Episode 46: Creating Stories through Contemporary Indian Creative Culture : How Indian Goods Company provides ethical pieces that quash stereotypes
In this interview episode, Fiona has a chat with Vatsala Murthy from Indian Goods Company. They talk about the challenges she has had to overcome building a business in an industry - retail - that she wasn’t hugely experienced in while sharing stories about contemporary Indian culture and art through their products. Listen now as she talks about why this is so important to do and how she discovered and uncovered parts of her own ideas around Indian design while building this business.
Topics discussed in this episode:
Introduction
Catching up with Vatsala
How COVID affected the Indian Goods Co.
Getting to know more: Indian Goods Co.
Choosing to live in Germany
Starting Indian Goods Co.
The Indian design
On having an ethical business
Vatsala’s background and experience in business
On deciding what products to design
Influence in the business
Tools/Platforms Vatsala uses
Her proud moments in running Indian Goods Co.
Connecting with Indian Goods Co.
Conclusion
Resources mentioned in this episode:
Episode transcript:
Hello and welcome to episode 46 of the My Daily Business Coach podcast!
Today I am bringing you an interview episode and it’s an interview with someone I really find inspiring, someone who I thought I knew, to some degree, and who, through this interview I got to know even more.
Vatsala Murthy is an Indian-born, user-experience designer and senior art director, turned small business owner based in Frankfurt, Germany. Vatsala and I met a few years ago when she contacted me for business coaching. And from the very first session, I just felt like she was one of the most calming and compassion and creative people I’d met (and I’ve met quite a few). One of the things I really appreciate about Vatsala is how open she is to learning, not just from me when we were working together but also from anyone and everyone that she meets and from life itself. She is someone who is intensely curious and eager to share her curiosity and the interesting elements she finds in life and in people, with others.
This is partly what led her to start her business, Indian Goods Company, which is a contemporary ethical fashion, apparel and homeware retailer that enables you to find joy in the everyday. Vatsala sources pieces for her store (which you can find online at indiangoodscompany.com) that really tell a story about contemporary Indian creative culture and quash many of the stereotypes that exist around Indian design. In this interview she talks about why this is so important to do and how she discovered and uncovered parts of her own ideas around Indian design while building this business.
Vatsala also talks about the challenges she has had to overcome building a business in an industry - retail - that she wasn’t hugely experienced in. Recently, Vatsala has begun designing and commissioning her own product ranges and in this interview we chat about that process, how do you go from stocking other product brands to building one yourself.
This chat is one of my favourites as I find everytime I talk with Vatsala, I am left with this feeling of curiosity and calmness.
I know you will really enjoy this interview episode, so here it is, my chat with small business owner and the founder of Indian Goods Company, Vatsala Murthy.
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All right, I'm so excited to be chatting tonight, Vatsala Murthy from Indian Goods Co.. Welcome. Welcome. How are you? How are you feeling about 2020 at the moment.
Hi, Fiona. And first of all, thank you so much for having me on your lovely podcast. It's such an honour. I've always enjoyed speaking with you and to do it in this context is even better.
Thank you, I'm good, I'm good this year, as with everyone, has probably been a bit crazy, but it's also been a blessing in some way to have all of this - this time and to have so many things really laid bare for us on a global scale as well as on a personal level. And so, yes, we're coming to the end of it. It's an interesting time, I think, to reflect on how it's been an impactful time, I'd say, for, as you put it, for life and business.
And so you're in Frankfurt at the moment in Germany, and we were just talking before we hit record about the kind of not that I don't want to be like a doomsday, but the kind of second wave that's currently hitting Europe and all parts of the world. How has COVID kind of impacted your business, you know, this year. But also, I guess right now, like, I'm not sure what the what the impact is if you're getting more restrictions put there or or how is that sort of working right now for you.
With the second wave, things are definitely starting to close down again or are being restricted more again and I think there's a sense of sort of confusion and resignation because we've been through it before and things in Germany have been very open, I think, in comparison to a lot of other places. Even whilst we were in shutdown, it wasn't a lockdown. So businesses were closed, but people had freedom of movement. And since all of that was happening in spring and summer, you didn't have the sense of restriction. You could still meet people outdoors and maintain all of the social regulations that were required, but not feel like your life was being restricted in a huge way socially.
And now with winter coming on and the numbers rising as fast as they are, I'm interested in seeing what this means, especially for around the Christmas season and for businesses now as well, because no one really wants to be indoors. That is absolutely no chance of hosting any sort of events or pop ups or things like that. That was sort of possible in summer - June, July, August, and which actually were also so well-received, because I think I think what people are missing so much is the connection aspect as well. And this fine balance between how can we support local businesses and business and yet maintain the regulations that we need to be safe and protect ourselves, our families and all of the people that that need to be treated with care.
I think that the sort of finding that balance was a little bit it felt like it was easier to do warmer weather. And now I simply don't know. It's hitting starting to hit closer as well. You're hearing about people saying that if a friend had it or I'm in quarantine now because at the kindergarten I worked at, there was a case and things like that. So I'm not sure what what's going to come.
And for me personally, as a business owner, I was very concerned in the beginning about what sort of toll to strike and any communication that I was doing, whether it's on social media or the newsletters and stuff, if it's a good time to be even talking something like karmas, if that's the right thing to do or not. And I think I'm falling back into that a little bit at the moment. And I'm just questioning what what the new way of operating is going to be or can be or how one can be sensitive and yet not sort of fall into a vacuum.
