Episode 126: On Changing Careers, Setting Boundaries, and The Importance of Listening to Your Body - An Interview with Rebecca Jansma from space grace & style
In this interview episode, Fiona talks to Rebecca Jansma, founder of space, grace & style - an interior design studio based in Melbourne. Rebecca shares her journey before she started the business, switching careers, how she set boundaries with clients, and the importance of listening to her body. Listen now to get inspired by her story.
Topics discussed in this episode:
Catching up
space, grace & style introduction
The story behind the name
Rebecca's other careers
Rebecca's health
Her ubringing
Challenges of social media
Putting boundaries with clients
Standing out
Mentors, courses or books that helped
Tech tool recommendation
Doing things differently
Most proud moment in the business
Connecting with Rebecca
Conclusion
Get in touch with My Daily Business Coach
Connect with Rebecca Jansma
Episode transcript:
Look, I think for any career change, because I've done it a few times now I'm getting good at it. But I think it's always a fearful process, isn't it? So you have to think about really what you're afraid of about that change. And just tackle that head on. That's always been my process with anything. I don't pussyfoot around, I just tackle everything straight on.
Hello, and welcome to Episode 126 of the My Daily Business Coach podcast. Today, it is an interview episode. And that is where I interview just the most wonderful, creative, inspiring small business owners from across the globe. And I really tried to, you know, choose these people and you know, sometimes people contact us. But really, they've all got a common theme. And they really do embody the whole idea of passion with purpose and profit. And they're really open people that are kind, they're curious. And today's guest is absolutely no exception. And I'm really excited to finally be putting this one out there because we did record it quite some time ago. And on that note, because we recorded it quite some time ago. I know that when we're putting it out now, we talk about Australia being in a really good position. And I still think you know, comparatively we are. But yeah, just wanted to kind of put that disclaimer out there because we did record this when there was not the lock downs that are happening right now in Australia.
And speaking of Australia, I just want to pay my respects to the traditional owners of the land on which I record this podcast. And I do all my podcasts and all of my work. I have been working at home for six years almost. So yeah, definitely want to pay my respects to the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin nation, and acknowledge that sovereignty has never been ceded. We have so much work to do. So I pay my respects to their Elders past, present and emerging and to all their mob.
So like I said, today's episode is a small business interview. And it's with Rebecca Jansma, and she is the founder of space, grace and style. And Rebecca is, gosh, to such an interesting person, as you go through this interview, you'll be like me, I was just like, what, whoa, how did that happen? Oh, my goodness, you've had an interesting career path. She runs an interior design studio space, grace and style. But she started her career in a completely different area. She worked in hematology labs. And then she worked in mining labs managing these huge kind of projects in very remote parts of Australia. And I just find her whole journey fascinating. It was such a delight to talk to Rebecca. I think we first connected when Rebecca came to a Marketing for Your Small Business workshop that I was running in Daylesford and I just remember kind of being a little bit intimidated. I think I do get a little bit intimidated by people who come in. And I think oh my gosh, they probably know way more than me. She was just she's got this very calming presence. And she's beautifully dressed beautifully put together, as you would imagine, in the interior design space world. But yeah, I just remember thinking, "Oh, my goodness, I hope I can help this woman." And I hope I did. And yeah, we just got to talking. And we've connected on and off since then. And it was just such a pleasure to have her on this podcast.
Now before she came on. Rebecca had talked about switching careers, and that that was something she wanted to, you know, really get across in the podcast. And I really respect that because in my own business, it might seem like oh, yeah, you've pretty much you've been in marketing for 20 years. But I did lots of different things. And I do remember at times thinking, Oh, you know, if I just stayed in one company for 10 years, would that look better than "Oh, you're acting magazine publishing and advertising then you worked in book publishing, and now you're working online and now you're working in online retail, and now you're in digital agencies." And, and I sometimes, you know, looked at people that were say, in an ad agency from the minute they finished uni for like 17 years, and I did sometimes think oh, gosh, you know, I flipped and changed and move done things. And so it was just really like talking to a kindred spirit talking to somebody who had also done things, albeit in a much more drastic way. But yeah, so if you're listening to this, and perhaps you're working in a corporate job, or you're working in a different business, and you kind of have this idea of Gosh, I'd really, I'd really like to move into that. But you're thinking, Oh, you know, I've spent all this time here, or I've spent all this study doing this. So I should just stick where I am, then definitely tune in to this interview, because I'm sure that you're going to find a whole lot of inspiration and ideas from Rebecca's journey.
