Episode 78: Running A Small Business with A New Baby and A Family Health Crisis During A Pandemic - A Special Interview with Maggie May of Think Thornbury
In today’s guest interview episode, Fiona talks to Maggie May, an artist and co-founder of Think Thornbury, a retail space and creative workshop venue. Together with her partner, musician Josh Kelly, Maggie May has established a community-focused shop that supports “thinkers, makers and doers.” Listen now and get inspired by Maggie May’s story on managing a small business as a new mother while also dealing with a family health crisis during a pandemic.
Topics discussed in this episode:
Introduction
Catching Up
About Think Thornbury
Her Upbringing
Living with Dyslexia
A Family Health Crisis
Managing The Business During Covid, with A New Baby and Her Husband's Cancer Treatment
Curating The Store and Working with Stockists
On Having Mentors, Book and Resources Recommendations
On Tech Tools Used For The Business
On Social Media
On Doing Things Differently
Connecting with Think Thornbury
Connect with Maggie May and Think Thornbury
Episode transcript:
I try not to compare myself to other Instagram accounts or other stores that have seemingly very popular Instagram accounts, because it's not a direct reflection of how well their business is doing or how well my business is doing. It's just one barometer for popularity.
Hello and welcome to Episode 78 of My Daily Business Coach podcast.
Today, you're in for a treat. I am interviewing an incredible small business owner who really has had to walk the line between life challenges, health challenges and all of the challenges that covid presented to small business owners in 2020 and continues to still present. Maggie May is an artist and she is one half of the duo behind Think Thornbury, which is an incredible space for creatives and thinkers and doers and makers in the inner north, in Melbourne, in the suburb called Thornbury and Maggie started off as an artist. And in this conversation she talks about how she went from creating art, why she was attracted to that art into actually having a physical store with her partner, Josh, who is a musician. He plays the saxophone in bands JK Group and 30/70.
Now, I first came across Maggie May, I don't know, maybe a year and a half ago or so. And then we connected through Instagram, of all things, right around the time that I was kind of getting ready to launch this podcast, actually, and launched my book. And Maggie May and Josh are incredible supporters of that book. And they stuck it at Think Thornbury, thank you very much. But Maggie and I ended up know how we got from Instagram DM's to talking on the phone and we just connected and hit it off. And I just felt that she's such a genuine, warm person who really wants to create a space that champions creatives, but is also for the makers and also more than anything else, is a space that people know they can come to and find the absolute perfect, well considered gift for their loved ones.
So I started the podcast, and every single week I felt that Maggie was listening to the podcast and she was giving me feedback and it was so, so, so welcome. And I knew that I absolutely had to have her on this podcast and I'm so excited that she said yes. So in today's episode, we talk about what it was like to build a business with your partner, but also what it was like to then have that business be challenged in some way, celebrated in other ways by motherhood and by more recently Covid. And then at the start of Covid, her husband, her partner in life, Josh Kelly, being diagnosed with cancer. So any one of those things can be a lot to deal with. You know, running a business during Covid, having a very young child or having a partner have cancer very unexpectedly. Of course, he's so young. Not that you expect it with anyone, but especially not at that age group. And so I've watched her from the outset deal with so many things that have come her way but continue to show up and be this positive beacon for her local community. Maggie is just such a transparent, honest, genuine person. And that really comes through in our chat today and in everything that she puts out there. So I hope you really, really enjoy this hope that you do take the time after listening to this to go and connect with Maggie May and Josh. You can do that on Instagram at @thinkthornbury or @maggiemayyy_ and just let them know. What did you really take away from today's chat and what really resonated with you? So here it is, my interview with the artist and co-founder of Think Thornbury, Maggie May.
Welcome, Maggie, I'm so excited to have you on the podcast. How are you feeling right now? It's been a crazy 18 months to two years for you and we're going to get started into that soon. But how are you feeling right now? How are you feeling from the last year that we've had?
I'm feeling really great today. Like today. It's been a really good day. This week's been a really good week. We've had a lot on and just juggling all of that and trying to get everything to coexist in a kind of like, amazing little ecosystem in our world has been a challenge. But I feel like we've we've really managed it quite well this week. So and that's been quite different to the last year and a bit. So we're getting there.
Oh, good. And I feel like I mean, especially for you, but I feel like anyone going through the whole world I feel like we could do is go today was good. This week was good. You know, like just take a little bit of the time.
Definitely taking it day by day is been a really important thing in my life in the last year. And a bit of just like what change can I expect today and what do I have control over and not freaking out when real challenges arise and being able to have like a really good humour about when challenges do arise, being like, OK, well, this is the situation we're in, how can we tackle it really positively?
Oh, thank you. And I should just say that you're doing that right now because Maggie had to come on and record this again because I stuffed up. So this is the second recording we've done in a week. And thank you for being so incredibly positive about this experience. So you are living the talk right now.
You probably find like, you know, as with everything in life, like technology sometimes doesn't work exactly the same way that we hope or expect it to. And when things don't work out, it's like, all right, cool. Well, what can I do in this situation to just have good humour and be like moving forward? And I want everyone to be able to take that because when when really, really hard things happen, if you can approach them with that same kind of like practise runs for life, it's like, you know, maybe hitting record on a podcast is like the worst thing that could possibly happen in your wake. But there are other things that are just not to diminish, like so much more important stuff. But you can have like your life can just change so quickly and really dramatically in a way you never thought it could. And how you deal with that challenge, that's that's whether that's the kicker.
Yes. And you have dealt with an incredibly dealt with so many challenges. He'll get stuck into that in a second. But people listening right now would have just heard me talk about being Think Thornbury and how you and I came to meet and cross paths and how fantastic I think you are. But can you describe what your business is and all the different elements? Because you're an artist, Josh, your partner is an artist, and then you run things somebody as well.
