Episode 368: Shuh Lee
In this episode, Fiona chats with Shuh Lee, a creative artist. She talks about the importance of collaborations, and how she navigates maintaining her creative spark. Tune in!
Topics discussed in this episode:
Introduction
Shuh Lee's background and journey
Her passion for illustration, textiles, and ceramics
The significance of collaborations
Organic nature of partnerships
Insights into collaborating
The role of prior work in seizing opportunities
Conclusion
Get in touch with My Daily Business
Resources and Recommendations mentioned in this episode:
“It's not just a business but it's my happy place. When I go there, I pour and give good energy to my work. I always create things I like. I do that because I hope that my work gives the same energy to everyone that sees my work. I love seeing things that give me good energy so I want to give that feeling to people.”
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Welcome to episode 368 of the My Daily Business podcast. This episode is an interview with a creative, a small business owner, and somebody that I know many of you who are reading this will be familiar with. Before we get stuck into that, I wanted to acknowledge the traditional owners and custodians of the land on which I meet these wonderful people and record this podcast and that is the Wurrung and Wurundjeri people of the Kulin nation. I pay my respects to their elders, past and present, and acknowledge that sovereignty has never been ceded.
I also wanted to remind you that we are getting to the crunch point of 2023. If you are looking for a gift, whether it's an end-of-year gift, Hanukkah, or Christmas, “You survived 2023,” we do have a range of gifts that you can find for small business owners from those starting out with an idea through to those many years or even decades into their business. You can find all of that at MyDailyBusiness.com/shop and you can also find something for yourself there as well. Let's get into our small business interview.
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Our guest is the wonderful, humble, and super creative, Shuh Lee. Many of you will know her business, Shuh. I was first introduced to Shuh in person at The Finders Keepers Business Summit earlier in 2023 but I had been familiar with her work on Instagram and seeing her things around the place. It was such a delight to be able to invite Shuh onto the podcast to talk about her creative process and things like how she get these brand collaborations with these huge brands that so many textile and creative people might be thinking, “I would love to do that.” How do they come about?
Shuh has also collaborated with lots of other creative small business owners. We talk about what goes into that and how you pitch yourself and do your pitch yourself or is it a little bit more organic? We also talk about the process that Shuh goes through when she's looking at her creative work and how she maintains her own creative juices.
A lot of creative people are giving out so much all the time and sometimes it can be almost like a last thought of, “How do I fill my own creative cup? What am I doing for my own creativity?” That goes across the board for pretty much any creative small business owner. Sometimes we can be so much in our own business and putting out things for other people, responding creatively in different ways, and then it's like, “What about me? How do I fill my own creative cup back up?”
We talk about all of those things as well as what it's been like for Shuh to move from Malaysia to Australia and how she creates friendships and networks and connections here. Sometimes that can feel difficult for any business owner, let alone somebody who hasn't grown up here and doesn't have the connections and networks that you naturally have when you are working in the same city as when you grew up.
When I moved overseas, as much as I thought, “It won't be much of a change,” it was difficult sometimes to connect with people that had grown up there and think about, “Who do I want to connect with and how will I do that?” We talk about lots of things. I want to say a massive thank you to Shuh because she agreed to do this podcast in the hectic time of the year. She is doing a lot of production right now. I appreciate her taking the time out to chat. Here is my interview with the wonderful Shu Lee.
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Hi, Shuh. Welcome to the podcast. How are you?
I’m good, thank you. We had a short conversation before. I like this time of the year. I like the year-end because I've done all my creative work, I've developed all the ideas, I've done what I can, and now I can relax. It's all about promoting my work, selling, and that's it.
I love that. Lots of people will know who you are and I'm sure lots of people who reads this podcast are big fans but can you tell us a little bit about your creative journey? It started with the move from Kuala Lumpur to Melbourne for your fashion degree. What fueled that move and what has led to where you are now?
I don't know if this sounds crazy but when I was young, I've always wanted to further pursue my study, leave the country, and go abroad too. I feel like, “There's so much more to learn.” I'm curious about other countries and being in a different culture. There weren’t any degree courses for fashion so this is why I had to decide to move abroad to do my degree in fashion. I came across Melbourne and I've been here once and I liked it. It was not too far from my home.