So Rebecca is, like I said, an interior design studio founder. She runs space, grace and style, which you can find spacegracestyle.com.au. And it might be a good one, depending on where you are in the world and what your situation is, right now. You might really need some home inspiration, and some design ideas. And definitely she has those in spades. But yeah, the other thing that Rebecca has in spades is just this very calm demeanor. That's one of the things I took away from talking to her. She's just got that sort of wise, curious, balanced, calm attitude to life, regardless of so much things that she's had going on in so many different challenges, including quite a big health challenge that she talks about. And yet, she just sort of has come through it the other side, and just, I don't know, she just puts out this calmness, and I just love being around people like that. So thank you so much, Rebecca, for coming onto the podcast. Here it is my interview with Rebecca Jansma, founder of space, grace and style.
Fiona
Welcome, Rebecca, how are you feeling about life right now in 2021?
Rebecca
Hi, Fiona, look, I'm feeling great personally, and also for the business. I think Australia is in a great position globally, especially after the events of last 12 months. But I also acknowledge that a lot of people aren't feeling fabulous about it. So I don't dare to skip around too much proclaiming how happy I am. But I actually feel really positive about the future. And I feel that we've got a lot going on for us here. Like, you know, Australia is a great place to be, we were in a very, very strong position, financially, economically. And because we live on a big island, that's gives us so many advantages, obviously.
Fiona
Yes, we were well away from a lot of things. I know a lot of people listening to this are all over the world and probably quite envious of the position that Australia is in. So yeah, I think it's good to be feeling positive. But I also see your point about not wanting to run around screaming about how great things are right now. So can you tell us a bit about your business people would have heard me introduce it just now. But yeah, I'd love to know from you kind of who you work with? And how did COVID change things? Particularly because part of your work is really going into people's properties and working with them? One on one?
Rebecca
Yep. So at the start of the pandemic, I suppose that was a bit challenging there, it will probably have might have been a month or six weeks, I think, where everything was pretty much put on pause. There was one project that continued because that they were allowed to but everything else clients just said, Look, just pause, press pause until we actually know what's happening. And it feels weird to even think about it now doesn't matter, because we didn't know what what we were dealing with what the long term consequences were what you know, we had no idea how that would all pan out. But it would have been four to six weeks, I think. And then everyone understood what was happening. Job. capers sort of sprang into action, whatever it wasn't. And I think people you know, regain confidence. So to be honest, we didn't, we didn't pick up a lot of new work, but everything else pretty much kept on track. And then towards the end of last year, everybody across the board in our industry just became busy. Busy, busy. So yeah, it's been a bit of a roller coaster. Really?
Fiona
Yeah, I can imagine. And how do you describe your business space, Grace and style? And also Why did you call it that?
