Episode 498: Nakisah Williams of Craft Club
Building a business isn’t just about growing fast—it’s about learning how to keep up with that growth while staying true to yourself. And for many business owners, that’s a constant challenge.
In this episode, Fiona Killackey speaks with Nakisah Williams, the founder of Craft Club, a brand that started in the midst of lockdown and has grown into a thriving creative community. But it hasn’t been easy. From facing copycats to balancing the mental and emotional demands of entrepreneurship, Nakisah has learned how to navigate the ups and downs of building a business from scratch.
Here’s what’s covered in this episode:
The birth of Craft Club: How Nakisah turned a simple idea into a community-focused brand.
Dealing with copycats: The tough reality of running a business where others try to imitate your success.
The power of community: How Nakisah’s loyal followers have supported her through challenges.
Mental health and entrepreneurship: Why it’s crucial to prioritize well-being in a fast-paced world.
Branding and social media: Using your online presence to build something meaningful.
Celebrating the small wins: How to recognise and appreciate the progress, no matter how small.
If you’ve ever felt the weight of building something from the ground up, this episode is for you. Tune in for insights, real talk, and practical advice from someone who’s been through it all.
Connect and get in touch with My Daily Business
Your one-stop destination for premium business tools and resources
Connect and get in touch with Nakisah Williams | Craft Club
Fiona Killackey: Do you love your life as a small business owner?
Let's be real.
Sometimes we just don't. It's my hope that this, the My Daily Business Podcast, helps you regain a little of that lost love through practical, actionable tips, tools and tactics, interviews with creative and curious small business owners, and in depth coaching episodes with me, your host, Fiona Killackey With more than 20 years experience in marketing, brand content and systems and having now helped thousands of small business owners, I know what it takes to build.
A business that you can be proud of and that actually aligns with your values, your beliefs, and your hopes for the future. So much of our daily life is spent working on and in the businesses and the brands that we are creating, and so it makes sense to actually love what you do.
So, let's get into this podcast and help you figure out how to love your business and your life on the Daily.
Hello and welcome to episode 498 of the My Daily Business Podcast. Today, it's an interview episode, and if you've ever thought about your career, your own product, and how you would actually go about creating that, then today's episode is absolutely for you.
Before we get stuck in, I want to acknowledge the traditional owners and custodians of these amazing lands that I get to live on, lands that are just so nourishing. For me, in North Warrnambool, that is the Wurundjeri and Boonwurrung peoples of the Kulin Nation. I pay my respects to their elders, past and present, and acknowledge that sovereignty has never been ceded.
Alright, let’s get into today’s interview episode. If you have any interest in craft and you live in Australia or the US, you very well may know our guest today. Nakisah Williams is the founder of Craft Club, which is an incredible brand that allows people to dive into their creativity through craft. It also teaches you how to complete amazing projects without being an expert in this area. So, it really is for anyone, from beginners to people who are obsessed with craft and just always want to be doing something new.
Craft Club offers a whole range of craft kits. These include things like rug making and latch hooking. I've been doing a lot of latch hooking with my son, and he’s 12, and we both love doing it. Honestly, it’s very addictive. You start doing it, and you think, "Oh my goodness, how many more of these kits could I buy?" But we talk today about how Nakisah got into the craft space. Was she always into this? Is this something she’s been working on for years before launching it? Actually, I think it’s been four years now because they just had their fourth birthday.
We also talk about what she was doing before this, from what she studied at university to the other jobs that helped her come to this business with so much expertise—not just in craft, but in so many other things. I love that idea of looking back because often we can’t connect the dots of all the things we've done that then make us better business owners. In her case, for Craft Club.
In addition to talking about the designs, manufacturing, and all the challenges around that for different products like cushions, rugs, woven mags, or the viral moss kits, we also talk about building your audience. How do you do that? How do you create so much content on all these different platforms? Craft Club, at last count, had around a quarter of a million followers on Instagram. They also have Pinterest, Facebook, and all the other places. Nakisah is a huge part of the face of the brand.
We also talk about why she has ventured into building her personal brand in more detail. We go through some heartfelt conversations around challenges Nakisah has faced in her life and how these experiences have shaped the way she runs her business. I want to put a trigger warning here as we talk about severe mental health challenges that Nakisah has witnessed with other people in her life, and we also discuss suicide. If you need help with any of these topics, you can always call Lifeline in Australia on 13 11 14. We’ll link to some other mental health resources in the show notes.
But I also want to stress that this is just one part of today’s conversation. There are so many other things we talk about, and learning more about Nakisah’s story has made me even more inspired by her. What she has been able to build, the type of person she is—she is so giving, caring, considerate, curious, and creative. She is just the best type of business owner.
So, we talk about all sorts of things, including what it’s like to work with family, how she’s built Craft Club, and so much more. Here it is, my interview with the amazing Nakisah Williams of Craft Club.
Fiona Killackey: Welcome to the podcast, Nakisah.
Nakisah Williams: I'm happy to be here.
Fiona Killackey: I’m so happy for you to be here! I always like to ask people, how are you feeling about life right now in this moment?
Nakisah Williams: Life right now is… I’m feeling very, very excited, but also equally very tired at the moment. I think I really dove into 2025 running. I have so many things going on with work, but everything is something I’m really excited to do and build. So, I feel like I’m simultaneously full of energy, but also just a little bit exhausted all the time and like, close to crashing. I’m actually getting married in May overseas. So, the big push right now is to try and get as much done as I can to ensure I actually get a real break. Because, as you know, when you're an entrepreneur, it’s really hard to switch off. That’s my biggest priority, which is why there’s such a big push this time of year.
Fiona Killackey: Oh, this is such an answer that I feel like a million people can relate to. I feel that constantly. I feel super excited about all these things, but at the same time, I’m like, "Oh, I wish I could just lie in bed today and do absolutely nothing." That’s my mindset the majority of the time: super excited and then, God, I just want a week where I do nothing.
Nakisah Williams: Yeah, it’s always both—equal measures of both at all times.