It totally makes sense. And I think there's so many kind of philosophers and social people out there talking about this, this idea of like, do we just freeze and is it OK to freeze? And then what good will that do? And what about, you know, if you are a brand like I mean, I think a big part of it is connection. And you've talked about that a lot. And that's a huge part of your business as well. And I know that from working with you and buying from your business myself. But I guess, yeah, I would say to anyone that's listening or to you even that just trying to find the points of connection. And of course, some of those will be related to products that you sell. I mean, one of them that will come out at the minute is your cards that you recently put out. And the whole idea of hand writing something at the moment is a is a beautiful way to connect, especially when we're forced into so much digital this year, more than we've ever had to like so many screens being open all the time.
But you mentioned in what you've just said about being a commercial brand and commerce and e-commerce. And that leads me to ask you, what is in your in your words, I guess people that have just heard a little bit about Indian Goods Co.. coming from me, but how do you describe it and how do you describe the business? And also I say Indian goods, Indian Goods Co.?
I know. I know. I take full ownership. But that I guess I just say Indian Goods Co.. because I know that it's a sort of a shifang, but either way is totally OK. I don't think there's any. Not right away with that.
You're always so nice. I will. I will. I will correct myself. And so Indian Goods Co...
What, what is it. How would you describe it?
I describe Indian Goods Co. as a design label that presents contemporary design from India, and so I design aesthetic is very firmly inspired and influenced by all of these rich handicraft traditions that India has and that have sort of been a part of Indian culture for centuries and translating those into a design language are objects, really that are part of everyday living that you can use everyday, that are beautiful, that are very functional as well, and that sort of translate that timelessness of the traditional handicrafts into a timelessness of being part of your life for years to come, because maybe the materials are long lasting or the design is such that it's not something you're going to get tired of looking at in a certain time frame. But another important aspect of the business is also ethical, is production and ethical production and trying to present objects that are beautiful, that are useful and that are ethical.
So you are originally from India and you're now based and have been for a while, if I'm correct, in in Germany, I would love to know, like, how did you choose Germany to live in? And secondly, did you start Indian Goods Co. as soon as you got there? Did you start it before you got there? Like, how did you how did you come to be in Germany with Indian Goods Co. as a business?
I hear the question in your voice, because a lot of people are always confused when I say I live in Germany because for the longest time it hasn't been the most traditional choice for someone that comes maybe for more English speaking region. So Germany was very unplanned. And it happened because many, many years ago I met a young German man who was doing a student exchange program in Bangalore, India, where I was living. And that was right before I moved to London for two years to finish my bachelor's degree. And so we had a long distance relationship for that time. I visited Germany many times, and as I was coming to the end of my degree, I thought it could be interesting to sort of explore living in the country. And so I got an internship and I moved in 2006, which was actually a lovely time to work because I moved back in the middle of the world. Germany was hosting the World Football Championships. And so it was it was a kind of a spirit, very unlike, I think, everyday German life.
And so and and that was my side here. And since I had an Indian passport at the time, I was slightly restricted in in the options I had work-wise. So I had to be employed full time for a while. And so until 2012, that's what I did. I was working as a digital art director at an agency and I'm doing that sort of full time. And on the side I, I realised looking back, I always had something small that involved products or more tangible form of design rather than just the digital. And in 2012 the restrictions were lessened a little bit. And so I quit my job and I started working as a freelancer, doing exactly the same thing.
But I had a lot more flexibility with my time. So I was working four days a week and that's when I sort of started thinking about starting what became Indian Goods Co.. And at that time, it was just a very ephemeral idea about sort of trying to bring this vision that I had for certain Indian aesthetic to Germany. And I didn't know how and I didn't know in what form, but I just knew that I'd like to explore it. And having the time and the freedom of working freelance allowed me to sort of get started on that process. But it took me another two years before this company formally launched. So my journey has been a very long one.
I feel like you need these things to kind of have time to kind of digest in you and to think about in new ways and different ways before it launches properly, I guess. I mean, I love that story as well. And that you've kind of kept it in the back of your mind and then you got cracking on it later on. But one of the things that we've talked about previously to this conversation is that one of the reasons you started the business was to help people understand a different type of Indian aesthetic or to move away from these kind of cliché versions of what Indian style or Indian goods or these stereotypes. I would love to know why was that? Obviously, it's important, but why was it so important to you that you wanted to make it actual business out of it? And then how did you begin, I guess, coming from India? Was it was it very easy for you to just be like, oh, my God, that's a stereotype. You know, that is not how it is back home? Or was it it was it sort of just going up against people that were like, well, that's not Indian, it is actually Indian culture. I'd love to know kind of a bit more about that.
And so as we spoke earlier, I grew up in India and I think being in Germany, I was really surprised at the narrative that I was seeing about what India, Indian culture and design was. And so people had this and still, to a large extent have a very, I would say a very one sided perspective. They have it because that's what's being presented to them. You got to eat in Frankfurt today and almost all the Indian restaurants look the same to serving the same food. And, you know, and if you're coming from India, you know, that that could be one part of it. But there's so many other different narratives that are out there and that are so vibrant, changing so often. Every time I go back to India, every single year, there's there's so much newness to experience. And I guess I always identify so much with that, that seeing this other narrative being the sole narrative was a bit confusing and also wounding. And I had there's so much explanations about people. People were surprised a few years ago about the fact that I grew up pretty much vegetarian. It just little things like that. Or as you mentioned earlier, is that Indian design and is that from India? And so all of these things came together.
