Episode 42: On Starting a Business in New York, Switching Careers in Your 30s and Going Back Home to NZ to Establish A New Career - an Interview with Paul Darragh of BEMODERN
Fiona catches up with one of her greatest friends - Paul Darragh of Bemodern. In this small business interview, Paul and Fiona discuss how Paul started his career, moving from New Zealand to Australia and eventually travelling to New York and work for a decade before deciding to establish a new career as a painter and artist. Lots of wonderful advice waiting for you in this interview especially if you’re also at a stage of switching careers and moving to another country to pursue your goals. Listen now!
Topics discussed in this episode:
Introduction [1:48]
Catching up [8:29]
When did Paul's career start?
On moving from New Zealand to Australia [17:13]
On getting a job in New York [20:31]
Starting a business - Manhattan Born [27:05]
Paul's projects [32:53]
On freelancing [39:51]
Moving back to New Zealand [44:04]
The challenges Paul needed to overcome [48:28]
Paul's upbringing [52:31]
Recommendations [59:44]
Is there one thing Paul would do differently now? [1:06:18]
Connect with Paul [1:08:47]
Conclusion [1:10:20]
Resources mentioned in this episode:
Episode transcript:
Looking back now, I think I definitely had an attitude which, you know, in part is just you get that just from living in New York and working on all the stuff and being around that energy all the time and then kind of coming back and you kind of realise no one cares, no one cares that you've done all that stuff. And who are you trying to impress and all that? All those sorts of things. And really just getting to a place of being content in your own skin and in your own mind. And so that was that was a large part of that.
And then at the same time, yeah, it gave me an opportunity to to really start the whole painting move without having to, you know, because swapping careers in your 30s is hard no matter what you do. But to be a painter where it's like notorious for not earning any money, it just seemed kind of like a practical thing to do as well.
Hello and welcome to Episode 42 of my daily business coach podcast. Today is an interview episode, and I'm really - I'm so excited to be bringing you this interview because it's with an amazing small business owner currently based in New Zealand. This interview is with one of my all time, best best best friends in the entire world. Paul Darragh, a.k.a. Bemodern. We recorded this interview a few months ago now before the second wave of Corona virus hit, at least hit in Melbourne. So just a heads up. There was a little bit of background noise and we have done our best. My editor and I have done our best to edit this out, but hopefully it's not too distracting and hopefully the content makes up for it now. Paul Darragh, besides being my best friend, is an artist who's a designer and he's a painter and you can check out some of his work on Instagram. He's just at @bemodern1, as in the numeral one. And of course we'll link to that in the show notes. I met him first and we became friends around 2004, 2005 when he applied for a role at the magazine company that I was working as an editor at. I was editor then of Fashion Journals Too and Precinct, which was a magazine that came out from David Jones, one of the big department stores here in Australia. And this was the very first time that I was involved with hiring anyone. We had advertised for a graphic designer, art director, and Paul applied for that role. And on his application (and this is way back in the day when we had paper applications for jobs), he had designed this little logo that was almost a silhouette of his head. And I just thought it was super cool and interesting and it really stood out from everyone else. And so we brought him in for an interview and I was just blown away. It was like instant friendship. He was just so warm, so creative, so inspiring, so funny. And we were just on the same wavelength and we spent a lot of time at work for both of us.
In fact, for most of us, in the fashion journal office, it was our first real job, you know, working in a career role. And so we worked hard. We really did. There were plenty of nights that we were there eating pizza, because I think it was like if you stayed after 9:30pm, you got free food. And obviously we were all on really low pay, really low salaries at that stage. And so, yeah, we were like, "Oh, dinner will be paid for. Cool." And so we worked hard. We would come into the office early. We would leave late, and often we would be there on weekends. And so when you're in that environment, you just naturally form a relationship. And so I found myself finding my first real best friend outside of my high school friends. It was actually at his birthday party in 2006 that I met the man who is now my husband. And in the three years that Paul and I worked together at first media, Paul was absolutely my go-to. He was my go-to for everything from hitting the clubs to talking about serious life matters. We would get pastries and sundaes and we would dance and we would drink and we just had an amazing time as one of the best times in my life. When I look back those kind of early years of my career and Paul was a huge part of that. He then upped and left me. He left me for New York. And he stayed there for the next decade. He worked in some incredible companies for amazing campaigns as a designer and art director. And he even started his own business, Manhattan Born, which boasted companies like MTV amongst their client list. And at one point, he did the graphics for Awesome Rihanna film clip. And I was and I am now blown away with his attitude towards his craft. Whether he is working on a giant billboard for Times Square or he was working on a friend's logo, he would dedicate himself to making the best possible work that he could.
And of course, I saw that firsthand while working alongside him at the magazine. And I've also witnessed it so many times since watching his career blossom as a friend and a cheerleader on the sidelines. It has been a hard thing to write this introduction - to write for someone you admire and respect so deeply. You know, Paul has been such a rock for me in so many parts of my life, but especially in all of my creative pursuits and in the running of my business. Even before I had any ideas for a business, when we were still in our early 20s, he was such an enthusiastic supporter of me reaching out to magazine editors to write for places like Cool Hunting or Refinery29 or Flaks in the UK or Empty in Australia or Monacle. He is one of my absolute favourite people to talk to.
He can go from answering existential questions and having these really serious DMs about culture and art and humanity through to, you know, talking about what's up with The Real Housewives and reciting Bette Midler films. Paul is incredibly determined and he's dedicated to creativity. And he's someone who I really believe that he's someone who even if he won millions of dollars and he never had to work again for financial reasons, he would always still be creating he would choose to create and make art and design. It's just who he is. He's always creating. He's always innovating.
In this interview, we discuss what it was like for a kid from the tiny town of Matamata in New Zealand to move to Melbourne. In his late teens and then to make this massive move on a one way ticket and spend a decade in New York, we also discussed some of the darker times in Paul's life whilst he was in New York and how he found a new sense of himself and of creativity. After choosing to live a more sober life, Paul now lives back in New Zealand, and he's recently switched careers from graphics and art direction through to becoming an established artist and painter. And we discuss. What was that like? You know, coming back to a country that you call home but you haven't lived in for most of your adult life. And also what it's like to change careers in your mid 30s and go into such a hugely competitive area like painting and art. Like I said before, if you want to check out his artwork, you can find that and he can connect with Paul over on Instagram at @bemodern1, like the numeral one.
So as I've said all of this, you know, I feel like I just can't get it across enough that Paul is just such an incredible soul. I have been lucky enough to know him for more than 15 years now, and he has been a constant source of inspiration and encouragement and support and ideas and just creativity throughout that time. He is my go to for a good old chat, and he's one of the nicest people that you'll ever, ever meet. So here it is, my interview with Paul Dhara, a.k.a. be modern artist, painter and designer.
