Episode 490: How to run multiple businesses (without losing your mind)
Ever wondered how some business owners seem to do it all (and actually enjoy it)?
In today's episode, Fiona Killackey chats with Jacinta Connell, who runs a cafe, a catering business, works as a lawyer, AND hosts a radio show - all while keeping her sanity intact.
Jacinta shares the real story of how she went from working in cafes to owning them, and why she believes business doesn't have to look one way. Whether you're feeling stuck in your current business or dreaming of starting something new, this conversation will show you what's possible when you trust your gut and build real relationships along the way.
Here's what you'll learn:
Starting small: How Jacinta turned a coffee van side hustle into two thriving businesses
Making it work: The practical ways she manages multiple businesses (no, she doesn't have a perfect morning routine!)
Building community: Why real connections with customers and staff matter more than ever
Changing direction: When to stick with something and when it's okay to try something new
The reality of hospitality: What running a cafe business actually looks like post-COVID
Working flexibly: How to create a business that fits your life (instead of the other way around)
Connect and get in touch with My Daily Business
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Connect and get in touch with Jacinta Connell
Instagram: @cintconell
Business Instagram: @brightsidedeli
Business Instagram: @charlieandcoadelaide
Radio Instagram: @satalarmclock
LinkedIn: Jacinta Connell
Fiona Killackey: Do you love your life as a small business owner?
Let's be real.
Sometimes we just don't. It's my hope that this, the My Daily Business Podcast, helps you regain a little of that lost love through practical, actionable tips, tools and tactics, interviews with creative and curious small business owners, and in depth coaching episodes with me, your host, Fiona Killackey With more than 20 years experience in marketing, brand content and systems and having now helped thousands of small business owners, I know what it takes to build.
A business that you can be proud of and that actually aligns with your values, your beliefs, and your hopes for the future. So much of our daily life is spent working on and in the businesses and the brands that we are creating, and so it makes sense to actually love what you do.
So, let's get into this podcast and help you figure out how to love your business and your life on the Daily.
Fiona Killackey: Hello and welcome to episode 490 of the My Daily Business Podcast. Today, it's an interview episode, and honestly, this has been such an enjoyable chat to have, and I'm excited to share it with all of you.
Before we get stuck into that, I want to let you know that group coaching is open, and you can apply at mydailybusiness.com/groupcoaching. Also, people seem to not know, so I'm going to just reiterate it. We do have a scholarship position in there, and if that is applicable to you, you can find all the information at ah.mysdailybusiness.com/groupcoaching.
Then please apply—that is potentially getting you an entire year of coaching for absolutely nothing. And of course, if you have any questions around it, you can just email us at hello@mydailybusiness.com.
Alright, before we get stuck into this really engaging and fun interview, I want to acknowledge where I'm coming from and acknowledge the traditional owners and custodians of these lands, which for me is the Wawurong and Raundji people of the Kulin Nation. I pay my respects to their elders, past and present, and acknowledge that sovereignty has never been ceded.
Alright, let's get into today's interview episode. I receive DMs a lot on Instagram about this podcast, and honestly, I'm so incredibly appreciative of all of them. And if you've always listened to this podcast but never actually reached out, please reach out. Be a first-time caller, be a first-time DM'er.
Because today's guest, we connected through the DMs. She had listened to a particular episode and connected with me, and then had listened to another one a few months later. She connected again, we just started chatting, as people do. I got to know a bit more about her business journey and some other stuff that she had in her life.
I invited her onto the podcast, and it took a couple of months on my side, I must say, to get this to happen, but here it is.
In today's podcast, I'm talking with the wonderful Jacinta Connell, who has so many things going on. She is a cafe owner, a catering business owner, a lawyer, a radio host—so many different parts to who she is as a person and who she is in terms of her businesses and her work.
I love it because I think so many of us are, you know, to use the phrase, "multi-passionate", but have different ideas and different things that we want to do in life. And so I love that we're chatting to somebody who has multiple different businesses going on.
In today's podcast, we talk about how does she actually juggle it all? What sort of time management does she have? Does she have some perfect morning routine? Does she have more hours in the day than everyone else? But we also talk about how did she actually create a coffee business to start with? What did that look like? What did she learn from it?
When did she then open up a cafe? How did the catering business come about, and then what happens with the law? Like, where was that in all of it? We also talk about some other challenges that she's gone through in her personal life and how that impacted her in terms of how she showed up in business.
I think whether you are going through something yourself in your personal life, or if you are managing a team, it is so powerful what she shares. And it's something that I've been thinking about since we recorded this in terms of how can I show up like that for the people that work with me and also just for my clients, friends, and family.
So, there is absolutely so much in today's podcast. I will link to all of Jacinta's businesses and talk about them more in the outro for this. But for now, here it is, my interview with the absolutely incredible, engaging, insightful, and inspiring Jacinta Connell.
Welcome to the podcast, Jacinta. I'm really excited to have you on. It's been a long time coming. I always like to ask, how are you feeling about life right now?
Jacinta Connell: Right now, I am super calm. It's been, I think, 2024 was a year of a bit of change for me—both personal and professional. And right now, I feel really content with life. I feel really energised, really optimistic, really hopeful. I think 2025 is going to be a good year. So, yeah, you've brought me at a very good time.
Fiona Killackey: I love this. I am like feeling that energy too, and it's contagious. Ah, I hope people who are listening feel the same way—like, yeah, it's going to be a great year.
Jacinta Connell: Yeah.
Fiona Killackey: So we first connected on Instagram when you kindly reached out about this podcast and you'd listened to an episode. You have so many things going on, it's hard to just go, "Oh, you know, let's introduce your one business." Because you don’t just have one business, you have multiple things. You have hospitality, you work in law, and you're also on the radio.
Can you talk us through all the things and also, like, how do you make it all work?
Jacinta Connell: It's a bit of a house of cards. There's a few things going on. So, yes. My day-to-day, I run a cafe called Charlie and Co. I run a catering business called Brightside Deli, and the two are quite related, which is good. I'm also an in-house legal counsel for a cooperative research centre, which I love. I love my job so much, but that’s able to work flexibly, so I can oversee the cafes, oversee the catering business.