And another aspect was that India has always been such a big hub for manufacturing. So many large Western brands go to India and have beautiful products produced. They're using materials that are Indian are techniques that are Indian. And yet no one would guess that these products have their origin in India simply because of the design of them. And so that was another thing that I found very interesting. As you said earlier, what is Indian design? And I just wanted to try and see what my own answer to that was. And that was sort of the start of the journey with Indian Goods Co. to challenge cliches and at the same time to analyse what what my response to them could be at all.
So how did you do that? I mean, India is such a huge company, I mean, a company like a huge country. And so, you know, I would love to go. I've actually been invited to three Indian wedding to be a bridesmaid in all of them. And I wish to what I've been able to go. But each time I had things come up, like I was pregnant, about to give birth or other things, and my in-laws are from India and born and raised there. And that came out to Australia in the 70s, I think. So it is such from even from talking to them, you know, they'll be like, oh, that's northern India. That's Southern Indian Ocean is from that pattern. It's like it's like the 50 states of the US as well, like or like Europe or something. But in one country, there's so many different elements. So how did you start to unpack, you know, what is Indian design when there's so many things going on? And like you say, there's always newness and everything else.
I think you hit the nail on the head exactly, because what I tried to describe India here in this European context, I always say India is a political construct more than anything, because just try to imagine Europe as a country and then try to say that's a European thing, because you may have certain elements that are European are, in this case, Indian, but otherwise it is just a gigantic concept. And I don't even believe to begin that my tiny perspective on it is in any way all encompassing. And that's another thing. Indian Goods Co. is a very personal and private perspective. And I'm just hoping to share what I find the aspects of Indian design or culture that I find interesting.
So, just so incredible. I love your response to that question. The next thing I guess I would love to ask you then, is being from India and and growing up there, what was your upbringing like, you know, with your parents, small business owners, where they into design and the creative sectors like how do you think your upbringing influenced? You obviously influenced what you sell and the whole company, but like how you got into business as a person, like, is that something that you would credit your upbringing to? Do you feel like your parents were small business owners or very open to you becoming that?
And I would say I had a fairly conventional sort of middle class upbringing in India, my mother for the longest time, she raised us. She was a full time mom and house maker. And my father, he retired a few years ago. He was a pilot. He started in the Indian Air Force and then was a test pilot, and then he moved into commercial aviation. So there wasn't any direct sort of small business influence in the family. My mother's father, who sadly died a year before I was born, from the stories I hear of him, he was a huge entrepreneur and someone that greatly and achieved almost everything that he did at. And so sometimes I wonder if there's some connection there. And that's definitely what I want to explore. But I definitely want to learn more about him as a person. But in our little family of five, I have a younger brother and sister who are twins. We didn't have any real exposure to typical entrepreneurship, I'd say, what was what maybe made us a little bit different from other families, it was that we moved fairly often because of my father's work.
So every few years we just packed up home and moved somewhere fairly far away and fairly different from where we've been. And I'm looking back, I see that one thing my parents did very quickly was to sort of set up a home so that a house looked the same everywhere, mostly. And I think that was meant to give us a sense of constancy with this change. My parents always laid a lot of emphasis on aesthetics and our house was always nicely decorated. They often had furniture made for us, which may sound very fancy, but it's pretty regular in India. And so we either had to kind of make up things. I had a furniture develop and do something and the designs they picked up. Now, when I look back as well, it's all quite minimal and most Scandinavian influenced and Indian influenced, less heavy and less dark wood and things like that. And so and my mother was a very creative person. So even even if she didn't pursue that formally, she definitely always had a beautiful home for us. And she laid a lot of emphasis on how we ate and how views were presented. And our birthday cakes were always a huge production. My father always really decorated a house for birthday parties, and so they put a lot of attention to such detail definitely.
And I can trace back. This probably had a huge influence on me as well, because I can remember always wanting to make and create from when I was really young. That wasn't something that was really that I had a chance to express in our education system, which was fairly rigid and academic focused. And so I think for a long time from middle school onwards, probably there wasn't any time to indulge that sort of creativity because the focus was very academic. And it was only after I started finish school that I could revisit that. But at home there weren't restrictions on that. And my parents never sort of thrust any direction on us, I mean, we expected to do well at school, but I was given the freedom after I finished to explore my own way. And I guess that has helped because I didn't have too many preconceived notions of what was what I could or could not be. And I and so I think that's really helped me to maybe just try to go down my own path and make the mistakes that I have and just try to explore my own way.
Hmm. Oh, my goodness. There's so much in that. And it's funny that, you know, I feel like every time I work with someone, I should ask them this question, not just on podcast, because I know from from what you've just said, I'm like, oh, so many things make sense. Like, a lot of the products that you stock are very minimal and beautiful. And, you know, like you mentioned, that your mother got these things made. And it wasn't necessarily a particular trend of right now. It was stuff that could last, you know, a long time and that kind of classic cool style. And I think that's exactly you like every time I saw you, I was like, oh, my God, she just looks so cool but cool in a very effortless, understated, like you do even tonight. If you come from it's like, oh, cool jumper and cool glasses, you just have this style about you that's just that very effortless, understated and what you've just talked about. My goodness, it makes sense. And also the whole idea that you create for the home, like you create a lot of products when you stock products that the home and you talk about food and you put food on your blog and beautiful presentation of food and using like Indian spices and herbs and different kinds of things in a different way. So gosh, so much of that makes sense.