Fiona Killackey: It’s funny because I’ve set it up so I could go back to bed some days, but I’m like, "No, of course not." Because I’m so excited about this, or that, or talking to people like you. You are the incredible and super inspiring founder of Craft Club. So, for anyone who’s not familiar with Craft Club or in the craft space, what is it and when and why did you start it?
Nakisah Williams: So, Craft Club is an eCommerce brand where our whole mission is to make creativity accessible with really easy and fun DIY kits. They're also pretty unique in the craft space. We’re most known for our viral latch hooking kits, where you can make your own fluffy rug or cushion. We’re all about really vibrant, fun designs. I design everything myself, so it’s very much inspired by the kind of art styles I love. We're also quite well-known now for our Moss Coaster kits, which are hard to describe over a podcast because they seem really strange and niche. But surprisingly, thousands of people all around the world love them. Basically, you make your own little mossy oasis to put your mug on, but it’s made out of beautiful soft materials and fabrics, all with weaving techniques. So, yeah, that's what we’re all about.
Fiona Killackey: Oh my goodness. I just think it’s amazing. And I know that you know my son and I are really big fans of your latch hook kits. He’s 12, and we sit there, latch hooking, and it actually takes longer than you think. When I started, I thought, "Oh my God, I’m going to finish so quickly," but then I realised, "Oh, no, it actually takes a while." But it’s great because you have this craft that you can do for a while. So when did you start it, and also, why did you start it? Were you always a massive crafter?
Nakisah Williams: Yeah, now I am! I started back in 2021, right at the beginning. We just had our fourth birthday in February, which is really exciting. I started because I saw so many people around me during lockdown—friends who would love to create things they'd seen on Pinterest, or who were really into interior design but were too scared to try it themselves. I felt the same way during lockdown, where I really wanted to be creative. I wanted to make something I was proud of, but there wasn’t anything available to me. There were no eCommerce brands making something modern and cool. When I went to local craft stores or big craft stores in Australia, there just wasn’t anything that resonated with me. I thought, "This is missing from the space."
I’ve always been a very creative person. During high school, I loved art and had an art scholarship at the private school I went to. But growing up, my well-meaning family always said, “Creativity isn’t going to make you any money. You can’t be an artist; you’ve got to focus on creating a profession for yourself.” So, I pushed creativity aside during the early years of my career and didn’t realise the positive impact it had on my life. It wasn’t until lockdown, when I reconnected with my crafty skills, that I realised how much of an impact it had on mental health and confidence. When you make something that looks amazing and you’re proud of, that feeling is incredible. I wanted to make that more accessible because so many DIY kits out there are really complicated and don’t help beginners create something beautiful at the end.
That’s where Craft Club came from. From the very beginning, I’ve focused on making sure that even if you’ve had zero experience, you’re guaranteed to make something beautiful that you can be proud of at the end.
Fiona Killackey: It’s so true. I was just remembering how I bought a cross-stitch kit during COVID, and to your point, there were no instructions, and I had no idea what I was doing. I ended up giving it to the op shop because it was just making me stressed, not relaxed. What you’re doing is absolutely fantastic! Were you always this ambitious? And well done on the art scholarship—that’s amazing! That also kind of answers the question that yes, you probably were quite ambitious. But what were you like when you were little or finishing high school? What was that conversation about creativity for you?
Nakisah Williams: Oh my gosh, it’s funny you say that. I had my art scholarship, and when it came to Year 11 and 12, my well-meaning mum and grandma were like, "That’s not going to give you a good ATAR." They went to my school and asked if I could drop out of art to do biology. The school rightfully said, “No, she has a scholarship for it. She can’t drop out.” I’m really grateful that I got to stay in art. But it’s funny, isn’t it? I have no hard feelings towards my family—it was just a different time. Now, life is different, and you can create your own career and success from creativity in a way that was never accessible in decades gone by.
And yes, I’ve always been a big dreamer. I’ve always been ambitious, but when I was younger, I didn’t have the confidence to translate that into reality. Looking back on my childhood, I realise I had a lot of privileged experiences, but also a lot of trauma and tragedy. My mum was a single parent. She’s a graphic designer and artist, so I think that’s why I’ve been able to create a business based on creativity, despite having no formal training.
But being a single mum, she also had a turbulent time. When I was in high school, my stepdad, who I saw as my real dad, tragically took his own life. This happened when I was doing my HSC, and it was a really transformative period in my life. It was incredibly hard, but it also defined much of my early 20s. After school, I studied accounting because my stepdad was an accountant. I thought, “This is a way to honour him, and he would be proud of me doing this.” I did that for a year, but I realised being an accountant wasn’t for me. However, I do think he would still be proud of what I’ve achieved today.
Fiona Killackey: Oh, I think your mum and stepdad must be so, so proud. I’m trying not to cry over here. That was so beautiful of you to share. It’s such a generous thing to talk about. People go through so much, and to hear how it shaped you and how you’ve turned that into something beautiful—wow. That’s so powerful.
Oh, gosh, really good emotional. So to do something that you love because that is living, that is like, you know, something that he wasn't able to do. I'm like, God, look at me. Wonderful for your mother to have, like, brought you up in such a creative world that you see the possibilities.
Nakisah Williams: No. And I have to say, like, thank you for making a space where I can talk about it too. Because it is one of those things I'm obviously pretty public with my, well, through the business. But of course, stories like this never get told because like, when do you bring it up? When do you just tell the people in your life that this is what's happened to you? And especially when it comes to mental health and like suicide and things like that. It's such a, like, shameful topic I suppose sometimes. And like, even when it happened, I remember going through university because I grew up in a small country town and I moved to Sydney for uni. I just didn't tell anyone. I didn't tell any of my friends for like a year that, like, months previously that had happened because it just felt so, like, foreign and like I don't even know how to have this conversation. I don't even know the words to use.
And so I think it's a really beautiful thing now that the sad things like that can also coexist at the same time as positive stories too. And I think it's really great that we talk about it more.
Fiona Killackey: Yeah, I think so too. And yeah, I just think that it's the humanity that everyone is going through behind their social media stuff. Like there will be such high highs and such low lows in every person's life. And I just think it's beautiful that you're sharing that part of you and so on that, like, how did you go?