All right, I'm so excited to be here with one of my best friends in the whole world and an amazing small business sign up, Paul Darragh, a.k.a. Bemodern. So welcome, Paul.
Hi. Thanks, Fiona.
What is this year about? It's crazy how like 2020 has just been craziness after craziness. So how are you feeling today? Has Covid affected your business and your life.
I'm feeling good.
During the actual lockdown here in New Zealand, we had a month really hardcore lockdown where we couldn't do anything, really, except the supermarkets. So the store that went into place, I stocked up on canvas and paintbrushes and all that. So that was a really good time for me just to knuckle down and create a bunch of hours. So that was really good. Before that, two weeks before I had an exhibition opening. And so that was kind of truncated due to the lockdown. And then in April, I was supposed to have an exhibition in Melbourne, which is now being postponed kind of indefinitely.
Sometime in 2021. So anything kind of international is definitely on hold because that had always been part of my M.O., was to be based in New Zealand and work in New Zealand, but still be doing stuff overseas. So that's good because it's forced me to explore domestically. So I've just booked another exhibition here in New Zealand for October.
Yeah, it said it had a bit of an impact, but it sounds black. And I know that this is quite in your personality. You're quite prepared as well. You know, stocking up on your stuff. Yeah. Yeah.
And not only that, I sort of pride myself on being pretty resilient and, you know, really rolling with the punches because there's only so long considering our complaining, you know, the situation that's happened. And because it's happened to basically every single person on the planet, there's no point in complaining because we're all in the same boat together. So I'm very much of the mindset, like, OK, well, this is the end. You know, it was being dealt. How can we move forward from here with what we have and the restrictions that we have?
Yeah, yeah. That is part of why I love it. You can feel it always positive and just get on with it. Kind of. But having said that, you know, I do know you really well. We are best friends and I know your business journey exceptionally well as well. But for people who don't know your business and they've had a little bit an intro just now, what is Babe modern and like. When did it start and why did you start it? And can you kind of walk us through kind of your career path? Right now we feel today, I guess, with your business.
Yeah, sure thing. So Bemodern, actually. That started when I was at uni. So I design school down in Wellington museums and that was born out of I would go to the public library and make these collages out of photocopying all life magazines from the 1960s and oh, 1960s encyclopaedias. The term P Modern was written in an old ad or something.
And so I cut it out and juxtapose it in a collage and it just kind of stuck. I really liked to have it as a name because it's sort of telling you to do something. And then this idea of modernity has always resonated with me because it has relevance, which I love the idea of being moderate. To me, it's it's not really contemporary. It's sort of timeless. So I think for those reasons, it just kind of stuck. So it started out almost as like, you know, like an artist. Monica, when I was doing a week pay stops and stuff like that in Wellington.
Yeah, it's just kind of stuck throughout the years. But at the same time, it's it's almost like Martin is an alter ego of Caldara in the way that, you know, musicians have a different name. And so I suppose it's a way that I can just connect from the artists need and and the real me, even though they are totally entwines. Anyway, following design school, I promptly moved to Melbourne and got a job as an art director and publishing, which is where we met, as you know. And did that for four years, I think. And that was great being a graphic designer in fashion magazines and advertising. And, you know, I learnt so much in that job. I was really so even fresh out of school and. Yeah. Along with yourself and our creative director, Richard DaSilva, I really think, you know, you guys were both massive teachers for me at that point. I just thought so much. And then from there, I moved to New York in two thousand seven and pretty instantly got a job at a motion graphics company. Just launching called favourite colour and motion graphics was something I never really had any experience with. So again, I just sort of fell into that and I learnt to turn on the job. And then not so long after that was the global financial crisis in 2008, which caused me to get laid off from that job. But at the same time, that pushed me into a freelance world. And so, yeah, basically, I've been a freelance artist and designer in one way or another since 2008. So that was a real serendipitous kind of thing, because I remember at the time being really upset and just thinking, oh, my God, you know, it's it's going to affect my visa situation in the States as you are when you're twenty five and you get laid off, never been laid off before in a foreign country and all that kind of stuff. But, you know, it didn't take long for me to get back on my feet.
And yeah, instantly kind of jump into the New York City Machine Graphics freelance scene, which is kind of a scene. I guess it's you don't run all these studios and you get to see and meet lots and lots of different freelancers.
And it's pretty was pretty exciting. And then from there, the guy who had employed me at that first job in New York and also hooked me up with the first freelance contacts guy by the name of Casey Steele. I mean, I had remained in contact and he was an executive producer and he was at different companies as well. So it always worked for him at various studios. We decided to start our own company together.
And so we did that in 2010, I believe. And that was called Manhattan Born.
So that was that ran as a design studio, immersion graphics studio and a little art gallery because we had a storefront space in the East Village of New York. And we did that for four years. We got a bunch of great clients, actually. We worked a lot with the Viacom networks.
So VH1, MTV, BET worked on many great projects during that time, did some big digital billboards for us before I worked on the roast of Donald Trump. And yeah, you know, we we had quite a bit of success with that.
But it sort of got to a point where I think for both of us individually, we weren't in great places and that relationship started to deteriorate a little bit. And so we decided to close that down, but just sort of felt like it would run its natural ups. We had a commercial lease on that storefront space, so once that was finished with, we decided to call it quits. And at that point, I went I went back freelancing again until I decided to move home to New Zealand in 2017, three years ago.
And then since I wanted to make the shift to a full time artist and a painter, and that was part of the reason I came home, because I couldn't really get sponsorship to stay in the US as a painter, because, you know, you need to be right for a company. Everything was just aligning. I just felt like New York wasn't as inspiring to me anymore. And Donald Trump, which just got into the White House and it just sort of seemed like a good time to to end my or put a hold on my New York story. So since then, I grew time and I've kind of been starting again, really, because I didn't really have any professional ties to New Zealand, because I left wing, not so young. And I've never had a professional job here. So, yeah, I've just been starting again as a painter all the while as well, keeping up some freelance projects from time to time with with our same clients in New York, which has been great to help me find this transition. I would say so, yeah. That's basically brings us up to now.
Wow. So, so many different things that are happening in what you've talked about, like going freelance. Going to start your own business with somebody going to partnership that ending. Starting again a few times. So like, let's go back a little bit to the early 2000s when you said it sort of finished in Wellington at the design school and you had made the move to Melbourne. And a lot of Kiwis do make the move to Melbourne or Sydney or Perth or one of the biggest cities in Australia. How did you do that? Like, did you know people that were in Melbourne? What kind of advice would you give to, say, someone who's listening to this amazing moment who might be thinking, you know what? I'm going across the ocean over to our neighbour.