In line with that. And also this makes sense because of what you just said. But part of what I love about what you do with Indian Goods Co. is that you have this really genuine considered approach to everything that you sell. You're not someone who's like, Oh, I've got a shop I need to, you know, fill it with all of this kind of crap like or I need to have kind of this the good parts. And then I need to have these pieces over here that, you know, aren't necessarily as considered. You're completely the opposite to that. You really spend time finding the right labels to stock in the right products and really researching them. How do you balance that with also needing to hit certain margins for the business to work? I know in some other people that I've worked with, you know, they've definitely got their products that perhaps aren't always hitting every single thing on the checklist, but they're like, oh, they're the high profit margin ones. And so then I can have these other ones over here that don't have as high a profit margins. So what advice firstly, how do you balance that? And then secondly, what advice would you give to others who also want to support makers and have it all be ethical and have sustainable products, but need to make money as well? And I know that those two things can co-exist, but sometimes when you're starting out, you know, it can be hard to find that balance.
That's a pretty interesting question and something that I've been working to for a long time, and I mean, it's also something we discussed in our coaching sessions, and you were also able to give me a lot of clarity. Show me actually present me with a couple of tools that also really helped. I think there have been a few aspects to that question.
And first of all, thank you very much for all of the very nice things that you've said about the products that we stock. I've been very lucky to have found all of these amazing makers and design labels that wanted to work with someone who literally just wrote them an email with a one paragraph explanation of what I had in mind. I didn't even have a website to show for it. I just had a name and a concept.
And so many of them just jumped on board. And the people that I mean, it's incredible. I've understood what the word passion actually means when you want to set up a business that's ethical as well, because doing business is hard enough. And then adding the ethical factor to it is that's a whole ballgame in itself. And you have to really want to do it to be able to do it authentically. So finding products was all about finding these amazing designers and then trying to curate what they had to match the vision that I wanted to bring to life.
One thing that I've had to teach myself, and you've been instrumental in that as well, is to start becoming more of a numbers person to literally I'm not an excel fan, but I'm a Numbers fan, which is this program that Apple has that is for me, it's super easy to use and it's also very visually much, much nicer than Excel. And so I've really started to to build tables and to plug numbers in to because I want I mean, I'm not a very numbers oriented person to begin with in any aspect of my life. But this exercise has really taught me and it's clarified it's taken something that's very creative and broken it down into something that's very logical. And so it's easy when I have an idea sometimes to just put it in and to see what the end result of that would be.
And also from a customer perspective, to understand, you know, what a customer would be, how a customer would look at a product and how I'm looking at it and try to merge those through to this numbers game as well. One thing that I've done a lot of, it was very, very hard for me in the beginning, because the first time someone said to me, oh, but this is made in India, why is it so expensive? The first time I heard that, it was like a personal insult and I knew it wasn’t. But it felt exactly like that. And I've had to one thing I've really worked on in the last few years is, is talking about the stories behind the products, because I think so many people want to be part of a more ethical and fair marketplace.
And that comes with a lot of. Except I mean, that that comes with a price tag of its own and not just the price tag in terms of money, but a price tag. It comes in terms of understanding. You need to be able to understand what it means for someone thousands of kilometres away to pay their workers a decent amount of money that they can have access to health care with and educate their children with and things like that. So anything you buy, it actually breaks down into that kind of granularity.
And everyone doesn't have the time and patience to hear that. Part of my journey has been to be able to try to explain carefully and quickly what it means when a tea towel is handwoven or towel is handwoven because that takes two weeks to make. So sometimes those kind of numbers help people to understand tangibly what that is. And it's not for everyone. And I understand that, too. And it's just been interesting having this dialogue with myself and with others to say that for any business to exist, it involves so many different components. What is the products of what is my choice? And one is my also understanding what sort of products to put together to have a portfolio that makes sense. And I feel like one part of my responsibility as well as this is educating potential customers as to, you know, the beauty and the effort that goes into each product and hoping that it's worth it for them.
Yes. And also, I think, like I love what you said, because so many people can have this whole like, “Oh, I'm going to be ethical and I'm going to be sustainable.” And then what they don't have is, like you said, they don't have that solid understanding of, well, if I'm going to do that and if I'm committing to doing that, then I also need to be committing to every single point of the supply chain being ethical, not just, “Oh, well, I'm happy to pay this much, but I'm just going to forget the first kind of third of the supply chain with somebody is not getting paid the right amount or they're in horrible conditions or, you know, working 24/7 for a very small amount of money.” Like, it's it's really interesting. And especially that is when he said before when people say, oh, it's made in India. And I can imagine that that would be a horrible insult, you know, because we've kind of got this economy is like, you know, you've got some brands that, like it's made in India. It's ethical and it's awesome. And it's almost like, oh, that's OK. But then other things you like, it's made in India and and yeah, I mean, it's horrible for somebody to say why it's so expensive.
But it's understandable simply because I've tried to explain I've tried to explore this in my head of finger pointing at all. But when very, very large brands and I'm hesitant to mention any but like animal care and stuff, and they're also moving now quite heavily into like hallway's when they start talking about producing something ethically and then or they you know, they say it's a sustainable product and then their price tags are so low. I'm not saying that this that that the supply chain isn't ethical, but the point is that when you're such a giant market player, you have such huge influence. And then if people said, I don't know, I'm not I don't know if this is happening, but I can imagine that it's a factor when such numbers come into play. And then you're looking at smaller brands that have maybe higher price tags, then it's probably it makes sense. You're probably asking yourself in your head, yes, why? And the point is, I don't know how they put such price tags on products, because I cannot, for the life of me, understand how it's happening because another thing about India that very few people know about, it's actually a very expensive country. Simply because we have very little access to the kind of social systems that are probably more prevalent in Europe and things like that.