So can you talk us through the actual business that you run?
Think Thornbury is just like the culmination of all of the creative things about life at the moment. So at the moment, Think Thornbury is this amazing gift store in Thornbury. So we stuck local makers and things that I find really beautiful and amazing and that would just make the best possible gift.
And that's really come out of a huge background from Josh and I collaborating on it, of I'm an artist and I studied interior design and graphic design at uni. I have a degree in those. I did a year of industrial design as well, which was something that my family really wanted me to do. But, you know, and when you're eighteen and your mother says you should do this at university, you got into the course. I was the the kind of teenager that did what they were told. And Josh was a musician and super creative and really interested in life. And and we really wanted to build a business that kind of reflected all of our creative goals. So I had been working in the field that I trained in and then also working at this amazing T-shirt printing place and discovered textile art that I just fell head over heels in love with, which has been around for a really, really long time. It's macrame or people all over the world will call it lots of different things like makram or macrame. But I think you need to focus less on how to pronounce it, more on what it actually is. And then, you know, putting your own original into it, I feel like the work that I make now really isn't what people would expect when they hear macrame or macrame. So I've been doing it for a really long time and for the last couple of years. And I think that the work that I make now is just so, so different to what I was introduced to it as a craft. And I think it's the same with think somebody we want to be just so much more than your average gift store.
Oh, I love that so much. And you are so much more than and I mean, that leads me into what I was going to ask you next, which is you just have this incredible passion for what you do and you have a real love of the labels and the books and the authors and everything that you bring into your store and bring into your community as well. Can you take us back to kind of a star like you said before, you you studied these things and you got into making and became an artist. But we like that as a child. We use super creative ways that just. Yep, I can see my path ahead of me. That's where I'm going to end up doing something creative. With that being in your childhood and upbringing.
Yeah, I think it was I think I was given the space to be creative, which I think is the fundamental thing with creativity is like being given that space as a child to be like whatever you're doing right now is just a really good expression rather than it being right or wrong and just feeling like anything I did within that creative arena would be encouraged and nurtured. So I suppose and in that regard, I was incredibly lucky. And then within creativity, like, you know, making and doing and reading and writing.
And I should it's really funny. I didn't mention this the first time we recorded the podcast, but I'm actually dyslexic. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. It's really I thought about it afterwards and I was like, God even mentioned that. Yeah, I you're recording again. I know. See, it's just like life presented with these opportunities to just constantly do things and grow. And when you react to them really positively and with good humour, you're giving yourself that opportunity to do it.
So, yeah. So tell us about that. How is that growing up and especially when you're a bit younger than me. But I know that I've got some friends that have that even my uncle had it his whole life and never knew until well, well, well into his 40s or 50s even. But what was it like? Did you know that you had it?
It didn't get picked up until I was leaving primary school. So up until that point, I think everyone just thought I was really stupid or that I had a lot of problems with, like processing in terms of writing and putting things in order in my brain. And maths has always been something that I've really struggled with, which isn't necessarily a huge thing for people who are dyslexic, but definitely people who have a little bit of a processing difficulty. And one side done some testing at the Royal Children's Hospital and they said, yep, she's definitely got some things going on there. We just need to give her the space to be like supported and encouraged. And I definitely didn't feel that when I was in primary school, I got made to feel that I was really stupid a lot of the time because I wasn't keeping up with my peers, which was really, really hard. So creativity was like and being in the art room at school, that was a really safe space for me to feel really encouraged and supported.
And like I wasn't getting things wrong, if that makes sense. Yeah, totally makes sense. I'm so sorry that you that you went through that. Oh, thank you. It's like I feel like this kid's trying to figure things out. And if you're constantly being told that you're really stupid and that the thing that you are good at, which for me was anything that came out of class wasn't as valued as the other aspects of school life. It was it was really hard. And I yeah, I felt really other than in school and even in in high school it was which was a whole different thing. But, you know, I still I really loved reading and would quite often have like in high school, I'd have teachers where I'd be talking to them about the books we were studying. They like you've just expressed everything that I needed you to write down in an essay without me prompting you. Why can't you write it in the essay? And I'm just like, I can't. I never tested. Well, it was I could never sit down and write an essay. And it's something that I really, really had to work on as an adult. And that's kind of how I started my Instagram account, too, because I used to take photos and then it was my daily writing challenge to add a caption to that. Oh, well, yeah. And then middle aisle, which is what the account was called. And now it's Maggie may underscore because I just changed it recently. Yeah. It was my daily writing challenge and I ended up just writing these insanely long captions that I would constantly get comments from people being like, I don't read the captions on Instagram, but I read yours.
Oh, so. Yeah. Oh, I love that. Gosh, I'm so glad that we talked about this. Yeah. None of this came out the first time we recorded reference for this. Yeah. Gosh, that's that's amazing, and I feel like so many of us go through different challenges and different times, high school or primary school, and even my son recently went through just this very tiny thing at primary school. And as a parent, you're like, oh, I want to protect you and never have to go through those things. But then you're like, that's how you build resilience. That's how you build empathy. That's you've got to go through that, unfortunately.
Yeah. And just like having that space is like as a parent to be able to like, how do I support this person that I love so much to go through those those challenges?
Yeah, it's so true. It reminds me, I dated this boy once for a long time. I thought he was like the one. And when I broke up when he broke up with me actually, and I told my mom and she said I knew he wasn't right for you from the start. And I was like, how can you never say anything? And she's like, because you're an adult, you need to you need to figure it out yourself. It's like all of your parents, you know, I can't do that for you. Yeah, I totally think that's the right right attitude.
And I joke about that all the time because I'd had boyfriends before him. But he's three years younger than me. So I joked that I saved him from that bad adult relationship. He just went straight to to me.