Rebecca
Oh, I'll go to that part of the question first, because it's a good one. I knew I wanted to use the word space in the in the business name because for me it is about the space and how you feel within your spaces. That to me is the only thing that matters is how you feel in the space. Not the only thing. It's gonna look good. But anyway, that's the chief thing. So I was struggling with a name and I had been working doing some some consulting work with a friend who used to be one of the original magnate. He worked for Ogilvy in Mesa run in New York on Fifth Avenue. So he was like, Yeah, what one of those guys and extremely outgoing and vivacious and just an ideas men really like the classic. And I said to him, can you please come up with a business name and that's what he came up with. And I thought I thought, well, that's what I'm going with because I've always said to people don't don't ask somebody their opinion or pay some pay a consultant or pay a designer? Let me put that in, and then not take your opinion. So he came up with that idea for me for my business now. Yeah, people respond positively to to it. So that's how that started. But our business My business is its interior. So it really is we work within the interior space, working mainly with residential clients. But we've also done some commercial and hospitality. I love doing hospitality just a little bit more fanciful. But at the moment, we're pretty much 100% residential. So it varies from time. And people find us a lot of the a lot of the work for this business is word of mouth, or serial home buyers and sellers, which is fabulous, because you really get to know what a client wants and how their tastes are sort of evolving over time and working with them to create spices for their families for different stages of their life, all that sort of thing. But yeah, it's mainly it's fairly residential. So you're working with families with couples, you know, at various stages of life just bought their first home just got their first apartment. People with kids, little kids, big kids renovating teenagers downsizing holiday homes, ski lodges. Goodness, everything.
Fiona
If people want to kind of have a bit of a sticky week and also a last list, we'll put it in the show notes of course, but get spacegracestyle.com.au Today you I was having a look on there last week and saw your leopard print you've done somebody staircase in all leopard print carpet, and I thought it was like, easy. Yeah. Fruit myself. Love that. Because it obviously the person who owns that properties obsessed with that as well.
Rebecca
Well, it's funny, I like thought that everybody had this, but apparently they don't when you walk into a space, I have like a little series of images that pop through my mind, like a little film clip almost of different potential ways that room could be I'm notorious in restaurants, I'll sit there and just analyze the space. That's why I'm really bad, bad at restaurants. I sit in the back corner and does the displays. But yeah, so as soon as I walked into that home, that image popped in my mind of a leopard print steer runner, and I kept it to myself, because it's pretty outrageous. Until I got to know the client better. And then I sort of slipped in in conversation one day, and she sort of looked at me with this look. But then when it came time to make those decisions, I sort of gently led her towards that few options tore down that path. And she and her husband absolutely loved it. And it's like, I can't imagine it any other way. Fiona.
Fiona
It's beautiful. And I just, I was having this conversation with somebody the other day, and just you want helps with character. And I feel like these things give it character I think so many times now, especially where I live, because we're actually looking for a new house at the moment. And there's either like a house that hasn't been touched since you know, 1970 there's the house that maybe had like a 1995 renovation and still needs to work. Or there's like the house or character or this the house that the builder has come in and just made everything what what no character and just looks like a, I won't say the brand name, but a name here of a house kind of kid thing that comes in and build up. And so yeah, well, as soon as I saw that it just popped because I was like, God, I'd love to have leopard print stairs in my house. Well, we can fix that for you. Something that I love that I know you are keen to talk about today as well, which is that, you know, interiors is not your first career path. And I think it's really interesting to talk to people that have changed careers. So can you talk us through the other careers that you've had? And also, what spurred you to eventually move into interior design?