You know, everything is privately paid for from school to especially if you want something decent – school, health and things like that. So it's even more important that people and a fair wage there, because if it isn't the case, then, you know, always getting cut from, you know, you absolutely, definitely do not have a decent standard of living. And you'll never be able to offer your children any sort of perspective that because you can't afford a good school for them or a decent school even and things like that. It’s something that will take changing, because this is when something when a narrative becomes so firmly implanted for so many reasons, it takes time to change that. And I'm happy that people are even interested in engaging in that conversation. And so I'm excited to see what the next steps are.
Oh, my goodness. Yes. Yes, so am I. And to see people really commit to if I'm going to be ethical and I'm going to be sustainable, then I'm really committing to that. And yeah, I wonder, too, sometimes with these numbers and I know they have really high you know, they don't have this like minimum order quantity. Those companies can be purchasing tens of thousands of units of one particular product range. But still, it's really crazy. But I would love to know, kind of going back to what you said before about, you know, I just sent an email with this one paragraph because you have worked, you know, for a long time, UX designer, a user experience designer and. Yeah, but how did you create a retail business where you like. Well, mean did you have any kind of excuse me experience in retail or like how did you like it. It's amazing that they came on board and you had this idea in an email. But how did you then translate it into “OK, I know. Like my wholesale prices or I know you know what, I'll need to buy it for what the profit will be or even just how to merchandise an online store.“
I knew nothing, and if I look back, I'm just I really just shake my head. My only idea was this design aesthetic that I wanted to present. And at that time, when I actively started thinking about Indian Goods Co, it was 2014. And I had already been living outside of India for 10 years. And so whilst I was there, every single time was basically spent with friends and family. I had no connection to to local designers or to business. And I wasn't following any Indian design blogs or anything. I was really disconnected from that aspect of India.
And so I think step zero was first to simply try to understand what was happening there, who existed in this space. And just it was very basic. I just tried to find Indian design blogs and. And this was also pre-Instagram, I think, at least for me, and so it was a very analog for a while and then I started finding it. Then I slowly started falling down this rabbit hole. And one one creative thing led to the next and the next. And I slowly started building up a list in Google sheets of designs that I found really interesting. And then I made two columns, which was, have you sent them the email? The second column was that they reply positively. And so I literally drafted this email and sent it out and that made the first column go green. And then if someone replied positively, the second column got green. And I was so excited. But there were a couple of reds but for the most part, looking back, I am shocked that so many prominent designers even agreed to be a part of this without being overly sceptical and things like that. I mean, they were so open and it took me a while before I could meet most of them in person.
The first year or two I was on email basis with most of them and. And that was and I guess every little, yes, was just. Another step forward, it was like, OK, so it's not a completely unrealistic idea or, “OK, someone else sort of gets it and that means maybe there's a transference.” It literally went like that. I'd have to say. I don't have any experience of retail. I remember so clearly the first concept stores that I had a chance to visit when I was younger and India and the setting and the product and this way of looking at what design could be and. The sort of wow factor that had for me and I think. That's all that I wanted to recreate, I just wanted to try to have this collection of products that would make. People that would love make people happy to look at that would actually make everyday life a little bit better because of either how they looked at how they functioned or where they came from, things like that really. It was very naive.
No, I love one of the things I've talked about is sort of a sense of joy that comes from, you know, your products. But also I feel like you finding those products, there's a sense of joy and then there's a sense of joy of the designer being like, oh, my goodness, I've got this opportunity to sell my products into Germany and into a different market maybe, or and more expanding into various sectors. But I love that you had the Google sheet. I love that you were like, I'm literally just going to work for the. That's like, oh, my gosh. Something I definitely think people can learn from because sometimes it's just taking it to a really simple thing like that, like let's just make a list and then let's make a column that I contacted them and make another column, you know, like it doesn't need to be, oh my gosh, I need to create the best thing ever just to get started, really. I love what you just said. It's very simple, but very effective. So, yes, you can.
One element that I wanted to talk about and that we touched on at the very start when we talk about connection is that, you know, you have your own product line. And I think, you know, like I don't know how many product lines you have or if it's one or I know you were looking last year at some other stuff that looked incredible when we were on Zoom calls and you showed me like the prototype. And I was like, oh, my gosh, that looks so good. But can you talk us through how you go from thinking, you know, maybe I should stock some of my own stuff to actually deciding, “OK, well, what sort of products do I want to design? And then how do I go about finding markets for them?” And can you talk us through what's worked and maybe some of the obstacles? Because I know that many retailers get to the point where they're stocking, you know, everybody else's stuff and they're like, you know what, I'm going to I'm going to make my own t shirts or I'm going to make my own ceramics. So I'm going to make something else that's my product line. And I think that can also be a difficult thing because they've got people that have these wholesale accounts and you don't want to step on anybody's toes creating your own product. But, you know, like how you came to that decision and then how you actually made it into something that actually could be sold.