Then on weekends, just for fun, I do a radio show, which has been great. I'm learning a lot of skills, and yeah, I think you definitely come into your first show a little green, and there’s a lot that you learn from being in front of a microphone live. So, yeah, it just adds another string to my bow, I suppose.
Fiona Killackey: Do you have more hours than everyone else? Because I don’t know how, I mean, even if you were just doing one of those things—catering, for example. I’ve worked with a few caterers. It’s a lot of stuff. It’s stressful; it's trying to figure out all the things, let alone plus a cafe, plus legal stuff, plus a radio show every single week. Yeah. Do you—how do you get it done?
Jacinta Connell: I think this is the key to me feeling so calm this year. I feel like I’ve finally found my perfect roles and situations in terms of working because I’ve got an incredible amount of flexibility with all of my roles. I’ve got an amazing team of staff who run my cafes and my catering business, and I’ve got a lot of flexibility in my other workplace, which is so good because I don’t—I mean, I am absolutely not the poster girl for time management, I never have been.
But as long as I can have that flexibility, you can have the best of me at any given point in time. I’m not one for sitting at a desk all day saying, “Right, I’m clocking on now, I’m clocking off now,” and delivering certain outputs. I’m more of a “Right, I’m feeling like I’m going to be doing this right now.” I’ll go smash out a contract, or I’ll go draft a policy or something, and then at other times, I’ll sort of wake up at various hours and go, “You know what? I’ve got a great idea for the business,” and I’ll just scribble it down.
Yeah, that’s just kind of how it all works. There’s a lot of flexibility, and there’s a lot of just maximising my time. But I also, the caveat is, I don’t have children, so I honestly have all credibility to people who manage businesses or work with children because that’s a whole different ballgame. I looked after my brother’s two children for a week—a one-year-old and a four-year-old—and that was a lot. So, that’s just my life, and I love it. It brings me so much joy, and I just, when I’m best suited to be doing a particular type of work, that’s what I’ll do at that time. So, yeah, it seems to be working well.
Fiona Killackey: Oh my goodness. Firstly, what a great sister you are to give up a week with a one-year-old and a four-year-old. It’s not like you—I thought you would say overnight! Wow, okay. He is a lucky guy. I really love that idea of, “What do I feel like doing?” I do a lot of time blocking, and that’s worked really well for me, but there’s still, you know, Tuesdays and Thursdays. I’m still seeing clients all day, so I don’t necessarily have that whole “I can just wake up on a Tuesday, do whatever.” I mean, I love what I do, but I love that because I think that’s totally where people ideally want to end up—with how they’re feeling today.
Were you always interested in this whole business entrepreneur world? Like, to be able to run so many things and not feel completely overwhelmed by all of that? Was little Jacinta always entrepreneurial?
Jacinta Connell: Little Jacinta was a middle child, so I displayed a lot of the traits of being a middle child—starving for attention and things like that. But now, I would say I’m mostly—I was probably a pretty bold child, probably a bit of a risk-taker. From the beginning, I definitely kind of dabbled in those things. I wanted to start a holiday babysitting program for all the kids I babysat and things—I’ll never actually came to fruition, but there were probably some liability issues. At the time, I think it was about seven years old.
But yeah, I was really just sort of keen on—I was very creative from the get-go. I loved having a microphone in my hand. I was quite, yeah, quite loud, quite an out-there kind of kid. But I came from a family of lawyers and professionals, so honestly, entrepreneurship was not something I ever entertained as a career. Growing up, I just always kind of assumed that I would end up in a profession, and it was not— I mean, I didn’t really know anybody growing up who owned their own businesses. It was just not something that, yeah, I honestly never turned my mind to it.
The way it panned out was just a series of taking opportunities as they came to me. But yeah, it was certainly not something I ever set out to do. But I’ve always had a creative brain, and I think that kind of lends itself to that whole “doing things when I’m in a particular sort of mind frame,” because there tend to be quite a few different things going on in the brain at any given time. It’s just having little outlets and little side hustles that were always something I felt inclined to do. Certainly, when I did start practising law and was just a lawyer, I think I struggled with the day-to-day.
Jacinta Connell: It's a bit of a house of cards. There's a few things going on. So, yes. My day-to-day involves running a cafe called Charlie and Co. I also run a catering business called Brightside Deli, and the two are quite related, which is good. I'm also an in-house legal counsel for a cooperative research centre, which I love. I really enjoy my job, but the great part is that I can work flexibly. This flexibility allows me to oversee the cafes and the catering business.
And then, on weekends, just for fun, I do a radio show. It's been great; I'm learning a lot of skills. You definitely come into your first show a little green, and there's a lot that you learn from being in front of a microphone live. So, yeah, it just adds another string to my bow, I suppose.
Fiona Killackey: Do you have more hours than everyone else? Because I don't know how... I mean, even if you were just doing one of those things—catering, for example—I’ve worked with a few caterers, and it’s a lot of stuff. It’s stressful, figuring out all the things, let alone running a cafe, plus legal, plus a radio show every single week. How do you get it done?
Jacinta Connell: I think the key to me feeling so calm this year is that I’ve finally found the perfect roles and situations in terms of work. I’ve got an incredible team of staff who run my cafes and my catering business, and I also have a lot of flexibility in my other job, which is so good. I don’t—by any means—feel like I have to be clocking in or out at specific times. I’m definitely not the poster girl for time management, I never have been.
But as long as I can have that flexibility, I can give the best of myself at any given point. I’m not one to sit at a desk all day, saying, “Right, I’m clocking on now, and I’m clocking off now.” When I feel like it, I’ll draft a contract or write a policy. At other times, I might wake up at strange hours and think, “You know what, I’ve got a great idea for the business,” and I’ll just scribble it down.
There’s a lot of flexibility, and I try to maximise my time. However, I do want to mention that I don’t have children, and I honestly have a lot of respect for people who manage businesses while raising kids. It’s a whole different ballgame. I looked after my brother’s two kids for a week—one was a one-year-old, the other a four-year-old—and that was a lot!