Rebecca
Yes. So I'll start with the other careers. My first training is in medical science. So as a hematology and microbiology major, so that's diagnostic pathology. Wow, very, very different. completely different. Like it's a complete one it really having said that you use both sides of your brain in both that field and this field because you know, you have to think creatively you have to be a differential diagnosis involves looking at different scenarios. There's a lot of troubleshooting, as well as the practical pragmatic and it's the same in this field. To be honest, it's there is a lot of technical. It's not fluffing cushions as we always say. It really is very, very technical business interior design. You know, hours we spend in front of the computer on CAD every day, you got to have a lot of understanding of the practicalities of buildings and design and that sort of thing. So, so I did that. And I've got pretty short attention span I worked out pretty early on but I was always fortunate to work for, for laboratories that understood that night. I have new roles that enabled me to sort of spread my wings and flex different muscles, I suppose. So I ended up in laboratory management at a pretty young age and started doing an MBA. So I was managing laboratories studying to do an MBA. Yeah, a lot of life bits and pieces in there, lots of travel lots and lots of travel for extended periods in between different things. Then I ended up on the west coast of Tasmania with my partner, and I was managing the mining laboratory in Queenstown. Wow, I look back on that time now and it was so remote. And so I remember we went there for the job interviews, because he was he was a mining engineer, whenever job interviews, and I thought why would anybody leave here? How am I going to do? committed to two years, within the first month, I thought I don't want to live anywhere else. I just loved it. I absolutely loved it. Yeah, so and then I was managing all the environmental testing because the west coast of Tasmania, I don't know whether you know much about but a pretty checkered history with mining. So they have very stringent mandates for environmental management, and testing and monitoring of the historic sites, and also any new works that go on all day on the west coast. So I eventually took over the management of all the environmental testing for the west coast of Tasmania. And again, because you know, I've sort of worked out different things that could be done, I ended up doing the shipping management and all sorts of things, all of us working in this highly charged testosterone Laden. Now, I'm not a morning person, we had to be on site for management meetings at seven o'clock in the morning. Oh, was pretty cold there as well, me Tasmania, freezing. And then in summer, it's really, really hot. But it was the most was the most incredible place to live. And really, really, I just look back on that time. And I just loved it so much. And I was, I was sad to leave. But what happened and this is where I'm moving to the my next sort of phase, I suppose. I got sick, I was very, very tired. And I would fall I think, so tired. And I've put my head down on my arms on the desk. And I think I'll just rest my head here from D asleep for an hour, like in the middle of the day. And luckily, I had enough with the door. But that's not good and not normal, as you know. So I you know, visit a doctor's thinking, you know, being a medical scientist, I could diagnose myself, which I sort of did. The doctors didn't agree with me anyway, it got worse and worse. And then I said, Look, just send me to any NT specialists. And turns out I had non Hodgkins lymphoma. Oh, wow. Yeah, it was pretty advanced by that stage, because it had been neglected for probably six months of pretty severe symptoms. And I look, you know, it's I don't have many regrets in life. But that's one of them that I didn't stay at my feet a bit harder. And say, No, just I'm not accepting that. That's not that's not possible and just insist and I, whenever I talk to people about their health now and people do because they know my background, I asked questions. And I did still do have some connections in the field. So I say Look, don't don't accept that diagnosis. Don't if you're you know, your body, if you're not feeling right about it, listen to your body and demand a review or demand a second or third or fourth opinion, whatever it takes, you get one shot.
Fiona
I'm really sorry that I completely agree with you, though. I'm pushing for another opinion.
Rebecca
Yes, yeah, it's important because we don't so often the patient's voice is downplayed in the system. Hopefully, that's changing that. I've often thought I'd like to be an advocate for, for patients to when they're going through that process, but maybe later, maybe later in life, or career. So yeah, it took some time off work to have the treatment associated with that, which was pretty intense and pretty bad because I had was in my console, so I had to have my tonsils out and then out of my head and neck radiated, I won't go into the details of what that was like, but it was horrific. And then I went back to work because that was just, you know, I loved working and I couldn't wait to get back to some sort of normal which is you know, I think for a lot of people that have had any sort of cancer that's what they want. They just want to get back to who they were before and it was too soon I got it again. So then I had to say okay, this is not working for me stress, I sort of realized that stress had been a component of me getting that and maybe some lifestyle I suppose. So that that was that point, the only way I reevaluated and thought okay, what do what brings me joy, what do I want to do with my life? So I decided to take six months off and really see About that, I was fortunate enough that we had bought before we moved to Tasmania, we had a beautiful property in your eyes behind the Pirate Bay, which is truly some of the most beautiful country I've ever seen. And I've seen a lot of lovely places all over the world. So I took six months off there and rehabilitated myself, forest walked every day. So I do believe in that cure of nature. Then I had a baby, which that was remarkable. Because Ivana told me with the chemotherapy for lymphoma, that was not even a possibility. I see my second one, the whole grind had been radiated. So he came along, and then I had to reevaluate.
Fiona
Wow.