And so speaking of Josh, Josh is your life partner, your business partner and your business and your life, the both of you have evolved and changed so, so much over the last few years. Obviously, it has impacted everyone, but even prior to that, both just becoming parents for the first time. Can you talk us through what it was like to become a mom and then also more recently manage a huge life changing health crisis and challenge with your partner? And I should point out, again, you can go and follow me on Instagram, but also definitely check out Josh Kelly, a musician who will link to in the show notes as well. But, yeah, can you talk us through what it's been like the last two years or what it feels like?
It's just one challenge after another. And there'd be some days where I'd be like, can today just be not as hard because I really need a break because I feel like I'm going to just absolutely lose the plot because it has been so hard. We were just so incredibly fortunate with Justin. I had got married and he was leaving on his first European tour with his band, 30/70 to go to the UK. And they also did Europe and some of France. It was very exciting.
And the week before he left was obviously a really fun time for us because it was also the things on his first birthday. And then by the time Josh got to the UK, I had to call him and say hi. So we were really lucky. First months of trying for a baby. I got pregnant and I feel really, really blessed. That it did happen that way, even though I definitely was like, oh, my gosh, how did this happen so quickly? Because I wasn't expecting it. I had thought it would take much longer and had been prepared for that. And then when I did fall pregnant so quickly, it was a real like, oh, gosh, OK. And my partner's on the other side of the world and he'll be on the other side of the world for another six weeks. I was instantly incredibly unwell and I was the first in my group of friends to be pregnant and have a child. And so my gauge of what normal morning sickness was like was just really, really far off. And it wasn't until Josh got back from tour and was like, oh, my gosh, no, this is this is really bad. I'm taking you to the hospital. And that was when I got diagnosed with hyperemesis, which is like the very, very bad morning sickness. So my pregnancy was really challenging. And I was also still working in the store full time. I was still teaching workshops as well, which was a hilarious concept. I think back on it now. And I'm just like, how did I even do that? Because, you know, I'd have a full soldat workshop of really happy and excited women upstairs. And I'd be like, I'm just going to pop downstairs to the bathroom for a moment, go downstairs, be horrifically ill, and then walk upstairs like nothing had happened. And like they'd have a great class. And everyone left with five star reviews. But it was it was a really, really, really challenging time. And then I ended up having an emergency C-section because things went south there as well. And I was in hospital. But then I got back to work and Remi was seven days old and I was back at work and in the store with me.
You know, it was really like we just didn't have an option.
We had, like, one person helping us out in the store occasionally, but we were still really ad hoc. It wasn't like we're still trying to figure out what we're doing. And I always busy and growing and.
Yeah, it was it was a really interesting 12 months, that first year of Remi's life, of balancing all of those things coexisting and really, you know, growing the business whilst also looking after tiny human. And I should also mention when Remy was four months old, Josh went overseas again on the second European tour. No Josh, which was like happening.
And Josh and I co is in life like our business and our child and his musical career and my artistic career that all equally important. So there was never a question of whether or not he was going to go. It was just how we managed it. And I will say when I saw a picture of him dancing at a festival and I was at home with a very small baby, I was like, I'm going to divorce you, but not now. And I think that exists in every relationship. It doesn't necessarily matter whether or not your husband's on the other side of the world. This times where you you have to figure out all those things, particularly when you need parents. And we would do it differently now, I think. And we are doing it differently now, which is exciting. But that was such a great tool for them and so incredibly important. And as it turned out, it was the last one that they were able to do until covid hit. And on that tour, Josh was starting to have symptoms where he was increasingly unwell, which we were putting down to him being touring in a new parent and trying to figure out what was going on. And when he got back to Australia, we started to try and investigate it a bit more because it just was becoming clear that it wasn't him just being really tired. And it still took a really long time. But Josh was diagnosed with Hodgkin's lymphoma, which is a blood related cancer. Wow. Which is not something you expect to happen to your 28-year old husband. And we were we were really hit for six. And he also was diagnosed after covid had started as well. So his diagnosis in the wake of my birth. So it was we were waiting for the results to come back after we'd finally found an immunologist to investigate it. And yeah, it was it was a really that was a really tough week. Oh, my God.
Like, well, I can't even imagine a new baby is a big enough thing, let alone trying to run a business during covid and then having this. Oh my God. It's like triple triple whammy. Yeah. It was really the trifecta of challenges. How did you cope? Did you just think I should just shut down the business?
Like what what sort of went on in your mind at that time?
Well, certainly at the start when covid was really starting to hit Melbourne and we had the first lockdown and this was before Josh had been diagnosed. And so we were still just dealing with covid in baby. We looked at each other and were like, oh, my gosh, do we just cut our losses and run because we don't have a Web store built? And it's going to be an insane amount of work to get all of the stuff online. But also, how will we sell it? How would we close the business? What does that even mean? So I think we just did what we've done a lot of times where we just doubled down and went.
We just have to dig into whatever reserves of of resilience we have right now and really just make it work, because this is our like for lack of a better word, dream. But this is this is what we've been building. This is what we've been really working towards. And we just need to trust in our own abilities and that we can make it work. So we got a Web store together, which was a phenomenal amount of work. It's when you go on to someone's website and you just click through products and you kind of view it really quickly, you don't know how much has gone in there into the back end. Like the Web store is the last thing in all of these, like picking the stock, ordering the stock, the stock arriving, photographing the stock or finding the photos of the stock from the suppliers, writing the product descriptions, uploading them into vende, which is our software inventory management system, and then figuring out whether or not that integrated with the website or which we ended up using Shopify, because they actually work quite nicely together, finding a template that we really like for Shopify, which, you know, and then building that and making that look really beautiful and then fixing our branding and doing the graphic design, making sure all of the images look really consistent. If you go to the things on my website, I'm super proud of how consistent it looks.
