I’m a G-town original. I lived in Melbourne for fifteen years and then the whole pandemic with the family and I moved back.
One of my best friends met a guy in Geelong and then tried to make it work long distance and then eventually gave up and moved to Geelong and he’s loving it. He’s been there for years and years now. It's a beautiful part of the world. Did you say you grew up there?
I did. I grew up in a small town called Queenscliff on the Bellarine Peninsula. A big change from the city of Melbourne but we’re loving it. It's a lot quieter and it's nice to spend our weekends.
Talking of weekends, that leads in perfectly to what you do and why I wanted to chat with you. I mentioned how we connected and a little bit about your business but I'd love for you to tell us what is Base Cabin. Why, when, and how did you start it?
At its heart, Base Cabin is a builder of architecturally designed tiny houses and cabins. My business partner and I, Dave, met a number of years ago after he was traveling around Canada in a vintage van. When he came back, we saw there was a gap in the market in Australia for well-designed and thought-out tiny house spaces. We've started in 2019 and we've gone from there.
I love how you're humble about that, you've gone from there, you've won all these awards, a massive waitlist, and everything else. Dave had that experience but did you have any experience with tiny homes? Where did the architectural part come into it? Is that more on your side?
I have no previous experience with it. My background is as a development manager. Day to day, I’m involved in large-scale commercial developments. I always love to do a project. My wife hates it but we've done a number of renovations over the years. At the time, when Dave came back from Canada, we sold a project so I was looking for something else to do. The business was born from there.
Part of the attraction of Base Cabin is that you've got these master builders but you're also working with these incredible architects. How did you go about getting those architects on board? Is that because of your background? Did you call? Second to that, were you ever worried that someone was going to steal that idea and be like, “We can do them ourselves.” Did you think, “No, they're not going to go near it.”
We spoke to a number of architects early on and a lot of them felt quite restricted because the footprints we were working in the spaces are not much bigger than a standard bedroom space. If you've ten square meters in total, in that, you've got to fit your bedroom, kitchen, bathroom, and living space as well. We spoke to a number of architects and they weren't keen on going with it. Eventually, we met Studio Edwards, Ben, and Nancy. Now, we came for the challenge.
We worked with them on our first design and that's the one we've received a lot of press for worldwide and a number of awards as well. It was a great opportunity there. The collaboration was built on those with a number of other Melbourne architects. In terms of stealing our ideas, we’re not too worried these days but early on, we were a bit paranoid that someone else would jump on it. As we've built the business, you figure out that it's challenging to fit so much in such a small space.
I can only imagine. We are getting a renovation and because of where we are with the bushfire overlay, our architects are restricted by how much space everything can be. They keep going, “It is hard to fit everything that you want in this tiny space.” I can't even imagine trying to fit it all into an actual tiny house rather than a house.
You have mentioned Dave, David Clarke is your co-founder and is a master builder. Relationships are crucial to running a successful business whether that's you and Dave, YouTube with your partners, and staff and supplies, especially these architects as well. I'm wondering, with Dave, you mentioned before that he's a friend, how did you guys meet?
As you've grown this business together, what have been some of the best or maybe even the most challenging parts of running a business with a partner? When I was working with you guys, you didn't live anywhere near each other. I’m wondering if you can talk through that because there are always people who contact us saying, “I'd love to get into a partnership with a friend. Can I get your feedback?” I'm not in a partnership so I'd love to know what your feedback is.
We're business partners. We met on Gumtree.
Were you selling something?
No. I was completing my first renovation and I needed a builder to help me build a deck and Dave was on Gumtree. That’s how it all started.
That's cool.
We live apart so our workshop and our main base is in West Gippsland in a small town called Korumburra. I'm about three hours away from there. It's still challenging having the onus between the two operations but technologies certainly help us because we can communicate any time of the day on a number of platforms and it allows us to run a business effectively and remotely for myself.
In terms of how we work, we've both got good strengths that we bring together and create a great business. I look after the front end of the business, marketing, project management, and sales. Dave looks after what I call the back end of the business or the construction side of things. He's a master builder. He's got over fifteen years of experience building architectural homes but wanted to do something completely different to what he'd done in the past. We've both got different strengths but combined, it works well.
