Episode 432: Shehreen Ahmed of 71 Bay

I think with the pandemic years and the ups and downs in retail, I've chosen to continue working and it just gives my mind a bit of ease. But that of course means that I always need help with time. But what I try and do, a lot of it has come from my work with you as well, just tackling one specific set of tasks. I think I mentioned this when we spoke as well, I cannot organise time, like months in advance. It works for me to go like a fortnightly thing. Right now, I set a set of tasks each week, and I love that dopamine hit of getting things done. But that's like my focus for each week and that's how I try to get things done. And it's been working so far.

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Welcome to episode 432 of the My Daily Business podcast. Today is an interview episode and this is somebody who I find just so wonderful to chat to. Interesting and interested person in life, in art, in design, in all things. Excited about bringing you this interview episode. Before we get stuck into that, I want to let you know that group coaching is open and today's guest went through Group Coaching and recently finished up the year-long program that we run with the sidestep, the Hustle Group Coaching program. If you are keen to be part of that, if you're keen to have a group of supportive, creative, small business owners that you can turn to at any time for the whole year and beyond because many of these groups keep meeting after Group Coaching officially finishes so you can meet people that become lifelong friends and sometimes you need that in business.

It can feel very lonely. And particularly if you don't have other friends or close people in your life who are also small business owners. If you're interested in checking out the program and applying, you can do so at mydailybusiness.com/groupcoaching. The other thing of course I want to mention is to pay my respects to their traditional owners and custodians on the lands in which I record this podcast and run a Group Coaching program. And that for me here in North Warrandyte is the Wurrung and Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation. I pay my respects to their elders past and present and acknowledge that sovereignty has never been ceded. Let's get into today's interview episode.

Today it's my absolute pleasure to bring you an interview that I did a little while ago now with Shehreen Ahmed. Now Reen and I connected when she applied for Group Coaching and honestly, I was so impressed with her application and also with the business that she was and is building. 71 Bay comes from Bangladesh, which is also where she comes from. And she talks in today's interview episode about how she came up with the idea for 71 Bay, where the name comes from and why it's such an important and meaningful part of her life, and also an important meaningful business. In this episode, Shehreen and I talk about how she got started with the business and how it moved from just an idea to becoming products that are being sold photographed and coming into people's homes. We also talk about what it's been like for Shehreen to live in Australia, to raise her family here, but also to have, she says one foot in Australia and one foot in Bangladesh, and what does that means for her, for her culture, for her children, for the way they're being raised?

We have different paths that we've taken and she came to Australia a lot later in life, but I moved to Australia when I was almost four with my family. I'm the youngest of four children and I lived with parents who didn't have connections or they didn't know anyone. When they moved to Australia, my mom brought four of us out as children without knowing a single person in this country besides my father who she was meeting here. I grew up seeing my friends have all of these family parties and aunts and uncles and cousins and everything. We have no family here in Australia besides my siblings and myself and our parents have now passed away. When Shehreen is talking about just that connection to family, that connection to culture, that connection to how do I raise my children the way that I was raised or maybe elements of that and how do I also do that while also embracing this country that I now call home and that my children call home.

I think this is something I saw my parents go through, and particularly my mother. I think she would've loved to have stayed in Ireland and had all of those connections and networks and family, but they made the most of living here and they did so because they wanted to give us an incredible quality of life that they felt they couldn't have in that time in those countries. I just think that that idea of feeling connected and disconnected in both places at the same time is universal to anyone who lives in a country or is being raised in a country that is not where they were born or not where their family originally comes from. I appreciate Shehreen sharing all of that. I also appreciate just the practical advice. 

She talks about if you are somebody who wants to produce products ethically and sustainably how do you find places to do that and how do you find and make sure that you're working with reputable people and suppliers? We talk about all of that plus changing careers and being a mom and all sorts of things. It's a great interview and if you are somebody who works in the interior design space or architecture, or you are renovating your home or maybe just looking for a bit of an upgrade with your lights or other parts of your home, I would urge you to check out the beautiful work of 71 Bay and its founder Shehreen Ahmed. Here is my interview with the wonderful Shehreen Ahmed of 71 Bay.