Going overseas for studies can be a bit overwhelming and I wasn't sure but it was a good distance from my home so I felt like, “I can do this.” Doing uni, the courses were so different from what I was doing before. I've met different lecturers and it was serious. I was like, “This is serious. I have to pick up my game.” I have to take this seriously because I was an international student, the fees and everything. I can't afford to fail or defer. That was one of the things, like, “I have to pick up my game. I have to study hard and work hard.”
From doing that, I started to realize that I enjoy doing the course and I realized what I love doing. I love illustration, I love creating, and I learned the electives that were offered. That was one of the pivotal moments where I felt I enjoyed decorating textiles. I love jewelry making. Walking around the campuses, I got to see what other people were doing and I saw this amazing ceramic studio and I saw fine arts.
It’s all these little signs where I picked up all these things that I love and then I started doing it for my assignments. I still keep some of my projects from uni. Most of my friends can't remember where they put it. I still love and I still go back to the pieces that I work on. From there, I always wanted to keep that. I remember the feeling so I've always wanted to keep the feeling. That's what led me to doing what I'm doing today. That's the starting point.
I love that. Are you from a creative family? Is that where you were like, “I'm going to go overseas and study fashion.” Was that something that you were like, “Of course, that's what you're going to do. This is the type of family we have.” Was that different to what your parents or family had expected you to do?
I have been lucky. I did not come from a creative family. My dad is a screen printer. I've always been exposed to the colors and smells of paint. When I was young, I got to see what he did. Maybe that contributes a bit, creating and printing. It wasn't creative, it was very commercial, but still I get to see production and there was a little insight into making and creating.
I was lucky that my parents gave me the freedom to do whatever I want to do. I got the chance to pursue what I wanted to pursue. When I was in secondary school, I wanted to do arts but how can I do that? I joined competitions to get a scholarship to get into college. My parents can't do anything if I get it. I'm trying to lay my path so that I've already done it so they can't object to it because I've saved some money from them.
You've done a good deed. You're like, “I did it for free.”
I saved half the scholarship. I didn't win the first prize but I got the second prize and there was a partial scholarship and then my dad couldn't say anything so that's it.
There's a tip for anyone who's reading who’s in that situation.
Think ahead, like, “What can I do?” I entered for fun but I felt I had this ambitious feeling, like, “I will try to win. I will try my best.” I did so many trials. I started drawing or planning my poster design or something at home and I did a few trials. I remember going to my art teacher, “Is this okay?” I did a few trials and then I went to the actual competition where you paint and do on-the-spot for a few hours and then you submit your work.
It's live.
Yes, it was live, that's why I had to practice. I thought, “If I do my homework, maybe I will get a chance.” That was the thing.
That is cool. All of that has led you to the birth of Shuh, your label, business, and brand. That is this fascinating intersection between art and craft. How do you describe what your business is?
I would now describe my business as a small creative business. I work with prints, textile, and ceramics. It continues to evolve. As I continue my practice, maybe I will learn something new. I would say I work with different mediums. I would also say it's not just a business but it's my happy place. When I go there, I pour and give good energy to my work. I always create things I like and I do that because I hope that my work gives the same energy to everyone that sees my work. I love seeing things that give me a good energy so I want to give that feeling to people.
I love that. I feel like that's a big wake up call to anyone who's reading who's thinking, “My business is definitely not my happy place right now.”
I love going to work. I can be there all day long. If I didn't have to eat and sleep, I’d probably be there. Sometimes, doing a small business, you have to have some point of difference. It would take me a long time to figure it out. I'm putting it into words. Basically, I was just doing what I liked.
It’s such a beautiful thing to be able to do what you like and make money from it in order to live the rest of your life.
When you start it, you don't think about it, and you just do what you like. Eventually, you have to think about, “How can I make a living out of it?”
You do make a living out of this and it is what you do for work and everything else. Can you take us through your creative process? You do all sorts of different mediums, textiles, ceramics, and you work with different brands. How do you infuse everything with this personal Shuh touch?