Fiona Killackey: I mean accounting.
Fiona Killackey: Like in a way, he's been really helpful for your business because I'm sure you'd learned a lot of really good number stuff that everyone would love to know in business. And accountants are like the backbone of small business. They help us so much. I feel like they're like the little David and Goliath, but they're finding the ATO, like the Australian tax office, trying to help small business owners get whatever they can. But yeah. How did you go then from... I've finished this accounting course, I've, you know, decided that's not for me to I'm going to start a business. Or did you do various things in between?
Nakisah Williams: Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. I think I've got to definitely thank Dad for that skill that I have with accounting now because it really, I use it every single day and I'm very grateful for it. And I do think he'd be proud of the amount of numbers I can juggle now as a small business owner.
Fiona Killackey: Yes, totally.
Nakisah Williams: Yeah. No, I had quite a winding career, I suppose, before running my own business. So after finishing accounting, I sort of did this like 180. I had a bit of, like, in the middle of my first year of uni, I had a bit of a breakout about the fact that, oh my God, I'd put so much energy and belief into like this is the way I'm gonna succeed. And actually, I don't.
Fiona Killackey: Want it at all.
Nakisah Williams: Oh my God, who am I? Who am I going to be without that obsession with wanting to be an accountant?
Fiona Killackey: Which is it lovely in itself because there's accountants out there listening going, yes, some of us are passionate about being an accountant.
Nakisah Williams: Yeah. And then I realised I was like, okay, I want to do something creative. But I know my family are like that's ridiculous. So I was like, okay, here's an in-between. I'm going to go study fashion, but I'm going to go study the business side of fashion. And I'm going to go work in some kind of fashion industry, but in like the corporate way. So therefore, I'm going to be a little bit creative and a little bit corporate. That was sort of my plan.
And I went and studied fashion at like a local Sydney fashion institute. It was like a one-year diploma in business but focusing on fashion, like PR and buying and that kind of thing. And then I ended up having a career, I think about a three-year long career in fashion, working in buying and planning. So it was still very much a corporate world.
I think going into it, I thought I'd have a lot more creative expression. I've always grown up like loving products without sounding like some kind of shopaholic or something like that. But, you know, I've always really liked looking at brands deeply and been like, what makes this special? And oh, I love this design. Why is this important to me? Just kind of naturally. So I thought, oh my gosh, working in that corporate side of retail will be something where I can express that creativity as well as basically have my family go, that's okay, that's a good job.
And I did that for three years and I learned so much. But by the end of it, I just realised it was still a lot of the same. It was still very much chained to a desk 9 to 5. And when they kind of outlined the pathway, the place I worked had a very structured pathway for being able to rise the ranks of, like, buying. And I just realised, oh my God, I'm gonna be like here doing this for like 10 years before I'm going to be at the level I want to be.
And also, talking to some of the buyers I knew there, one of them had recently had a child and I remember her just sort of off the cuff complaining when we were in the car to meet a supplier about how, oh, she just wished she could like spend more time with her six-month-old and how it's so hard. And even then, when I was like 21 or 22 at that point, I was just like, oh no, like, so, so you're telling me that the dream is just to get to this place where I still don't have the freedom that I want?
Fiona Killackey: Yes, often it is that we like want something and then you get there and you're like actually, I don't want that at all.
Nakisah Williams: Yeah. And I think it's, I mean, not to be dramatic about it because of course, there are like so many beautiful fulfilling careers in the corporate world. At least my experiences, it felt very much like I'd been like fed this lie. Like if you just work your way really hard, you give it your all, you like stay late, you do all of this, then when you get to that final promotion, everything's gonna be rosy. You're gonna have tonnes of money, you can afford the apartment of your dreams, everything will be great. And I just sort of realised that is absolutely not the case.
And also working in fashion, it's an industry that's well known for being underpaid and it's women dominated but men are all at the top. So it's, even in that industry, it's hard to be right at the top. And that was when I realised I'd always had this inkling I wanted to start my own business but I never knew what. At the time, I was really into calligraphy. So I was like, maybe I'll just quit my job and go write wedding invitations.
Fiona Killackey: Brilliant career.
Nakisah Williams: Yeah. But I still didn't know, still I didn't know anyone in my life who had a business. So I didn't think of it as that much of a real possibility. However, I knew I hadn't finished my business degree and I knew that my family wanted me to have a degree. So I was like, okay, I'm going to take a career break, I'm going to go back to uni. I went to UTS to go finish my business degree and I was like when I'm at uni, I will give myself the mental space to try and start my own business. But I had no idea what at that point. And that was in 2019, I think. Yeah, wow.
Fiona Killackey: And then it took two years before craft club came to be. And so with that. And we'll talk about your social media following in a second. So how did you go from, and I can see a gap in the market and I'm in these department stores or these craft places and I can't find anything to... I'm gonna design it, I'm gonna find a supplier, I'm gonna somehow get it shipped to Australia, then I'm gonna figure out ecommerce, then I'm gonna sell it, then I'm gonna build social media. Or did you build the social media before you had like a product to sell?
Nakisah Williams: Very much the product first. I have to say I have to give so much credit to my partner or now fiancé, Nikos, who when we met he was running his own digital marketing agency and he had a very similar experience to me of going to uni. He went to ANU to study political science and sort of had this realisation that he wanted to be an entrepreneur and then started interning at startups.
And so when we met, I felt like we'd had this similar experience. But he, having run his own agency, was really like, yeah, of course you can start your own business. Like, he didn't even second guess me. When I was telling him on like our first date that I'd love to start my own business, he's like, hell yeah, you can. And having someone, like knowing someone for the first time who had not only done it even though it was a completely different industry, but just had that like blind confidence that if it's something I wanted, of course, of course I could do it. That changed everything. Just to have someone who believed in me first gave me the confidence to really give it a go. Because otherwise, I was forever stuck in like that idea mode where I felt like I didn't know what the first step was.
Fiona Killackey: And this is why you need to snap up men like that who, you know, are like, yeah, you go get it, girl.
