Episode 84: On The Importance of Building a Business You Love, Setting Boundaries, Connecting Emotionally and Learning from Experience: An Interview with Beatrix Bakes' Natalie Paull
You’re in for a delicious treat in this small business interview episode! Fiona talks to Natalie Paull about the lessons she learned from owning two previous businesses and applying them to her current business, the incredible North Melbourne cake shop - Beatrix Bakes. Listen now as they talk about deciding which flavours work for the business, learning the difference between passion and hobby, and why standing your ground and setting boundaries is crucial to running a successful and fulfilling business.
Topics discussed in this episode:
Introduction
Catching up
On celebrating achievements
About Beatrix Bakes
On having a business before Beatrix Bakes
Trusting her instincts
On baking at a young age
How to know if it's passion or a hobby
On writing the book
On creating an impact
Baking cakes for family or friends during special occasions
On coming up with flavours
On social media
On having mentors, courses and books that helped the business
Tech recommendations
What is she most proud of in her business?
On doing things differently
Getting in touch with Beatrix Bakes
Conclusion
Connect with Natalie Paull and Beatrix Bakes
Episode transcript:
Everything that's been said has actually been something for the good night, honestly, honestly, like feel that like there's just nothing like we've hired the wrong person the next time higher, not the wrong person.
And if I have made an error with how we've dealt with customers, then we've plan to put that into practise that we don't do that with customers. Will we change our language or script with customers? So I really wouldn't change a thing.
Hello and welcome to Episode 84 of My Daily Business Coach podcast. Today, you are in for a treat in more ways than one, but you are definitely in for so many business tips and tools and insights today. It is a small business interview type episode here on the podcast. And my guest is just so giving and generous with her business journey. What's worked, what didn't work, the tactics that she uses to keep herself enthusiastic about what she does and to build her team and keep them feeling great about things, but also about small things that she's developed that actually go a long, long way to building brand loyalty and customer retention. So who is my incredible guest? Well, it's Natalie Paull, the founder behind the much loved cake shop in North Melbourne. Beatrix Bakes and also the person behind the incredible book, Beatrix Bakes, which came out round about a year ago now. And it just has done so well, not just here in Australia, but also internationally, which is massive. Now, as Natalie discusses in the podcast, she always knew that this was what she was going to do. She just absolutely loved baking. She loved creating things for people. And she spent her life really cultivating her craft. She studied and she worked under people like Maggie Beer and Stephanie Alexander. And Beatrix Bakes is actually her third business. And in this podcast, we talk about what did she want to create and what sort of lessons that she learnt from owning two previous businesses that she took into Beatrix Bakes.
What I love most about Natalie is how down to earth and genuine she is. I mean, she has, you know, 75,000 followers on Instagram. Her book has just been printed multiple times. I remember trying to order it early on and they'd already gone into reprint, I don't know, before maybe it was even in stores. People just loved it that much. But behind all of this, you know, beautiful looking cakes and beautiful images in Instagram, an amazing cookbook is a real person who has struggled through the same self-doubt as so many other small business owners and has created different ways to deal with not understanding a particular element of business. And I love how much ownership Natalie takes over all parts of her business and her understanding of, well, I might not feel like I'm good at it right now, but I know that if I take the time to invest in my education up levelling, I can become good at it and I can earn that part of my business. The other thing that is so obvious about Natalie's work, whether the cake shop or in her businesses before or even study or the book itself, is how much hard work she has put in. And I mean, I'm very anti hustle, hustle, hustle. But she's really real about you know, when I was writing my book, I didn't have all the time in the world to sit and write a book. So she would take moments that she could in the kitchen of the cake shop and sit wherever she could find a spot and write. And she talks about having to get up because people needed to reach to get something behind her. But she kept doing it and she kept grabbing the moments where she could to do the work that she wanted to in order to reach the goal of creating a cookbook. And obviously, it's done incredibly well for her. And lastly, one of the thing that just really, really stood out in this was the boundary setting that Natalie has had to do to fulfil her own goals of what she wants to create in her business.
And I think so often in business, we can listen to other people or we can hear people say, well, you're not going to survive as a business if you don't offer this business. And I think what's come across in Natalie's interview today is just how much she stood her ground and was like, “This is what I want to create. This is what I'm going to say no to. This is what I will do. This is what I won't do.” And I know and believe that there is an audience for that. So definitely enough for me. Get your notepads ready if you can do that, not driving. Make sure that you're ready for all of the tips and insights that Natalie shares. Here it is my interview with Natalie Paull, founder of Beatrix Bakes.
All right, I was super excited about today's interview, welcome Nat. How are you feeling right now?
Thanks for having me on. I am feeling really like we're coming out of this. Well, for me, in the business of coming out of this, I'm not sure whether it's like a chrysalis after covid and that some of the things that have changed and we've gotten better at during the last 12 months have actually turn us into like beautiful business butterflies. Or it's sometimes I feel like it might be a bit of a hangover because we are still holding on to a bit of that that sort of austerity and that organisational trauma, I think from last year of trying to pivot the business so many times throughout the year. So I'm not sure where it's quite yet, but I do think it's a little bit of both of those things. Yeah.
And I feel I get the sense from lots of my clients as well, particularly where they are similar to you, in that they are very customer facing where they sort of the same thing like, oh, OK, some exciting things developed last year that we could. Yes.
With, but we then take away this part of the business or we then have these costs involved or. Yeah. Or we're going to be exhausted because now we're working these extra hours yet. But then you've got that tug of war of like. But what if we go back into lockdown. We kind of need to keep that thing happening. Yeah, that's right. So we are recording this in 2021. And I believe that you've just hit 10 years this exciting. It's such a massive milestone.
Thank you so much.