The worst part of running a business is it can be challenging at times to manage time and expectations and start up a small business. I'm working a second job at the moment. It's still a bit of a side hustle for myself or Dave’s to the business. It's trying to find the time of the day and work with each other on that. Small business owners would know that, early on, there's not a lot of pay coming out of it. I can supplement that with my income whereas Dave is working the business.
You mentioned time being a crucial factor and also the fact that you're in distance apart. I do know Korumburra very well. My sister lived in Korumburra for a long time on a beautiful farm there. It's a lovely part of the world. I get that time, timings, and everything can be hard. The other thing is that you are also a dad. Women always get asked, “How do you juggle a business?” You've got a business plus a job with a family. How does that work for you?
It's having a considerate and appreciative wife that helps out. Everything's very busy. My wife is a creative director and a graphic designer. She's quite busy with her business. We've got two kids. Things are busy but we managed to make it work. There's a lot going on.
With the kids and with everything else, shout out to your amazing wife. You also had to do this whilst in lockdown, selling tiny homes of which many may be used for holidays, renting out as holiday accommodation, or anything else like that. You're doing all of that during a lot of lockdowns. You're based in Victoria like myself and you were in Melbourne during this.
We're all out of lockdown or most people are but I'm wondering if anyone is dealing with something where there are external forces that they can't control. Do you have any advice? Was there anything that kept you going throughout the pandemic when you were trying to build this business? It's going well but it's not at a point because of external forces where you can have a big showroom, you can have lots of people down and visiting Korumburra, for example. How did you get through that?
Technology changed things. A couple of years ago, people wouldn't have committed to a $1,000 tiny house online. During the lockdown, we had numerous Zoom meetings and catch-ups with potential clients. They were comfortable enough to commit to working with us online. A lot of our clients, we've never met in person. We've designed and built tiny houses for them and they’re willing to stay in Australia and then we've sent them off for delivery. Technology has changed the way we do business and it means that we can operate remotely, which we probably couldn't have done a couple of years ago.
You've got this demanding job. Is there anything that you do to keep yourself motivated? You have got a long list of things to do every day. Whenever I've met you, you've always got a smile on your face even if you're super busy. How do you keep motivated to keep going?
I love the opportunity to design these tiny house spaces. A part of my day job, as I call it as well, is solving problems and looking at design and how we can build better in our community. Being able to do that on a ten-story building space and even with a tiny house is the enjoyable part of the business. Solving these issues and how we can design better and better, if I'm going to be a part of that, that's a great opportunity. As part of breaking it down, it's probably using my project management background looking at tasks and processes and how we can do these massive projects but put them in small chunks on it on a daily basis.
That's good advice. Whether you're building a house or something small, everything can be done if you go down to, like, “What's one first step that I can make towards making it happen?” I was lucky enough to work with you throughout the pandemic or part of the pandemic. Having seen your business, it was already flourishing. I had nothing to do with that. I got to witness it. Why do you think that tiny homes have taken off the way that they have?
You and I are based in Australia. Your co-founder had gone around Canada. You see all these American TV shows where they have these tiny houses and you think, “That's over there.” In Australia, we are brought up with a mentality of getting a big house and acreage and all this stuff that is so much pressure. When you live overseas like in London or Europe, you don't see that much pressure of everyone having to own their first home. Why do you think tiny homes have taken off in this country? Traditionally, we haven't had that mentality if that makes sense.
There are probably two strings to it. Why they've taken off so much in Australia is there are probably definitely a group of younger people, Gen Z, that are seeing these tiny house spaces and seeing what they can do with them. They may feel that they can't own their own home and it's an achievable goal in the long term. They’re turning to the tiny house spaces because they are a lot full than building that large traditional home.
In parallel to that, there’s the short-stay accommodation market, which is the area where I've focused on. There are some key operators in that space that have taken the last few years in Australia and they're growing into these large businesses because people want to escape and get out of the city and experience nature. Having a tiny house on a farm on a piece of land is an achievable way of doing it and opening up these places for people to come and know them.
If anyone hasn't been following you, I'm sure a bunch of people will jump on and follow you. Even when I was working with you, I was showing my husband, “Where could we put it?” They're beautiful. The brand has experienced so much love and rightly so, it is divine what you create. It’s not just the actual product but all of your marketing and your website and everything looks beautiful. It hits a note.