Yeah. So I did know a couple of people. My sister and her former husband used to live over there and I'd visited and I really just of the sea. I thought it was a great place. And our largest city is Auckland, which comparatively to other places overseas is not really that big. And so for me, I just. That big city hustle, bustle vibe, and I just really loves Melbourne. I thought it was a really great place, seem very creative. And so I think that was the main drawcard.
As far as advice, I think it's a good move for for any Kiwi. And I think naturally we're quite curious as a as a nation and do because we're isolated at the bottom of the world.
We have a natural tendency to want to go off and explore and just make that mark for ourselves overseas. And more often than not, we do come home when we're in our late thirties or after people have children or things like that. But I think I think it's a really good, good step. There's a lot of opportunity and you just learn so much and meet so many people.
And I think with that, you become a little more well-rounded. I think you got your eyes open a lot more to me in saying that, too.
Back then, we really didn't have that access to the Internet as it is now. So if you're a kid from New Zealand, that was all you really knew unless you had travelled and experienced that stuff, whereas the results a little bit different. But you're still loving those those human and cultural experiences that you get from moving to a different country. But the one from New Zealand to Australia is a relatively easy one because same language, our cultures are similar enough that it's not totally frightening and it is one of the few kind of dual country partnerships in the world where you actually can do that. So why not take advantage of that?
Yeah, exactly. And it's good that you brought up, you know, that when you moved it was back in the day and we were working together at a magazine company. And it was all print. Everything was print then. Yeah, there was no social media. It basically used the Internet for email and some research purposes. But it wasn't it was nothing like it was today. And actually, one of the things you it was a very first person that I ever hired or like was part of the hiring process for. And I remember you had like your drawn kind of image of yourself on, like almost like a logo on your CV.
It really stood out. And I like these were paper surveys. Oh, my God, it's old. But from there you didn't know we work together. And like you said before, I was a teacher. And likewise, I feel exactly the same way about you and about Richard and about some other people that were there. Ben Willes is an incredible source of sales information advertising. How does it work? And so much other stuff that happened. But you then decided that you were going to up and leave me like hashtag sad face and get to New York. And I remember at the time I was living in Carlton, and you'd come over with pastry's on Sunday morning and we'd talk about what New York was gonna look like and we'd talk about how you to me with dollar and all of those things. But when you said before you landed in New York and you got a job at five or colour, what kind of pre work had you done? Had you been reaching out to companies whilst you were still in Australia before you got to New York? You've kind of researched different things that you could work in. How did it how did it get to the stage where you were like, yeah, I'm in New York and I've got a job like what happened prior to that? And again, thinking about people that might be listening, that got a small business. And obviously we're in kind of time. People aren't necessarily jumping, especially to New York right now, but things will open up again. And travel is one of the greatest things that a business owner can do. But what did you do in sort of the pre work or the prep to get a job in New York?
Well, while I was at that job in Melbourne, I had started getting freelance illustration work for US magazine like Accelerate Fast Company, Beautiful Decay, I think two of those that are defunct now.
I was going to say Beautiful Decay with so huge back in the day all around.
Yeah. And I, I often forget about that sort of part of my career, but for a little while I was kind of on a path to be more of like an editorial illustrator. So I had those contacts and I think perhaps having those contacts was something that actually made the move seem a little bit more tangible, because I would often have calls for them to receive a break and stuff.
And just again, like back then getting on the phone with someone like a creative doctor or editor in the US, that seemed like, wow, like crazy. So I think that sort of experience already being a part of my life, made it seem like it was something that I could actually achieve and would be, you know, in my wheelhouse.
However, none of those contacts kind of came to fruition. I did before I left, maybe maybe even six months before I had done my. Due diligence reaching out to lots switches to something. And I got a lot of great response to as a whole. I find or found the people in New York are really receptive to getting a Culpo e-mail and just reaching out. Yeah, it was encouraging. People were like, I love the word when you get here. She was an looks up, whatever. And again, none of those really came through either.
I mean, when I landed, I did basically the first few weeks dressed kind of hustles really, and reached out to every contact I had.
And then just started reaching out to a whole bunch of new ones, you know, take meetings. And I remember just going here, there and everywhere.
And those first few weeks, taking meetings with people, even if it wasn't going to be necessarily like a job that, you know, I could see something coming up in the future.
It was just sort of that idea of meeting people and getting into that into that group and just really starting that ball rolling. And then the favourite colour thing Eric came out of. I think that that was posted on a job forum on motion agrifood dot com, which is still a big website in the industry, and I applied for it. It's one of the few times I've ever applied for a job in a pretty traditional setting like that, like centre.
And I actually got the response. So, yeah, that was pretty crazy. So that's how that came about. So I did do all of that possible and reaching out to people, even though nothing directly came from it. I think if you think big picture, it's always helpful because it's making you feel more confident and you're just getting into that, too, that flow of the new place. Yeah, yeah.
And I think one of the things I love about you and we talk about this, we've talked about this regularly in our friendship, is that both of us have a tendency to just reach out to people. And at the time that you were reaching out and doing like beautiful Dekay and Fast Company. I was also doing the same thing with like I just want to, you know, I want to write for Refinery29. I'm gonna run up there and I'm going to write for this place and cool hunting. And I think even now, I still work with, you know, a lot of small business owners who may be reluctant to contact an editor for, say, to get the interiors project putting. And you just think you just got to do it. You know, the worst they can say is no. But most people objects and I'm going to be rude to you that just going to say no. Or they're just gonna ignore you. So it's a good reminder of that story in New York about just getting out there and reaching out to people, because most people are genuinely nice people and they'll get back to you in some way.
Yeah, absolutely. And I must say, I really didn't learn that skill from you. You just made it seem really easy. And like you say, you know, what's the worst it can happen. And still to this day, I do the same thing. Now I'm doing a lot with galleries or exhibition spaces and stuff like that. And I always think, you know, email 10, you'll hear from two. Yeah. And like I said earlier with, you know, having to be my name as a separation from Paul there or the person that pulled out the others, it's a way to have that kind of disconnection where you're not you're not being personally insulted if you don't get a response or someone is not into your work because it's like at the end of the day, it's just business.
So, you know, I mean, it's and I know that's like a really hard thing to get over, especially if you are a young person, because you do feel a little more insecure when it comes to your work and how you might be perceived in the industry if you don't have that experience. But just do it, you know, like. Yeah, who cares.
Yeah. Yeah. And even I say to some people, you know, just do it, send it off and cheque your laptop and walk away and get distracted by other things. So also during your time in New York, so you reached out to people and you got these jobs and you did really well. And then you said you went into business with Casey. Casey, is that right?