And that is just down to hours and hours of being on Photoshop, making sure that everything looks beautiful because it's just nothing more annoying to me than when I go onto a website. And it's not, you know, it's just this mismatch of products. And I always wanted our website to be better than a mismatch of products. I wanted it to really be a platform for the products to shine. And that's the same as the store. Like if you come into the store, everything is on display beautifully. So I, I wanted the website to feel the same way as the store. So we were just working hours and hours on that.
We closed the shop front and started offering free local delivery and that just took off like slowly at first because I think everyone was getting into the groove of ordering online. And by the time we hit second lockdown where there was the five kilometre radius in Melbourne that you couldn't go without.
I totally get it. I lived through it with you. Yeah, it's so traumatising. We got the five kilometre radius. It was horrible. We can take five kilometres from your home.
And that seems like a really funny thing to think about now. But it was like you were just locked in. And I remember people being like, how do we live our lives and do the things that we need to? And you could only go out of the house once a day and it was only one member of the family to do shopping. It was incredibly limiting. We felt that our service to the community was free local delivery, even though it took us time, and if someone was ordering a present for their friend or family member and they couldn't take it, we needed to approach that as if we were that person and we were there, Ambassador. And we just had to be the love in the present sandwich.
Well, I love that so much. And you are like you're such a community driven business. And a lot of people talk about that like, oh, we for the community. But like you would genuinely, you and Josh genuinely care about your local community.
And I think with what's going on through covid, we just saw such love and a pouring of love and support for Think Thornbury from that community, especially with everything that you were facing with Josh's health issues, how did you build that community? Because that support and that love Think Thornbury didn't just happen by itself. So was it intentional or did it just sort of organically grow? And I guess second to that, what advice would you give to others who want to cultivate a genuine, caring community around their business, but they're not really sure where to start?
I think the key is like whether you said in there, it's like it has to be genuine. We want our community to support us because they're close by to us, which in one regard like your community can be far reaching. And it can also be, you know, your neighbours, the people who are in your immediate vicinity and how you talk to all of those people. It just has to be genuine and you have to be doing it from a place of like what are our values and how does everything we do connect back to those things? So doing free local delivery for us was incredibly time consuming and probably not as cost effective as if we just given everyone, like free postage and stuck it in a post bag, like doing the the delivery runs and things. And also, I have to mention that everything that leaves the store is giftwrapped. We don't not giftwrap things. Things aren't just put in a bag. So it wasn't like we were getting 30 to 50 orders a day and just putting them in a bag and dumping them on people's doorsteps. There was a handwritten note. It was gift wrapped and that only comes out of a real love and a real generosity and being genuine of like I want the person that your friend bought you to get to you as if they had brought it to you themselves, because that's the connection that they're missing. And if we're a business in the area and we want to provide that service, then that's what that needs to be. And it's just you need to apply that to your own business. And if that's something that you're trying to achieve, like how does that work for you and your business? And it doesn't have to be from the scale of one to 10, like where do you want to hit and be that for your business and everything you do? You can't manufacture that community. It doesn't just instantly happen. It happens over years. It happens over every conversation I've had in the store. I know people's names. I remember what they gave the last person that they bought a present for in the store. People come in and they'll buy just a card. And that card is just as important to me as if someone came in and spent three hundred dollars, which also again, seems crazy. But all of those genuine little interactions, that's what makes up our community. It's so important to treat everyone with that generous spirit because that is what builds that community totally.
I could not agree more. And I know because I've bought stuff from think the memory of the wrapping is just beautiful. You're like, oh, always for myself. So I'm always like, this is a gift.
The first thing you bought was an embroidery kit. And that's not even like just because I know you. I remember saying it and that was in a day of like another thirty orders and feeling like really excited and like, oh, I hope she really likes it when she gets unwrapped. So that's really exciting. And I wonder if it's a present for her or someone else.
No, it's for me because I was like I need to do things in the evening that not on a screen like watching TV or.
Yeah. So how are those embroidery kits are just beautiful. And the lady that makes them as well, she's another local Melbourne creative and watching her business grow and being able to send her back orders and be like, yeah, I need another fourteen. And her just being like, oh OK. Yep, I'll have them on Sunday. Good stuff. Like it's just being really surprised and excited. It's it's really beautiful.
You are so excited and enthusiastic about everything that you stock. And I know that because my book is one of the things the stock and the amount of people that send me a message saying, oh, you know, I'm just through a book I bought it at Think Thornbury Maggie was telling me how great it was, and I was always like, oh my gosh, you're like my personal payoff.
That's an amazing book.
Oh, thank you. But you do the same like one of or other stuff. And you're like, oh, you know, this vegan book is amazing and this thing's amazing. Like, you're really, really into the people and the stories behind what you're selling. You're not just like, oh, I need to have that because it's like a cool label that everyone has.
So do you have a checklist of such for what you bring into the store or how do you decide, like, who makes the cut? And I guess where do you find these people?
I think that I'm genuinely interested and curious about what people are making and doing in my community. So I'm just constantly looking and I'm constantly thinking about looking and definitely is something that's always open in the back part of my brain of like, oh, that's really cool. Could we put that in the store? That would make a great presence of this kind of person that was looking for this sort of thing. And how does that work with the other things in the store? Really try and make sure that there's something for everybody, I think, and not necessarily things that I love all the time. Because when you're curating a store, you need to think about your community so we don't stock things just for the sake of having them. Everything there has a place and a really important purpose. And I take knowing what I know about the products really seriously, because I want to be able to educate and tell people exactly like this is one part wonders. It's written by Jess Prescott. She's a local. This is her third cookbook. And it's amazing the potato spiced seasoning, which is on page 16 or 17. Love, if I got that right right now, it will rock your world like make a jar of it, keep it in the pantry. It's so good. Also, there's a salad in there that we make at least once a week because the dressing is just so good and that doesn't come out of me just like being like, well, this is really great because you should have it in your house because it's the hottest vegan cookbook. It's like, no, these are delicious recipes. I cooked them really into them. And you will really like them as well.