Nakisah Williams: Yes, he's my biggest cheerleader. And that means the absolute world. And I'm his biggest cheerleader. So that's, so I feel so lucky to have that relationship. But yeah, so the very first step was playing around with samples. So I knew when I started that I wanted to do some kind of craft, but I wanted it to be easy and affordable and accessible, especially because I was using my own savings for my part-time job to, put money into the business to buy stock. And so I knew I couldn't start with some huge product that takes thousands and thousands of dollars to invest in because I just didn't have the money. So the business actually started, it was called Cross Club because originally I was only selling cross-stitch kits.
Fiona Killackey: I love that. Cross Club.
Nakisah Williams: Yeah. Luckily, it was a really easy transition to Craft Club after six months. And I was like, actually, I want to do more craft. So with those, I initially found suppliers. I literally just Googled, like, how do you find manufacturing suppliers? Went on Alibaba. I think there's other online places where you can connect with suppliers, like, like global sourcing and things like that.
And the thing is, knowing what I do now about supplying and sourcing is that a lot of the people you meet on those websites, they will be agents and things like that. So there's sort of third parties in between a manufacturer. But when you're small, sometimes it's good to be able to deal with an agent because they give you access to small quantities that you just cannot do if you're dealing directly with a manufacturer.
Of course, if you're tiny and you haven't been able to prove your idea, that if there's even product-market fit, you can't go ahead and invest in buying like 5,000 lunchboxes or whatever product you want to sell and then just go, okay, I'm just gonna deliver 5,000 to my house and see what happens. Because that could be the worst case scenario of you not being able to move them. So for me, it was first making little samples. It took me like six months to stitch the first designs that I wanted to sell. And talk to all these different manufacturers about like, oh, how much does it cost to get thread? How do I get these pieces? Can you use this kind of boxes? So much back and forth.
So it was a big investment in time. But slowly, slowly, after six months of like getting parcels to and from, we kind of settled on what the final product would look like. We've changed so much since then now, like, our packaging has improved so much. The materials that I include in kits have changed and improved too. But it really did sort of, it starts that way. And you can't start with perfect. You've just got to start somewhere and then keep trying to be better as you connect with customers.
Fiona Killackey: Oh, I love that you can't start with perfect. Oh, I feel like everyone needs to tattoo that on their forehead when they, are starting a business. And so with that then... So, like, it's funny, all of these different careers, you know, I always say to people, it's like a connect the dot picture. When you look back, you know, the fashion, the buying, that would have helped you massively in terms of stock and inventory and forward planning and projecting, and then the accounting stuff and then having this partner as well. So when then did you start talking about it publicly? Like, were you, okay, I've got 10 boxes to try and sell? Did you get friends and family to buy the stuff first? Did you have an email list? Had you built social media? Like, how much did you actually order? Or you don't have to tell us exact if you don't want to. And then how did you sell that first? Like, how did you connect with people to sell it to? To start with?
Nakisah Williams: Yeah. I think Craft Club is a good example of just starting anywhere is better than trying to make everything perfect. Because if I started a business now with the experience I have, of course, I would start building my social media before I even have a product. I'd be posting inspiration and just doing something to get a little bit of traffic or get a little bit of hype.
But back then, no, I started posting on social media maybe like the week after I'd launched. And my very first photo was my logo. Like, it was just a little square picture of my logo which no one's going to like. But, you know, it just started. Like, I thought it was cool, I was excited and I was like, just gonna put myself out there. I also, I did sort of have that like embarrassing feeling posting it on like so many people who I'd known from my career in the past, they'd seen me like quit my career and go off to uni and probably, I bet you they were like, oh, what's she doing now?
And so I did have that feeling of like, oh my God, it's kind of embarrassing to show people that I'm being vulnerable and show that I've made something and that I'm asking for support or asking people to follow me. But I think I really leaned into just like being dull and being like, I'm going to imagine that people care and I know I do have close friends who will cheer me on, so I'm just gonna do it for them and not matter what anyone thinks. Like, doesn't matter what the people from like high school think or the people from uni or something like that.
And in regards to things like email list, I don't think I sent an email for the first like eight months.
I think maybe one of the first emails I ever sent, we collected them with orders, but we weren't going out of our way. We were not optimising like sign-ups or anything like that. But I think maybe one of the first emails I ever sent was like our really tiny Black Friday sale that we had at the end of our first year. So it was so small and sometimes I forget how far I've come.
Especially now when I'm always thinking of, "Oh my gosh, there's a million things on my to-do list. How can I do them all at once?" But I really reflect on how in those first couple of years I was still studying, there were still other things in life going on. So it really was like tiny, tiny steps to progress, and I did not have it all together at all. It's really good to hear.
Fiona Killackey: This, because I think when people—let’s say they haven’t heard of Craft Club, and then they listen to this podcast, they go and have a look and they see you've got, you know, a quarter of a million followers, or very close to, which is, you know, massive—well done. But in those early days, when you were posting and building that, what were the best parts of doing it?
I know I’ve talked to you previously, and you’ve had some ideas around just using it as like a portfolio. Try not to give yourself all this judgement of how many likes you're going to get or how validating it’s going to be. And then, what are some of the worst parts of building that? That’s a very large audience to build. What are good and bad parts of growing that, and any tips for anyone listening?
Nakisah Williams: Yeah, thank you so much. It's kind of crazy to look at it now and see what Craft Club has become because it really feels, for the vast majority of the time, that the business has been running, we did not have that kind of reach and growth. We’re really lucky that around October, November in 2023, I suppose, we had our first viral reel that went out and it hit like multi-millions of views, which was so exciting on Instagram. But that really came out of nowhere, and it came from a post that I had posted like a month and a half earlier as well.
So when it comes, I think something to remember, like all of us need to remember this—and even I need to remember this sometimes when I look at social media—is that followers and views are absolutely not a reflection of the business behind that account. You can have a really incredibly successful business that has, like, 1,000 followers or less. I’ve seen it all the time from other businesses that I know. And vice versa, you can have an incredible platform and an incredible community that's huge, where the business itself might not be running perfectly or optimally, or they might not be getting thousands and thousands of orders that you associate, or that you assume they do.