Sometimes people can then assume that if the business is doing well because you have got this pipeline of sales, you've got a lot of interest, you're winning awards, and getting media, it's all smooth sailing. Being able to scale and respond to that growth can be incredibly hard. I've seen that with many clients where, outwardly, it's like, “Look at them.” They're like, “The actual keeping up with that is difficult.” I'm wondering, what are some of the things that you've had to implement in terms of staff or systems? Maybe that's coming from your background as well. What's worked with those and what perhaps hasn't worked so well?
Making sales and generating that interest has probably been the easy part of the business over the last eight months because we've got what is a great product, it’s well-designed and it works well on Instagram. The building side of things in the last twelve months has been a challenge like construction supply issues. We've had to work well and work with like-minded suppliers to find the pipeline of the building materials that go into all of it. Building those processes around the businesses has been one of the challenges for myself.
Coming from a background in development, we got the project management skills, which we can use but having to effectively go and hustle and look for products has been the stuff part. In Australia, there's been a huge expansion in the construction industry. Finding good people that want to align themselves with our goals and aspirations with the businesses and building tiny houses has been a challenge. We're always on the lookout for new people.
If anyone's reading and they're a master builder, should they get in touch? Should they be like, “I live near Korumburra, I'd love to get involved,” if they're a builder?
Absolutely. We're always on the lookout for great builders. It's tough out there and it's not easing up. With uncertainties in the market, we're still finding it tough to find new people. If you live down in Gippsland or if you want a sea change, get in touch.
I'm going to put you on the spot. A lot of the images that you see from Base Cabin are in these beautiful locations like up on a mountain somewhere, the valleys, and gorgeous things. I’m wondering, outside of Geelong, where are your favorite places to go? If you were having a tiny house or you were having a weekend away, are there certain parts of the country that you absolutely adore or, similarly, places that Dave loves going to?
It's been interesting, some of our tiny houses were delivered through third-party deliveries but a lot of the time as well, we have to deliver them ourselves. We've been driving all over Australia. We've been to some beautiful spaces like the Hunter Valley, which is on the mid-north coast of New South Wales, which is this sub-tropical region, and a lot of farming areas. There are these beautiful rivers and valleys. We love that. Even closer to home, there are some amazing spaces along the south coast of Victoria. If I could build a tiny house myself, which I’d probably do in the near future, we'll place one down there, and use it as a place to get away to on the weekend and go surfing and mountain biking.
It sounds nice. It must be hard for you when you're working this other job to also be looking at these beautiful places of your clients and customers who bought these houses and have got these idyllic lifestyles. Do you ever think, “I should’ve packed it all in, get a tiny house, and lived my adventures?”
We’d love to. There are some amazing places that you would never normally know or see. We delivered one to the Blue Mountains. There are these stunning locations all around the country that you don't know they're there until you visit them. Being able to build these tiny houses, which people live in or use as short-stay accommodation, you get to visit some amazing spaces around the country.
I need to get out there and travel a bit more myself. I'm also putting you on spot again. You moved at the end of one of the lockdowns in the city of Melbourne down to the coast. Did it make you declutter or get rid of stuff? You've seen all these ways that people can live in this tiny space. Has it had any impact on the actual way that you live in your normal house now?
Two young kids, Fiona. There’s nowhere we go.
You can dream.
Between Pokemon cards and everything else, we decluttered when we moved. We try and keep it under control. With a couple of young kids who love to draw and love to create art, there's always stuff everywhere. Anyone that can live in a tiny house space, especially with kids, I take my hat off to them because it would be a challenge. It's insane as well. We're always working in and refining what we do and how we add more smart storage into our spaces. As we go along and design more of these tiny houses and cabins, we’re getting a lot better at incorporating that smart storage base and squeezing a lot into the space. It's part of the challenge and part of the fun.
I hear you on the kids’ front. Yes, smart storage, we could all use it. Even with our renovation, my husband and I have constantly sat and gone, “Why do we need a bigger house?” We do, we're going to be on top of each other, and it's not going to be some big mansion at all but it is that concept where we all sometimes think we need more and more for more and more crap that we don't need. I love looking at the designs that you've done and even with our house being like, “What can we do where it's considered and everything has its place? Yes, I also have children. You try and put everything behind like a cupboard or something and it spills out, it somehow comes back out.