But this is my life, and I love it. It brings me so much joy. I just do the type of work I feel best suited for at any given time. And yeah, it seems to be working well for me.
Fiona Killackey: Oh my goodness! Firstly, what a great sister you are to look after a one-year-old and a four-year-old for a week. I thought you might have said overnight! Wow, okay. He is a lucky guy! I really love that idea of, “What do I feel like doing?” I do a lot of time-blocking, and that’s worked well for me. But even then, on Tuesdays and Thursdays, I’m still seeing clients all day, so I don’t necessarily have that freedom to wake up and do whatever. I love what I do, but I really love your idea of just following how you feel. I think that’s where many people want to end up—doing what feels right for them in the moment.
Were you always interested in the business/entrepreneur world? To be able to run so many things and not feel completely overwhelmed by it all—was little Jacinta always entrepreneurial?
Jacinta Connell: Little Jacinta was a middle child, so I displayed a lot of the traits that come with that—like starving for attention. But, I’d say I was also pretty bold, and definitely a bit of a risk-taker from the start. I did dabble in entrepreneurial things. For instance, I wanted to start a holiday babysitting programme for all the kids I babysat, though it never actually came to fruition. I think it was around the age of seven. Probably some liability issues there!
I was creative from a young age. I loved having a microphone in my hand. I was quite loud and outgoing, really. But I came from a family of lawyers and professionals, so entrepreneurship was never something I considered as a career. Growing up, I didn’t really know anyone who owned their own business. It just wasn’t something that I ever thought about.
The way things panned out was more a series of opportunities that came to me. But, I’ve always had a creative mind. I think that’s what lends itself to doing different things. I have a lot going on in my brain at any given time, so having outlets and side hustles always seemed natural for me.
When I started practising law, I was just a lawyer. I didn’t think I would end up in the cafe world or anything like that. But I struggled a bit with the day-to-day routine of it all.
But I then made the decision, as I said in July last year, to close Brightside, the cafe, and continue to run Brightside as a catering company whilst running my second cafe, which is called Charlie and Co.
Wow. It's a lot, isn't it?
Fiona Killackey: It's a lot. And I love how it's like, you know, for some people, Covid... I remember when I talked to this guy, actually, I feel like I have a neon sign on my head that says, "Tell me everything about your life." And I'm always getting random people telling me their life story. And I was at, like, Woolworth's, and I said to the guy, "How are you?" You know, and he just went and, like, just told me everything about his life. And he said, "You know, everyone got... Everyone got to just slack at home during COVID. And people like me at a supermarket, we really had to work our asses off." And I was like, "So did so many other people as well, you know? Like, you know, a lot of business owners weren't just sitting at home watching all of the Netflix that they could." And it made me think then, my goodness, you were certainly not like chilling at home during the COVID years.
Jacinta Connell: Funny you say that, because I would say for the first year, maybe 18 months of COVID, we were riding pretty high. We were receiving what they call JobKeeper. I had quite a few staff who had been with me for quite a long time, as well as myself. So, yeah, we were receiving that. And to be honest, it was kind of buoyed by that kind of, I suppose, financial goodwill at that time.
And, being in South Australia, obviously, must... Must declare that caveat. We were barely affected by COVID, not nearly as much as Victoria or New South Wales, where we had lockdowns that totalled maybe about 10 days, I think.
Fiona Killackey: Oh, wow.
Jacinta Connell: We were very, very, yeah, untouched. It did. I mean, people were working from home. That was absolutely a thing. But there was not the same... It wasn't the same climate as New South Wales or Victoria. So I think it was buoyed by the JobKeeper and all the kind of the grants that came our way at the beginning of COVID that I actually then elected to open the second business.
So that absolutely was not our worst period. And to be honest, it's probably been the aftermath, which is the slowness to return to work. That's probably been the part that has hit us more sore. It's sort of impacted on the community.
And I think community is a big part of... I mean, I think running any cafe, you can't ignore the community within which you operate. And for us, I take it very seriously. It's a really important part of our operation. And when the community starts to behave differently, that's when... That's when you can start to feel the effects. So yeah, I don't solely blame the pandemic. There were definitely quite a few sort of positive things that came about for us as a business.
I also pivoted, like most small business owners who survived that period did. And I did everything from a general store selling off our coffee beans and things like that to then doing the one thing which really took off in the beginning. We called them isolation boxes, but they are what you would now call grazing boxes.
So we did boxes of coffee and wine. We started out doing the staples, so sending out toilet paper and trying to kind of use our suppliers. I use all local suppliers and trying to send out all our local milk and our local coffee beans and our bread and our fruit, fruit and veg suppliers and things, and sort of create these boxes and as hampers to go out.
And the most popular one by a country mile was the cheese and wine boxes. And they just absolutely took off, and I'm still being asked for the variations on those boxes today. So that really kind of solidified our place in that market, I suppose, that catering market.
Fiona Killackey: Yeah. And so, oh my goodness, there's so many questions I want to ask. But one of the things is, which is reminding me when we first connected, it was because you had listened to Kate Berry from OK Motels podcast. And Kate Berry has been a client. She's just the loveliest person, and she, you know, that was a very honest and raw podcast and about her challenges that she'd gone through, particularly as a hospitality-type business.
And like you've said, it's been really impacted, and some people had, you know, almost their greatest years. And I've worked with a lot of people in the homeware business, and they did do really well. And it sounds awful, and a lot of them felt incredibly guilty because it was like, "I'm actually doing really well out of this pandemic because everyone's at home and updating their things."
But as you've just sort of mentioned then, the aftermath of this and people changing, and people's habits and behaviours changing, and now we've got the economy and people not necessarily spending as much on maybe they used to get five coffees a week, and now they're going to have two coffees a week.
And so, how do you just keep going? And if someone's listening to this, whether they're in hospitality or... I know a lot of retailers right now are finding it incredibly difficult. I've been talking to people that say, you know, just nobody's coming into the shop at all. Like, it's just really difficult. What would you say to them? Because what has helped you get through those really challenging periods?