And even when I think we maybe had around 15,000 followers when we first went viral, which at the time I was like, that’s amazing. This is my peak—15,000. I worked for two and a half years to get there. When we first had that viral thing, growing our platform was incredible for reaching people. It was incredible for validating us, I suppose, making us show people that we were the serious business that we wanted to be.
But in terms of like the everyday running of the business, it didn’t change that drastically as virality happened. And I think sometimes that’s something to remember for people who are really dreaming of that. Especially when you're seeing your competitors or people you admire doing so well, we can really get lost in believing that followers are everything.
Back to your question, I used to have a lot of guilt about social media. I think I spent like a year and a half basically just feeling really guilty that I wasn’t doing enough on there because I found it so hard to manage running social at the same time. Honestly, it hasn’t even been until about six months ago that I started getting help on social media, and for the first time, I feel like it flourishes without me. And that’s just incredible. It’s the best feeling ever.
Because suddenly I don’t need to feel guilty every single day of my life, especially with so many people being like, "Oh, I should have done reels earlier," or, "We're not very big on TikTok." And so I’m always like, "Oh my God, if only I’d started TikTok at the same time." But you can’t live with that. We’re all human, and we only have so much bandwidth to give.
At the beginning, I very much saw Instagram as a way to try and get myself out of that rut. I saw Instagram as, "You know what? I just want it to be a portfolio. If people see our Facebook ads and they click on the business, I want them to be able to see what we’re all about." So I’m thinking of it like that. I’m not going to obsessively look at the views on each reel. I’ll check it here and there to see what’s working, but I’d usually just post and not look at the views at all for like a couple of days, so I wasn’t. And I really saw it as like, you know, what success is that I posted, not what the results are, because you have so little control over the algorithm.
Fiona Killackey: I just feel like there are all these nuggets we need to put on t-shirts here, or like, you know, some sort of latch-hooking thing, because that’s so important to remember. I went to an amazing workshop on the weekend at that paper joint, and they’re going to come on the podcast soon, but it was a paper-collaging workshop, and I had so much fun.
I made this silly little bat wedding, and I found some bats and I found a wedding cake, and I was like, I was literally laughing to myself and like, "Ha!" And then this bee comes to the wedding. I was just being silly, and I thought, this is how social media used to feel. It used to, like, when Instagram first came out, and we had all these Kodak filters and like, "Oh, how should I photograph my, you know, hummus or my bread today?" Like, it was exciting and fun and enjoyable, and you didn’t think about…
Because I was in this workshop, I was like, nobody’s going to see this. This is just me having creativity and being fun, like your latch hooking and everything else. So yeah, I think it’s really important to remember that and go, what could I use this for? As opposed to that massive guilt that you just mentioned. I think so many people are going to resonate with that and feel like, yes, I feel guilty all the time when you’re not a publisher. That’s not your main thing—to put out content.
So yeah, with that though, we are going to move into your personal brand, because we’re talking about social media, and it is something that you created much more recently. Everyone can go and follow you at The Crafty CEO, and we’ll link to that in the show notes. But why did you decide to do that?
Fiona Killackey: Because a lot of brand owners will just have the brand’s social media, not themselves. And as much as we’ve just talked about it, not really taking it too hardcore seriously or letting it dictate your emotions, has it been hard to start again when you have 200,000+ followers on one account, and now you're trying to build up from zero on a new one?
Nakisah Williams: Yes, absolutely. Yes, speaking of feeling guilty all the time, that’s me again. I think for me, when I think about what I want the business to mean in my life, I’ve always reminded myself that Craft Club is a chapter of life, and not everything. And I think that has been so important for my mental health.
The thing is, I still give Craft Club 100% of my energy, and it sort of means everything to me right now. However, in order to be a sane human being, I do have to remember that it’s a chapter, because it sort of gives me the chance to realise that not everything is riding on this success. And it’s important to remember that life exists outside of Craft Club, and that maybe one day I’ll want to do different things.
Because the purpose of a business to me is to be able to give me opportunities in life and choice in life, that also means in the future, maybe being able to slow down when I have kids, or maybe being, you know, decades from now or ten years from now or anything to start different businesses.
I think once Craft Club had started to get its rhythm, and I felt like I could step back and think about the strategic running of the business a little bit more, rather than just like every single day putting out fires and really like being in the business every single day, it made me realise that being able to create a platform that was also for myself and my voice and the opinions I had—that were in line with Craft Club, and, you know, still very much the same values but also separate—was important.
Who knows? What if I sell the business one day, and then that's run by someone else? I wouldn’t be able to connect with the audience in the same way that I had. And I feel like with Craft Club, I’ve made so many incredible internet friends, and I wanted to be able to continue that community through my own page too.
Also, just talk about other things that you wouldn’t necessarily talk about on Craft Club. Like, people follow us for creative inspiration and creative education and that kind of thing. But I want to be able to talk about what it’s like to be a female entrepreneur or, you know, I want to be able to talk about my wedding. I can't post those wedding photos on Craft Club—that'd be ridiculous.
Fiona Killackey: Depends what you're wearing. If, like, you're crafting part of a wedding bag or something, you know, who knows?
Nakisah Williams: That’s true, that’s true. I do have wedding DIY plans in the works, so people should follow me for that. Yeah, it was really just being able to think strategically about the business made me realise it’s something I wanted to put my energy towards. But I also realised that I was getting all this creative inspiration by realising it wasn’t actually a business—it was just myself.
I was like, "Oh my God. I could post about the things that I love, like my outfits or my experiences of life or travelling," and that made me excited to get into social media in a way that I hadn’t been for a while with, like, the business press side of things.
Fiona Killackey: Amazing. So, on that, you said that you needed to pull away from, you know, like, or you had pulled away, and you could see a bit more strategically. And part of that was having the right staff in place, and you work with a bunch of your family members and so on, and other people who aren’t your family. But what has it been like to work with family? And how do you somehow monitor so that you’re not just talking about them at, say, a family barbecue or a birthday party about work? Like, how do you have that separation of work and life when you’re working with family?