And you started a amazing business. So it's called Manhattan Born. And it was you had this awesome logo and you had, you know, apparel and cool accessories and you had this really great studio. What was it like? Because you're not from New York. You've said that you're from New Zealand. And New York has to be one of the most competitive places in the world to start a business, particularly kind of in that graphics and design sort of space like that. I would imagine that there are literally millions of studios. Not to mention as well, during a recession.
Another tick up there. So how did that actually happen? And like, how do you do, you know? Was it kind of reliant on Casey being he was American? Is that correct? Yes. Did he know how to even get into commercial property to rent somewhere? Like, how did that all happen? I lived in London for five years and I worked for other people. I worked for myself for some of it. But I was basically, you know, doing that all through my Australian business that I'd had before I left. I would imagine. How do you even know where to start when you're not from that place like. Completely different tax system. Completely different, you know, L.L.C. system like how did that stop?
Right. So first of all, I think it was really born out of us, both being Fremont's. And like I said, he was an executive producer and Casey was awesome. Probably, I'll say 10 years older, maybe more. Maybe less. But he'd had he had quite a lot more experience. He'd been working on L.A. for a long time doing. Yeah. In motion graphics companies and doing graphics on movies and stuff.
I always felt and I think because I was a lot younger, I always kind of felt like he was a bit more like the dad anyway. And because he was a U.S. citizen, he did take care of more of the business side of stuff like setting up the LLC. So technically, like I was an employee of Manhattan Born, which is under his name, and that was also for so that we could sponsor me through the company. So that was how I was also able to work legally in the U.S. But it was really pointed out of us both just being sort of in a way with, you know, freelancing in these studios and just be like, why don't we just doing this ourselves. Also, we were both outsiders in a way, because, like I said, he was from L.A. and moved out to New York to set up favourite colour. He was headhunted to do that job and that I was one of the first people employed. So, Alan, your journey pretty much started at the same time. And we called it Manhattan born for a couple of reasons, because our idea was born in Manhattan. Not that we were born there, but our idea to do this company together. And for anyone that's had a company, it is kind of do in a way give birth to it and you raise it and you have to feed it and make it grow like a child, you know, to me. Obviously not as you get more sleep sometimes sometimes deeping you'll like to the with the baby.
Yeah. Yeah, that's true. And then also the other thing, just a seidner about the name and the logo actually came from the manhole covers all over Manhattan. And if you can picture in a circle the words Manhattan and then from the other end B R which stands for Borough of Manhattan at the end of the hour, connects at the end at the end of Manhattan. So that look, they re Manhattan born in the circle. So that was kind of the genesis of the name and logo. And then, yeah, as far as the things like commercial real estate and reaching out to clients and getting to do all the sort of fancy stuff, we just really learnt about the seat of our pants. And I remember we would often just like being like, can you believe we're even doing this? Like, can you believe people are trusting us with, you know, their brands and to do, you know, 16 story billboard in Times Square? We often just couldn't believe how our situation, which I think like that's sort of what heartedness and tenacity a little bit anyway. And every day of day it was a blessing because we didn't take ourselves too seriously. We didn't get too caught up in what was actually going on. We just did it.
And I think also they say that quite a comment. He said it. Necessity is the mother of all invention. I think the fact that it was the downturn, the global financial crisis, you both were out of work. It was like this needs to work. I feel like. And so you probably weren't caught up in this much. It's like, oh, my gosh, we've got MTV. It was like, great, look at MTV. But that is also great because we've got a sentiment money coming in and we can support ourselves.
Right. Right. And it was really that thing of you just take little steps. And this is the same for, I guess, any business owner that doesn't have, you know, a huge amount of background funding or whatever. You just take little steps. And then after a couple of years, you look back and you're like, wow, you know, I'm at this new height. But when you're when you're in it, you're not really thinking about it. You're just doing the daily grind and making sure that, you know, you're getting those jobs. You're saying those invoices, you're getting the production done.
Yeah. And you did. Having said all of that, it did work for some massive names with some massive names. So I remember when you were like, I'm helping with, like a Rihanna film clip. And I was like, are you serious? Like, amazing. And it was just sort of another job for you. And like you said before, you know, you had to work with everyone's favourite person. And I'm totally joking. He is the worst person in the world, which is Donald Trump. And he did have huge things in Times Square. So what was that like to work with some of these kind of celebrities or massive names? And how has that impacted your future career as well? So, like, what were the kind of ones that you let the mind still? What was it like for. From Matamata, which is, what, population of 7000 people to be in Times Square. Looking at it like a massive billboard that you've created. Like, what was that like? And can you talk us through some of those projects?
Yeah. So they were a little moments of reflections where I would be standing beneath something really massive like that. And just thinking, wow, I feel like I'm living my dream. Because for me, the idea of being a designer in New York had been my literal dream since I had been a child. Yeah, there definitely were those conscious moments. But you just let yourself enjoy that because it's like, well, you got here. Enjoy the moment and then, you know, move on. What's the next thing? The Trump one was definitely pretty crazy. And then now, looking back, it's even more surreal. So that was the opening title sequence. And this was one of our very, very first shots, too. By the way, for Comedy Central's roast of Donald Trump. And so it was the opening sequence, which essentially was a parody of the Prodigy music video. Smacked my best job. I don't know if you remember that, but it was this journey of this woman shot point of view over one night. And so our concept was a journey into the day of life of Donald Trump shot point of view. So when we're actually producing this thing, we had all access to Trump Tower. You know, we're all up and down there. We had because he owned the Miss America franchise. Miss America a part of it. We got to meet a buck. We were downstairs in the basement where they shot The Apprentice and concurrently. Comedy Central was doing their entire commercial shoot. This thing done in The Apprentice stage with Donald Trump. So we had we needed him for a couple of the gags at the end when the camera sort of like looks in the reflection limousine and the reflection it sent back. That was like the big reveal at the end. So we had access to him for it. It was like a minute or something. Like we had allocated like, OK, like 60 seconds or whatever. Just to get that shot. And, you know, I was completely intimidated and I never directed anything like action before. So all day I had a crew of 15, 20 people lighting cameramen, you know, standing actors, all these people. So I was like I actually felt really out of. And then. Yeah. When we had to shoot them, I just remember him looking at me. He looked at me just like I was the scum of the earth, like I was just nothing. I'll never forget that because he is really tall and he has this very imposing presence. And not to mention, you know, it was all into lighting and there was a million people buzzing around him and apartments. So which I was very intimidated. And then also in that shoot, we had to go on a helicopter or around Manhattan getting like seven shots. So it was just a really huge, crazy day. I'll never forget. And but it was very, very special, like between the client from the production company and the clients from Comedy Central. We just really felt like stressed. Yeah, it was a good experience. But after doing that, I was kind of like, I don't really know if I like doing this sort of like live action thing, dealing with celebrities. It's it's a lot. So, yeah, I suppose that was kind of like one take away. So from then on it was more kind of about just graphics and not having not having to deal with these big egos and stuff. Much Rihanna job that was not through my head when I was through a studio. Click, click x before I started the company and that she was had been shot by the director out in L.A. and. And then our team in New York were doing all the graphics for, you know, the backgrounds. So that was that was more just sitting in my office. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. I mean, it would have still been like when I watch that video clip now and I can view and I'm like, oh, you know, it's interesting to be like, wow, you know, you're sitting in the office. But it was still like this huge video clip. An amazing, huge celebrity.