You have helped and you are continuing to help many people realize their dreams of having this architecturally designed home or tiny house or cabin. I'm wondering, who has helped you with the business? Obviously, you've got a lot from your career and you've mentioned your wife and you're in a partnership with Dave. Have there been any mantras, quotes, documentaries, books, or anything that have helped you with your business?
Definitely yourself, you’ve been a massive help in helping us put some structure in the business. Being our first business outside doing rental renovation projects or these other small projects on the side, being able to put that structure in the business in the first two years of operation has been key. It's going to help us grow and continue to expand and put the processes in place. If you don't have that back end of the business in place, it makes it hard as you start to scale up and take on more projects. Thank you for that.
Thanks very much. I agree with the structure part as well, for sure.
There are a couple of people that stand out. There was an article in one of our local papers from Ben Crowe, who's a mindset coach. He works with Ash Barty and a number of high-performing athletes and also business leaders. I did one of his online courses and part of the learning was being able to let things go that you can't control. That sounds simple. I'm a bit of a worrier and a bit of a 2:00 AM thinker thinking about all the potential risks that can go wrong and projects. Being able to have that mindset change and understanding that there are certain things you can't control and you need to let those go helps free you up and free up your mind space as well.
I love Ben Crowe. I have his Mojo app. Is that what you were using, the app?
Yeah.
That's such a good one.
It's amazing. From a design and development side, my cousin runs a Melbourne-based development company called Milieu. Over ten years, they've built the company up from scratch into what is probably the leading design developer in Melbourne, if not in Australia. They’re a market leader in what they do. They do some amazing projects and work with amazing architects and designers. He's a leader in the space and someone that I can talk things over with.
I love that, family-focused. What's your cousin's name so we can call him out?
Michael McCormack.
Go, Michael McCormack. It’s always lovely to be able to connect with your family. I agree with the Ben Crowe stuff. Likewise, outside of people, have there been any apps or platforms? Especially because you guys are so far apart, you and Dave, what tools are you using technology-wise for the business to flourish?
We do use a number of tools to help us run the business because it’s been online and apart from the actual physical structure of the tiny house. We use Xero for all our financing and accounting. It's been a massive help being in the first business and trying to get our heads across all of that. It's a huge assistance in running the finances day to day.
We also use Trello and Google Docs for all our internal information sharing in the tiny houses. Given there's so much detail that goes into each build and each customer looking to customize in some way, Trello is a great tool where we can load up each project onto the boards, and then anyone can access that data and pull it down. It's been a massive help to us.
From our client side, we use WhatsApp. For each build, we set up a group and we can share photos and videos with the clients and work through any of those last-minute details with them. It's an easy way where we can contact instantly and share information. From a marketing perspective, Instagram has been a powerful tool in that instance because we can reach anyone all over the world. We've had so much acquiring from overseas from Europe, Japan, and the US. Many people would love for us to export our tiny houses. We’re not quite there yet but that means that we can reach anyone. Given our tiny house is such a striking architectural product, it's been a key part of the business.
It's great. It's such a visual platform. If anyone is not already following you, check out @BaseCabin. It makes you want to jump into one of those photos. It's aspirational and inspiring as well. You've been in business for a few years now, what would you say you're most proud of from the journey so far?
Being able to build it to where it's at now and being able to design these beautiful and innovative spaces. It's part of the business. I enjoy unlocking designs and figuring out problems and how we can solve them. Creating these little spaces that we take into parts of Australia. It’s always fun to work with the clients and understand what they're looking to get out of the space and then work with our architectural partners to come up with something that hits the spot.
They’re beautiful. It must feel nice to be huge and amazing moments in people's lives are going to be spent in this thing that we've created. For a lot of people, it'll be a beautiful weekend away, or it'll be a family holiday. We were talking about somebody who's bought it and who is going to have it at their family's place so that they can stay every time they come. Many memories are going to be within those walls that you guys have created. It's awesome.