I'm so proud of it. Really, honestly, it is quite surreal for me, the longest job I've ever had. And it does feel like the first day and today that not ten years was between those two times. It feels like it's only like a few years. And when I actually allow myself, I'm not a very good at celebrating or going back through the Rolodex of achievements, if you will, and thinking, well, that was really great that we did that. It just does feel like it was just like one foot in front of the other. And now we kind of hear and one of the celebrations that we did do was to do a little Instagram competition and asking people just to tell us their favourite stories. And it was almost like a sort of screenshot of the all and kept them all for posterity when I'm old and want to look back at my achievements. And I love what they said. I love what the business meant to them and how they have been woven into the tapestry of their lives, which was one of the most beautiful things that was said about the business, which certainly I didn't expect that would ever happen, that a business I created would mean that much to people and so beautiful that it has.Oh, I love that.
I know. I'm really excited to dive into that a bit further with you because I feel your business is impacted. A beautiful time of my life as well. Did you celebrate, though? Did you, like, go out for dinner?
I think we had some cheers at work and but I didn't go out for dinner on that weekend. I'm very much OK. That's great. What's the next thing on the agenda that we have to tackle do so? Yeah, I am a terrible celebrator, which I should be better at that, especially for my team. But I am trying and it's funny that you're a terrible celebrity when a lot of your business would come from other people. So yeah, it does.
But I did have more of a, I guess, an existential crisis around the ten year mark. There was a a little bit of a sense of like, is it right to keep going? Is it like is this what I want to do for the next ten years? And so it was kind of a little bit bittersweet. I guess I was just sort of like digging into some feelings about just, I think, feeling a little bit tired from last year as well, just being sort of tilting my thoughts to like, you know, do I don't want to do another ten years, but I definitely do. Oh, I feel like I had coffee with some friends who run businesses and they about a month. So maybe like in early February, mid-February, we were all saying the same thing, like all this just this flatness. Like I feel like it was just almost like, you know, when you're rushing through, say, before a wedding or before something big, you're like you've just got so much to do. And then you get to the end and then you kind of it's a bit flat, like there's a bit of a glitch.
It's totally like that. Yeah, that's funny. That was about the same time that I had that crisis of. Yeah. Going forward. Yeah. That's amazing.
Oh no. I really I had I literally remember sitting there in February being like, do I want to do this business? Because I was like this feels like I want to do this for another six years and how do I be then and all this stuff. But yeah.
Yeah, because it's really like the next phase of life, especially for me at my age, I'm thinking, am I going to be able to do it? But I am. I've got good strong knees and hips, so I think I can do it. Oh, great, good.
I feel the same as well. I came back to it with passion. So a lot of people listening. Have your book and know your delicious cake shop, a bakery, a cake shop, pastry shop, what do you call it. I think I call it a cake shop now. Especially that we take away only we. They would have called ourselves a cafe. Yeah, so I think cake shop is the best, most apt description for it.
OK, so a lot of people will now take shop, even if they're not in Melbourne where you're based and where I'm based as well. But can you talk us through what Beatrix Bakes is and kind of all the different elements? And also, I'd love to kind of understand how you came up with that name. Who is the middle name or something else?
Well, I was going to register my business name, so I was going with my form in hand and my credit card to pay. This was in 2010 and I was about to hand it over and I just thought, no, I don't I don't feel right about that name. So I left the line with the queue. Oh. And went home and had a little glass of wine and did some brainstorming and found its way to me. And I think it was because I knew I was going to hang those old fashioned beaters in the shop. And I thought that tricks with the Beetle was kind of funny.
But the one thing that sort of stood out to me was that this story that I love about Natasha Stott Despoja when she was a senator and she used to be greeted by Gough Whitlam, he used to call her. He used to say good morning, Senator X, and use the old fashioned version of the female suffix like an aviatrix. And I thought that was really nice. I'm a female beater, so I'm going to call myself like Beatrix. And it just stuck just like found its way. That little story and the little wordplay was just enough. And then I was like straight back in the next day after I'd finished my wife and just registering Beatrix Buycks, I had to have big spikes as the name. I also like it too, because that is such a great name. It's Potter that I grew up with, Kitto from the Kill Bill films and such a badass in those films. And it just really made a lot of sense to me. And I do like having a business with a name attached to it. There's like a feeling that there's something real behind it. Yes, like a real person and people. And so then it just stuck and it was just perfect.
Yeah. And I love that it's sort of old school, that vintage and kind of goes, Yeah. Making cakes from scratch and all of that stuff as well.
It does, yeah. But we don't pull too hard into it being really like kitschy and fifties and things like that. So yeah. It's a nice strong line. Yeah it definitely is.
So what does Beatrix Bakes do if you, if someone's listening to they say in the US or somewhere else and they don't follow you on Instagram, what of the kind of elements. So you do take away cakes.
So did take away cake. So we sell slices of cakes and individual bake so doughnuts and, and caramel slice and things like that, as well as slices of hulk, which is probably the majority of what we do. We sell around one hundred and fifty thousand slices of cake a year or units of cake a year. That was just last year. Which just to put it into perspective, this tiny shop in North Melbourne, that's when you draw back the curtain like that's how busy we are making so much cake slices of cake.
It really does blow my mind. And that's love. Yeah, that was last year.
Yep. We were shut that part of it. Not for much. We were like open during the lockdown's very limited in a limited way. Yeah. So it's a huge amount when I look at those numbers and in that perspective they all made from scratch from like real butter, real eggs, flour, sugar, nothing artificial except for the red food colouring in the red velvet. We also make cakes for celebrations.
I think we do around one hundred of those awake. We also make savoury things that we make sandwiches in the summer and pies and sausage rolls in the winter. We make the bread for those sandwiches now, which we just started this year, which was really one thing I'd always wanted to do is to actually complete the whole picture of making everything ourselves from scratch.
We do coffee in a limited way. We don't do single use takeaway cups anymore. We stopped that in 2019 and so just people bring their cake cups or they just drink
one down the sidewalk and that's what we do. Yeah. That's what Beatrix does every week.
Amazing. And do some of your cakes go to like do you do kind of weddings or corporate events and stuff as well. I guess that's the whole business is it.