Yeah, absolutely. And I remember at the time, too, I was on a full time gig with the studio. It's spectacular. And I was approached to do the Rihanna video because they thought my aesthetic would suit what the director had wanted for that look, because it was bright and like crazy reference and stuff. And so I was moonlighting for that job and I was like, yeah, absolutely. Just because who wouldn't want to work on that? It was so much fun. So if even that was up two to three. Four in the morning working on that. It was definitely worth it. And still to this day, you know, that job still on my website and I really love it.
Yeah. And it's funny, though, that you said, you know, with the issue with Donald Trump or other celebrities, I think sometimes because you and I had worked in fashion and then I've continued to work in that and interview people in that and be it campaigns.
And sometimes it can same from the outset, like, oh, it's so glamorous and it's not it's just so much waiting around and so much has the coffee. Otterbein. I like model happy or is the celebrity. Okay. Right now. And it's just people can see the glamorous side of it. And while it does help your career and you know there's a good kind of things to namedrop, sometimes it is a lot of hard work and a lot of just tedious work as well.
Right. Absolutely. Yeah. And with anything, you know, my action, as you know as well, from working on furnish shoots, it's always that you versus the clock because time is money. So a model has to be out by the stage. Otherwise, you know, you get a cha extra charge and some suffer. Yeah.
And you've got everybody's opinions as well. So I'd be like the producer kind of on the shoot. And you'd have this time sheet and specs and everything that you need to get into this image for social media and this image from back and riot crazy amount to fly some model in from New York. And you've got the agent sitting there being like, you can't stand that. You can't have families. And yet it can seem fun. And. And looking back, do you remember the fun part? But I guess it's kind of like chopper like you go back to do it again. But your e-mail, you're like, God, this is hard.
From that you sort of said, you know, like you decided to focus more on the graphics and less on the kind of celebrity live action sort of world. But then you move more and more into art and just creating art more as your business. And I know when I visited you in New York, I visited you a couple of times while you were living there. You were painting a lot and you always done things you always created. But you seem to have shifted a lot more into doing that as a career and as a business rather than this is just, you know, a creative outlet that I had set. Can you talk us through how you decided to move more from. I'm working in studios, so I'm freelancing, too. I'm really going to give this a shot. Like, I'm going to contact galleries. I'm going to get exhibitions. How did that kind of come about?
Yes. I had always had that level of painting. But, yeah, I was one of those people that was like, I don't know if I could make a career living out of this, yadda, yadda, yadda. Pretty common story. So then actually what happened in 2015 sort of that whole year for me was not great. And I had like I was drinking a lot and things were just, you know, getting to a bad place. And they kind of came to a head almost from the end of the year in October. And I felt Turkey gave up drinking, which had kind of been a bit of a demon most of my adult lives. I was still highly functioning, but I always kind of knew, like, you know, naughty, naughty, you're going to have to deal with this at some point. And I finally did. And for anyone who's been through that journey before, you know, you go through a lot of just sort of like who am I to grow through? And, you know, for me, it was really like what's important in my life. And what do I do? So with that came this idea of, yeah, I'm sick of kind of contributing to somebody else's dream, which was during the whole graphics thing. And even though I was working for a great company, some awesome brands and great projects, at the end of the day, no one's looking at it being like, oh, that's cold. There is. You know what I mean? And also, you're so restricted because, you know, things have to be on brand, you know, to be these colours and whatever. So with that sobriety and so much clarity and I think a big shift in confidence, too. So I was able to realise, you know what, I want to I want to make this I want to be a painter. And then from there as well, along more that clarity came that shift of I should go home, I should find food like I need to go back to my roots, you know what I mean? So that was really how that came about. And living on a visa, you always have to sort of plan about a year out to make your next move because it takes about that long to to get a new one. So into 2015, being aware that my visa would expire June 2017, I made that decision. I kept on working freelance. I actually had a really great job at the studio with Cyclo in Brooklyn and working on great projects. So I was working hard on that. And then and nights and weekends I was painting and painting almost works. As a message kind of catharsis, too, for dealing with this whole sobriety and all that change. Yeah. So everything just kind of aligned. I suppose the painting helped me deal with that kind of rehabilitation and get that clarity to realise you can move home. Like, you don't have to be this person anymore. I always think of it as my Dorothy. Wizard of Oz moment where, yeah, I could kind of click my heels three times and realise home is where the heart is.
So you did move home. And so in 2017, I was super excited because even though it's still another country, sometimes I think New Zealand's like the state of Australia. And I'm going to like I have all these haters from New Zealand. We are not. But I was really happy that we’re close and same similar time zone.
All of that stuff. I was delighted because I don't have time from London to here and I was really excited. So you moved back after 10 years in New York. Can you talk us through that? Because I know that when I moved back from London, we moved back home and there was just this whole sort of like, oh, OK. Like, wow. I thought everything had just stayed still for the last four and a half years. And then and it hadn't. And I found it kind of hard. I think it took a little while to kind of settle back in Melbourne and I moved back into Melbourne City. So it's one city to another city. But you've moved from New York Hustle bustle into Matamata, which is a very small rural town in New Zealand. Your parents have a farm and you built your actual own house. So you built this incredible bar, which is just beautiful. What was that like going from New York? Straight even. It wasn't like you had to stop somewhere to kind of acclimatise yourself. It was like going from one of the most densely populated areas. Yeah. Seeing the world cities in the world to a rural farm.