Yes. And if I didn't already own that book, I would be rushing out to buy it because it made it sound so good. Yeah.
And it's always like really amazing new books coming out, too. And that's not to discredit the books that were released two years ago. Like Heddy, MacKinnon's community is still one of the best selling books that I have in the shop. She's just amazing. And she's written three books since then. And each one of those books is Straight Fire.
They are so good, so good.
So someone's listening to this and they're like, oh my gosh, they either know your store or they're going to look up Think Thornbury on the website or an Instagram. What advice do you have for people who are listening who potentially like I would love to be stocked in that shop, like how do they get their pieces in? Do you have a way of working with stockists? Do you have something you're looking for in particular?
Sometimes it's a really practical thing of like, oh, yes, we need another card to fit this kind of part of the store, we don't have something there. And other times it's just like, am I really excited and interested in what they're doing? I would think if you're someone who's making something and wants to be stocked in the store, you need to really look at that store first, because it's not just necessarily about whether that store wants you, but do you want to be stocked in that store because they're the people that are going to rep you and you want them to be excited about your product. And also just making sure that you're ready to be in a store, so having your wholesale list ready, making sure that you're packaging is meeting the standards of the other things that are in the store.
Like so many times, I've had people apply to be in the store and they come in and it's all loose and it's not ready to go. And it's like, well, actually, I need it to be ready. It needs to be a finished product.
And what does that mean? Like if you were selling this to a customer right now, what do they expect, particularly knowing what price people will pay for things? So it's having that kind of clear perspective on your own business to be able to approach another business and say, I would like to work with you. How do we go about that? And being really respectful to like we get lots of applications and I don't always have the time to get back to people. And it's not necessarily because I don't want to, but it's because I'm so incredibly time poor and and particularly in the last 12 months when I've been supporting my husband, going through chemotherapy and looking after an almost two year old, it's it's not necessarily that I don't want to spend the time mentoring and encouraging people, but it's also it's not a free service that I offer.
How important do you think? Like, do you look at things like, say, brand story or kind of the supply chain if people are making it or getting it made offshore, is that something that people should have that ready? Or do you feel like some people come in and just sort of like, my earrings are cool, you should take them?
Oh, nothing annoys me more when I have people approach me or add things to their brand that say sustainable, organic, vegan, locally made ethical. Ethical is a real buzzword when there's nothing to back that up. Like what precisely about your product makes it sustainable and ethical. Because if you're making things out of cotton and saying that it's vegan, of course it's vegan, always vegan. And there's no point trying to add that buzzword to it, to you signal to people that this is safe to give to a vegan or it's somehow better to buy that because of that. There's a huge thing in the selling world where people will be like, oh, it's supplied on recycled cotton cones. Yes, it's definitely not a cotton cone. That's how they come from the factory. You are then wrapping it in plastic is not sustainable. And yes, your product needs to be packaged so that it doesn't get dirty in transit, but also it's been brought over from another country. So it's not Australian cotton, it's not grown here. And that is a whole other just like the way that we grow cotton in Australia is also really interesting and not without its own problems. And these things that we really need to consider when we are starting new companies, we are trying to sell things because you can't just add words to something and be like it's sustainable. What about it is sustainable? Like really clearly. Explain it to me, because I want to know not just because I'm trying to like have a go at someone, but because we need to understand what those mean, those words mean if we're going to communicate that to our customers. Because if you are just saying that sustainable so that you can green wash it and make your customers feel better about their purchases, then that's not something I'm really interested in.
Oh, I love that answer. And just putting responsibility back on people when they should have it, because I think sometimes people like I'll just check in on and it will sell. And I think it's great that that places like Think Thornbury are actually pushing back to be like, what do you actually mean? I think we've seen it with other with food products that say natural, organic and as if that equates to health. So there's so many areas that are kind of grey there. So in your business, which you've run successfully and despite many, many challenges, what do you think has helped you most with building that business? Have you had any mentors? Have you done any courses? Did you have to up level on anything or have there been books or films or just anything that's really helped you?
I definitely, at the start of 2020, really started investigating and trying to educate myself better about what it meant to run a really successful business in terms of the profitability mindset, because we needed to make our business profitable and we needed to have an income from it.
Part of 2020 was that just suddenly had no income from A teaching or B making music, which had been something that we'd had to supplement our income. So suddenly it was just purely the shop and what the shop was bringing in. And I took that really seriously. And then again, when Josh was diagnosed and was couldn't work, he couldn't even do deliveries. There's nothing quite like your partner, the person you love most in the entire world, getting cancer that really lights a fire under your arse of like I have to take myself seriously and I have to be the person that provides for my family. So even whilst I was wrapping orders and working in the business, I was listening to podcasts. I was trying to find time to read books at the start of 2020 when I started listening to your podcast was one of the ones that I started to listen to and I was like, oh yes. And it was really empowering because I was like, I can do this. I really having that encouragement and breaking things down really, really helped. So I also listened to other podcasts like Listen to Seven Am, which is the Saturday Morning Papers podcast, and I listen to Hindbrain, which there's a really great quote. That's like if you only have music then you don't have music. And it kind of boils down to this idea that if the only thing you're focusing on is one thing, then that thing isn't going to be as good because you need to have lots of outside influences coming into it. So I try and think about what I'm doing within my business and myself as this thing that needs to be constantly nurtured from all different sources. And it's not just listening or taking advice from one source. It's all of those great, creative, interesting things that make the world so beautiful and dangerous at the same time.