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Hi Shehreen, welcome to the podcast.

Hi Fiona. Thank you for having me.

I'm excited to get started and get stuck into this and I think you have a fantastic business, but firstly, I always like to ask everyone, how are you feeling about life right now?

All good. There's been a lot going on, studies, work, all sorts of things, but with winter coming we're hunkering down a bit. I'm trying to slow down a bit and stay at home a bit more. 

It's nice. I have my birthday in winter, but I also just love winter. I just feel like it's nice too, I'm a total homebody, so it is nice to snuggle and just stay at home. Tell us about your beautiful business, which I'm super excited to be sharing with more of my audience. I know you and I have worked together and I know lots of people know about your business already, but can you tell us about your business?

My business is called 71 Bay. We work with women in Bangladesh and we are in the homewares industry. All our products and wear are designed in Melbourne by me and then handmade by artisans in Bangladesh. We're partnered with registered fair trade organisations and we work with women in rural remote areas for our drought products and then also artisans in Paca City for our cartel wares.

Wow. Can you tell us a bit more about the journey to get to 71 Bay? Because running this homewares business is not what you have also studied working. How did you get to start 71 Bay?

It's been a while since I had the idea for 71 Bay come into my mind. There's a bit of a backstory. I moved to Melbourne 10 years ago. My husband was already here. He'd been studying and then working and we'd done like long distance for about four years before we got married.

Wow. And where were you? Sorry?

I was in Bangladesh, sorry. I was studying architecture in Bangladesh at that time. And then the plan was that once we got married, I moved here, we travel around, make up for lost time, all of that. While I was waiting for my spouse's visa, we decided to apply for a tourist visa from Bangladesh and on the farms it was like, you need to do an X-ray. And my mom, who's a doctor said that there was a little like note take note that you're not pregnant before doing the X-ray and all of that. My mom said we better get checked because she's a doctor. And I was like, “Okay.” And turned out that we were pregnant.

Did your mom do the pregnancy test?

No, we went to the doctor, but she's the one who was like, before we do the X-ray we need to do this. I probably wouldn't have even noticed.

So then your mom knew straight away.

Yes, she found out because she's a doctor. We went to her friend's clinic and her friend called her and she knew before me.

Were you annoyed about that? Or you like no, I guess she was at the other doctor's medical abuse.

No, it was all a shock. But I think it was just that I think our idea was, we'll just do whatever is needed and if it happens, it happens was our thought when we were on the honeymoon. But there was no plan. The only reason for that though was that I was diagnosed with polycystic ovary syndrome and in Bangladesh said, you're going to have trouble having a baby. And I was like, in that case, if it happens, it happens. We'll leave it to that. 

That's crazy. You were pregnant before you even came over here to start your new life?

Exactly. All our best-laid plans were put aside and we ended up having a long-distance pregnancy as well, which do not recommend. Finally, on my eighth month of pregnancy, the spouse visa came through and I could travel to Melbourne flying in like the last week that they allow you on the plane. And then my son was born like a month later.

What a way to start in a new country. I've only gone from Australia to London twice, but obviously, London is very similar in terms of language, similar culture in a way. But I can't imagine being pregnant and then having a brand new baby in that situation. Because It's hard enough as it is.

I know I was 26 at that time and I was just excited. Like I think that was the only emotion I was feeling. I was excited to be in this new country and to be starting married life with my boyfriend of so many years previously. And then having a baby and having a new family, so I didn't have any scary thoughts or sad thoughts at that time. I was just living on some adrenaline or something. 

Yes. I feel like more than the move or those changes or leaving family behind, I did feel what I felt was like this disconnect. And I think that's because in Bangladesh my background being in architecture, I was quite connected to the art and design and architecture scenes that were happening there. And I knew the creative people and knew what was happening around the city. And then I was in this new place and I knew no one and didn't know the city didn't know what was happening. I think my initial way was to attempt to learn more about the art and culture in Melbourne. I would go out a lot with my son because I wasn't working and I was just I'd just arrived and everything was new and we'd go to events and exhibitions and galleries and all those things.