So I think at the back of my head, I've always had this wish to have to make an collection company, a collection of books that also reflect my design aesthetic. So I sort of had this idea, the back of my head, that someday it would be nice to set up manufacturing my own products. Yet that's a whole different ball game. And so that got pushed to the side until sort of last year. And the first product I had an idea for was and that has now become the first product that we launched officially is a set of greeting cards. And I guess that was born from so many things that I wanted to buy a nice card for a friend's birthday. And it was I found something nice. And it's not like they aren't nice greeting cards out there. A lot of them, you know, they're nice, but people don't keep them after they're done because maybe the graphics are to trendy or it's to birthday or things like that. And so I thought it could maybe be nice to have a greeting card that is a greeting card that encourages you to send some send or give someone something beautiful. That's but that's beautiful enough and that it can be kept as a piece of art. So that was sort of my inspiration. And I carried that in my head for a while. And I knew that I wasn't going to be the person designing it. And the shop, I had sort of bumped into these two extremely talented designers in Mumbai. And so I reached out to Zinat because I wanted to know if she'd be interested in in doing the cards with me. And we roped in a another designer that she works with regularly and an illustrator who I found fabulous, whose name is Nargiz. And they were both so open. And so we just had a couple of calls discussing my idea, which was exactly as I just described. It was very open. I just wanted greeting cards that could also be kept this art and that I also, you know, sort of timeless and that celebrated connection and celebration.
And then they just they were totally open to the idea and they went off and then they came back with a few initial ideas and we just sort of took it from there. And they're experts in this area. And so they took over so much stuff and we just went back and forth over almost a year. I was in India in February, which now feels like years ago, and we met to discuss things like paper and printing colours and things like that. And then it was done and actually the cards reached me right before India and Germany went into shut down, which was also incredible and somewhat an emblem of time passed, but with the other products that were in development as well. I have to say, I've been so shocked by the generosity of people because for each idea that I've had, I've sort of had an automatic association with a particular designer that I feel could best execute the vision I have and almost everyone has said yes, and that really surprises me, this generosity to speak with someone about something they have absolutely no experience about and. That's and I think this is one thing that I've had to personally push myself a lot with over the last three years to learn how to ask for things. Be it help support a bit, would you like to collaborate with me on something?
And that's one of the things I'm also most grateful for, having led because the response has been incredible. I would never have been able to reach where I am today without the incredible support and generosity I've encountered from so many different people. And so back to your question about how to how things have gone from concept to execution, I would say it's been so much about finding such incredible collaborators and. And just and literally just taking it one small step at a time, because somehow the first step led to the second and the third and I'd say for me, it's sort of brings a little bit of clarity with it because of a project in entirety is so overwhelming and most times that overwhelmed us so much that you just almost want to stop, even though, you know, it could be something wonderful. And so I think just breaking things down and asking for support or for input, those are things that have really helped me to sort of take this production process further, because it is so complex and it is definitely something that cannot be undertaken alone.
Oh my goodness, there's so many good pieces of, like, wisdom in there. And I would definitely link to these cards in the shownotes. And so what does Tohfa mean?
So the title so far was also thought of by Zinat. So just briefly, to describe the cards, they have an illustration on them and the illustration is over printed with a word or two. And the calligraphy comes from a Zinat who's taught herself or do in order to be able to do calligraphy. She does beautiful work in the space and she gave each scene a title or mood, and that's what that would what stands for. She also came up with the with the title of the project, which is so far, because a Tohfa often means gift. And it's the kind of gift that you take when you go to a celebration. You take a small thing with you to give the horse and the people celebrating the occasion. A gift that is called a Tohfa and that's why she picked the name she suggested the name for for a set of cards and it felt like it just fit perfectly. And so that's where it comes from. Really, it's it's a beautiful old word. And I had absolutely no familiarity with up until this point, but just the words that she picked to describe each of the scenes on the cards. And they're so poetic and so, so beautiful. And also the scenes themselves, they they're not your typical everyday sort of things. And you can really lose yourself in them. And I love how personal that they made this project. They really explored an aspect of a city they love in great detail and and really wanted to bring that to the world. And so it's that little Tohfa, in a sense to us.
Oh, so beautiful. But they're just beautiful. And I I'm sure actually, especially with India at the moment, with Covid, which I should ask, I hope your family are all OK.
And thank you very much for asking. They are fine. Well, I think in the larger scheme of things, because India has been hit quite badly. Everyone I know has been lucky enough to stay safe and to stay protected in all senses of the word, and so I'm really grateful for that.
And I think I would imagine that it's interesting when you said before that these cards came just before, you know, Germany went into lockdown and in the need to lock down because the scenes that they depict are kind of, you know, markets and places where it's bustling and busy. And I imagine that that is quite different now.
Absolutely, I was exactly in that marketplace that they depict because I wanted to see it for myself, I had been there in February and it just I can't even imagine what it's like now and the things that was so normal a while ago. I wonder what, because in India is a crowded place. The thing you see everywhere is a lot of people. And I'm just and when I saw because in contrast to Germany, we had a shutdown here, but people were still not restricted in their movements. India was a very, very strict lockdown. And when I saw photos of streets and of public places as spaces there, it was unrecognisable because it didn't matter what time of day or night you went out. Somewhere in India, that was always pretty much something happening. And to see things in that sad state of stillness, it was it was different. And it was also, I don't know, shocking. So I'm not sure when I can be there next because travel is so restricted at the moment, but I would really like to go sooner than later and just see, as you said, what the impact has been on spaces like the ones that have been depicted in the cards.