Oh, I love it. And I totally I totally agree. Sometimes I'll just be reading on it. I like it. Some sort of fiction and it'll be I use this great online platform. Well, this company will read. And so Laura who runs will read. It's like a subscription service. And so you get a book sent straight to your mailbox. I just do it every second month and the books that I haven't chosen. So it's always interesting to read them, I think. And yet reading some fiction that you wouldn't have normally chosen and then suddenly you get these are like, oh, that's such a good idea. I should do that in my business. And it's totally unrelated to business, like a business book.
But upfront, I have such good ideas in the shower and that's where I listen to podcasts.
Oh, I know you're always like I just listened to it in the shower. How do you listen to it in the shower? Do you have it really, really loud or do you have some sort of waterproof radio?
Maybe we just have a really bad shower. It's really funny. We live out the back of the store now. When we first moved into Thornbury, we lived in this self-contained unit that's out the back. But when covid hit, we had to move into the the workshop space. So the shower in the bathroom that's inside the store is like quite old and not as good. But I put the little Bose speaker up on the top of the shower and then I crank it.
I love that. But yes, also, aside from your Bose speaker, what other, like technology to just can't live with that when it comes to your business. You've mentioned Shopify, obviously. I know that's a big one for a common brand. Do you have any other kind of tech tools or platforms that you just die without?
When we first opened the store, we wrote paper receipts and managed our stock with with spreadsheets. And as we grew, that got really problematic, particularly because I now have a box of paper book receipts that I have to keep forever or until I'm my accountant says I'll have to throw them away. But we switched over to Vend, which is a software inventory management system, and it just makes my life so, so much easier. It integrates with Shopify. So I know what stock we have in the store or what we should have in the store, which we can then do stock takes and it makes ordering much easier. I don't like in the early days, I would physically have to go into the store and count how many things I had and say like how many candles do I have left? And now I can just pull up the. I've only got four left, I really have to place another order, but I think in the beginning I wasn't aware of where our stock levels were. And so I was missing opportunities to reorder and have that stock in the store when it needed to be. And now it's way easier to manage it. And it's much more intuitive, which anyone who's listening to this and has a small businesses like, oh my gosh, they didn't manage the store with a software based system when they opened it. That's crazy.
And it's like, you know, you look crazy. I've I've had friends who have stores for like seven years and just did on pen and paper.
Yeah. That's how I'd been trained to do it in other people's stores. And so that's when I knew. And I think that was coming back to education and doing things better in your business. Like that's one thing that really, really changed my life in terms of being able to order stock and figure out what we're looking at and being able to have a really clear look at where our margins are and how important that is for our profitability as a business and being able to continue to keep doing that beautiful community things we need to do, because at the end of the day, we're still running a business and it definitely needs to be profitable.
And I think that comes back to that whole idea that you had about I'm going to step up. And obviously you had a huge incentive that, you know, does not happen to most people. But I think, yeah, everyone I work with, I'm always like, you've got to look at the analytics. I know that I'll hear a lot of the time. Oh, I'm not a numbers person. And I think a lot of times people just sort of go, I'll do that at some point. But I and it will be sometimes 10, 15 years. And they still don't know the analytics. So I completely agree with you that the more knowledge you can have, the better.
This Christmas was a game changer. I was able to look back at what we did last Christmas and the Christmas before and be able to see which things people were really loving in the store and then identifying them and being able to grow and develop our own Think Thornbury products, which is really proud of that. We did we did a beautiful candle with Bun Loks, which I remember when I placed the order and I was like, okay, we're going to get these.
And hopefully they sell and people really like them and not left with all of these candles that I can never get rid of. And the sold out, we're about to do a rerelease of them because they were just so incredibly popular. And I'm probably I'll do a pre-order for them because it's just lemon myrtle, black pepper and tea tree. It's a candle that just like it sings, it's called Happy Days Are Here Again. And it was like it was so lovely seeing people come into the store and being like, oh, I wasn't even coming in to get a candle. But this is just it's everything that I think they'll breeze. And that is based off being able to look at what things people really love in the store and which brands we really want to work with and support and how we can do what we do better all the time. We also did 2021 commemorative tea towel with a local artist, and I love it so much. It's just so fun and joyful. And we did a soap with soap club which matched the candle. So it was this really beautiful set. And again, I was like, oh, we're going to be left with all this soap. And we were like, yeah, they sold out. There are still a couple of the towels because I think there are really specific thing. But if you're wanting to like get in on the ground level of like we're going to do those towels every single year, it was actually cheaper to print them on linen than it was on paper. And I was like, well, of course we're going to do that. That's a product that will last and we'll have a use outside of that primary use, which is the calendar for the first year.
Oh, I love that so much. So on that note, like you obviously know, your stock is the people that are putting their product in. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And you can go to them and be like, hey, we should do this. One thing I know that's also helped build your community and you mentioned it before in terms of just your own kind of challenge with writing is social media. And so I know that especially at the moment and I think here in Australia, where we've seen this massive shutdown of media on channels like Facebook because of, you know, Facebook wanting to continue to make its money and being a business. After all, that's what it is. I think we can forget social media.
It's so funny. When that happened, the day that it happened and the news was turned off like and everyone's like, how could we have possibly seen this coming? And I was like, I knew about this because I listen to 7am and they were talking about it last year on the podcast. I knew this was coming. Yes, I did. Yeah. Being interested and curious about the world pays off.
And also I love, like, oldies, you know, like The Guardian. And everything came out like, hey, you can still get news on the actual news platform.
I generally rate us I took the opportunity that day to just be like, hi, I hope everyone's got their Guardian subscription up to date because independent journalism, that's where it's at, like my paper. Paul Bongiorno. Oh, I love them.