Yeah. So kind of after I made the decision to retire and I was talking to my parents and they had brought up this track that they were already building this farm on, we call called the barn. But it's like, well now it's sort of an apartment and workspace and storage facility thing. But, you know, it's shaped like a kind of colonial American barn. And they were already building that just so there's more storage space, extra garage, an extra place for guests to sit or whatever. And upon hearing that, I was like, maybe I could live there and kind of. Yeah. So my parents little idea for more more room, but it was more in part to do. I thought that I would have more of a culture shock written from New York to Auckland or Wellington just because they're such small cities and going from New York to rural farm town and being in the country, you just can't carry it. So I wouldn't always I felt like if I'd gone to open, I would have always been like, this is, you know, certainly no offence to Auckland, but it just it sounds smaller, you know, you just can't compare it. Whereas moving to Medidata, I'm just like, yeah, I can't compare. Like, I know I'm going to the country. I know it's going to be quiet. I know there's nothing to do or that kind of stuff. And I think I also knew because I still felt like I had a lot of kind of healing and kind of finding myself. You know, it was a real transitional time. So I thought it would be better to really get back to the place where it all started because it's literally like I grew up as small and. Yeah. Connect with family again. Connect with like a segment of my roots and just figure out who I am and what this next journey is about and just kind of have a bit of a safety net for the first time in my adult life to us not having to feel like, you know, a sink or swim, that thing of just being like, oh, I want to be somebody to be close to my parents for a little while. And a partner or anything like that. And it really worked. And it was a huge transition. So, like, I definitely had to come down in many ways. Like looking back now, I think I definitely had an attitude which, you know, in part is just you get that just from living it and working on all the stuff and being around that energy all the time and then kind of coming back and you kind of realise, like no one cares, no cares that you've done all that stuff. And who are you trying to impress and all that? All those sorts of things. And really just getting to a place of being content in your own skin and in your own mind.
And yeah. So that was that was a large part of that.
And then at the same time, yeah, it gave me an opportunity to to really start the whole painting move without.
Having to, you know, because swapping careers, you know, in your 30s is hard. No matter what you do, but to be a painter where it's like notorious for not earning any money, it just seemed kind of like a practical thing to do as well.
Yeah. And on that note, see, you have in the last few years, you've totally shifted to full time artist, a painter. And you've had your art exhibited in Melbourne, in Miami, in New York, in New Zealand. You've alluded to some of them. But what kind of mindset challenges have you had to overcome? Like happy. Do you still have thoughts around. Oh, my God. Like how to make money. Like even though you are living in New Zealand and and you've since moved from the farm and you leave the apartment now somewhere else in New Zealand.
But did you think about. Oh, you know what? Maybe I'll just keep doing design work. I can wait. Maybe I'll do it when I'm retired. Or do those kind of things come through your mind at all or. What were the kind of obstacles that you've had to overcome from a mindset perspective to be?
So you really have to tune out a lot of the noise because you have so much self-doubt when you're in that position of am I even good? Like, will this even work? You know, all those all those types of things. And I feel like as well, the art scene is pretty competitive and sort of hard to get into anywhere. I would think. And then New Zealand, because it's a lot smaller and everybody knows everybody. And you're all fighting for the same resources and things like that. I think that people aren't necessarily as obliged to give you a massive helping hands. And, you know, no disrespect to anybody else. It's like I said, you're all fighting for the same, you know, a small part of the pie or whatever. And also, I know I really am a new guy. I had to kind of think of myself as I'm just going to art school in a way. So, I mean, I'm a fast learner and yeah, I've always done the hustle pretty well. So I've fast tracked things as far as, you know, getting solo exhibitions and stuff like that. But you really just have to believe in yourself. And just remember, in two years from now, who knows what this new career or this new path is going to look like. And it's always that same thing like I was talking about, which is the end for this. You just take it day by day and step by step. And an amazing piece of advice that my mom gave me actually when I moved back and was starting this process was take the path of least resistance, meaning find your people. And I actually think Bernard Brown talks about this to the people that are open and receptive to your work, go with them. And even if they're not the coolest people, all the people that you saw, you know, your imagined you want to be in your life, they're the people who are already there saying, hey, I love what you're doing. And then the people who aren't. And maybe they're the cool people that you sort you want to, you know, around there shouldn't be done. We're just not even responding or not giving you anything. So don't like just off pursuing. So, you know, that's been a much my journey since I've been back. And actually, I have been listening to kind of Brian's podcast recently where he interviews all these amazing people and he was talking to. But they both had children and they were talking about. That's the thing they want for their kids, like teenage kids, like, you know, just wait till you find your people, no matter what it is that you do. It's like science. You're like a card or whatever. Just wait until you find your people and everything kind of opens up. And so I've kind of been coming into that phase now, which is which is just really amazing. It's humbling. And it's like it's awesome. And it just makes you want to be that person for someone else.
Yeah, totally. Totally. I couldn't agree more. And that whole, like, cultivate the right supportive network. That's something I talk about a lot and actually have talked about on this podcast as well. But I completely agree. And I find that, you know, you are you are definitely part of my people. Likewise. And and so, Dara, your mom is a very intelligent, lovely woman.
And speaking of your folks, you know, like, they are absolutely awesome. I've met them. I've had the pleasure of staying there with them. Can you tell us a little bit about what was your upbringing like so often? I want to know when I ask this question, you know, was this something that your parents were very, I guess, supportive or did your parents opt into art? And so therefore, you saw it as a you could be more trained to see that as a viable option versus, say, someone who was like, you need to be a doctor or a lawyer. Like, what was the upbringing that you had? Like, and how do you think that has influenced your career today?
Yeah, so mum and dad have always said to my brother and sister and I just do whatever you want as long as it makes you happy. And so they've always been completely supportive of everything I've done in my life. There's never been any resistance. It's never been, you know, don't become an artist, become a doctor or whatever. So that's been really great. And my mother's pretty artistic, too, after she was a schoolteacher and she retired fairly early. I think she was in her mid 40s when she retired and then started doing a painting course remotely to achieve like a plumber, I think. And then she always she was always into photography. So there was always that creativity there. And then my dad's a musician, too, and kind of a poet, as you know, as well as being a farmer. So these sort of five ideas of eccentric people that, you know, artsy fartsy crowds, you know, they were always present growing up. It's not like that was an unusual concept to grasp. And then also, you know, when that's in eighty nine, I think as a family, we took a holiday to the US and we went to New York. And that was a life changing experience because I remember even as a six or seven year old on that trip, I remember thinking I am back live here one day. This is this is my goal. So that started really early. And yeah, as a kid, I was Mum said to me the other day, she, like, you're kind of like a funny kid because you kind of spoke almost like an adult and you were almost a bit more interested to hang out with the adults and the child and the children. And it's like I've always been a designer or an artist. And it was either drawing house plans, the six year old, or making small motion movies or all those types of things I was doing from a young age. And then when I was a teenager, I was really into bands. And Sonic Youth is my favourite bands. And so I started a website for them. At the dawn of the Internet, basically, which became super, super popular, wrote Why? To the extent that their record label started sending me all their latest releases from New York as kind of a thank you for doing this like promotion and really promotion for them. Yeah. So, yeah, those kinds of things just came really naturally to me. And then also another thing is this is magazine. It's not around anymore, but it was called index. And that basically documented all of the kind of 90s downtown New York City culture. And I don't know how, but the local bookshop in my town did. And it was only ever one copy a week, a month. And I would always get it. And that entire culture of that NYC cool. Well, I was always transfixed so that, you know, from a young me young age. So there was this kind of a never inevitable that I would end up there. And it just it just makes me think, too, you know, you are you are from from birth and you just you're born with that spark and you just have to tune into that and follow that. And that that will give you more of a happy life, I think.