Yeah, we do a little bit. We did dabble in doing larger cakes and we did think about wedding cake business. It's something that makes me really nervous. I've done it in the past. And that whole terror of having like a tiered cake in the back of a van travelling around it just does make me quite anxious. So people do come to us. And one of my favourite weddings I did for Matt and Sarah years ago was we did like a whole dessert table for them for their wedding. So they had like a blueberry. Women could shag and they had meringues and they had like this was almost like a tiny beach house at that wedding because they were such great customers and people like to do things like that. And then everyone gets a slice of something that they like.
Oh, I'm like salivating. Yes. Through Instagram and through covered. I kept saying to my husband, when we're in the five kilometre because we are definitely yes. With five kilometres from you, we can never go there. Where do we go? Come on. But I did a bit of research on you as well. And if I'm correct, Beatrix Bakes is not the first company that you started. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
That is very true. But you had it earlier, and I'd love you to kind of describe how they differ.
And then I guess what you wanted to do with Beatrix that perhaps you hadn't done earlier or you haven't been able to do earlier or even kind of which lessons that you took from the first experience into your business now and sitting it out. Yeah.
So I actually had two businesses before they trex. So the first one ended. It was Wholesale Kikes. It was my first time in business. It ended really acrimoniously with business partners that we had at the time, and I lost a lot of money and that made me realise that my business toolbox was kind of pretty empty. I didn't have any skills in really negotiating or managing what I was doing. I said yes to nearly everything that I was asked to do, which put me into a really tired place. And then that business ended.
And from the ashes of that business, I met Cassandra Gordon, who became my business partner, and we created Little Bertha, which is along the same lines, but without saying yes to everything. So we learnt. I learnt that and we managed to grow this like really beautiful little wholesale business of just making cakes and taking them around to cafes. And it was really great.
We did really well. And then we sold that as a going concern in 2010. I think it was because I was really burnt out, but it was really great. She did all the numbers for us in the business and she is also the smartest person in the room in nearly every room that she's in. And she taught me how to she just gave me some, like, fundamentals of business and life that I didn't have.
So it was really, really great. So when it came to Beatrix, so I had two years off where I just did admin at a university because I was super tall and super burnt out with the entire business. And I sort I hadn't found that nature that I was looking for.
So when I started building the plan for Beatrix, because I think it was inevitable that I would go back to it, inevitable that this was my I hate using the word destiny, but let's put that in there.
I really wanted to have that retail experience. And I really I'd always felt I was terrible with people. But doing the admin at a university, I realised I was actually had some skills with liaising with people. And I wanted to see people enjoying what we were making. I didn't really want to just like drive it around and have someone else look after my product. I wanted to look after my product. And one of the reasons why we don't do any wholesale here, we did a little bit with Market Line a few years ago, but I really just wanted to keep our product for us and for people to come and buy it from us. And so that was one of the things I learnt. I also learnt that you need to have a pretty strong sense of boundaries for what you're doing so you don't have to make everything for everyone.
And one of the greatest things I learnt is that you build a fence of no and then within that fence of no, you can say yes to anything you want. So as long as you're not jumping out of that fence. When we were a cafe, we never did breakfast stuff. We just did our sandwiches and we did our cakes.
And that's really hard for some people to understand. But it was the business model that made sense for us and was streamlined for the space.
And I didn't feel like I needed to do everything and make macaroons or make chrysanths, which I'm terrible at, or make éclairs, which I'm terrible at. I just wanted to do the things I really wanted to make. The other thing that has taught me and that I really wanted to do with Matrixx was to loan my numbers. So I really wanted to be the one doing the payroll and doing my best and reconciling all my accounts and making all the dollars and cents match to the absolute cent because I'd always been scared of it, or if I sit with it and I didn't want that to happen anymore. So I made those commitments that were the three big commitments for Beatrix.
Oh, I love that. This much gold. We could just finish the podcast now and to take away like. So I feel like often when I talk to people and the first thing we talk about is values and money, because I'm like, if you are off, if you're like if you're saying yes to things you don't really want to say yes to or if you're saying yes to things that don't align with who you are or whatever, and then if you're not making the money that you need to meet your individual needs, then it's just going to all go up. And the amount of times people have come and said, oh, you know, I'm spending crazy amounts of money on a logo or crazy amount of money on a beautiful website, and that's all good. But do we know the stuff at the bottom? Because that's going to be the foundation. So I think it's fantastic that you have that. And also the I love the idea of the no fence.
Yeah, yeah. I think a lot of times people are scared, like if they were in your situation and I think. Well, I mean in a city I mean, I mean North Melbourne, lots of people are expecting with their coffee to be able to get eggs and bacon. Yeah. How did you kind of stay strong to that? How did you did you disbelieve. No, I know that enough people are going to want what I have.
You know, we don't have to make a mistake, especially avocado. Yeah. I think because it felt like the last roll of the dice for me. So I thought if I couldn't, I mean, I was starving. Like, I want people to enjoy what we make, but I don't know if I knew or if I can sit here now and say, I think I knew, but I just knew if it wasn't on these terms that I had this business model that I knew was healthy for me as well, that it wasn't going to be worth it. It wasn't going to be worth it. Like the other like the first business wasn't worth it. So I think just something innate inside me was just telling me to hold fast to it and just stick with it. I love that.
I love that. Just that lesson. I just learnt how to say no and set your boundary and hold on and just hold on. Yes, I love that. So you have been in this kind of world for a long time, and I know that you've worked with incredible people like Maggie Beer and these and other people, but it's not baking at seven years old, is that right?
I was hit by the thunderbolt of baking at seven years old. So I was always baking at home and I started cooking professionally at 18. But in that time, between seven and 18, I cooked a lot. I baked a lot at home. It was really all I ever wanted to do, apart from a small moment where I thought I might have been through technologist, I think getting hold of like those early like gourmet travellers and entertaining and saying what shifted and that sort of like opening up the doors to what happened in kitchens and things that just really appealed to me. And so it just it was just the goal. It was always I knew I'd always cook. I'd probably always cook sweet stuff because I liked it so much. And when I wasn't doing it, I was baking just so much. So a couple of times when I've just done more savoury cooking. So cooking in restaurants and cooking like an entree section or main course section, when I went home, I'd be making like tiered cheesecake, like cakes and tray strudels or something like that, and just really going wild.