In our house, we like addicted and obsessed with [inaudible]... Also, he's like the number one celebrity in our house. So if anyone knows him, he's listening. Please tell him that I love him. My question was actually around social media, because I know I was going to say because of that thing that happened recently and before that anyway, there's been a lot of like there's always love hate relationship between small business and social media because people feel like we need it. But then the same time and I see so many small business owners will feel comparison when they get on there, they'll feel like, oh, no one likes my post or no one's like this, I guess. How have you kind of worked with social media to help your business? And I guess what advice would you give to people potentially who are just starting out? And it is harder to grow your brand on social media these days. But yeah. What advice would you have, I guess have you used it for good and not bad, but for good for all kinds of purposes?
I think remembering that it's a pay to play platform and that sponsored posts will always be pushed above organic growth because at the end of the day, they're businesses and that it's just one method of communication and also that social media is a barometer for popularity and it's skewed. It's not true. Like people can buy followers, friends can have like huge followings, and it doesn't necessarily mean that they are profitable business. And just taking it with a grain of salt like it's definitely feels really great when you post something and you get a lot of comments. So you get a lot of likes for it. But what does that actually mean in your business? Because if that's not translating to sales, then it's just it's just the optics of it. So I try not to compare myself to other Instagram accounts or other stores that have seemingly very popular Instagram accounts, because it's not a direct reflection of how well their business is doing or how well my business is doing. It's just one barometer for popularity.
I love that and I completely agree with you and having seen the back end of so many different businesses over the last few years running my business, I totally agree. I've had people who are earning millions and really great profit margins and they've got six hundred followers. And then I've had other people equally that have made 50, 60, 80 thousand followers and even over one hundred. And they've got two extra jobs because businesses are bringing anywhere near what they need to survive. So I completely agree. And just going back to that thing, like when you were talking about understanding what your inventory is like, just that knowledge of your metrics with social media, is it working for you? Is it doing what you want it to do and not getting tied into like, oh gosh, I was talking to a client the other day actually. He said, oh, someone some social media person told us we need to be posting like this many times a day, every day. And I was like, and what impact is that particular channel have on your sales?
And they're like, we have no idea. Yeah, that seems to be the mismatch all the time, what energy you're putting into that platform. And like, how is that returning to you? Because if you spend your whole day setting up things for Instagram of posting and commenting, but you're ignoring the actual customers that are in your store, it's not really a recipe that I think works.
And there's definitely times where we just will not post anything on the Instagram. And I'm like, oh gosh, I really need to post something. But it feels disingenuous. And unless I live today and yesterday, we've been training new staff in the store and the stores have been really busy and we've had lots of people. And that's where my focus is. Marketing is something that you need to be doing, but it can't just be that one thing. And also remembering that particularly for a gift store, like if you're buying a present for someone, that's a little piece of marketing that's going out there right at that moment. How are you packaging your product and how are you making that person feel? So when they leave that, that's a really like they're a little, you know, ambassador for your brand going off into the world to be like, oh, my gosh, I love stepping into that store and I love everything that's there.
And everyone who works there is so nice and friendly and genuinely cares about what I'm getting. And maybe I didn't find the right thing. Like another thing we do whenever someone is buying a present for a new parent, I tell them about Mama Goodness, which is another local business which delivers post-partum meal packs. Oh, it is genuinely like and that might mean that they might not buy something from my store, but I know that that's the right gift for that person at that time.
Totally. And it's having that abundance mindset. I feel like that if people come in, they're not the right fit. I'll be like, you know what, this this other business coach, she's awesome. Or is this person who specialises in your niche, you should work with them. So, yeah, I completely agree. And that comes back. So what is one thing you would do differently if you were starting out now, do you think? Is there anything you would do differently?
I set up our company from day one as a company and get all of our bank accounts like we had a bank account obviously when we started. But Josh and I started the business as a partnership rather than starting up the business as its own entity and paying ourselves a salary, paying me a salary has just been life changing. And it also works for a whole range of reasons, which if you're a small business owner, you should talk to your accountant and your bookkeeper about setting up those structures and having a really good bookkeeper and an accountant from day one that understands who you are, what your goals are, and how they can work with you having that team around you so, so important.
Oh, yeah, I completely agree. I'm often saying to people whenever they talk about money, I'm like, do you have a good accountant? Because that is like, you know, you don't know what you don't know. And these people are specialised thing with bookkeepers. They specialise to be looking at all the different ways that they can save money in the long run
And help you really build your business and grow the asset that you are putting all of your heart and soul into, because they'll look at it from a very, very purely numbers based perspective and say, what are the margins?
How much energy are you putting into this? Because that thing that you think that you're making eighty dollars on, if we add all of these other things into it, including your time and you're only making twenty dollars on it, what does that actually mean for your business? And how can we do this better?
Totally. I love that. And so I guess as we come to the end of our chat room to thank you for doing this again, what are you most proud of from your journey - owning and running Think Thornbury together with Josh,
I'm so proud that we're still here. I really am just so proud that we're still here, because particularly in the beginning, like, I don't think that people really thought that I could do it. And I was laughing with another business owner the other day about this and being like people thought we were crazy opening up this gift store that also hosted workshops. And we laughed. And he was like, yeah, I definitely thought you were crazy. And it's fun. We have like a very good relationship and. Oh, how we laughed. Yeah. I think that people thought that an artist and a musician could do this. And in many ways, Josh and I didn't have the experience that we needed to do what we were doing. But in a lot of ways, what we lacked for an experience we made up for in just like sheer enthusiasm and hard work.
And it has been hard work. It has been such hard, hard work. I've got, you know, when we were building the store, there's photos of me, you know, sanding joinery at three a.m. in the morning, building the store and finding the stockists. In the beginning, when we had no runs on the board and people didn't know who we were and getting them to trust us with their products, that was huge to do. So just being able to build the store from from absolutely nothing to something that is really a thriving business that can give back to our community and can support local artists and makers. It's something that I'm really excited to see grow and keep doing because, yeah, I, I really just want to be a positive force for good in my community and this is the way that I can do it.