Nakisah Williams: Oh my God, it’s so hard. I think so. I work really closely with my brother, who is an incredible videographer and photographer. So now he works in the business. He's also just like an incredibly creative digital man of all skills, which is amazing. So whenever I have like website questions, he’ll help improve the website. He works on emails and all this different stuff, which is amazing. And I feel so grateful that I am so close with him and that he wants to help create this business with me.
We also have his partner, Jasmine, who is a graphic designer. She also works on the business as well, and she's just like a branding superstar, which I love. And then, of course, my fiancé too, who I mentioned before, has a digital marketing background, so he helps me so much in that space as well. So all of us are always talking about business.
It can be really hard to switch off sometimes. I think that probably is a little bit more apparent with my relationship with my partner. Just because when you think of life as like you're building something together, a business is obviously a big part of that. So whenever we’re talking about our future, it inherently comes into play.
I think it’s been important for me to realise that I do need to make sure that I make time to not talk about the business with my family. Because I don’t want my brother to feel like that’s all I care about and, sort of like, time block dinners and things like that, where it’s kind of off the table and we’re not talking about the business at all, so we can just be ourselves.
And yeah, leave that space for other kinds of meaningful discussion that sometimes you forget when you're just at the office every single day.
Fiona Killackey: Oh my goodness, sounds so fun where you are. That and your brother sounds very creative. And again, hats off to your mum for raising two amazing creative people. Do you have any other siblings?
Nakisah Williams: No, just him. That you're super creative and you're also very inspiring, and people can hear it even from previously, what you've just said and talked about. You're very positive and upbeat, curious, and very, very creative. You had an issue recently with a pretty large retailer seeming to stock very similar items to yours. Obviously, you've said you designed them all, so you’ve got the original stuff and…
Fiona Killackey: They were kind of basically ribbing it off a little bit. This is something that a lot of creative people have to deal with. I have a lot of clients who will have a copycat version of something. And you decided to actually go down a path of like, "No, this is kind of annoying, let’s shout it out for what it is," versus just letting it overwhelm you or get you into a funk.
Do you think that’s just in your nature because you are like, that sort of line? You seem to be quite positive and like, "Okay, let’s be curious and how can I work this?" And also on that, like, was it just in your nature, or how did you get through that challenging moment? And also, what advice would you give to someone who's listening, who's being ripped off at the moment or there seems to be a copycat version of what they’re doing?
Nakisah Williams: Oh, my gosh. Copycats in creative spaces are just one of the most heartbreaking things. When I think of some of the hardest times in this business, part of those times have been moments where large companies have copied us, and it’s just been awful.
It really just feels like, so horrendous because you feel like you are so powerless to do anything. We had an experience earlier in lockdown as well with a large Aussie retailer. But more recently, we had a Spotlight release a very, very, very similar design. And I really wanted to turn it into a positive story and try and figure out a way to actually use the occasion to talk to them and say that you should be supporting small businesses rather than stealing from them.
And yeah, luckily it did work in our favour this time. I feel like we’ve built a really incredible community of people who are really supportive on social media. So the first thing that usually happens is that our community will reach out to us. I’ll usually find out about a copycat because I get DMs from people who have bought our kits and been like, "Oh my God, I saw this at a store, it's an identical copy to this," and they’ll let me know.
So in that way, I feel lucky that it’s the people in my community who inspire me to actually say something. If it wasn’t for that, at the very beginning, I never would have said anything. Because I would have felt so helpless and I would have felt like no one cares, so what’s the point? But now I’ve realised that speaking up about it is so important.
Not only for just telling the larger company that this isn’t okay, but also for reminding other small businesses that you actually do have power. We have a lot more power than we think. And oftentimes, using your community to call it out is sort of the only way that these big companies will listen to you. Because of course, if you just send them a polite email, they won’t have any of it – they’re just going to ignore you.
So asking people to kindly send the message or send them the post or DM them saying this isn’t okay is usually the only way that you will get action. I was lucky that with the Spotlight example, they explained the situation to me. I got to talk to them over a call, an email, and it ended up being a really positive end to the story, I suppose.
So with Spotlight, we’ve been able to turn it into a really positive experience. I really want to try and work with them in the future. I’m still talking to them over emails and having discussions. And so I think for me, turning something from a really negative, stressful experience into an opportunity has been important for me for feeling empowered in those situations.
I think that’s definitely a privileged thing to say because of course, sometimes shit happens that’s really awful and you don’t have the energy or the momentum to be able to try and transform it into something positive. But from my experience, it has felt like the only way for me to feel like I can get some sanity back in my life and feel like actually everything’s okay. It reminds me of the amazing community that we do have. So, yeah.
Fiona Killackey: Oh, and I love, love it so much. And on that community, and speaking of, you also have a big community in the US as well, who love what you’re doing. What have you done to hit up other markets? Like, obviously, we’re in Australia. There are a lot of people from the US who listen to this podcast – thank you! But how did you start that? Was it literally someone in the US saw your ad and then bought off the website? Or did you target the US particularly with ads? Or did you go after US influencers?
Nakisah Williams: US to begin with? It was definitely organic, where we had a few customers here and there find us. And we did international shipping so people could order. But when we properly decided to expand, it was very much a focused and thoughtful experience. I feel lucky that in this world of ecom, it's easier than it ever has been to connect with other markets around the world and ship to the US or to other places from Australia.
And so we actually did that through paid ads. So through our meta, ads like Instagram and Facebook, that kind of thing, we were like, okay, we're going to experiment. Originally, we didn’t spend too much money to begin with because we didn’t know if it was going to work. But we were like, okay, we're going to experiment. We're going to try targeting some of these countries just to see what happens, just to see if we can find the kind of people that connect with us and would value what we have to offer.
And it worked. It worked. So we started getting orders, especially from like the very east coast and west coast to begin with, which was so exciting. And then we just slowly, slowly dialled that up. We did have to make sure when we began we weren't optimising shipping or anything like that. We were paying crazy amounts to ship with post from Australia all the way to the US, but at the very beginning, it wasn't even about making it a profitable thing. It was just to know that it was even possible and that the product market fit was there at all.