I always go back to the old school way. I love to have an idea and I put it on a piece of paper but now I can do it on the tablet as well and that's quite good, it's quicker. Every time I have an idea, I will write it down, sketch it, and then I'll work on it. If I feel like, “This is something. I'm quite happy with it.” I'll start developing the idea into a print or putting some color on it. The personal touch is because I work on every piece, I've designed all my work, I put all this energy and thought into it. If I don't like something, I would not put it out or I will put it aside to develop. Everything I put out is something I love and I want to use. That's the personal touch.
I'm putting you on the spot here but something I like to ask people like you where you are giving so much of your creativity out into the world, how do you fill your creativity cup? How do you get inspired? A lot of people would get inspired by your stuff and see your pieces. Do you go to art galleries on a regular basis? Do you listen to music? How do you get creative if you're feeling a bit lacking?
Good question. I have to be honest that I do feel like a half glass or empty glass sometimes. You give so much to your work. I ask myself all the time as well, “How can I do that?” Taking some time out away from my creative work helps. I'll make sure to do some yoga, some stretching, or have some leisure time away from my work. Going to see something creative in a gallery or sometimes meeting friends and having conversations and not talking about work. Sometimes it comes back to work but I feel like, “I'm seeing another perspective.” All these little things give me a bit of energy back. Does that make sense?
It totally makes sense. Sometimes stepping away from things, regardless of what business you're in, can be amazing for our mental health but also for creativity.
My way is not so much of looking for creative things but it naturally comes to me. I'll pick up things without thinking about it. It helps from taking a walk to going out. Having a bit of leisure time pushes me back to do what I do.
Collaboration is a part of your business. When I met you, which was at Finders Keepers, you were talking about creativity and collaboration. You've got these collaborators and you've worked with people, international, local, etc. What role does collaboration play in your creative process? How do you think that these partnerships have helped the business evolve?
When I first started collaborating, I never thought about it further besides creating friendship in the creative field. When I like or see someone that does something that's wonderful, I always wonder, “I wonder if we can work together.” I always think that two minds are better than one. That's how I feel my collaboration energy.
It's more like I want to learn from people and I love to see what they do. I will always wonder, “What happens if I work with their limitation or they work with my limitation and what it creates?” I'm always curious about those results and that's why I've always done collaboration. It also makes things more interesting. Imagine working by myself in my bubble. With my collaboration, I feel that I get to meet different people in the creative field and I find that makes my life more interesting.
That's such a good example. I love the idea of starting with friendship first. I work with lots of different business owners, and we'll talk about different collaborations or partnerships, and I’m like, “Do you love that person?” Are you proud to say, “I'm in a collaboration with them.” It’s not like I love them in some strange and stalkerish way. Often, with collaboration, it should be like a long-term relationship that you're building and not like, “Let's do this one thing,” both make heaps of money, and then leave.
Never talk again. It's nice to say hi from time to time. It doesn't have to be a long-term friendship but it's nice to know that someone is out there if you need anything and you can ask something. It doesn't have to always be work but once you work together, if you need help on something or you'd have a question, you can ask. I feel like that's more than collaboration, working together, and producing something. I see it as long-term rather than short-term like to produce, sell, and that's it.
I'm going to press on this a little bit further, your highlights. You've made souvenirs for the MoMA Museum. You've collaborated with brands like Gorman, which, for anyone outside of Australia, is a large, well-recognized, and respected clothing fashion brand. Can you share some insights into these experiences? I feel like a lot of people reading this may be in a similar space to you or wanting to collaborate with these bigger brands and they have no idea how that even comes about, what the process looks like, how long do those things take. How do you choose which brands to say yes to and which to turn down?
How did it come about? I have to say that I have been fortunate. Some of the collaboration, it's usually true people. I remember I was speaking to a friend and someone said, “She works there.” I introduced myself and I said, “I'm interested in working with you. This is my work.” Introduce yourself. It’s giving that interest of putting myself out there.