I think I'm just a sweet seeking missile in your house, although I was like the champion bike actually was. I just I love biking because my mum was just such a great kid.
Did your parents bike? Who was inspiring you at seven?
I just got a book from the library and it was How to make a Better Cake. And it just I was so excited by it and I was trying to get everyone around me to be excited about it. But no one really was the age of seven. They weren't really getting on board. Dad made a great Christmas cake every year and it was a really big thing when he made it. It was like many days of preparation, many steps of the baking. It was like this beautiful ritual that happened every year. So that probably coloured my passion or just like my passion. Mum was a reluctant cook and she was really good at burning chops. So it wasn't definitely not from her. And so it just kind of was always there. It was just I knew that that was what I wanted to do. And I didn't really look at doing anything else in my life. Yeah. So it was like, I don't know if there is an answer to this, but I guess when you employ people or have people contact you, I'm sure a lot of people contact you to work with. You have if people realise this is actually something I could do versus I just like I, I love banking. If I could bike, if I could just like 24/7 I would. However I'm trying to be healthier. Yeah. I'd have a really sweet tooth. So what I bake is usually just full of butter and cream cheese.
Yes. But I would love to do it but I don't know if I've got this. I wouldn't have the stamina to do it full time. Lucky so and I probably wouldn't be anywhere near as good. But how do. People understand this is just a passion or a hobby. This is like how do you look at people and assess they're really into it? They could do this because a lot of hard work involves the pretty tight and this is just the variable.
Yeah, it's a lot of hard work. I think. You don't know you can do it until you do it, which it was probably only until I started a business that I thought I could do it on my own as a it's
because maybe it's before that. Maybe it's when you start cooking and you are on your feet all day and you understand that it takes a bit of great to work physically all day for your entire shift and that it's a lot of cleaning as well that you want have like every ball. You put something to listen in to. That ball has to be cleaned. People don't think about and put away. Yes.
And so you have to want to do it. You have to want to do it. And you have to want to do it even when it's hard. Yeah.
Well, so another way that people would have known about you, and I've mentioned it before, is your amazing book, which is called Beatrix Bakes. And that came out last year, which is another huge thing, because I think it until I read it, I remember contacting I think it was you guys and it was like it's in Reframe. It'll and I was like, whoa, it just came in its origin. And so that's an incredible book. And I have a copy. I've tried the caramel slice with the salt.
Yes. It's amazing. And again, I would love to cook that every night. But what you do need some broccoli every time you get some other stuff from a business perspective, did you do the book because you were coming up to 10 years or why did you decide to do the book now? And also, I'd love to know what impact that book has had on the business. Has it has it kind of been the same? Has it had much more awareness? And then also, did you launch or do anything because you would have done that? I think it was like March 2020. So it was just before just on the cusp. So I know there's a lot of questions in it, but I guess yet why did you decide to do it and what impact has it had?
Well, I'd always be really scared because I know other people that have done cookbooks and they've all said how hard how much hard work is to write a book. And I had a business that was really hard work to run. So I really feel like there was ever a moment that I would could see myself having time outside of that. And then in 2016, I had a position vacant and this woman, Charlotte Vermeersch, joined the team. I kept getting her confused with someone else. I didn't really want to get in for a while. I thought she was like a I just had a confused. But then she just sort of bulldozed her way in and I realised I'd been mistaken. And she started doing coffee and doing and a house. And then she was really instrumental in being this, again, a bulldozer of positivity around me and just saying so when Heidi Grant rang and they said, well, would you like to do a book? I was like, should I do it? She's like, Yes, you should do it. You should just do it and I'll help you and we'll just get it done. And she was just incredible.
And I think that's why it was just time to do it. I also feel like that are in there. We're at the most perfect likeness, if you will. I think before that they had been they hadn't quite been as good, like cooking and baking is like constantly tinkering a little bit, just adding a little bit more of this or less of that or adjusting temperatures. And I think it was just the time to pick the ripe fruit of the recipes and put them into something and capture that moment and the achievements of what the little shop had done. So Charlotte was just there every step of the way, just testing recipes, rating stuff, giving feedback and just really just pushing me along to to do the project. And I'm really glad I did. And it was really born out of being a gift to the people like our community of Beatrix's that had been asking for so long for a cookbook. And so I kind of just did it for them and wanted to give them something to have in their home so that they could always have a bit of Beatrix with them. And I think that I was just ready to do the work and I was ready to take on. I mean, also Charlotte was incredible in what she told us in terms of work and her energy. And so I felt like she could take care of things for me while I. I used to sit on this little IKEA bench on wheels in the prep room, Anthony Prepon, and just sit there and take away the computer when I just had, like a bit of a spark of inspiration to write something. So I just like jumped into the room and I'd have to like shuffle every five minutes so someone could get something out of the fridge or put something away. And she was just there protecting
me and letting me write it. And it was very great.
Oh, it's so lovely. And it's brought new customers, like obviously you created it for the people that it kind of helped you build your business. I mean, it's hard to know with covid and travel restrictions and stuff, but yeah, it is hard to know because I only like a really handful of engagements before we couldn't do anything more with the launch. So I don't know if I popped up on anyone's visibility then. So I don't know. I just think it's enriched. For people that love this kind of enrich their experience, but it has travelled over to the US and the UK and I have really, really lovely relationships now on Instagram and DM's with bikers in L.A., Nicole Ruka. She's incredible and I've always admired her work and we've just connected through the book as well, which I don't think would have happened. And great Daisy. But I think it's Breadboard Bakery in Massachusetts and just having lots of little relationships. But I don't yeah. I don't know if I have a metric on whether anything really, really amplified our customer base or anything like that. Yeah.
And it's hot. It's and we've had a grant and obviously they're the booksellers. So like people will say to me, oh can I, I'm doing a workshop for people with branding. Can I buy 20 copies? And I'm like, I don't sell them. Sorry. Yes, I did, but I don't. And obviously was how the grant would let us sell them if we wanted to. But it's it's just. Yeah. Choosing what what you're trying to do.