We went on a lot of adventures together. I'd packed everything under the prem and we got to know Melbourne and what was happening around us. The plan was to continue my studies in architecture, but those maybe in the industry would know that it's quite a full-on degree doing a master's. I thought at that time, I think that was the first time I evaluated my strengths and my weaknesses and I realised that this is not for me at this time and I don't want to put my family and myself through this. I decided to do interiors. I've been working in that interior space for the past few years in Melbourne, but that nagging feeling was always there with having one leg here and one leg there and neither here and nor there, which I think a lot of people who've immigrated would probably be able to relate to or have felt at some point.

I was like, you're either going to spend your life feeling this way all the time in this tug-of-war situation, or you can decide what you want to do and if there's anything that can be done. That's when that idea for 71 Bay came into my mind and it was initially to connect creatively my two homes, Bangladesh and Australia the other driving reason was that I wanted my kids to also be connected to their roots and for it to go a bit further than just visiting back home and for them to see Bangladesh and hopefully that is something that will stay with them. That's how it all started.

That is so interesting. And I feel like, so many people listening to this, I mean we have listeners all over the world, but so many people reading will resonate with that. Then how did you get started? How did you decide which products to make and the whole brand?

I was always obsessed with crafts growing up in Bangladesh and also whenever I travelled I loved the things that people made with all of this heritage history culture and traditional skills. I guess a natural part for me in a way. If I were to think about creating something creatively, like a practice of my own, it never struck me to have an interior design practice. It was more while I was working in that space. It was craft somehow. Also, my mom had worked in community medicine and when I was in primary school, she would travel to villages and work with women in villages as part of her job. I just remember that I remember thinking that it was this cool, good job to have.

I was like nine years old, I didn't know what the extent of what she was doing and stuff, but I think it stayed with me. Working with women in the villages of Bangladesh as well was something that somehow spoke to me for some reason. I don't know, I always feel like if I wasn't in architecture I would probably be working in the development sector or NGO space. But so that was in 2016 or 2017 and then it all happened by chance a bit. I told my dad the idea that was in my head and he came across this flyer or a poster for a trade expo in Taka City, which is the capital of Bangladesh. And then he went there on my behalf. I was in Melbourne and that's where he met the organisers who would eventually become my first partners. They were registered with a World Fair Trade organisation and had worked in Bangladesh since its liberation in 1971. That's how that started.

Amazing. I love that you have so much influence from your dad and mom, but also I think that's so cool that your dad took that idea and went so many more steps further to like, I'm going to go and check this out for you. I'm going to go and try and find good suppliers and partners for you. Then that whole like ethically made product is very important to you. And then when you mentioned just before 1971, is that how you came up with the name?

Yes. 71 is the year, and 1971 is the year that year of independence for Bangladesh. Previously it was a part of Pakistan and then the Bay comes from the Bay of Bingo, which is in the south of the country. And our logo is a part of the map as well.  

Wow. A huge thing. With the products and process then, did you know from your interior work, how that process would work? Were you guided by these partners that your dad initially found? How did you then decide on these products and then what's the process? You said before they're designed in Melbourne, so do you design them and then What's the whole process for getting them made by these different NGOs and different companies or trades that work with the artisans?

I'm not sure how I came to just narrowing it down to Jute, I've always loved Jute and then Katas have been a part of our lives growing up in Bangladesh.

Can you explain what they're both of them? For anyone who doesn't know?

Jute is one of the most sustainable raw materials in the world today. It's biodegradable, it's recyclable and it returns nutrients to the soil as it grows. Whereas Kantha is blankets that are made of old cotton. They become soft while it's being used over the years. The word path means patch cloth, which is an integral part of the history of bingo, during colonial times it was Pakistan, Bangladesh, and India. This is where the poorer woman would layer their olds together and they would have one single running stitch, essentially making a blanket to serve a very basic need. That's what they are, or the background of Jute and Kantha. What production looks like for us at this point is with Jute Wears, we work with artisans who are located in villages all across Bangladesh.