We've got some clients who have got amazing stories. Our first client, she's this amazing woman who bought the tiny house as a home base on the Sunshine Coast in Queensland. When she's not staying there, she travels around in this tiny little caravan around Australia on her own. There are some amazing people we met as part of the business.
We had a caravan growing up in Phillip Island and I used to go there quite often with my mom when I was a young teenager. All my siblings were too old and too cool to come down to the island. They were such beautiful memories, cozy, and lovely. What is next for you and Base Cabin? Where can people connect with you? If they're reading this and they want a job or if they're reading this and they want a cabin, where's the best place to connect? What's next?
We’re launching a number of new designs with Australian architects. We’re putting out feelers at the moment to start working with some New Zealand clients, which is going pretty amazing. We're looking at new studio spaces as well. Whilst a lot of people love the tiny houses on wheels, there are also people that are always looking for something a bit different again. It's a space we're looking to move into over the next year. In terms of getting in touch with us, we've launched our new website with all our designs on it. That's the first port of call for people. Otherwise, Instagram is always an easy way to want to get in touch with us if you can have a chat.
It's BaseCabin.com for the new website.
It is.
It looks so nice. It’s in line with your business and your discerning eye and everything else. Your website looks perfect, well done on that. Websites are not an easy thing to come to at the endpoint. It's been so lovely chatting with you and thanks for making time because I know that you're busy. I see Base Cabin continuing to do so well into the future as well. Massive congrats, Ryan and Dave, on what you've built.
Cheers. Thanks, Fiona. I appreciate the chat.
Bye.
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It’s lovely to chat with Ryan. if you're not already following Base Cabin or you haven't checked out their stuff, go on over and do it at BaseCabin.com. You can find them on Instagram, @BaseCabin. It'll make you want to escape to the country to a cabin and enjoy this idyllic life where you don't have a house full of clutter and all the things. I'd love to know what you took away from this podcast. Of course, I have so many things that come from chatting with these small business owners and chatting with somebody like Ryan.
There are two things that I wanted to point out that stood out for me, one is the idea of letting go of some stuff and knowing what you can control and what you can't. Ryan talked about how, previously, he might have been awake at 3:00 AM worrying about things, “This isn't going to work. What if this goes wrong?” All the things. It's amazing to be aware of that but also then nurture the idea of letting go. It's something we all have to do.
I talk to business owners day in and day out and we can all get fixated on something or worry about something that may never happen or get anxious about something that is in the future that is out of our control. I love that idea that he talked about you've got to learn how to let go and practice that. It's a practice, it's like a muscle that you have to make stronger every day. Find different ways to let things go. I often use music as a distraction to let stuff go.
The other thing I've learned in the past if I am worrying about things is to write them down before I go to sleep so they're out of my head. In some way, even doing that, whether it's in a notes app or a pen and paper, can help with letting go of those things. Other times, I will say to myself out loud, “Let it go. It doesn't worry me.” I always use the idea that you've got 24 hours and you've only got a certain amount of energy, do you want to use it on that? I love that.
The other thing I love is Dave and Ryan met on Gumtree. That is a funny story. It goes to show that you never know where the next person that is going to help you with your business idea is going to come from, whether that is somebody you go into partnership with like Dave and Ryan, or whether it is maybe a parent at a school pick up that you talk to and you're like, “You're a graphic designer. I need a graphic designer in my business at the moment.” We have parents of our child's friends and one of them is in SEO.
You never know where you're going to meet people that are potentially people that you're going to work within your business. I love the idea that they met on Gumtree. Being open to meeting people and connecting with all sorts of people in your life. You never know where it's going to take you like Dave and Ryan, who are now co-founders of Base Cabin. You can find out a whole lot more about Base Cabin over at BaseCabin.com and on Instagram, @BaseCabin.
As Ryan said, if you are a master builder looking for a sea change, and you want to go down to Korumburra, get in touch with Ryan. My sister lived in Korumburra for a long time and it is a beautiful part of the world. That is it for this small business interview. Group coaching is now open for applications and you can do that over at MyDailyBusinessCoach.com/groupcoaching. Thank you so much, Ryan, for coming on and sharing your wisdom. Thank you so much for reading. Take care. I'll see you all next time. Bye.