And I feel like I feel like some people have it's the first way that the kind of first touch point that they've had of me. But then for other people it's like, oh my gosh. Now you have a book.
Yes. Yeah. I know some people have bought it because it gives them all the storage information they need for when they buy from us, but they don't buy from it at all. It's like a guide to have and still keep you such a good gift book as well. I mean, cookbooks in general are good, but I feel like this is particularly good because sometimes with silak cookbooks where they've got dinners and fancy salads and stuff like everything, like I always just flip to the dessert pop. Yeah, I have like a cookbook that's just desserts and some savoury things as well. But yeah, I love it. So I reached out to you and did. And the reason I'm mentioning this as well is because I think sometimes people don't do this and they should because it just builds. But I reached out to you on Instagram and randomly told you, you know, my dad had a funeral and your cakes at a funeral. We had a firecracker of the lovely Cassie Kaida.
Amazing. And I remember just like sending it out and then thinking, oh, it's not like a real downer. Like, is she going to I don't really need to hear about funerals, but the response was just so warm and gracious. And you were talking about being so appreciative of, like milestones that your business gets to be involved in in a way. And it really was like a heartfelt thing because I think I mean, not to put it down, but at funerals, people, it's a very awkward situation for people to come up to the children of somebody and you don't know them and they're trying to talk to you about.
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I remember just so many of dad's old friends from bowls and stuff like this cake is delicious. And it was a it was a starting point to then open up conversations for days and stuff. But I'd love you to talk about, like you touched on it before, how your business does impacts people. Because I think sometimes with clients, when I talk about it, while we talk about how are people's lives improved with your product or your services, they can think, well, I only sell doughnuts or I sell shoes or you know, it's not like I'm selling mental health products or something. So I'd love you to talk about your experience with with knowing that your product has an impact on people's lives.
I think that for me, from where I am and I haven't been on business courses or anything like that, but I know that every time you sell something or you buy something, you're let's go back to selling. Every time you sell something, you're selling more than your product to
have something meaningful in the world. You're also selling a feeling alongside that so that someone picks up to cheer up a friend or to give to someone in lockdown has a value to it. It has this like deep. It's really hard because it's like really the emotional stuff of what we do. And it is real. Like I've seen people, angry people eat cake and their mood change and maybe that's just the sugar. But I tend not to believe that that's true. I think it's more than that. Yeah. I've seen people during lockdown when they like sad and angry and lonely.
Cake is something good that brightens up their day. They sleep spot. And I think from the response from that Instagram competition where people were talking about their favourite memories. And again, I don't want to apologise for bringing sadness into the equation of the conversation, but it's really important that we talk about it because the most profound responses from people were people that it had lost. So when you local hospitals here in North Melbourne said people were getting like some pretty serious treatments that, like, paid EMAC for cancer or Royal Children's Hospital for the kids, so they'd circle around and say, like, treat after the treatment and gave me such chills that that would be that that just
balances out. What it just does a small thing, so whether you're making a really beautiful handbag or a piece of furniture, if you do it with feeling, if you like. Our goal is to make people just feel good when they part with money, in essence, so that they are happy that they've done that. And they also like to like in places like random extraordinary moments. I like to call them a little bit. And so if you can say someone's having a bad day, just like putting a little something extra in their box or celebrating something, just doing like little moments like that to try and just connect with your community, the people, the customers. That means so much to the business. So I really feel like, you know, I wouldn't want to have a business where I'm just I just feel like I'm just selling a cake for to put money in the bank or to take some sort of target goal that it has to be a piece of cake. And we fail on it sometimes. But sometimes sometimes when I'm on the floor and I feel a bit stressed,
I do lose sight of that goal. But for the principle, for the business is definitely that is to. Yes.
To sell something that makes someone feel good. Yeah. And I love what did you call them. Moments of random, extraordinary moments. Grand of extraordinary love that move. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like it can be anything. Like I often talk to people, especially my marketing workshops and people coming with this idea that marketing is just like a sales page or a tag or something. And I'll be like, no, it's the whole experience that's on the customers. Yeah. Even where we get our car serviced, whenever you go get a car service, it's not a fun thing. You know that you're going to be upset and you're always worried that they're going to say that something's wrong. That's not really funny. And we have the most incredible woman who does the reception. And I actually said to you, you have incredible customer service. Like, she's just so friendly. Every time you talk to her, she's just like, nothing's a problem. Can get it done for you. Like, amazing. So it doesn't need to be your, like in cakes or anything where there is a clear emotional connection. It could be anywhere.
Yeah, I had a woman serving Woolworth's the other day and she was so fun and so funny and she liked it. She was the last person I was going to say the day before I went home and she just gave me such a high just being such a just a great all around human that it was. Yeah. It was just so great. You're awesome.
So then I write Wallace a letter saying, you know, you should promote her because it's really good.
I often like if I about like what's your name and they'll say Yeah or something. And I'm like, I'm going to call time out and tell them how great Lauren is.
Get Kate lives in joyful places but it also losing livestock and more complex places. And I think you're right. I think that at funerals some of the cake I remember most profoundly from my childhood, from eating, that was a funeral. And it absolutely has that connexion of drawing people together that they can talk about something and yet and have a shared, beautiful, sweet experience.
Yeah, I absolutely love that. So thank you again. I'm part of it was also just talking about how good your takes look, because your cakes do look amazing and they taste amazing. Are you the person who always just like nails every birthday cake and then just like to your friends and family, does anyone else in your circle make cakes or is it always expected that that will bring the cake to any kind of barbecue or anything like that?