Oh, gosh, yeah. I'm really grateful that you've created these cards. And I have ordered some. And I think they're just so, so beautiful. So with your business, you know, you've talked about that it was an idea for a long time. And I'm sure you talk to people about it, even if they were, you know, very close friends or family or loved ones. What do you think has helped you most with building your business, like you mentioned before, learning over the last few years to be able to ask? And I think that is a huge, huge, huge learning opportunity that everybody needs to go through at some point in your business. At some point you'll come to, OK, I need to transition or I need to level up or I need to do something else and I just can't do it all by myself. So that is a huge one. So, like, hats off to you for learning it, you know, early on. But what would you say has helped you with your business? Do you have mentors or courses or books or anything that you'd recommend to people listening to this?
All of those things, actually, because I think at some point I realised that in order to be a business owner, I really had to look at myself and see all of the aspects of myself that I needed to question a lot about myself and things, like my business knowledge, non-existent and other aspects find asking for help difficult and things like that, and then finding ways to get around that. Because when you work for someone else, are you working in a company? I think someone else sort of has a little bit more onus on your progression. And being a business owner and a freelancer means you have to take that responsibility on yourself. And I've had some fabulous business coaches, you included, have completely changed my perspective and not just in a business, I mean, most definitely in a business sense, but not just in that way, because I've just I was just introduced to so many concepts that completely blew my mind away and that have really improved the quality of my life as well as a result. So I'm so grateful for that. And having the resources to come in contact with such incredible people as well. And to you have also built up a small, incredible collection of profit. First was something I read at the beginning of this year added, and it was game changing. And it was also very embarrassing to me how game changing it was. I totally recommend it to anyone who has questions about numbers or struggles with numbers from your reading list. I also have the one thing missing and the visual MBA, another two books that I find incredibly helpful and that I keep dipping into all the time.
Other than that, I would say blogs, I love reading, and I'm just so grateful that there are so many resources out there that so many intelligent, creative people put out there and that you can access because I've had to learn. I write, I do almost everything for the shop. And so writing text is part of that, whether for the blog articles or writing for products. And I realised that writing was just was made for essay writing and that that doesn't cut it. And so learning how to write well, I remember reading an article from Tim Ferriss who's another blog I used to follow a lot, and he had an interview with, Oh, now this is embarrassing, the creator of Dilbert, whose last name I forget. But he I read an interview with him and he described how he writes, and I was just blown away with that. And that's something I try to keep in my mind every time I write. And so it's just been this, you know, it's I'm just incredibly grateful for all of the people that put time and energy into creating amazing resources for people. And for me personally, it's sort of like a continual learning process, which sounds with maybe sounds exhausting, but it isn't actually, because it's just also in so many ways is just powering.
I totally agree and I thank you for your feedback and so I am all like I love how you're saying from your reading list because I do I recommend books a lot to people because I just think there's so much gold in books and you know, in comparison to say a course or, or even working with a business coach, a book is relatively affordable for everybody or even, you know, to go to the library or to borrow it. So I just think books are incredible and I can do with those choices, especially I love The Visual MBA. My husband actually picked that up for me as a he had gone for a trip and then he was coming back and he he gave me that as a sort of a gift. And I just was blown away. I was like, this is amazing, especially for creative people who, you know, when you see something visually like a framework or a diagram, it's like, oh, OK, it all makes sense now. So I actually even referenced The Visual MBA in my own book as well. I just love it.
And coming back to your book, that's a book that I'm waiting to get my hands on. I need to check again because it was only available for pre-order or not even pre order, I think, in Germany. And now I need to get my jump on that because I am really looking forward to that. And I forgot to mention, I definitely listen to your podcast as well, and I find them extremely interesting and some really great people
Including yourself and the way people listening is one of those people. Thank you. Thank you. You're very kind. What would you have done differently if you were starting out now? So if you could talk to a younger bachelor, what would you say to her when she's starting out, like the things that you like? Well, that was a complete waste of time or or is everything you wouldn't change a thing or what would be kind of your answer to that?
I'm going to say this, even though I think it's quite embarrassing, but I think I would take it more seriously in the sense that I think Indian Goods Co. was and continues to be a very personal sort of business project because it's a very direct translation of my aesthetics, my ethics and my values into something physical and tangible, and so in the beginning I was I think I was a bit nervous about being so out there with what I saw as myself, and so I really didn't I played it down so much for a long time and I don't think I gave myself that validation to build it into a full time, into a business, into a proper business until a couple of years ago. And so that's something I would like to do differently.
And also to have learnt this art of asking, I think some processes would have done some things would have just worked faster, or I could have cleared my doubts quicker if I had had the courage really to just ask people for opinions, for support for. Anything really even to just listen to me talking about what I was afraid of, and that's been a process and I'm grateful to have made some progress in those areas. But, yeah, those are the things I think I would do a little bit differently.
Oh, so, so brilliant. I just love that whole idea about asking. I just really think, you know, more people need to do it in all parts of life, not just in all parts of life, especially, I don't know, just so many things. I think even being a mum of two young children and one, you know, I was just telling you before going on, but we did 15 months without him sleeping through the night. You know, once maybe one time he did. And it was just this relentless oh, you know, that's what motherhood is or that's what parenting is or like. And you just think, no, I should have should have reached out to people earlier.