Sometimes if I have to, I would do it if it's something that I want. There's nothing to lose. There's nothing wrong with introducing yourself and telling someone that you're interested in something. If it doesn't happen, that's fine. I thought, “I'll just put it out there.” That's how it started. Otherwise, how do you do it? You can email but I thought, “Verbal is even better because you can meet me, you can see my work, you can talk to me, and we can share some conversation.” You can know by then if they’re interested or not. In-person is always important.
Also, email is good too. MoMA Museum was through a friend that has a shop and they had something and I was one of the stockists and then it’s like, “We'll have Shuh as well.” It was being lucky and being at the place at the right time. I also have to say that it's also part of all the time and work I've put in the past. If I didn't start doing my work gradually and build up my work gradually, I wouldn't be able to have anything to show and tell.
Doing the work before that is more important than thinking about, “I'm going to work with collaboration.” For me, I wasn't even thinking about that when I first started my practice. I was thinking, “I love doing what I'm doing. I'm going to keep developing.” I enjoyed it, worked every day, and did something every day. That's how I built up that work. From there, when you meet someone, you have an opportunity and you can show a body of work. You might have the opportunity to work with someone, that's how I feel.
That's such a good point. I don't know if you've seen that meme and it's like, “I charged this much for ten minutes because it took me twenty years to be able to do something in ten minutes for you.” It's that same philosophy, “Do the work and then think about all of these big opportunities.”
Things might come up. I didn't think about it but someone mentioned it and I was like, “That's right.” If I didn't do all the work, I don't think I've got anything to show.
With the process of those, and you don't have to necessarily say which brand or anything but have there been any insights that you've learned from these brand collaborations that you would advise to somebody else? Are there things like getting a contract in place or setting the boundaries? Is there anything that, if someone's reading who's about to go into a brand collaboration, they should be aware of as an artist?
Have things written down if there's any contracts. Put everything in email so you can reference something. If you have anything, you can reference things that were written down or at least you can track it. My advice is don't get so overwhelmed with the collaborations. You have to go back to, “What should I do? This collaboration, what do I want to do with it?”
Instead of the excitement and hype, I want to come back to, “What work am I going to produce?” I want this collaboration to be good. I would advise to myself, “Let me take a step back and then focus on the creative and production.” I don't want to be overwhelmed with this idea of, “I'm working with this brand.” The most important thing is the work.
It's important to remember that, especially if it is this big brand opportunity.
It can get overwhelming. It's like, “I'm working with this brand.” I've got to step back because I have to be like, “I can't be overwhelmed with this but this is what I want to do. This is my idea. This is how I'm going to present my idea.” You then can work out if they like it and so on. You also have to support your own ideas.
With your business, you work with lots of different materials or mediums. Even on your website, you've got coasters, t-shirts, bags, and all these different things that people can buy with your beautiful prints on them. How do you manage your workflow? How do you manage, “I'm working with this brand on a brand collaboration but then I have this new collection for myself. I then have the standard things that we usually sell.” How do you manage all of this? Do you have a lot of people that work in the business with you? Do you have good systems behind the scenes? How do you stay on top of it all?
I'm laughing because it's a one-man show.
It’s often the case, don't you feel like? I remember somebody emailing me a few years ago so it was My Daily Business Coach and they're like, “I'm not sure if this will even reach Fiona.” I'm thinking, “It has. I'm the person reading.” I hear you. If it's a one-person show, how do you manage it all even more?
I must admit that sometimes it is crazy. It can be crazy but I put it all in writing and I put it all in the calendar, look at it, and plan what's humanly possible. I will then write down my plan on what to do and set up all the deadlines and try to put the deadlines maybe a few days ahead so that I don't have the deadline on that day. You can have the deadline two days ahead so you're a bit ahead. It’s all these things like putting down tasks that I need to do each day to achieve or fulfill any deadlines or what I need to do. It’s being organized. Even though I don't think I'm super at it, I try to be organized.
Let’s say the things that are not the things that you make yourself like outside of the ceramics or some of the artwork, with the actual production, do you have anyone that helps you with that like with the socks or the hot water bottle and things like that? Do you work with an agency or an agent?
Yes, I definitely have help outside the things I don't make. Besides ceramics and my prints, I delegate production to different suppliers, different makers, and machinists here and there to help me create the whole range. Are you asking how it happened? How do I delegate it?