Our production happens from their homes. It's around their day-to-day chores and running of their families and kids and cooking and all of that. This has been very important and has been very important in driving me as well because it means that these communities can stay together. It means that these women and their families are not displaced looking for work. Namely, the trend is that they move from villages into the city, which are already overcrowded and then they end up living in the slums which create a whole heap of other problems including safety and hygiene and basic well-being and help. What it means is that they remain in their lands or on their lands and within their communities and they can just work from their homes. There are also training centres that are set up in the villages, so should someone need any assistance with any particular skill they can be booked with our partners and they will organise for that workshop to happen.

Another important aspect of this is that it's not just craft skills, it's also life skills. These women are taught about handling finances and money and also about public health and medicine and from maternal child health nurse services are provided or organised at times. That's how all of that, Turks for our Jute production. With the Jute as well. Going back to how they create our products. The general trend is that they will get together in the late afternoons. Our artisans usually sit outside weather permitting of course in the courtyards, which is a traditional aspect or future of architecture in the Bengal region. And this is their time to catch up and they can hone their skills in their craft and also just catch up on life with their neighbours and communities. And that's how all our products are made. Their kids can be around them. That's the, if I were to paint a bit of a picture that's what it is. But then of course they do work from their homes as well on their own too if they need to or when they get the time.

Wow. And then the Kantha?

I feel very privileged to be able to support two different kinds of groups or communities of women. The Jute is with our artisans in the villages. With our Kantha’s we're partnered with an organisation that rehabilitates women who were at risk of trafficking or previously forced into the sex industry. These women are already in Taka City and they work from training centers over there. Our partners teach them the skills of Katas teaching and then they're also enrolled in programs that teach them how to read and write. All our kaas come with them stitching their names in both Bengali and English. A lot of them also have children. There's a daycare set up in the building for children up to school age. And then our NGO organisation helps to enrol the older children in the local schools.

Wow, this is amazing. There's so much in there that I would love to unpack, but what are the challenges then that you have with this creative vision? And you were talking about the arts and the culture and going to galleries and designing and all of that. And then you've got the practical aspects of running a business when you live a long way away. And where the actual stuff is getting made and you've got these partners that you're relying on. What are the challenges there?

One of the main frustrations I used to have was the process of creating new products. For me, because of my design background, perhaps design comes quite naturally and I'm always thinking about new products and new details that can be added. I would sketch them out, check measurements and proportions and scales and all of those things and then send it to my, send my drawings and my notes to my partners in Bangladesh. Then they would pass it on to the head artisan or experienced artisan to start to create the samples. But what I found is that there was so much back and forth in this and it was frustrating for both us and like me and my partners. I realised during one of my visits that it was in 2018 when we created our Mohona basket, which is our second design in the basket.

It just happened instantly when I was with the artisans in the village and we were trying out different things together and it just all came together and it was just an easy process. Now what I do is I don't do that anymore. I do carry a sketchbook with me all the time because I get ideas, I jot them down, and they're refined several times. But I leave it till I am visiting or in the same space as my artisans visiting Bangladesh to get it done there. And then I travel back with one set of these new designs or samples. I get them photographed here while the bulk of the order is being made in Bangladesh. The other challenge is that I'm not naturally inclined towards numbers. I have to keep reminding myself that, look, no, I have to be financially savvy because that is the only way that I can provide ongoing sustainable work to my artisans. And that is their employment and regular income source. That keeps me driving and I'm getting better at it, but naturally, it's not a natural thing for me. Whereas design is, I guess.

With the design and just the knowledge and having spent a lot of your life in Bangladesh, did you know about the methods that there were artisans that did this work? Or was that something that you were introduced to through the partners? Did you have a lot of knowledge about these traditional crafts and techniques that now are the underpinnings of your business?

No. While I've always been so much into crafts and heritage and all of those things, I knew very little about how to start connecting to the craftsmen or craftspeople of the country. It happened by chance. I didn't even know that these expos happened in the city. That happened by chance. But being partnered with organisations who are committed to fair wages and sustainability, makes my job quite easy in the sense that I do not have to go looking for information or dig things because they have all their reports and findings and research that I have access to. They are partnered with the World Fair Trade Organization, so they're audited and they have all of that information. That has been immensely helpful for me. Also, I feel like there's nothing that can beat going out there and seeing for yourself and talking to the people who make your products. I've learned on the job from my partners and my artisans.