But, you know, we all we all need to learn how to ask in all areas of our life. So I think that's a fantastic reminder. Thank you. And so you mentioned that you had you didn't have a background in retail and you have an online store. And of course, we'll link to that in the show notes is it's just Indian Goods Co .And so what I guess you've had to learn technology kind of tools for that. And obviously you've had your background being a UX designer, but are there technical, you know, other tools or platforms that you just could not live without when it comes to your business?
I think no one on that list is probably Trello. I yeah, I think without Trello my life would I would disintegrate into a very anxious mess. But we have to plan to just plan my week and my my thoughts, because I think I sometimes and I am sure this happens to people with their own businesses or projects or creative people all the time. You just have so many ideas all the time. And then sometimes it's hard to tprioritise and Trello really, really helps me with both just putting things down so that I have them somewhere for a later date and to they to plan my my weeks and months on both micro and macro level. I absolutely love it. And a tool like this is free is just it blows my mind as well. Again, generosity and other practical tools that I use that really help me save time Planoly is one of them. I think you introduced me to it as well, which I use a lot to, to plan my Instagram feed and my Facebook feeds. Again, a great tool and a beautiful software that makes things easy. Social media isn't something I enjoy doing very much. I'm very good at, but only has really helped with that. And then a couple of just everyday office tools, I'd say keynote and numbers, which are Apple program versions of Microsoft PowerPoint and Excel, and they're so powerful and they're so simple to use. And I use them all the time to either numbers to build my stock list and my my standing sheets. And I use Kinnard for everything from creating a short board. Are you putting out ideas for mood boards to develop a new product? And it's just crazy how having tools that are easy to use can really, really speed your processes up. Um, and other than that, I mean, even the Google Suite is incredible for working collaboratively with people like sheets and docs and stuff. Google Suite is just a game changer. I mean when you knew how things used to be even just five or six years ago and you see how technology has really enabled working remotely and working collaboratively, it's it's it's mind boggling, really.
And so I would love like I agree with all of this, everything that you've just said and it goes with your whole philosophy of like learning and working with people collaboratively. What do you think that you are most proud of from owning and running Indian Goods Co.? Like what? What do I mean? I can I can imagine of ten, twelve things instantly that I would think that you would be proud of. But from you, what do you think you're most proud of around your business?
This is a very difficult question. I think I'd reply with I think I'm proud of my resilience and and what this is something I forgot to mention earlier in your question with mentors. But one person that I've used as a mentor, even though I've never met her personally over the last many years, is Marie Forleo. And she I find her platforms and her in the information that she has for business owners. Incredible. And one thing she keeps saying is that everything can be figured out. And and I think that's actually true. And so I'm sort of a little proud of myself for trying to have a figure out of the mindset because. That's really been crucial in getting to the stage, and so, yeah, I think those two things really.
Well, I can I can sense how and how you're like, oh, gosh, that, you know, like you're so humble and I know a lot, but yeah, I think you should be incredibly proud even of having these conversations with people that are saying, you know, why should I pay this or or is that really Indian design or what is? I think you're expanding so many people's idea of the world. And I think the more that we can all learn about each other's origins and and way of life and culture, just the better the whole world is going to be.
And so what is next with you for you? And where can people connect with you? Of course, we'll put all of this in the show notes. Is it is it best for people to contact you on Instagram if, say, they've listened to this and like, oh, my gosh, I have to talk to you because this really resonated with me. Where can people connect with you best? And what's next for Indian Goods Co.?
And I would love to hear from people. Instagram and email at probably the very best for me, so I'd love for anyone who has any questions or anything to say to to use either one of those channels. On Instagram, it's @indiangoodscompany and so on. And our email is I'm hi@indiangoodscompany.com. And yeah, I would absolutely love to hear what anyone has to say. And I'm always so grateful when people reach out and just and share an opinion or thought that that especially in these times where everything can feel so isolating. It's really wonderful to have these conversations, these little. “Hi, how are you?” Touch points.
What's next for us? Well, their products and new products and collections in the pipeline that are being developed. I'm really excited to see how those come out. Things are a little slow at the moment because. India has been so hard hit and production and just life there isn't back to normal yet. So I and this has also been a wake up for me about how interconnected our global world is, because as you mentioned earlier, you ordered the Tohfa cards. And when I wanted to put a stamp on them, I realised that Germany isn't shipping to Australia at the moment, which is so unthinkable. But this is the impact a pandemic has apparently on each of us, and it's quite shocking.
So I'm just excited to see how our new products come along. And I'm searching for a space in Frankfurt that I could use as a physical retail store. I haven't had much luck with that yet, but I'm really optimistic and I'm hoping that something comes along soon so that I'll also have the chance to meet with people more frequently in person rather than just digitally or at pop-up events. Mm hmm. And yeah. That's kind of the way forward.
And so, yeah, definitely go over and check out @indiangoodscompany, all one word on Instagram, because you can find a whole lot of information about the company, about Vatsala. You can find recipes on there for amazing Indian foods and things to cook. And you can find footage from times in India in the process for some of your products. It's just it's just beautiful. Thank you so much for coming on and chatting with me and and for everything. You're just such a warm, lovely soul and it's always lovely to talk to you, that's all.
Thank you so much for taking the time for me, Fiona, and for all of us for the amazing ways you enrich the lives of very many business owners. Thank you very much for that. Thank you.
Thanks for listening to My Daily Business Coach podcast. If you want to get in touch, you can do that at mydailybusinesscoach.com or hit me up on Instagram at @mydailybusinesscoach.
About Indian Goods Co.