Yeah. How did you even find people? Was that through your fashion degree that you were like, “I've come into this,” or is it just going online and having Google? How have you found all of these people to help you?
A bit of both. Sometimes you can't find everything by searching online. Like a local machinist or something, this is word-of-mouth. You go to us, your friends, or someone that does textile, “Do you know anyone?” I also research online if I want to produce socks or something. It depends on where you want it to be made. All these things are all different. My suppliers are all over the place. There are some people I work with constantly because I produce small batches of textile work. These are different suppliers that help me create this whole range every year.
Because you're working on so many different things, what does your actual studio look like, your workspace? Are there things in there that, over the years, you've realized, “This is an essential thing to have in my studio.” If somebody is reading who's maybe earlier on in their career than you and they would be like, “That's a good thing.” When I had a studio at my other house, we had it out the back.
Even having glass doors and a lot of light coming in, I was like, “I should set my desk up this way.” It’s these different things. I don't know if there's stuff that you've learned over time that you would absolutely not be able to have a studio without now. Anything that you're like, “I'm so glad.” For example, I have an L-shaped corner desk and it took me years before I realized an L-shaped corner desk would be a much better use of my space.
For years, I had this fancy and nice desk in the middle of the room but it was stupid and hard to get around versus now that I have an L-shape. I have almost the rest of the room to use with other things. Is there anything that you're like, “For anyone reading who's super creative or a maker, this is something that I've learned over the years that has helped my process.”
When you come to my studio, there's always a radio. I need a little radio. I must have a background. I like to listen to relaxing and calm music. I always have a radio. In any studio that I've been to, I've always made it my own. It's like a home, I want to make it comfortable. It doesn't have to be super pretty but it's got to be functional and it has to function well across with what I do. It has to feel comfortable and has a nice energy and that's it. Sometimes it's hard to find studios with windows or all your dream list or big windows and high ceilings. Sometimes it's hard to fulfill all this dream. I find that if I make it comfortable and warm, I feel like, “I can be anywhere.”
I like that idea of being anywhere. I know it's a stereotype but it's there because there's a little bit of truth to it. My husband studied fine arts painting at VCA. I've got lots of friends who studied fine arts or the art world and inevitably went into something else because they were either told by other people, “You're never going to go anywhere with art. You're not going to make a living out of art or craft. You have to go and become something that you can get an office job from.”
What would you say to someone who's reading and maybe they're already in another career but their dream is to have worked with art or a maker or craft? What would you say to them about giving it a go? There are millions of people that want to be an artist but not everyone is going to create a business that works from it. That goes for any industry. What would you say to someone who's reading who needs a little bit of encouragement right now?
Before I go to the advice, I worked full-time. It took me a long time to come to this place where I can work on my work full-time. I would think of my past. Years ago, how did I feel? If you have an interest in something, give it a little try. Tap your feet in it. It could be for leisure or hobby but it's worth it. Don't let go of your passion. Even though it doesn't become a business, it’s lovely to do something for yourself. Eventually, if you decide to work on it or take it a bit further, you can. Even though you're working full-time, try not to give up on it and make a little time for yourself to indulge in your passion.
It's important regardless of what it is. I used to do a lot of creative writing and I've let it slide massively. My husband was like, “Why don't you get back into that?” I was like, “Yes.” Sometimes we can get busy with, “That's not to do with work or that's not to do with family life. Where's the productivity in that?” No, do it for the sake of doing it.
We live in a busy time. We have so many things going on. We have to find the time. The challenge is to find the time to go back and pursue something that you love. That's also valuable.
Yes, completely valuable. Speaking of value, have you encountered any mentors or have you had any books or films that completely helped you in terms of creating this business? Even when you said before that you worked in another job and then you weren't able to do this full-time until years into it, was there anything that motivated you during that time where you were like, “That is huge for me,” or, “That book changed my life and it helped me with my business.” Are there people, products, or things that would have helped you with building your business as it is now?