I know that you have lots of other stuff going on because we've worked together, and I know what else you're doing and you did allude to it at the start, like studying and you've got so much going on as well as this business. What are the challenges that you've faced in the development and growth of this 71 Bay brand? And then, how have you worked through those? Because you've got a lot on your plate.

I think my biggest challenge is time. Yes, as you were saying, like there's never enough of it. I think that 71 Bay entered a second phase in 2021 when my daughter Samara was born, I'd been working in a well-known interior design firm. I loved it. And I was working on 71 Bay on the side at that time. But my hours at the job were very long. When I felt pregnant in 2021, I re-evaluated once more, like how I'd done when I'd moved. And I decided not to pursue the architecture pathway. I just thought that, no I can't do these long hours anymore. My son was almost eight and I just felt like time was passing by in front of my eyes and I needed to make a change.

Now I'm still working, but I'm teaching interior design at a tafe and I think with the pandemic years and the ups and downs in retail, I've chosen to continue working and it just gives my mind a bit of ease. But that of course means that I am always struggling with time. But what I guess I try and do, and a lot of it has come from my work with you as well, Fiona is just tackling one specific set of tasks. I think I mentioned this when we spoke as well, I cannot organize time eight months in advance. It works for me to go like a fortnightly thing. Right now, I set a set of tasks each week, and I love that dopamine hit of getting things done, but that's like my focus for each week.

That's how I try to get things done. And it's been working so far, of course, ups and downs again, but it's it's doing something. I think the other thing I also started to do is take some deep rest. That's a term that I just made up, or maybe it does exist, I don't know, but I've started to nap with my daughter. Once a week on the weekend I'll take naps. I've never done that in my life. I'll sit down to watch a movie at least once a week with my son without being on the phone without doom scrolling. These are just small things that I'm trying to do.

Those small things add up and I feel like that rest is so important I just think I've said it so many times, but I feel like that whole hustle, rise and grind. The only way to get in head in business is to work 24/7 and if you're not, you're not trying. I just think that is such BS and there are so many people out there who are doing great work and figuring out a way that works for them as opposed to this is the only way to do it. I love that you talk about that and go, you taking the naps. I would love to be able to sleep during the day. I never can, and my husband can take a nap anywhere, anytime. He'll be asleep in five minutes.

My mom used to be amazing at taking naps anytime. But I think it's, maybe I need to learn, maybe I need to take a a page out of your book. Speaking of taking advice and looking at what you're doing, what advice would you give to anyone who's an aspiring artist or looking to embark on this similar journey? And particularly with the ethical, sustainable supply chain and all of that, are there things you would've avoided? Is there something you would've done more of? What would you say to someone who's reading thinking this is exactly what I want to do?

I know that like almost all small businesses with production overseas, they face so many challenges and there's just so much on Google and you don't, you cannot possibly know what to trust and whom to trust often. But I do feel like the World Trade Organization website is a good place to start for anyone who's looking to source ethical fair trade or sustainable products. The website links to member organisations that are all across the world. I feel like that's a good solid starting point which can be trusted. The other thing I also found out recently, and I was listening to a talk by I think Kate from Kip and Co. she mentioned that there are expos here as well. At the Melbourne Convention Centre Exhibition and Convention Centre, I didn't know that, but suppliers or production like houses and companies will fly in and exhibit.

It's a whole expo. You can go to and talk to them. I felt like, that's a good way as well possibly rather than googling. The other thing is also that people think that handmade production processes cannot cater to bulk orders, but that's not the case at all because my partners, all of my partners, work with communities all across the country, across, and I imagine this would be the same in other places as well. There are a lot of artisans who are skilled and ready to work. I'm just looking for work.

On that note as well, what other business resources or are there tech tools that you swear by or apps or books even that have inspired you or helped you in this business?