Jacinta Connell:
I think I was always very aware that this was obviously unprecedented. If I always had at the forefront of my mind, if my businesses are not going to withstand this huge change to society and the way we exist, then maybe it's time to look at doing something differently within my current businesses or look at starting something different. Because the world is forever changing.
I mean, I'm sure, you know, the people who ran Blockbuster sort of well, they were probably sitting on a gold mine for, you know, the rest of time. And if you can't evolve and adapt, you can't blame your surroundings. That's the world. That's the way these things run.
I think that is really the mark of, you know, a decent business owner is to be able to kind of accept and acknowledge when things are not working, try and change them, or don't be afraid to close the door and just say, that's not the right time, not the right concept, and try something different.
And I think that was always. I always thought, you know, what. What have you got to lose? Like, you've had a great few years in business, and if this is not what the world looks like, if the world doesn't need... if the world doesn't want to go and buy a coffee anymore, then what does it need? And what can you create?
The one thing I would say that irrespective of cost of living, crisis and pandemic, all those sorts of things, I strongly believe that the world does need that sense of community. I think it's so important, and I think that that is a big part of the reason why a lot of my customers come in every day.
It's because for a lot of them, that might be their first conversation of the day. And I know so much about people like you would not believe what people tell me over the counter. You know, I know about pregnancies, I know about people about to resign or, you know, various things that are happening in people's lives.
And there's a real kind of... I take that responsibility quite seriously because I think it's so important for people. And I think that is something that people will always need. And the product might look different or the delivery might look different, but there will always be a need for something in that form.
In saying that, I, as a business owner, I'm not... I see myself as less of a cafe and food and hospitality owner and more of, I suppose, just a general somebody with an entrepreneurial mind. I have so many different business ideas floating around in my head, and some I'm pretty ready to push.
Go on. And some, I'm sort of thinking maybe one day I might do this or... But, I don't necessarily want to be a career cafe owner. It's the running of the business, the creating of the community. That's the sort of stuff that gets me excited. And yeah, that's what I love doing.
Fiona Killackey: Thank you for sharing that because I think that's going to resonate with so many people. And I also feel like lots of people are going to listen and go, oh my God, I have permission to not be, you know, insert whatever they're currently doing in five years.
Like, instead of going, how do I...? And especially at the moment, we run an AI chat group with small business owners every month. And, you know, there is a sense of AI is going to take over all our jobs, whether I'm a photographer or a website builder or anything.
And I just love what you've just said because it's like maybe instead of being scared about that, think about what's my next evolution as a person and...
Jacinta Connell: Also, what do those things not offer? So we've heard that as lawyers, we've heard AI will take your jobs for a long time, or computers will take your jobs or whatever. And yes, to some extent, I think that's great, like automate whatever you can automate. That's fantastic.
But there are some gaps in AI technology when it comes to a profession like law. I was listening to a webinar on a few days ago, and there's been some interesting judgments that have come out with some incorrect references and things like that.
So there will always be a place for lawyers, but it's also like, well what can lawyers offer that AI can't offer? And one is the human aspect. And as I said with the cafes, I think the human aspect is something that we will always need.
So you might be delivering things differently or your work might look different, your product might look different, but the human aspect is so important. So why not focus on that? Don't focus on what we're losing, focus on what we're gaining or on what we can do better.
And I certainly think from a legal perspective, one of my favourite aspects of my job—because I'm not practising law in a private law firm firm anymore, I'm an in-house counsel—is...
What that means is I'm not just restating the law, going through the motions, filing forms in court or standing before a judge. I am taking the law as it affects the company that I work for. And I'm explaining it to them and I'm helping them to reach their strategic decisions about how they're going to handle things.
And that to me is not something that AI can do. It might be able to one day, but for the time being that's something that my company really values because they don't want me to simply restate the law or write them a memo or write them a file note.
Like what they want is to be able to run their business but to know that they're doing it in a way that is compliant, legally compliant basically.
And so whether that's hiring people or firing people or, you know, negotiating contracts or anything like that, it's actually having the legal aspect explained to them in a way that they can understand and they feel empowered to then go out and make the commercial decisions.
Fiona Killackey: Yeah, and actually that it's correct. I mean especially with law. Because one of the things I've been talking about a lot in the AI group is how much AI, I mean, hallucinates. It literally hallucinates. It just makes things up. And so if you question it, if you're like where did you get this from? It'll often say you're quite right, I just made that up. And I mean with law, that is like next level. You cannot be making things up. And actually, one of the... So in the AI chat group, we start with something that's been in the news to do with AI and in the first call, I talked about in September, a judge... I don't know what they did, but they sort of ruled that basically there was a child protection services agent, I guess from the government, that was putting forward information into court. And they used AI to kind of quicken the process of research. But what happened is that they'd used a tool with OpenAI. And so that child's, you know, very confidential information was now out in the ether. And it's like, policy can't catch up with AI. But also they were like, they sort of judged that nobody in child protection services can now use AI for blah, blah, blah. Don't quote me anyone that's out there because they'll be like, that's actually incorrect. But I just thought that was a thing that we'd never even thought that AI, if you're putting in very personal information about a child who's underage, it's things like that that you're like, no, AI shouldn't be used for this sort of stuff.
Jacinta Connell: I think it's also very well accepted now that AI, one of its biggest shortcomings, is in legal research. It's not a strength of AI at the moment. So maybe it will become one day, but certainly right now that's where it leaves a little to be imagined. So, yeah, I think there's definitely a place for the human element when it comes to legal research, if nothing else.
Fiona Killackey: Yes. And speaking of human elements, when we were talking in the DMs, we had a chat about some other stuff that you've gone through and particularly as a business owner and in your personal life now, to the extent that you would like to share, and we've discussed this beforehand and totally fine if you don't want to share or anything else, but you had some other personal challenges that you've gone through and how has that impacted you as a business owner? Because we will all face some sort of personal challenge in some cases. Yours is different to maybe what I've gone through. I lost my parents in my 30s. I've, you know, gone through trying to conceive IVF, other stuff. And so can you talk to that in as much as you would like to?