Oh I love that so much. And so, and thank you for everything that you do. And as someone who's poultry but also as someone who is being stopped in your business, that sounds a bit wrong.
You he's just such a fantastic book. And you know, Mike from Kenny level, which is the ice cream store next door to me, came in the other day and was just having a chat.
And I was like, have you seen this? […] Because, like, she has a podcast too. And it's also a fine line of people who have friends coming into the store. I'm like, hey, have you seen this? I'm not it's not a sales pitch. Like, you should check out the podcast and then come back if you are interested in the book. And he was just like, yeah, brilliant. So I think there is that trust in my community now that people know that if I'm stalking something and I say that it's really good or I really love it and I'm like, just give it a go, see what you can get out of this. It's genuine.
Thank you. Thank you again. And so what is next for you and where can people connect with you? Of course, we'll link to all of this in the show notes your website, which is, I Think Thornbury.com and then the Instagram app. @ThinkThornbury and then you specifically, is it better for them to go at @maggiemayyy_
Oh, yes. No, I mean, I'd love to see you following me on Instagram or saying hi there, particularly if you're not in Melbourne. But the best way is always to come into the store and say hi and introduce yourself. Let me help you pick out a present because that's what it's all about. And our website, it's great to it's a real menu for what we have in the store. Not everything is on the website. It's still very much a work in progress because we're just adding new things all the time.
Yes, I love that. And yeah, definitely check it out, especially if you're outside of Melbourne. And also check out Josh's music, Josh Kelly music and we'll link to that in the show notes.
A humble, humble brag for my husband before he was diagnosed with cancer, wrote this amazing suite of music that was in the Melbourne Jazz Festival. And he was the young elder of jazz that year for PBS. He made this amazing piece of music, which everyone should check out. It's called displacement. He also when I was thirty eight weeks pregnant, we recorded his first record, which is called The Young Guns under his own group, which is Jake Group. And they're working on a new 30/70 record at the moment as well. So he's alongside being just the most amazingly supportive business partner, this incredible artist, that it's just breathtaking, the amount of things that he's able to do and do the business and be this fantastic father that is just so invested in everything to do with Remi. He's yeah, he's really an amazing person. And I'm very lucky that he's my best friend and also a business partner.
So I love that so much. I think like that just genuineness of the two of you. And Remy comes across so much in all of your website on social media and I think obviously in the store as well. Thank you so much for coming on to the podcast and sharing so much of your journey.
All right. Thank you so much for having me. It's really. It's really wonderful, this podcast's been a huge source of support and inspiration and encouragement for me, so I hope that that's something that other people can get from me today, too.
Oh, I'm sure they will. Thank you so much. I'll see you soon. Bye bye.
Oh, goodness me, what a massive life changing journey that Maggie and Josh and Remi have been on in these last two years, my goodness me. So many times during Covid, I would chat with Maggie and I just think, my goodness, how are you managing at all? And I'm in awe of her attitude. And yeah, just everything that she's been able to build, especially with the community around, Think Thornbury just so enamoured with that stool. And to Maggie and Josh, what Maggie and Josh have so generously given to that community since they started their business. So if you found that useful, I would love it if you would send me a DM or send Maggie A and just let us know what you most took away from that. For me, two things really stood out. One being absolutely genuine when it comes to community and building that community by genuine relationships, you know, really asking people how they are and waiting for the answer and really being invested in other people's happiness and also invested in the use of your product or your service, like what's it going to add to that person's life and not just coming at it from sell, sell, sell, but really I'm providing something that's really, really useful and beneficial and is going to improve that person who's buying the product or service their life in some way. And I definitely Think Thornbury does that really, really well. The other thing that I loved that Maggie talked about was that it's so obvious that her and Josh are very, very clear on the brand values and the foundations of which they want to build their business. And I love that she talked about when she's meeting with makers or people that want to be stocked in her shop, she is then asking them, you know, why have you done this? Why is it like that? Why do you get the maid here? Tell me about your business. Tell me about the process. Tell me about how you came up with that design and that story and the wife or the label or product that she's going to stop is just as important to her as you know. I'm sure the price point and how many other kind of competitive shops have that in the area. But I think it's really, really important for everyone in business, not just makers, but for people to be super clear on why are you running a business outside of making money? Why are you running it? You know, what is going to keep you engaged in the tougher times? And, you know, Maggie has certainly had many of those tougher times. And I think she definitely kept coming back to the core of why do we have this business? And that helped her come through so many of the challenges that she's been faced with, the whole family has been faced with. So yet another massive shout out to Maggie for coming on and sharing her story so openly and so eloquently. I really, really appreciate it. So if you would like to connect with Maggie and Josh, you can do that via Instagram there at Think Thornbury. And Maggie is at Maggie May with three wise and a school. As mentioned, Josh also runs the business and he is a musician as well. And you can find him on Instagram at Josh Kelly music definitely jump online and check out Cinq Thornbury online. Or if you are in Thornbury, which is in Melbourne, go and visit them. But you can find out their address and see all the amazing things that they sell and do a little shopping at Finked Thornbury dot com. And we will of course, link to all of that in the show notes.
The full transcript of this episode will also be available in the show notes. And you can find all of that over at mydailybusinesscoach.com/podcast/78 as this is episode 78. If you found this useful or any of the previous episodes useful, I would absolutely love it if you hit subscribe so you don't miss out on any future episodes. And if you might just have 10 seconds to leave us a quick review, it just helps us really, really get found by other small business owners across the globe so they can learn as well. Thanks again for listening. See you next time.
Thanks for listening to My Daily Business Coach podcast. If you want to get in touch, you can do that at mydailybusinesscoach.com or hit me up on Instagram at @mydailybusinesscoach.