Sometimes, yes. Sometimes I am against my boundary and I say, well, I can't bring a cake or I don't really feel like making the cake. I assume if, you know, if someone's an accountant, they don't feel like doing someone's taxes at the end of a barbecue, do you? That analogy. So but I do like to out a stellar cake for certain functions and just try and dazzle people. But I think all my friends might be a little bit tired of my cakes and looking for something new deliver. You're going to judge them? I'd like it. I like I brought the cake that don't look too closely or they say it, but I never do. So the only the judges to be because I can't stand it. And yeah, I love carrot cake. I think it's a great vegetable carrot competing with the cakes, but I just, I'm not, I'm not down with that yet but I never judge a cake and even like packet cake they speak to the I have when I was a kid as well. So they've got that little bit an astrologer in them. So I really do love all cakes and I can be the first place I can tell you that I am quite partial to a caramel mud cake from any large supermarket bakery section first. Yeah, I still like my husband. Go and get it so that I am not side picking one up from the local supermarket where the customers shop. But I do like. Oh, my God, they had it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, actually, I was listening to somebody the other day who's really, really senior in the design space and then she was saying to me, oh, yeah, these are just from IKEA. He's like, oh, yeah, yeah. I was like, oh, but she's like, you know, so talking about like zucchini that, you know, that's just not any cake and carrot. How do you come up with the flavours for your cakes? Because they are incredible and often even just stuff that I've seen on Instagram, I'm like, oh, a doughnut out of that? Or do you spend a lot of time experimenting? Did you in your schooling and the state like working with other people? Did you just understand, oh, these two flavours you would never think to put together really work? Well, how do you kind of come up with them?
I think it's just being interested in cooking in general. So whether that was when I was cooking and like doing hospitality and working in restaurants, I used to see a lot of ingredients, interesting ingredients. So there is like a Middle Eastern tilt because I spent a few years working in a Middle Eastern restaurant to some of the things that we do. I eat out. I get inspired by eating out. I get inspired by reading cookbooks.
I also get very inspired by running out of ingredients at the last minute and having to think of something to put in there. And so we might be doing, I think, the carrot cake from the best examples of it, because we in the early days, what was making that with walnuts, which is a classic carrot cake nut combo, and then one day the baker that was making them had run out of walnuts. And I said, let's try hazelnuts.
And I think that it's a much better combination of carrots and hazelnuts and really great together. So it's little things like that. I just like vegetable inspiration. She's come from anywhere, you know, just watching
TV shows and saying something put together. And sometimes I can just be like looking at two ingredients in the fridge next to each other and go, oh, I wonder what they'd be like together and just have a go at it. It's almost like we had little moments. I guess. I love that my mom was very much random things to give out, like. Yeah, and she never she passed. My sister and I were like, oh, she never gave recipes. And I tried to get her to write her recipes down, but she would always just be like, I don't know, I just put it until I feel like enough. It was very intuitive that sometimes salads she would come up with. I'd be like, Mom, this is like cashews and oranges and bits of olive. So what's going on here? Well, it tasted, but I think that whatever's in the fridge is going to do.
Yeah, yeah. And so one thing that obviously is very clear about your business and lots of businesses like that is just how beautiful things look. And I know that you started your business before social media took us because Facebook was I think it was two thousand seven, but Instagram was two thousand twelve. And even then people weren't using it till 2015 and stuff. But how has social media played a role in your business? Because obviously people want food that looks good and looks good on Instagram and other visual platforms. How's it played a role in your business? Are you very clear on what you're putting on Instagram? Do you have like a strategy behind it? Do you just sort of do the same sort of things and you know that they work and and has it? Do you think social media has played a huge role in your business or not?
As much as people might expect, I think it has. And I think the reasons which people really don't use Instagram for. So probably the biggest priority that we have, Instagram. And it is essential that that incredible employer that I didn't want to hire, although she does Instagram for me now, is incredibly good at it. And I've only just handed that over in the last eight months that she's doing it.
And our principal for it all is to be informative. So what we like to say is we made this today, but we never use hyperbole. So we never say this is the greatest carrot cake you'll ever eat. Come on down for a slice, because I think that with Instagram, there's so much aspirational somebody that really don't need me to do that as well. Sometimes I really do like a seasonal special, like the Black Forest Cake. We just set a boundary with it. So we just say only have this for a couple of weeks. All the fresh salad cherries are in. So pop one down if you want to grab a slice. We just want to take a nice peek of some nice food that hasn't been styled. It's just pretty much a slice of cake that we pull out of the cake in the morning and we don't take it too seriously and we don't try and engage that sort of sense of flomo because you won't miss out. If you miss out on a piece of red velvet, I promise you your life will be so beautiful that day as it ends. It is. That is really what drives us just to be informative about what we have, what hours are.
And this really is the best question. But it really but Instagram and social media has changed how we approach food. And I think that people now have the.
The really heightened because of it, and that can be really hard for businesses to respond to when the slice of the cake that they bought and have travelled an hour with on the train doesn't look like what was on our Instagram, which is obviously normal, that there'd be some difference. I remember some of the first pictures I took. Someone commented, can you please stop using yellow filters on your pictures? Because I can't see what the food looks like, the likes of, which is really funny. So, you know, we have gotten better at it and we used to do a little bit of hash tagging between like 2015 and 2016. But we really didn't follow his or anything like that. We just let it grow organically and and let it lift and just being communicative. I mean we even use Instagram to tell people that they've left behind like a sandwich. So sometimes we'll just put a call that like, Hey Brittany, you've got me a sandwich, can you please come back?
And that's really what it's saying. Just this the real this is what we do.
Oh, I love that. And I love just the kind of gentleness of it as well. Not being like, yes, you've got to it's the best thing of you.
Yeah. Because you're not missing out and you're not missing any good sitting home with, like, a beautiful piece of banana bread that you've made. That's great too, where all the caramel cake that there are you could count on. But lucky you. That's right. I'm jealous.
So do you have obviously social media has played a pop, but do you have you've talked about a couple of people, Charlotte and Cassandra, so this other people as well. But have you had any kind of business mentors or courses or books or even tech tools or different platforms that have really helped you build your business?
Yeah, Cassandra is my number one mentor and she sort of unpicks the minutia of any problem with me very patiently. Still to this day, I was very lucky enough.
A few years ago, Marianne, she took an interest in the shop and me and we spent some time doing some little coaching sessions and she really got me to run my numbers. So now I know that if I have a question about whether I should buy a new piece of equipment or plan something for the business, that I just need to sit down and do a spreadsheet straight away. And that should give me all the answers that I need.