Jacinta Connell: Yeah, sure. So we did connect because I think, I think it was International Women's Day, you released a podcast and you basically acknowledged victim survivors of domestic and family violence. And it struck a chord with me. That is an experience I have had. At this point in time, I'm really... I choose not to let it define me either in my career or personally. But I also do feel strongly about acknowledging that it happened, acknowledging that I was one of the lucky ones who got out. And there are a lot of people who are not so lucky. And those statistics are just horrific. There's no other words. It's an incredibly complex situation. I'm not ever going to purport to be an expert in the area. What I can speak from is my personal experience, which is that I, over the period of about four or five years, was made to feel incredibly small. And this is obviously putting it very lightly. I was just completely overcome by self-doubt. I lost all sense of who I was, what was right, what was wrong. The nature of those sort of relationships is that they are very secretive. There's a lot that you don't share, for fear of being judged or out of shame. And so you tend to sort of fight this private battle that can be really, really difficult to sort of see what's right and what's wrong and what's reality and what's not.
The thing that I would say really, really helped me in this situation is an incredible network of people. I've got really, really close relationships with my family and friends, and whilst I did keep some of the sort of uglier details from them for a while there, I had people who stuck by me no matter what, did not judge my decisions, which at times were not great. But it was having that network of people who just consistently empowered me to be able to just keep going and to be able to keep putting one foot in front of the other. And eventually, little by little, I pieced back my confidence, my confidence in myself. There was a long time where I did not think I could run businesses on my own. I did not think I was cut out for the world I was in. And yeah, I just sort of pieced back my confidence little by little. And eventually, I did extricate myself from that situation, and I am so proud of myself for doing that and for getting out and for continuing to keep things going and keep the wheels in motion with my businesses and things like that. But it was, yeah, I would just say having that network of people around me.
I also saw a psychologist for that entire time. So when I actually first started my own bricks-and-mortar business, Bright Side Deli, the cafe, I booked an appointment with a psychologist because I thought business ownership can be quite a lonely career. You don't have people to bounce things off.
I am a big talker. I'm someone who needs to sort of share things to get through; otherwise, I bottle it all up, and I don't know what to do with it. So, initially, I booked that appointment just to have someone to bounce things off and to, you know, just a neutral person I was paying who had to listen to me. It was just to kind of get things off my chest.
And it eventually ended up being one of the saving graces for me because it was that sort of reality check on, you know, somebody who challenged my way of thinking, which I really, really value. And she didn't necessarily tell me what I wanted to hear, but she was also a big supporter that I could get out of this. It's not going to be today you're in it, tomorrow you're not. It's going to be step by step, and eventually, you're going to find that one day you've got a completely different mindset, and you're out.
And that's sort of how it happened. Little by little, step by step, I got out, and I got completely out. And, yeah, I certainly acknowledge that that's not the experience of everybody. It's an incredibly horrific situation that we're in here in Australia at the moment. But it also doesn't discriminate. It's something that is not confined to a particular demographic, socioeconomic sector, or anything like that. It can happen to anyone, and it does happen to a lot of people, but you can get out, and you can live a normal life afterwards.
Fiona Killackey: Thank you so much for sharing that. And I know, as you said, it's not defining you, and I think though it's so powerful for you to be able to share it. Maybe somebody listening to this – I mean, statistically, someone is listening to this, especially here in Australia, with the stats that we have. And so, I just feel like maybe hearing your story, they'll be inclined to go, "Okay, I'm going to book in to see a psychologist," or "I'm going to just have that one conversation that maybe is the starting point of other things happening."
And, yes, we will link to a bunch of places as well, including Safe Steps, RWatch, and your toolkit that can help if somebody's in that environment or if you think that somebody might be in the environment and you don't know how to broach the topic on that.
And again, I don't want to labour this point too much, but would it have helped if anyone at your work had said anything to you? Or do you feel like, no, it had to be my friends, or it had to be a psychologist?
Jacinta Connell: Do you know what? I think when I was in that situation, what I did not respond to was people telling me what to do. So, I think certainly the way that it was handled was kind of the key for me. I mean, I think sometimes some of the hardest things to hear when you're in that situation are, "Why don't you just get out? What are you doing? It's not as easy as that. It's not as simple as that."
But I think, for me, it was about helping to rebuild my confidence so that then I could make the decisions for myself and I could value myself and respect myself enough to want better for myself. And I think, yeah, that was it.
As I said, it is not a simple situation, and it is not the same for everybody. My responses might even seem overly simplistic to some people, but I really, on reflection, think that that's what it was. I didn't respond to people telling me, "Just get out, just move out, just do this, just do that." That was not what I needed to hear, and it was not what I needed to do. And if anything, it probably found myself being a bit more secretive about things when I thought that it would disappoint people. The reality would disappoint people.
So, yeah, I would say support in terms of not just stating what you think is the obvious, but actually just supporting people to make their own decisions. I think that's really, really important. But it also, you know what, it also depends on financial situations and a sense of, like, a shame that can be so much broader than what I suffered. There can be community-based shame, or religious shame, or anything like that. So it's definitely not a straightforward situation, and every situation should be treated differently.
But I think at its heart, a lot of these relationships thrive on just crushing confidence, and one person not feeling empowered to be able to stand out on their own. So, that was certainly my experience.
Fiona Killackey: Ah, I think that's so incredible what you've just shared. In terms of just, in general, business owners – if they're lucky enough to have staff – should be looking at how do I build their confidence anyway? You know, like, so often we think about what are they doing for us, and, okay, have they done this, and have they ticked off their task list, and did they rock up late, or did they slack off, or did they, you know...
Instead of being like, okay, if I want them to come here, I want them to feel valued. And some of the best jobs I ever had were where I had a manager who was like, "I think you're ready for this step," or "I think you could lead this meeting, why don't you have a go?"