I'm someone who's quite easily amazed and odd. Sometimes I don’t know  if it's a good thing or not, but I am like that. I'm amazed so frequently. My husband says it's so naive, but I feel like just the clever and creative things that people make and services they offer and the ingenious solutions that they come up with. That always inspires and drives me. I'm always on the lookout for that. And thanks to the algorithm and all of those, that's all that comes up on my social media platforms now. I think I know a lot of what's going on through that. To be honest, I haven't read too many books in the past few years, but I do follow websites such as The Design Files and Yellow Trace, and I love reading about the routines of creative people in the field feel like that gives an insight into different ways that things can work for people. I'm of course a part of your coaching group, Fiona. The Sidestep the hustle, and that has been fantastic membership and access to like-minded creative business owners and community over the past year. Thank you for that.

Thank you for being part of it.

Because these are people I would not have met otherwise, and it has just been lovely to start to build up that community. That is what I think drove me to start this business at the start when I was feeling so disconnected when I moved here. It has al also meant that it has kept me accountable and one of the big things that I struggled with was about systems and processes, which is fairly still quite simple for me. But for example, one of the things was that I had ideas and notes jotted down everywhere. I've started using Trello which has helped to keep my courts organized. Those are some of the things that have helped me.

Thank you. And thanks for sharing those things. I'm sure you've got a long list, but what are you most proud of from your journey with 71 Bay so far?

I don't have a long list. I rarely like completely happy with everything that I do but I think that keeps me striving to push myself and I like pushing myself. I think that's just a part of me that I've accepted now and I try to make the best of it. But I guess if I had to say it would be my determination or stubbornness to not give up because there were many instances, especially being a new migrant in a new country, starting to build a family many instances where there could have been other ways of not as volatile as starting a business thing as that. I'm proud that I've been stubborn in my ideas and thoughts. 

The other thing I'd say, and it's not being proud, but I feel rather humbled is a resilience and hope that I see and also learn from, from my artisans because they just remind me of their strength and their perseverance in the times that I'm down or I'm in the dumps. It helps me to get up and keep going and it drives me and it's just amazing to see the things that they think about and they say and they do while not necessarily having the best opportunities given to them,

I could keep talking forever, but what is next? If people are reading this and they're thinking, what's next for you? Or how do I connect with you? Or maybe they're in the design space or maybe they've just bought a new house and they want to deck it out or how do they connect and what's coming up for you?

What's coming up for me is that I've just started, so we were talking a bit about my studying and all of that, having a full plate at the moment. I've just started a master of design by research at RMIT where I'm looking at combining my practice at 71 Bay with research. I'm excited to see and explore and find out how these two might connect and where it may take 71 bay in in the future in terms of connecting with us. There's Instagram, it's just me on the DMs and me here 

@71bay_fairtrade. Still very small. You'll be speaking to me and then by email, you can get that via our website, which is 71-bay.com. 

Amazing. Thank you so much and we'll link to all of that in the show notes as well. But thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story and insights there are so many things in there that I'm sure people will resonate with and I've taken away a lot from our chat, so thank you.

Thank you so much for having me Fiona.

Bye.

Bye.

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Isn't that so inspiring? Honestly, after this chat I was like, I want to go and create products. I always do this. I have always wanted to create products and honestly for years and I've worked in e-commerce for so long, at some point I will create products, but if I do, I will aim to follow in Shehreen's footsteps of creating with an ethical, sustainable pathway. I love that she talked about how it's not just the creators and the makers, it is their community, their children. The long-term impact of this with education, I mean there's just so much in that. And just another reason that if you are producing things to think about how it's being produced, where it's being produced, what does the livelihood and life look like for the people that are creating the products that you are then selling and sharing with your audience.

If you want to know more about 71 Bay, as Shehreen said, you can go to 71-bay.com. You can also find out what they're doing over on Instagram, which is just @71bay_fairtrade. We'll link to that in the show notes, which for this episode you'll find at mydailybusiness.com/podcast/432. Of course, I'm going to highlight two things that stood out for me from my conversation with Shehreen. I mean there were so many, and of course, I mentioned some of this in the intro for this episode as well, but the first thing that stood out was just her dad going to have a look at the trade show for her. I love that. I love that so much. That one that she has incredibly supportive parents who are open to hearing about her business hopes and dreams, but also not just hearing about them but being like, how can I help?