I don't have a mentor and I would love to but maybe one day I'll find one. I'm always constantly looking and listening to good advice, even if it's a TV show or someone I heard on a podcast. I love to listen to good advice or something that I can relate to, my, “This is good for me. I want to write it down.” I have quotes everywhere in my journal and diary and I keep them and sometimes I refer to them. It's like self-mentoring. I don't have so much time to read but, once in a while, I do pick up a good book. I can't remember the books in the past but for 2023, I enjoyed reading one of the books by Oprah Winfrey called What I Know For Sure.
I have that same book.
I love that book. I love listening to people's experiences. I've always loved a book so I picked it up from the library and I enjoyed it. I didn't want to put it down and I didn't want to return it. It's one of the books that was on my mind the whole year and it kept me going.
That’s such a good one. Yes, I have that same book and I like it too. In terms of the actual work and input, are there platforms, tech tools, or apps that you use that you'd recommend for anyone in business?
I'm never good with numbers. The first thing is Cloud Counting. I'm glad I learned how to use it. I need it for my business to keep everything on track and I don't have to worry on the numbers side. All the invoices and everything are all there. I feel much better that I can have the brain and energy to do what I love.
I would be lost without Xero, which is the one that I use.
I use Xero as well. A friend recommended me to go on this and learn it. At first, it's terrifying but then when I got to know how to use it, I was like, “Oh my gosh. Yes.”
Any others that you'd recommend or even social media, the ones that you like over other social media?
I don't use my phone a lot. Yes, I do social media but that's all. My energy, I put it straight to my work. Also, I'm a lo-fi person. I don't go to tech so much. My most advanced is Cloud Counting and that's all I have.
That's a good thing. I'm sure there are lots of people reading going, “I would love to be like that instead of having 22 subscriptions to something.” What are you most proud of from the business so far?
It’s not so much achievement-wise but I'm proud that I took the time to work. I can look back and I can look at all the prints and things I've done. I'm proud that I took the step out and I got out of my comfort zone and out of my work life to meet people in the creative field. I'm proud of being able to have that connection with people that do what I like. I'm proud to be working full-time in what I love. It’s just a few simple things. I can't think of anything else.
These are great. As someone who isn't from Melbourne originally, how have you been able to cultivate? When you said before, “I can get my creativity by having conversations with friends or asking other people in the industry for any contacts in terms of manufacturers or seamstress.” How did you make friends? It's hard enough for anyone, let alone for somebody who didn't grow up here or doesn't have those networks that you have when you live in the same place that you grew up.
I've lived overseas before and it is difficult sometimes to make friends, let alone business people. Was it mainly people from the degree that you did at RMIT? How have you cultivated those friendships? What advice would you give to someone who's reading who might be like, “I'd love to have more people in my industry that I'm friends with.” How have you made those friends?
It's also from my Malaysian culture. I feel like we're a very friendly bunch of people. In my culture, if you know one person, you'll know ten other people. It's a friend of a friend of a friend. Every time you have a conversation, it's like, “Do you know this friend? This is my friend. That's the other friend. That's your cousin.” We're all connected. When I'm here, I still have that in me so I'll just go and talk to the person. There’s nothing to lose. If they don't want to talk to me, that's fine.
What is next for you and where can people connect with you? If people are reading and thinking, “I want to check out her stuff or collaborate or become friends,” where is the best place for them to connect and what is happening for Shuh at the moment?
I'm having a market in Melbourne called The Big Design Market. From the 1st to 3rd of December 2023, I will be there. I'm always there at the store so you can come and say hi to me and have a little chat. Otherwise, you can always go up to my website and send me a message from there. My website is www.ShuhLee.com.
Thank you so much for taking time out. I know you're in busy production mode and it is towards the end of 2023 when everyone is hectic. I appreciate you taking the time out, Shuh.
Thank you for having me. It's nice to carve out time. I was excited to be on your podcast. I love listening to your podcast.
Thank you so much and best of luck with everything.
Thank you.
Bye.
Bye.
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How lovely is Shuh? She’s humble and such a sweet and lovely person. I know that if you are in that creator, maker, or artist space, I'm sure you got a lot out of that as I'm sure everybody did. I would love to know what you took away from that. Of course, you can send me a DM at @MyDailyBusiness_ or an email, Hello@MyDailyBusiness.com.