So that's really how it started.
Fiona Killackey: Oh, I love it because people might be listening, thinking, "Oh, I need to employ a PR agency and I need to do all of this or go over to the US and be on the ground." But I love that you were like, no, just international shipping. That was a starting point.
And so on this, you have done so much yourself and you're obviously there determined and you've researched things and you're curious and hardworking. Have you had any mentors or books or podcasts that you listen to that help you with your business?
Nakisah Williams: Yeah, I mean, shameless plug for you, but absolutely. This podcast has been a huge, huge source of inspiration and mentorship for me. I'm obviously part of your group coaching for the last year. That's been an awesome experience.
I think the saying around you are the average of the five people that you surround yourself with is so, so true when it comes to business. And connecting with different mentors or other business owners has been so important in me being able to just like visualise what is out there beyond my own limitations.
So with you, it's been incredible, especially learning to be a better business owner and to understand all the different facets of my business and how to run it. We're also part of like an e-commerce mentorship community as well. And that has been so, so important for learning the very like technical steps to like how do you know that what you're doing is actually correct?
It’s by asking the people who have trodden that path before and asking them what they did, comparing your numbers, asking them if they can have a look at what you're doing and if they have advice. That has been so important because I think every single business has a slightly different business model, a slightly different industry, and finding those people who are exactly the same business model as you and asking for their help is so, so important.
Fiona Killackey: Oh, I love this. Okay, so we're going to go into a quick fire round. So whatever comes to mind is the right answer. There is no right or wrong. So, are you ready?
Fiona Killackey: Yes.
Fiona Killackey: What is your non-negotiable mental health or self-care kind of practice?
Nakisah Williams: Oh my gosh. Morning journaling. I do it every single day and I love it. I like morning pages. They're so important to me.
Fiona Killackey: Do you have like a cup of tea? Do you just do it straight out of bed? Where do you do this?
Nakisah Williams: I do it at my desk that I'm recording this on now. Yeah, I usually go for at like 6am, I go for a little run or some kind of movement or exercise and then I'll come home. And here's my little journal right here. This one's a Craft Club one. Same Craft Club one, yeah. Every single day. I like write in it every day. It’s like colour coordinated too, which I love. So that's a little bit of joy.
I put stickers, like colour coordinate stickers on every day and so that just makes me feel happy in the morning and it gives me a space to like vent all the stress and anxiety that I have as well.
Fiona Killackey: Such a good idea. Number two is early bird or night owl for getting work done.
Nakisah Williams: Oh my God, I'm such a night owl. But this year I have learned how valuable being a morning person actually is. If I'm left to my own devices, I will just like go to sleep at like 2am if you just leave me alone, I just won't go to sleep.
And I think it's a little bit of like the high energy ADHD. Like I never want to sleep. Sleep is boring. However, I have realised now that getting up in the morning and doing work in the morning is like the best work I do. So I have to force myself to be a morning person.
Fiona Killackey: Oh, okay. What does success look like to you? Beyond revenue.
Nakisah Williams: Oh, I think I said this earlier, but it's absolutely to have the power to choose what I want to do with my life. I don't know what the future is going to bring. I don't know what I'll want out of life in my 30s and 40s and in the future.
But I know that I wanna be able to have the choice to, you know, send my kids to school where I would like. I wanna have the choice to be able to slow down when I have kids. I want to have the choice, God forbid if something happened to my mum and I had to take care of her. I want to be able to have that choice to do that. And that is the most important thing to me with the business.
Fiona Killackey: Completely agree with this one. Because you have studied fashion and you're all into this stuff as well. Do you have one particular outfit or anything style-wise that always just makes you feel super confident?
Nakisah Williams: Yes, I have this pair. You would have seen them Fiona, because I've worn them multiple times to different events with you. I have this bright pink pair of Alice McCall pants which sadly I don't think that business exists anymore that are bright pink with this like black embroidery down the side.
And every time I wear them, I feel like such a cool boss babe. And it matches Craft Club’s vibe. And usually people remember me cause they'll be like, "Oh, the girl with the pink pants." So I love those.
Fiona Killackey: I do love a bold pair of bright pants for sure. What is your favourite way to celebrate a win?
Nakisah Williams: Going and having a little glass of champagne with my face. We try and do it if there's anything special to celebrate. Sometimes being in a small business, I can be really bad at actually celebrating the wins. So, I think having that special moment of going and having a little cheers is really important to me.
Fiona Killackey: I love it! And having someone to share it with, that’s so special. What's the best piece of advice you've been given?
Nakisah Williams: I don't know if this is actually advice someone gave me or if it's just like one of those things you learn from reading tons of books and that kind of thing. But my biggest advice that I would give my previous self is just to start somewhere and not focus on being perfect.
And I am still learning that myself as I grow my own personal brand. But you make the biggest achievements by just starting small. And when you start, the path becomes clear. You don’t need to know all the answers at the beginning. So that's the best advice I have received and would give to myself too.
Fiona Killackey: Oh, I think that is such important advice. And so what are you most proud of from your journey so far with Craft Club?
Nakisah Williams: I'm most proud of being able to connect with so many people around the world and to help them be creative. Because at the end of the day, I love the time that I spend being creative so much. And knowing that there are other people on the other side of the world who have had that experience just makes my heart full of joy.
I've heard a lot from customers sometimes that they never thought it was possible to be able to make something. They've never thought of themselves as an artist. And when they say that, "Oh my God, I can't believe I made this. Look at this photo." It’s just what I live for.
Fiona Killackey: It has been such a joy to chat to you as always. And so if people are listening to this and thinking, I want to connect with her, I want to check out her personal brand, I want to buy myself a kit or somebody else because they're really good gift ideas. What is the best place to connect? And then what's next for you? What's next for Craft Club?
Nakisah Williams: So you can find us, you can find the business at Craft Club Co on Instagram, where you can come and check out what we have, all of our creative goodies. You can also find me on The Crafty CEO as well. We're still a very, very tiny little community over there. So if you send me a DM if you want to reach out, I'm always there to chat and to connect and I would love to hear from people.