And it was like petrifying. But then once you've done it, you're like, ah, even my 12-year-old is speaking at assembly today. You know, he has never spoken in front of the whole school. And so I'm like, you know, this is exciting, but these things will build up your confidence, those small things. So I love that you said that. Because I think maybe that is a starting point for business owners, regardless of whether they've ever had suspicions or anything else about their staff.
But that they could think about how do I build this person's confidence, regardless if there's something going on. But also knowing, at least from your experience, talking about that crushing of confidence, maybe if you're getting that from work, like you say, you're then inspired to figure out where else you could show that confidence in your life.
Jacinta Connell: And I've just had a brain wave, and maybe this has just come from our conversation. But maybe this is also why I think I’ve really kind of lost all inhibitions in terms of telling people how I feel about them in a positive way. And I think that probably lends itself to why I started communicating with you, Fiona. Something in me feels now that if you feel something, if you feel compelled, like if you feel so affected by something or so, something really impacted you in a positive way, tell the person.
I was not expecting to hear back from you, but your two podcasts that you let out into the world really spoke to me directly through my little ears, and I just felt so compelled to tell you that. And I think I feel the same way about my staff, about my family, about my friends. I'm just, I am, I've become a really big champion of people. And certainly, like, even on social media, when it’s, you know, I really do not expect to hear back, but I just want people to know that what you did was great and I really appreciated it.
And yeah, I think certainly with my staff in the cafe, I've always believed hospitality work, you quite often get people who are with you for a season or a short term, and that's fine. I don't want people to feel obliged to stay with me. I don't want people to feel like it's a chore to come to work. I've always wanted my staff to feel like they enjoy coming to work and they'll work hard for sure. I'll let them know my expectations of them, but I really want them to enjoy it.
If I'm ever starting to get an inkling that somebody has outgrown the cafe or has outgrown this environment or something, I’m such a big supporter of if they'll come to me and resign, or maybe I'll initiate the conversation. It is so much so that I will really encourage them in their next step. I get quite a lot of uni students working with me. They finish their degree, they go out and get their job, and I’m more than happy to be a referee and to really encourage them and give them any kind of life advice that I’ve got or anything like that.
Because, yeah, I get the best out of people when they bring their best self to my work. So it’s kind of a two-way street. But also that is a big part of my operating as a manager, I suppose.
Fiona Killackey: Yeah. Oh my goodness, you do so much. And even, my, I could cry before when you were saying you reach out to people and tell them how you feel and spread that positivity, because maybe that’s what you really needed when you’re going through all of this, you know, someone to see you and spread that positivity and build you up. So yeah, I think it’s amazing that you’re doing it.
Oh, I could cry because I’m getting all emotional. I love how I’m getting emotional. Even though you’ve gone through really difficult things. But one thing before we get into our quick-fire round is, do you have a really solid, like, morning routine? Because you do get through a lot.
And even before when you said I treat the day with intentionality and I’m like, what do I feel today? How do you start your day? Is it something that you literally ask yourself? Do you journal? Do you just get up, you know, and you must be up early? Well, if you’re not working at the cafe, maybe not. But I used to work in cafes and you're always up at the absolute crack of dawn before anyone else. What does your morning or just daily routine look like when you’re doing so much?
Jacinta Connell: I would really love to tell you that I have a morning routine or a daily routine, but I really don’t. That would be disingenuous to me. And any of my family and friends would say no, I really genuinely, I’m quite intuitive as to how I’m feeling.
If I have drained my social battery the previous day, for example, I’ve been, I’ve spent a bit of time in the cafe or I’ve been in a lot of meetings or I’ve had a social engagement or something, I don’t get up and force myself to get straight into work or something. Sometimes I will just have a slower morning. I’ll go and do a workout, I’ll take the dogs for a walk. We live right next to Linear Park in Adelaide and it’s beautiful. There’s koalas in the trees right next to us. And we’re in a city which is just, yeah, very, very fortunate.
So sometimes I will need those slower mornings. Sometimes I will just feel so energised that I’ll get straight up and get into my work no matter what happens. I do have a set amount of hours I’d like to spend on each of my ventures, I suppose, in the day. So I usually try to spend, most of the day will be my legal counsel work, some of the day will be my cafe work, and sometimes that’ll be more than others.
Sometimes that will look like me going into the cafe, sometimes that will look like me doing admin from home or doing invoices or responding to requests for quotes or something like that. And then yeah, just. And same with cafe work as well.
So I do try and allow for something of everything every single day. But I'm also, I'm not overly critical on myself if my brain is just not clicking into gear for some sort of work. And I really try to balance my work to best suit how I am.
Yeah, as I said that I'm speaking from a place of privilege there because that, that is kind of, I suppose, that's the ultimate goal for a lot of people is to have that flexibility. But it's taken me until this point in my career to finally get it.
I mean, I did. One part I left out of my story is that throughout the business ownership, the cafe ownership I did, I went back into law multiple times. Some stints were longer than others and so I did actually keep up my legal practice throughout those eight or nine odd years of owning businesses.
I found it incredibly difficult to drive into the city and know that I was going to be there from early morning till late at night and then I'd have to squeeze in cafe admin at the end of the night. Like that was too much for me. That's not. You do not get the best outputs from me.
Some people do thrive from the routine but I'm not someone who is like that and I think just kind of finally got to the point in my career and probably also my age where I know what works for me. I know when I produce my best outputs and I just embrace that.
Yeah, that would be my strongest thing. There are certain, I do have certain things I do try to do every single day. I'm not a rigid kind of routine person. No.
Fiona Killackey: Yeah, sure. Okay. So we're going to have a quick fire round. This is really where you're going to share whatever comes to your mind first. There's no right or wrong but are you ready? What's your non-negotiable self-care practice about?
Jacinta Connell: At least once a week I need to watch Real Housewives in some form and that is, I don't know, maybe it's the chaos that I thrive on or they're just sitting and listening and numbing out. I, I have it on my phone while I'm pottering around doing other things but that is, that's a non-negotiable. I also do personal training and I do I try and exercise a bit and things as well but that's the, that's probably the self-care of the lot.