And I hadn't really had that sort of pointed out so well before that that was really a tool I needed to have in my toolbox. And then we have a really great customer, Ross, who is a venture capitalist, I think. But he's this like, really incredible businessman. And he took an interest in the shop and he does this like really lovely coaching. If I walk into his car with these blocks of cakes or something, he'll I'll ask him a question. I know.
Give me like a really like, you know, a little bit of a story or something or like an aphorism that I can latch onto. And and for all of them, I think the greatest thing in finding these mentors is that they are very complimentary of the things that I do. But I know it comes from a very real place. But they also tell me the stuff I need to hear. And that's a very balanced I have someone just barking at me saying, you should have done this, you should have done that. They very like you've done that well, but go and do this and really drill down into those numbers to see what that means. And I think that's been really nice. But they've sort of been in and out. They're not people that I see all the time. And that's kind of nice. And then for the rest of it, it's just like a Balbert approach where I just sort of pick information into, like your podcast or listen to someone on there that is in a similar business that I think I need in the dark moments. I need to have a bit of clarity, a lot. I love Bernie Brown the day to day. Really great podcast, really inspirational. And I subscribe to Seth Godin. His emails. I get two or three emails with him a day.
How good is he?
So good. And my favourite of his is the turning that thing on its head about how you have to find something that you're passionate about and then you work like that's a condition. He talks about this thing about, like getting a foot in the door with something and then you work hard in it with focus. And once you make progress, you start to become passionate about it, that you start with you always start with the work first and then you find the passion inside it. And I really love that.
And just like these blog emails every day, even if they're totally random, I'm like, oh, about it that way. Yeah, I really just love finding that information in places around the world to podcast. So just like books and just putting them together in a way that makes. For me and my business, amazing how you pretty kind of luck.
Do you have a big sort of software system at the back or how do you kind of work with your platforms at all? Because you have got you running a busy business all day long?
A computer much? Not a lot. We're in funds a lot. So and especially during covid, during 2020, we went all fine. So instead of getting an online ordering app, we did it all in-house. All Oh like yes I was super low tech so we got three extra phones, mobile phones and people could say all this to us and one of the staff told us how to do so. And I was one, she was like we can do keyboard shortcut. So we had all these keyboard shortcuts set up so people would order. Great. Got your order. This is what time you have to pick it up by which we just do by pressing like to let us on the keyboard.
But that's about all we have in terms of technology. We're pretty low tech and probably the most high tech thing we have is a bread prove that can prove bread for like three days and have it ready for the baking. That is probably the most high tech thing. But other than that, it's just the phones and the whole suite of Apple for us. I love zero. I love to the day I first got it.
And I find it really fun using zero and then just having those things like like speed and deputy to integrate straight into it. Thanks. I went they weren't available to me when I first started having them come into the picture have been really, really helpful.
Amazing. Yeah. So much fun. I love making sure all those accounts we like reconciled to the to the viewer. Are you still so proud of myself? Then that comes up and says, congratulations, I've done it.
Oh you'd like open it. And sometimes you're like, oh my God, there's only four pages. It's not like 20 you're going through or even with it. All right. I still like, look like yes, I saw it. It already knows what that thing is that is made looking like. What did I spend 27 dollars on Detroit.
Yeah. And I love it when my accountant said you set up. We keep one of the most organized systems and I'm like, yeah, gold star for me.
And I love that you said it's not how you thought you were the greatest at numbers or you didn't know numbers or so. That's amazing. But also I should have earlier when you pointed those things out or even when you'd said, oh, I didn't think I was going to be the greatest around people, and then you did the admin job. I do feel like often I hear it all the time from business and it's all I'm really I'm not creative. I'm not this I'm not that yet. I'm packing. They're like, oh yeah, I have actually done that or I've done that really well. Or, you know, I've kept my staff for the last five years because I've got really great culture, like, yeah, yeah. Pat ourselves on the back enough for the stuff we do do.
Exactly.
Yeah. And a funny little story is that in the second year, I think I think I think it was for about six dollars, but I sent a correction to the ATO because I,
I'd underpaid on my best and I sent them a correction of six dollars because I wanted to make sure that everything was totally OK. Well, reconcile. Yep. And I was very proud of that moment.
Oh no. That's it's like taking care of I feel like. So I'm taking care of.
Yeah. Yeah it really is.
So what do you think you are most proud of from the whole journey that you've had over the last ten years and obviously before that with the other two businesses?
I think it's just doing it year after year when it's been hard, like finding anchors and lights or changing my way out of situations that haven't been great.
So I'm really proud of that, that tenacity. Just keep going. I'm proud that we stopped using takeaway cups. We still have a way to go with the boxes, but we still managed to say that not having so much disposable is good food. Makes you feel proud of the business that we all covered. Survival was a pretty huge thing. I was very proud of and the way that the team just really adapted every day and how almost energised we were by how we make it good for our customers and stay in business and make it safe. That's incredible. I'm so proud of the work culture we have at the tricks that is kind and it's empowering and it is a really nice place to work. And I didn't I just knew I wanted it to be that way. But I think that sometimes we need to set the goal. You just start moving towards that goal and it happens. And I think the thing I'm most proud of is that the business that Beatrix's is engaged, every part of me, and it's still unknown to me, it's got me up and loads of joy.
And I just feel so pleased that I opened those doors 10 years ago. So I'm glad I took the chance.
Oh, I love that answer. That's just perfect, because I do feel like like part of the reason I started my business was to help people start a business because life is like mostly work and sleep and a little bit of playtime. Yeah. Yeah. So you want to enjoy what you're actually doing. Maybe not 24/7, but for the bulk of it you want to win it and love it. So I absolutely love that answer. Another question I wanted to ask you before we wrap up is, is there anything you would have done differently? So if someone's listening to this and potentially opening a similar shop or a shop that sells things directly to customers, maybe not food, but is there anything else you would do differently if you were starting out now?
OK, so this is a great question. And I know that I could sit here and listen like a million things.