There are so many exciting things on the horizon. This year. So many new products that I am working on at the moment, new categories of craft. I'm always trying to do something different and find new ways that people can enjoy creativity.
We recently just launched woven bags where you can create your own fluffy, colourful handbag. They're not all colourful, so if you're a minimalist, there are options, but you can create your own fluffy handbag. And it's been awesome to see that our community is loving them so much. So go check them out as well. Amazing.
Fiona Killackey: Thank you so much for coming on.
Nakisah Williams: Bye.
Fiona Killackey: Oh, Nakisah is just next level, kind and considerate and curious and creative, and what she has built with Craft Club and her team is just exceptional. And I found that such an inspiring and thoughtful and beautiful chat.
And yeah, I sort of want to apologise for getting all teary, but, I mean, she's just so real and heartfelt and I just want to thank her for the generosity of sharing everything that she's gone through and being so real and vulnerable and open and coming on a podcast and sharing all of that. I just know it will help other people out there, and I know that her stepdad would be incredibly proud, as is her mum, of everything that she has been able to build.
I want to share two things that stood out for me, but before that, if you haven’t checked out Craft Club, go and check them out after this and go and support Nakisah on her personal brand building as well. So you can check out everything at craftclubco.com. You can also find them on Instagram under Craft Club Co. You can also find her, Nakisah, The Crafty CEO. And we'll link to all of that in the show notes for this as well.
But I want to highlight two things that really stood out. The first one, and this is something that Nakisah has also shared in group coaching. She is part of the group coaching cohort and that is: use social media as a portfolio. It's easy to look at brands like Craft Club and go, "Oh my God, you've got, you know, a quarter of a million followers. Like, wow, it must have been so easy."
And she talked about how it took forever to get to 15,000, and then viral things happened and that really helped. But the fact that she could show up consistently and have that idea that this is a portfolio—that she started Craft Club just simply as a portfolio to keep things there, to build it out, and to show her journey and show what she was working on, as opposed to going, “How many followers am I getting?” “Oh my goodness, this post tanked” or “This reel only got this many views.”
I feel like it's so easy on social media, even if you've been on there for years and years and years—even if your brand is quite old and established—to still get caught up with the metrics. And so often, they’re just vanity metrics. They don't actually mean anything. I have clients who have less than a thousand followers and are doing incredibly well, and I have clients, vice versa. I also have clients who have huge amounts of followers and are also doing really well.
So, there’s no rhyme or reason to this whole, “Oh, the more followers equals X.” But I love that she just treated it like a portfolio. I think more of us could do that and just be like, “I’m showing up to have fun, be curious, playful, see what works, see what doesn’t, but also just keep going and be consistent.” I think that is a huge and powerful lesson. Wherever you are in your business journey, use social media as a portfolio.
The other thing that she talked about a lot is this idea that community is power. She talked about an issue that had come up with a major, major retailer, and how her community was the greatest asset. Her community challenged them and rallied around her, championed the brand, and this has led to her, potentially, turning such a negative situation into opportunities for conversation for small business owners with these giant retailers.
I mean, she talks about going on TV and talking about it, and that is all exposure for the brand as well. But she wouldn’t have necessarily had all of that had her community not charged in to be like, “Hey retailer, what are you doing trying to, you know, potentially rip off a small business owner with these copycat designs?” And I feel like that idea, I mean, this is just Nakisah so much—turning a negative into a positive, seeing what she can learn from it.
I feel like that is her to a core. But I also feel like she has shown up as herself on social media, and it is, you know, you just can't help but fall in love with Nakisah. She's just so lovely to be around, so deep, funny, and all the good things. And I feel like she showed up as herself on that platform, and that has helped her build that community that has then gone on and on and obviously grown very much.
So, that idea of community is power is so important to keep track of and remind yourself. Along with the first point that I made around, you know, social media just being a portfolio, if that’s going to help you with your frame of mind to not get fixated on things like numbers or saves or engagement or whatever it is.
I mean, there’s so much other stuff that she talked about, defining her success beyond revenue, seeking mentorship, connecting your past experiences, and testing to make sure you've got a market fit. There’s just so much in this.
So, I want to say a massive thank you again to Nakisah for coming on, for sharing so much, for being so open and just really real and down to earth. And that’s exactly who I love working with and who I love talking to on this podcast. I think in the world of business, there’s so much fluff and smoke and mirrors, and it’s so nice to talk to people who really say, “This was a challenge. This part grew really well. This didn’t.”
You can look, get a quarter of a million followers and go, “Whoa.” Instead of thinking how hard it was for her to get to 15,000. I know that because we’re at about 14,000, and I feel like it has been a hard slog. I remember trying desperately to get to a thousand followers, and sometimes I think that effort and that, you know, what I put in then, you know, you can get complacent with it later. So, I love this so much.
There was also talk about her fiancé, who sounds amazing, and her supportive family. I just think, no shout-out to all of them as well. Because never is a business an island. A business is surrounded by other people to help it grow and build, and as are business owners.
So, go and check out The Crafty CEO on Instagram. Go say hi to Nakisah. Check out Craft Club. Honestly, we love their latch hooking kits and use them. I’ll be using them for a long time because, yeah, they just get you to focus in on something else and not be scrolling, not be getting caught up in the global situation. Just doing something that’s quite fun. And then you have, you know, an end result that is beautiful, looks amazing, and you’re like, “I made that.”
So thank you again, Nakisah. And that is it for today. If you want to go through this in text format or find links to anything that we talked about, you can find that at mysdailybusiness.com, podcast498. Thank you so much for listening. I’ll see you next time.
Fiona Killackey: Bye.
Thanks for listening to the My Daily Business Podcast for a range of tools to help you grow and start your business, including coaching programmes, courses and templates. Check out our shop at mydailybusiness.com and if you want to get in touch, you can do that by email at hello@mydailybusiness.com or you can hit us up on Instagram at mydailybusiness_. You can find us on TikTok at mydailybusiness or find me Fiona Killackey on LinkedIn. I look forward to connecting.