Fiona Killackey: I love Real Housewives and I know this is a quick fire round but... What's your favourite?
Jacinta Connell: Beverly Hills, Salt Lake City. Yeah, they're probably my top show.
Fiona Killackey: Yeah, I'm loving Salt Lake City at the moment. Okay, next one. Early bird or night owl for getting work done?
Jacinta Connell: Bit of both. I value sleep probably way more than the average person so probably early bird, go to bed early. But yeah, kind of depends on where I'm at.
Fiona Killackey: Yes. Okay. What does success look like to you beyond revenue?
Jacinta Connell: Flexibility and freedom and being able to go and pick up my niece and nephew in the middle of the day if I'm needed or being able to. Yeah. Take the dogs for a walk in the middle of the day or yeah, just pause work when I need a break that I value that far more than I value the dollars in.
Fiona Killackey: The bank account 100%. I'm so there with you. Even today when my son said I'm going to speak at assembly, I'm like cool, I'm there. You know. That is flexible working conditions. Do you have one particular outfit or something style-wise or a particular song that just instantly makes you feel confident?
Jacinta Connell: Yeah, I have, I'm pretty kind of known for my uniform which is always black on black on black. It's just always been my thing. A bit of a winged eyeliner, a lick of fake tan and I am, that is me kind of game face on and yeah. Ready to face the world it's just always been what I feel comfortable in and I feel powerful in. And yeah, that's, that's it. It also makes it a lot easier to get dressed in the mornings, not only thing I wear, but it's definitely when I go to work, that's my go-to.
Fiona Killackey: I love that, like sharp and sleek. What is your favourite way to celebrate a win?
Jacinta Connell: Sharing it with my friends and family. I'm not one to hold back on the wins in my life. I've got so many group chats with my family and my girlfriends and various people where I'm not ashamed to just throw, "Hey guys, guess what happened to me today?"
And sometimes they're big wins and sometimes they're tiny wins. But also, I think my sharing means that I get to share other people's wins as well. And it doesn't matter how big or small they are for it's all proportionate, and that's probably what I love.
I also am impartial to a glass of champagne and a cocktail here and there. But yeah, probably the sharing with people, that's really what.
Fiona Killackey: Yeah, I love that. A girlfriend and I, we used to—well, we still hang out quite a bit—but we used to go for these walks, and I remember for a while at the end, we were like, "Okay, we just need to share five good things that happened this week."
And just go for it—there's no such thing as boasting or ego. Just like, yeah. Because so often I think, especially as women, we've got to like not boast and everything else. But I'm interested...
Jacinta Connell: I always used to, like, I used to preface it by saying, like, "Shameless self-promotion here" or "Shameless little humble brag" or something. And now I'm like, "No, guess what happened to me today?"
Like, yeah, I'm also like, look, I have very, very supportive family and friends and an incredibly supportive partner who are only too happy to indulge me.
Fiona Killackey: So, yeah, yeah, I love it, I love it. And finally, in the quick-fire round, best piece of advice you've been given.
Jacinta Connell: I think probably the one that I really like is in terms of business: "If you're not—something along the lines of—'If you're not embarrassed by the first version of the product that you put out, you started too late.'"
And that just really speaks to me. Just give it a go. Like, you know, I say to people around me all the time who think, "Oh, I kind of want to start a business and do that or whatever," just do it. What have you got to lose?
And everybody's embarrassed, but, oh, some of those first coffees I pulled out or, you know, events, I took the coffee van and couldn't get the electricity started—whatever, who cares? It's like, that's the only way you learn. And it happens to the best of us. So, it is.
Fiona Killackey: When people message us about this podcast, often they say, "Oh my God, somebody's just got me onto it and I'm going to binge it and I'm going all the way back to the first."
And I'm like, "Oh God, please, please don't." I've never listened to it. I probably raced through it. I was probably so nervous I needed to get off there as quickly as possible. But it's that whole thing now we're up to like nearly episode 500. So, you know, just start.
Jacinta Connell: Alright.
Fiona Killackey: What are you most proud of from your journey so far?
Jacinta Connell: Probably the communities I've built. I'd say so. I mean, certainly my staff—people who did not know each other from a bar of soap and are now best friends. And, you know, someone leaves and they're still having group catch-ups and everything—that makes me feel so happy.
But also, the communities in terms of the cafe, the people who come in and they absolutely carried us through COVID and the aftermath. And yeah, it's just a really, really nice community of people that come in every day.
I'm not in the cafe so much anymore, but when I do jump in and get on the tools, get behind the coffee machine for a morning here or there, the conversations that I have, the people who've got to know me so well, who've seen me through so many iterations of my life, and it's awesome, I love it.
And I just think if I hadn't started this business, this... I mean, it might be there in some other form, but this exact community would not be here. And that makes me so proud.
Fiona Killackey: Okay, where can people connect with you? And also, what's next for the businesses? So, whether they are in Adelaide and they need a catering service or I imagine that there'll be people that might want to reach out and be like an in-house lawyer. Like, how does that work for a business? Maybe I want to get one of them. Yeah, where do they connect with you? Where's the best?
Jacinta Connell: I mean, I have so many different business ideas. So, watch this space. You can find me on LinkedIn, Jacinta Connell, or Instagram. I've got my personal Instagram which is Sintconnell or the businesses: Brightside Deli is one and the other is Charlie Co. under Adelaide.
I think so, yeah. Any of those channels, they all come to me and yeah, that's it. I'm open to all kinds of discussions about all kinds of things. So, yeah, hit me up.
Fiona Killackey: Awesome. Well, thank you so much. I know you've got lots on your plate, and thank you also for reaching out that first time. Like, I love hearing from people who listen to the podcast and what, you know, what did they resonate with, what ideas do they have? And thank you, thank you, thank you.
Jacinta Connell: I appreciate that you received it so positively and so well. So, yeah, thank you, Fiona, for engaging. Bye, peers. Bye.
Fiona Killackey: You probably heard it in my voice, but I was smiling so much throughout that chat. And at the end of it, just Jacinta and I were like, "God, we could have just kept talking and talking and talking." I had to jump off so that I could, you know, make it to my son's assembly.