I'm going to point out two things that stood out to me as I always do. The first, and I mentioned it in the chat with Shuh as well, is when Shuh talked about her business as, “My happy place.” I know that this podcast is coming out right in the heat of a hectic busy period for a lot of people or even if you're not necessarily super busy, you're like, “Can we get to the end of the year already?”
Sometimes, especially if you've been in the business for some time, you get complacent in a way and we can end up almost like creating another job for ourselves even if we'd left an employed role and we can create this thing and it's monotonous, you come in, and you do the same thing every day. I love that she talked about, “It's my happy place.” I want to pose that question to you as you're reading, how far or close is your business right now to being your happy place? Maybe right now there's situational pressure because of the time of year.
In general, if you were to look at the business, how often do you think of it like that as your happy place? That's a really important thing that she talks about because we put so much effort, time, passion, and emotion into our business. Often, we can sometimes do that ahead of other things in our life like health, family, etc. You really want to think about, “Is this making me happy? Do I enjoy what I'm doing? Have I been doing something for so long that maybe it's time to shift things or pivot or change in a way?” I love that she talked about it being her happy place.
The second thing that stood out, and it stood out a lot because I work with people on collaborations quite often, collaboration is a huge part of marketing and it's something that I suggest with people when they're looking at their marketing strategy to look at how collaborations fit into this. She talked about creating friendship in the creative field and how that is the first point of which she thinks about collaborators and people to partner with.
Much of the time, we can focus on vanity metrics, like, “How many followers do they have? What's this going to do for me?” It’s all these kinds of things. I get that you want to be strategic. Of course, with collaborations and partnerships, often, you're leveraging each other's existing community and opening up the doors for growth for both parties.
I love that she talked about the way that she comes at it and approaches collaborations by focusing on the friendship and thinking about, “I would love to become friends with that person. It's awesome. What could we potentially create together if we were pulled together and worked on something?” That's a lovely starting point when you're thinking about who you could potentially collaborate with.
I've often thought when I've collaborated with people or even with brands, “Would I be super proud to talk about this, firstly?” Also, with people, “Could I go out for dinner with this person and have a fun time?” If I feel like I couldn't or I feel like I wouldn't be able to be myself fully, it's a no. If it's a yes, if it's the other way around. When she talked about that and even putting herself out there and saying, “There's nothing to lose,” and introducing herself and being like, “I love what you do. I'd love to work with you in some capacity.”
Shuh talks about how she might be a little shy or reserved in some cases but when it comes to this sort of stuff, why not? She said, “You've got nothing to lose.” Many times, I remember when I was writing for all sorts of publications like Nylon, Cool Hunting, Refinery29, and all these places, people would say to me, “How do you get to write for them? You're so lucky.” Yes, there's an element of luck but also there's an element of, “I put myself out there. I asked.”
Like Shuh, I created a body of work that was able then to be shared with people when I was pitching rather than, “This is my first time. Can you take a chance on me?” A lot of places, especially publications, won't do that. You've got to just put in the work and have something to show them. Shuh brought that up as well when she talked about brand collaborations and that she’d done the work first so that when the collaboration opportunity came up or she introduced herself to somebody, she had something to show them.
It's something that also came up in an interview that I did with Lauren Li from Sisällä a while ago. Lauren had said the same thing about when she got the column in the design files and started writing for them, she'd already been writing her blog for years. She had a huge volume of work to show as, “This is what I could do.” In both Shuh and Lauren's case, they did the work without wanting this bigger claim or wanting these big brand collaborations. They did the work first and then they had something to show to help win those collaborations and those partnerships.
There are lots to think about there. I want to say thank you so much to Shuh, she is knee-deep in production time. I know that this is a hectic time for everyone. If you want to connect with Shuh, you can find all the wonderful things that she's working on at ShuhLee.com. Also, her Instagram is @ShuhLee. The show notes for this episode. If you want to check out anything that we've talked about or the links to Shuh’s work, you can find those for this particular episode at mydailybusiness.com/podcast/368. As of episode 368, Thank you so much for reading. I'll see you next time. Bye.