Whether you are a parent or whether you are a friend of somebody who has a small business or you're a sister or cousin, sometimes you just need somebody to say, this is a great idea, how can I help? I love that her father went and took those extra steps and I'm sure it was quite interesting before my mother passed away, she was getting interested in entrepreneurship and she was in her seventies and at first when I wanted to start a business, she was like, what are you doing? You're walking away from like a secure, well-paid executive role towards the end of her life. The last email she ever sent me was to tell me about a book that she'd got in the library for me. I think it was a hundred dollars Entrepreneurs. She was interested in it.

I think if you are still lucky enough to have your parents talk to them about what you're interested in and don't ever dismiss that people are too old or don't understand this or that because they're people that love you and they want the best for you and they want to support you. Sometimes it just needs somebody to say, how can I help you? I love that her father did that. I love it so much. I just think that so many of us need to see with people that we love, how can we help them. It sounds like Shehreen has incredibly wonderful parents, so I hope they're reading this and giving themselves a pat on the back. The second thing that I love that she talked about was looking at how to work more efficiently and effectively with the suppliers.

She talked about the frustrations of going back and forth, back and forth and that now it's part of the process that she goes in person and visits because so much more can get done when you are side by side and with somebody and you can collaborate genuinely. And you're not trying to do that through email or Slack messages or through some documentation that when you bring people together, what can be created is so much deeper than sometimes what is being created in paper trails and when people are getting back to people at all sorts of hours. I just love that and it brings to mind the idea of the long-term cost of things. From the outset, you might think, that's going to be expensive to go and visit my suppliers or to get on a plane and do things.

Yes, it is expensive but is the idea of spending months and months going back and forth or potentially getting products made that aren't what you had. And then potentially you are selling them at a discount. You are maybe not selling them at all. You have huge stock bills, maybe you're then having to think about how you shoot things to make them look as good as possible. Maybe your stock is not going to be enamoured because what you promised was not what got delivered. Sometimes with things, whether it is going to visit stockers or whether it's something else that maybe isn't as large a thing to have to do in your business, you want to think about the long-term cost of this. What is the long-term cost of you not taking action on something or maybe you have to spend a little bit upfront to get the result that you want to get?

I know when I started this podcast, and I've talked about this many times, I knew that I didn't want to spend hours trying to figure out how to edit it myself. I also knew that I'd listened to many podcasts where the sound quality was not as good as it could have been. I didn't want that. I wanted people to have as much as they could because sometimes through my own fault, I don't have the microphone set up correctly. But the majority of the time, I would say between my microphone set up. But more importantly, my editor Scott, with his technical know-how and expertise, sounds good. We've had a lot of people come to us who have big podcasts and they've said, who does your editing? And now they have Scott or they've come and said, how do you set up your audio because it sounds good and professional and believe me, all the things that I had originally been taught about how to set up audio are not needed sometimes.

If you have a great editor, that to me was a long-term cost exercise. I did not want to have to spend hours slash months trying to figure out how to edit a podcast when I could pay somebody to do that. And yes, there is a cost, it's an expense. We don't run ads yet on this podcast, but I knew that the long-term cost of not getting somebody who's a professional editor to do this was that potentially people wouldn't listen to this as much or it would annoy them or the editing or I would just get frustrated of trying to figure this out or I'd rush things or I'd stop doing it. I didn't have the time to edit because I had to run a business. I would always say to people, think about the long-term cost when you are weighing up something rather than just the short-term cost. 

That is it for today. As I said, you can check out 71 Bay on Instagram, @71bay_fairtrade. You can also find them at 71-bay.com. I want to thank Shehreen again for coming on and being so honest and real and just helpful with everything that she shared go and check out her beautiful wares. The link for anything that Shehreen mentioned, including the fair trade information, will be available in our text format of this podcast, which is at mydailybusiness.com/podcast/432. Thanks so much for reading and I'll see you next time. Bye.