Yeah, it's really interesting. I don't know if you've watched that E.K. documentary series seven up. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's one of my favourite thing. I mean, I just love all of those things. I love, like Stanford University. They've done a happiness project with the same people for like seventy five years. I just like that documentation of people from seven up series from when they seven, you know, every seven years until they're in their 70s now. And I think at the start of it they have like a quote the narrator saying, give me a child at seven and I'll show you a man or something. So I sort of saying, like, whoever you are by seven, lots of those traits will continue all through your life. And it's just you tapping back into that and being like, yeah, what was I like as a child and how can I kind of develop some of those traits and things again rather than hide from them or diminish them as you get older and more societal pressures to not do things like, for instance, I'll make.
Right. And that's really interesting. You should say that, too, because I've always I think about this kind of occurred to me a couple of years ago. And it was when listening to the intro, which is a guitar solo by Prince at the intro of Madonna's Express Yourself. It gave me really hardcore dayjob, like almost transformative. And it put me back to me as a six year old. And I just remember feeling so entirely complete and whole and happy in this little creative being that has kind of been my goal to get back to that place, because it's like you're born like that. And then, like you say, you get all of the indoctrination from society. Then you put all these guards and layers and all these things on. And then now I feel like I'm trying to strip all those layers of life to get back to that essence. You know what I mean? And when you find that that's your pure creative self, that's when you the work that you're making then is one hundred percent unique because that's coming from your soul.
Yeah. Yeah, totally. I couldn't agree more. And even like a marketing perspective, you know, I'm always one of the things that I talk about regularly at speaking events. So what about is, you know, humanising your brand. And it's always like this only, you know, it sounds like cliche, but there's only one you there's seven billion people on the planet. And, you know, like, for instance, with me, there's a billion and one business coaches, it's a billion and one marketing consultants. But it's like, what about you? Makes your story different. And then how can you share that with the world? Because that is what's gonna set you apart.
Absolutely. Absolutely. And it is it is difficult to. And even now, I struggle with it life as an artist, you know, and I've been formulating my aesthetic over the last few years. But, you know, we're always exposed to so much visual media now and Instagram and all that. And you can't help but like look at other artists or other whatever it is that you do and do that terrible compare yourself thing or take on those influences. And it's like, yeah, it's so hard to shut that voice off, but you really just have to I mean, it's great to be aware of everything that's going on. But you just kind of let it penetrate into how we let you do what you did. Yeah.
Yeah, exactly. And so you've talked about just in social media and you've talked about these magazines that helped you back in the day and just sort of the inspiration. What else do you think has helped you building the various businesses so you could be had any mentors to listen? I mean, you mentioned it kind of night, Brian. Podcast. Are they a kind of book, soul or mantras or anything else that's really helped you on your business journey that you much chance that someone else might be helped by?
Yeah, well, I think the main one for me has been other people, whether that be colleagues or bosses or even friends. And I think the important thing there is just to recognise who those people are in your life. And when you come across them, really just tune in and listen and learn and never be too proud to kind of show that vulnerability and ask and stop. Because for me, I think, like I said, it's you and this, Richard, but there's other people, too. And in completely different industries. Like, one person that comes to mind is my friends and former employees Sway, who is a restauranteur in Melbourne. And, you know, back before I got the job right with you, I was a waiter. And subliminally, I think I have absorbed just how she's an awesome business owner and operator. And I just think, like, how much a person like her isn't lets me make a business sense. And maybe that's just how, you know, treating your your staff or your colleagues or whatever. Yeah. Just look around. Lots of people do things with their eyes closed all the time. And basically everything you need is already at your fingertips. It's just a matter of tuning in now which energies to really get into, which we're in the same breath. Which ones to war. Which ones are negative? Yeah. Like for me, the process of becoming a more well rounded and whole human is very closely linked to the kind of business side, too. Maybe it's more because of the nature what I do. But it's also like when you're talking about, like, find a way to humanise your brand. So, for instance, I'm a big advocate of meditation. They advocate of exercise almost daily routines that just make your mind better, because at the end of the day, you know, that's what's running your business.
Yeah. Total time. One of the things. Yeah. I would just say this quick story because it just reminds me when you were talking, I think that you never want to be too proud to learn from other people as well. Like no matter who they are and what their experience level is or if they've got opinions or things that can help you. When I started my business and I, I put it I put my dad escucha on Instagram and I didn't really tell people about it. And I instantly had a bunch of kind of I guess you could call them Competitors'. So other business coaches contact me and I could accuse this new kid on the book kind of thing. And one in particular was like, oh, we should catch up. And so it's like, okay, great. No, I like yep. I'm going to catch up with you. And so she was like, call me at this time. And so I called in. When I called out, she was really like, who are you? Sorry. Like. And it was just sort of negative. Then she was like, you should come out for lunch with these women. They are all amazing and I think it's a great networking opportunity for you. And then she said something which has stayed with me forever in a kind of. Never, ever do this to. She said to me, Now, when you come to lunch, these women are really experienced in what they do. So I don't want you talking much. I think that is a great opportunity for you to come and learn. But I don't think that, like, you've just started so, like, don't really give your opinion kind of thing. And I remember just being like, wow, you know, you're basing everything off my Instagram that maybe you had, like, 10 people following it. You're sort of you're equating that, oh, she's got ten followers, therefore she doesn't know what she's doing. And I'm going to the lunch. And I actually ended up knowing quite a few of the people at the lunch who were like, oh, my God, Fiona should get in this conversation and she should help us, you know, brainstorm this. And I remember just forever. It stayed with me. And I'm like, I will never, ever, ever let somebody else feel like that about themselves, because somebody who didn't know what they do told them not to talk up at a table. Always remember that. And I said, I've seen that person, you know, and I think, you know, well done to her and her business. But I just think it's such a bad mistake to make and think that, oh, you know, just because this person is new in their business or that they don't have something to bring to the table. So, yeah, it just it just it's the people who are listening. Like, never, ever dismiss somebody else's opinion or, you know, the opportunity. You could learn from people regardless of where they sit in the experience level.