I wish I had it done. I had not done it. But when I tried to do that, all I realised was that every time I wish I hadn't have done something that was technically a failure for the business, it actually ended up giving me so much knowledge from those failures. The only thing I would say that I wish I'd done differently is was to have a more dynamic accountant at the start, like opening up someone that you can really have simpatico with and that can guide you at the start. But everything that's been said has actually been something for the good. And I honestly, honestly, like feel that like there's just nothing like we've hired the wrong person. I've let the next time how to hire, not the wrong person. And if I have made an error with how we've dealt with a customer, then we plan to put that into practise that we don't do that with customers. We change how we change our language or script with customers. So I really wouldn't change a thing.
Oh, I love that one to really, really, really wouldn't.
Yeah, I often say to people, have you got a good accountant? Because I feel the same. If you have a good ticket that is just like a huge pillar in your army of tools that will really guide you on your money in things that you're potentially not aware of.
Yes.
And I know that I didn't have great book business to start and I was going to put that on that list. But then I was like, but having not a great bookkeeper meant that I had to learn everything. And it meant that I got really good at everything, which helps you to run your numbers and understand. And so what I did when I did get a paper, I could see what she was doing and the value that she was bringing to the business that I wouldn't have had that if I had someone from the start.
Yeah, I completely agree. I had a horrendous experience with a bookkeeper where they owed Lakshmi's reconciled like two thousand or more records in the wrong places. And it was just, oh my God. Yeah, they just they didn't know what my business did. And yeah, just a whole lot of things. But I agree. It made me really be like, OK, let's get super clear on this myself. And I think that's a really good lesson for anyone listening. I often talk to people about the basics of the basics of the web design or user experience, because I'll be like if you go and choose an agency, that's great, but at the basics so you know about and if they're going to charge you $25,000, you have some idea of where that money is going and why the. Doing what they're doing.
Exactly, yes. And so lastly, I guess, where can people connect with you and what sort of mixed view and is it wrong for people to come in and say hello to their email or phone you?
I was so devastated by a Google review that we got during the second lock down when we had only this woman was so mad at me because I was on the front counter. But it was so stressful that day. And she didn't come by to sort of have a connection and to say hello and how much she loved the book. But that day I was so. So overwhelmed that I wasn't being my best self, but I always encouraged so, but that's very rare that that happens. But I always encourage people to pop by the shop because it is a bit easier now that we're not in lockdown and we're open again. DIFONZO And be more free to say hello and sign a book you can. Damn, I've really loved entering people's biking queries on the DM on Instagram during the last year since the book's been out and just. Yes, say hi. Oh, I love that. That's really, really lovely to have. Like face to face connexions as well.
It is. It's so nice and it just means a lot. I love a woman. Came by for a birthday yesterday and I got my photo taken with her and she was so happy and it made me feel really good. And it's really nice to have such a really lovely, wonderful customers because that's what really got us through last year. And they really are the lifeblood of this business as well.
So far, so good. Well, we will make sure that we link to your address and not your personal one, obviously, to let people see it through the through the blinds. So it'll be like nothing is going to do at spikes, dot com and matrix spikes on them. And we'll put all the details in the show notes. But thank you so, so much for coming on and sharing your business, Natalie, and so many tips and insights that people can walk away with.
Thank you. That's been so lovely to talk about it, because I think that talking about it kind of crystallises. Well, I'm not really one to dissect why I do things, but this has been really beautiful to do that as part of the chat. Yes.
Thank you very much. It's getting in there at some point and seeing you meeting you face to face is.
All right. Thanks so much.
Thanks so much. Bye.
Oh, what an amazing woman and just such a source of so much inspiration and insight and tactical ideas and tips things, I know that people will be listening to this thinking, oh, my gosh, that is what I'm going to implement. I absolutely love chatting to Nat. I love what she's built with her business. I love that she's so focussed on the experience and also, you know, making it a great experience for her customers, but also a great experience for the people who work there and for herself as the business owner as well. So I would love to hear what you thought about this, what you've taken away from it. I'm sure that Nat would love to hear what you've taken away from it as well. So definitely reach out to them. You can find Beatrix bakes at Beatrix Bakers dot com. You can also follow them on Instagram along with another seventy five thousand people at ABH banks. And if you are based in Melbourne, you might want to get along and go and check out the cakes and the pastries and the goodies in person. And you can do that at six hundred and eighty eight Queensberry Street, North Melbourne and of course we'll link to all of that in the show notes. So two things really stood out for me. I mean, there were so many pieces of gold in that interview, but two pieces really stood out to me. The first was the concept of this. No fence of this fence where that is your boundaries, anything outside of that, you are welcome to say no and maybe you should say no. And then anything inside of that is what you can say yes to. I absolutely love that. I talk to so many small business owners who feel uncomfortable with setting boundaries. And I have been there for sure. And I think, you know, certain things will still come up that you feel awkward being around boundaries. But in the first few years, my business for sure, I did not set boundaries with clients and I would get back to them at all hours, even on weekends. I would forgo my stuff to be there for the clients. And definitely I still try and give a good experience with people. But I'm also building a business that is working for me and has to work for the lifestyle that I want as well. So I absolutely loved the idea and the concept of a no fence of kind of ringing a fence around what you will and won't accept. The second thing that I absolutely loved was the idea of the random extraordinary moments. I just think that is such a fantastic philosophy to run your business by and to really connect with your audience and build a community, because it's so much more than I'm just doing a basic transaction. It's OK. What else could make this a great day for that person? Absolutely loved it. And I think obviously it goes to show that things like that have helped Nat build such an incredible business, really, really strong community around that business. And, you know, it's been there for ten years. It's going to be there for another 10, 20, who knows however long she wants to keep running that fall. So absolutely loved it.
If you would like to read the full transcript of the interview or any links, you can find that over at mydailybusinesscoach.com/podcast/84. Thanks so much for listening. If you enjoyed it, go ahead and give it some love. Please leave or review or hit the five stars and of course share it with a business friend so that they can learn as well. Thanks so much. See you next time. Bye.
Thanks for listening to My Daily Business Coach podcast. If you want to get in touch, you can do that at mydailybusinesscoach.com or hit me up on Instagram at @mydailybusinesscoach.