But I just want to say a massive, massive thank you to Jacinta for sharing so many ideas and challenges and things that, you know, so many of us are going through. I think we don't talk about enough, and sometimes you don't feel like you have the space to talk about it.
Maybe with your life, maybe it's that you're surrounded by people who aren't running a business. So, yeah, I just think there's so much power in sharing with each other. Whether that's through things like sending a DM when you think of something that somebody's done that you want to let them know, and that it's been, you know, it's touched you in some way. Or whether it's coming onto a podcast and giving of yourself so much in that way that Jacinta did.
So, I just want to say a massive thank you to Jacinta. If you would like to connect with her, you can check her out on Instagram @cintconell (as in C-I-N-T-C-O-W-N-E-L). You can also find her many businesses at Brightside Deli (all one word) and Charlie and Co Adelaide. And also, listen to her as the co-host of Saturday Alarm Clock, which the Instagram is @sat_alarm_clock.
We will link to all of that in the show notes. We will also link to the various businesses, including the Brightside Deli and Charlie and Co, on the show notes for this, which you can find at mydelhibusiness.com/podcast490. Again, if you're in Adelaide especially, they are called Brightside Deli and Charlie and Co, so go and check it out.
As always, I am going to highlight two things that really stood out amongst so many. The first, I just loved and feel so strongly about this, is when Jacinta talked about the human touch and the need to build that community.
I feel like I have been hammering on about this since I started my business. It is all throughout my first book, you know, that came out in 2020, and it's throughout the second book as well. Build your community, have real connections, have real discussions with people, use voice notes, use things that are sharing your community.
I just feel that so much connection is lost, ironically, through social media, and people aren't actually just being social on social media.
So I love that she talked about building that community, building those conversations in the cafe, really connecting with people and the human element of, you know, in her work as a lawyer, in-house counsel, really delivering these, I'm sure, quite complex legal jargon and terms and policies in a way that people can genuinely connect with on a human level.
So I love that she was talking about looking at your business through the lens of community. And if we can look at that, I just feel like business already is so powerful. Small businesses really, like, run the world, honestly. I know it may not feel like that right now, and we've got these horrendous things happening around the world, but I do think that small business owners can tap in and really impact their community, and then that just is like a ripple effect.
So think about what you have coming up in your business. Think about the way you interact with your staff, if you're lucky enough to have them. How are you building genuine connection? How are you building genuine community?
And I love that she also talked about AI and we had that whole discussion. And if you are interested in learning more about this, you can join our AI chat. It's at mydaily.com/aichat. But I love that she brought up that it's not going to replace the humanity. And, you know, particularly in her field, they've been talking about it for years and years and years that you're going to be replaced by this, you're going to be replaced.
Iris, really think with AI, how can it benefit us? But also, it's reminding us — it's a massive reminder to build that humanity into your business. One of my most popular talks and keynotes that I deliver a lot and have done for like the last eight years is how to build humanity in your business.
And it's called "Where Are You?" You know, building humanity in your business, humanising your marketing, humanising your business. It is so important. So if nothing else, take away from this incredible chat with Jacinta: how can I build that community?
And she talked about her community has been there through thick and thin with her and she likewise with them, and also the community with her staff. It's not just about the external audience, it's also the staff community that just happens. So I love, love, love that.
The second point that really stood out to me is this idea that you don't have to be stuck in one thing. Like, you can be an entrepreneur, and that entrepreneurial spirit could run through various businesses in your lifetime and lots of different ideas.
It made me think when she was talking about always sort of having that idea and wanting to come up with a babysitting camp when she was quite young — that is something that's just in us. I started a long time ago, my goodness, really like probably 2000 selling earrings that I handmade at Camp Boyle Market. Then I went into...
Then I went overseas and I did a whole bunch of things. The first time I went to London, then I came back and I started a little fashion brand and I got stuff made in a beautiful factory in Brunswick in Melbourne. I had jackets and jumpers and sweaters, and I sold them at markets, I sold them to friends. I also sold them in two retailers.
Then, like, I've moved into so many different things in my lifetime. And right now, yes, I'm in business coaching and consulting, but this doesn't mean that that's what I'm going to be doing for the next 20 years.
And I think so often we can get stuck thinking, "I've opened this retail shop" or "I'm, you know, I make wedding cakes" or whatever it is, and think that's it and I've got to somehow figure out how it's going to be indestructible for the rest of time, as opposed to going, "Is it what I really want to be doing for the next 20 years?" And also, "What is it that I love? Is it the actual creation of candles or whatever?"
Or is it the — like she said — "Yes, I love doing the cafe, but it's also the business part. It's problem solving, it's working with people, it's building community." And that can happen in various industries.
And so I love that so much, and I think it's going to be a really powerful thing for people to listen to and, and potentially you as you're listening to these are going, "Okay, you know, I don't have to wait for permission to change, and it's not a failure if I close something and start something else."
I think so often longevity is seen as the absolute marker of success, as in lots of things, including in relationships, including in lots of other things in life and friendships, where it's like, no, the mark of success would be the quality and how great I feel when I'm in that relationship or that friendship or that.
So I love it so, so, so much.
Again, if you want to connect with Jacinta, we'll link to everything, including Brightside Deli and Charlie and Co, and her own personal Instagram. And you can find her on LinkedIn as well in the show notes for this, which you can find at mydailbusiness.com/podcast490.
If you have enjoyed this episode, I'd love it so much if you could share it with a friend. It just helps other small business owners learn from other small business owners.
Thanks for listening. See you next time. Bye.
Thanks for listening to the My Daily Business Podcast for a range of tools to help you grow and start your business, including coaching programmes, courses and templates. Check out our shop at mydailybusiness.com and if you want to get in touch, you can do that by email at hello@mydailybusiness.com or you can hit us up on Instagram at mydailybusiness_. You can find us on TikTok at mydailybusiness or find me Fiona Killackey on LinkedIn. I look forward to connecting.