Absolutely. And on the flipside of that, too, is the person that perhaps has little or no experience. I always felt like, especially when I sort of first moved to New York in the first few years, actually, because, as I said, the motion graphics industry was something I hadn't done before. And so I felt like I was really out of my league, even though all they wanted was design. Like I wasn't animating or anything that I was supposed to be a designer and I had already been designing know all my life. So I was more than well prepared to do that job. But it was all the kind of noise and almost like pretence around the way these people would talk and seem really confident and use these terms and buzz words. And it made me feel really. And, you know, I I've dealt with that sort of feeling a lot in my life, like in an official sense. But you have to realise sometimes that these people also don't know what they're talking about.
They're just putting on a good show.
And actually, I must say, when I had that moment of when I'm sober and had all this clarity, I kind of realised, like, actually no one knows what they're talking about. It's just different degrees of faking it. Yeah. It's just unfortunate that that can make other people feel really insecure and not worthy. So I would say to anybody out there that feels like that, chances are you probably already do know. You know, there's always going be technical things, but you can learn them along the way. It's your your vision really is one of businesses.
Yeah. Yeah, totally. And so talking to your younger self, like, what is one thing that you would have done differently if you were starting out now? So if you were if you were back to the Paul Darragh of the early 2000s, what kind of advice or what's one thing that you do differently?
Yeah. I thought that I thought about this a lot actually. And mostly I wouldn't change a thing. But one thing that could have helped me, and I think it's good business advice, is just to be kind and treat everybody well because you never, ever know what that person is going to be in the future and how they might relate to you in your business. So just never burn a bridge unless someone is just an absolute or terrible person, then fine. But just always treat everybody with kindness. I think.
Yeah. Always at home. Treat them as you like to be treated. Instil that in my son constantly at the moment. My seven year old he treats at the house. Lovely. Actually I shouldn't say that. He's a lovely, lovely child. But yeah, you do have that whole like that was drummed into me from day dot with my dad in particular was always like, be kind. You never know what someone's going through.
Not that I was a terrible person to you. You never know in the future that that person may become the CEO of some company that you and you really want them as a client.
Yeah. That actually happened to me based have a column in the Sunday social column. And so I was in with a lot of publicists who wanted, you know, this before social media. So that was one of the key ways for them to get, you know, their clients. So at the latest footballer or the footballer, wife or whoever into the social pages. And so they were always, you know, my best friend. Throughout. Me being the social columnist. And a lot of them have remained really great friends, but quite a few. As soon as I stopped doing that job were very much like, no, you're nothing to me. I don't need anything from you. And then actually, when I moved into a head of marketing role, I managed three teams. One was content. One was digital. And one was the PR team. And we actually needed to hire a PR manager. And quite a few of those people applied. And it was really interesting to have that dynamic again and be like, wow, you know, like we sort of look at other tables are turned. Yeah. Yeah. And we ended up hiring somebody who was fantastic. But I totally agree. You just never know. And just be kind, like just being nice human. That's really what it boils down to.
Yeah. It makes things easier. It alleviates anxiety. Yes.
And so what is next for you? And thank you so much for your time this morning. But like, what is next for you and how can people connect with you? And if they've heard something and they're like, oh my gosh, I really need to tell Paul that that really touched me or impacted me or I love that he said this. How can they connect with you?
So Instagram would be the best way. My handle was modern one. And then, yeah, my website demands. I can't answer. But yeah. Coming up, I have a solar shower, one and two in New Zealand in October and then another one in January in Montreal, New Zealand, the Wallace Gallery, and then my show that was supposed to be in Melbourne in April. Now, looks like it's going to be February depending on the current situation.
I've also just recently taken up residence at a really amazing institution here and sort of calls the incubator. And they have some amazing studios. They have amazing galleries. The studios are generally open, you know, every day until three to the public just to come by and come into my studio and say hello.
Awesome. Thank you. I'll add all of those in the show notes, as always. Yeah. Thank you so much, Paul.
We could just talk for hours and hours now. That's what we do. Absolutely. Thank you so much. I really enjoyed it. Bye bye.
Oh, I so love chatting with Paul, always just so much gold in his words, every time I have a conversation with him and I do have them regularly. I often call him when I'm doing my morning walk at like 6:30 in the morning, which is 8:30 over his time. And we have these really good conversations and I always find just a new way of approaching things. After I chat to him. So I'd love to know what did you most take away from our conversation? For me, two things that stood out. The first is Paul's ambition. And we can often see that word ambition in kind of a negative light. But when I'm saying it about Paul, I mean it in the best possible way. He is a really ambitious person. And when you talk to him and when you can feel that energy, it makes you want to be ambitious, too. And it makes you want to go out and find things that light you up and have a go at doing them. Even if he wasn't always 100 percent confident, he would reach out to people to seek work, even when it seemed impossible of even getting a response. And it was this attitude, this idea that the worst someone can say is no. That led him to getting his art and graphics into some of the most respected publications at the time. Even now, moving back to New Zealand and switching careers and having to start from scratch, really, and finding galleries and finding these people and pitching exhibitions, he has that same drive, that same determination and want to make it happen. And I absolutely love that about Paul.
The second thing that really stood out to me with this chat was his sense of coming home and finding himself, finding himself without the big New York agency work attached. You know, just being able to uncover “Who am I? When you strip away all the things I've been able to achieve in my working life, who am I? What makes me happy? What makes me content? What do I need right now?”
And he talked about, you know, needing to be around his parents right now. And I definitely relate to that. His parents are amazing. They're like super cool. Everyone would want to be around them. And he's very lucky to have them. But I think that for Paul, the answer of who am I and what makes me happy has always been to do with creating and designing and painting and making - doing things that bring beauty and bring curiosity into the world and into the audience that is looking at them. He is someone who will always be doing that, regardless of what else is happening. He has this innate desire to create and to stay curious.
So thank you so much for listening to this episode. I would love to know what you took away most from our chat, and I am sure that Paul would, too. So you can definitely find us both on Instagram. Paul is at @bemodern1 as just the numeral one, and I'm at @mydailybusinesscoach. As always, if you're listening to this on the go and you'd love to go and read this or have a bit more time to digest it in text format, we do share the full transcript and show notes over at mydailybusinesscoach.com/podcast/42 as this is episode 42.
And as always, if you love the show, I'd love it if you could leave a review. It just helps other small business owners find this podcast and hopefully they get inspiration and motivation from these stories as well. Thank you so much. See you next time.
Thanks for listening to My Daily Business Coach podcast. If you want to get in touch, you can do that at mydailybusinesscoach.com or hit me up on Instagram at @mydailybusinesscoach.
Contact Paul Darragh
+64 21 079 1245