Rebecca
So I ended up, this could be a very long story, but I know we're time sensitive. So for a cut to the chase, I ended up re re training in interior design. In the meantime, I was also running, I'd set up in a couple of days, because I couldn't sit still for six months, that was never gonna happen. So I just set up a property management and booking system. So this was before states before DMV and everything down there, people were booking holiday accommodation through the real estate agents and the real estate agents, we're not doing a very good job of it. So I just saw that opportunity and jumped on it. And it was only ran out for tolerating months, I think before that boy was born and sold it. So it was it was pretty successful. But there was just a niche in the market. So what people were doing, they would ring up and say we've got this place, can you furnish it and then organize the rental for sort of started doing interior design, more more styling, I suppose. And then after he was born, that was off probably another year just hanging out with him and and started studying again, and really started working before I was fully qualified because people kept contacting me and yeah, it's just grown from there bit by bit by bit.
Fiona
Wow, that is massive backgrounds, my goodness. And I feel like you've had 10 lives before you started this career.
Rebecca
It's funny, I was talking to somebody that shares the studio with me last week from a different he's from a different field. And he said, How old are you like 600? I said, No, I said, I just got a short attention span. It's like really done those things for like a few years here for us here a couple of years of travel a couple of years of his you know, but this is, this is probably the longest I've worked in any job, I guess. Oh, I must really like it.
Fiona
Thank you so much for sharing all of that, especially their health stuff. Because I think obviously this is a business podcast. But if one person is listening and goes and gets a check, because that thing that's been niggling them, you know, that's massive. So thank you for sharing that. And how's your health today?
Rebecca
Oh, my health is fabulous. So the last time I had that lymphoma was 2000. So pretty much after 10 years, they say that you have this much likelihood of of anyone else in the population of getting another cancer. So although the treatments I suppose the via that that does put you at risk for other trends, other cases, but one of the cruel truths of the role. But yeah, 20 years down the track, and I'm still like nothing, I don't even go for checkups anymore. I'm that confident that and I've made conscious changes to my lifestyle to actually to control the stress. That's why I devise the business still I have my you know, that you know, as your own as your own boss, you can, you can manage that so much better rather than being, you know, sort of a cog in a big wheel, which obviously didn't suit my personality, because I would just, I just grind harder. So now, I'm working for myself, I set my own boundaries, sometimes exceed them, you know, enough to take myself in check. But it's important, you have to take agency for your own health.
Fiona
Totally, my father had cancer, and he had a lot of radiation therapy and everything else. And so yeah, just hats off kids to get through that. He's amazing. And then to get through it and keep pursuing creativity and, and all of that. It's incredible. So thank you for sharing that. What was your upbringing like? You mentioned that your first career was in medical science where your parents you know, in that medical or health space, or even just with a small business owners or their type people that you kind of could look at and think, yeah, it's fine for me to change career because they have.
Rebecca
It's such a good question. My father. He's retired now, but he was an industrial chemist. And he worked pretty much for the majority of his life, probably for 30 years for Shell Australia. He was an industrial chemist, the chief chemist for Shell Australia. So he's pretty clever guy, but not an entrepreneurial bone in his body, but like a great ideas person, great innovator. He worked on some amazing things. My mother died when I was Very young, she was a nurse, but I never really, that never inspired me to want to do nursing. So I was raised by my father pretty much. And we never had the discussion about what you know what I could do. It was just never a thing. It was just always assumed I would be a scientist, I think. And it wasn't my great love, I have to say, and I wanted to be a chef, all my work experience I did in kitchens and and then he said, No, you can I was offered a very prestigious job at William Angliss, actually an apprenticeship at William endless, which was quite a prestigious position in those days. And he said, Now you can't do you need to finish HSC as it was then. So I did that got really good marks got into this course. And you know, you just sort of get on that roller coaster and I that's the one thing I don't want from my boy he's doing you 12 this year, is for him to feel that there's any obligation because that's wasn't that I wasn't pressured by dad. It was just, it was an unspoken assumption, I suppose. And I didn't have the guidance from anybody outside of the family or the school or anything like that to say, well, there's some other options. And I look back now at my dad was clearing out some covers a couple of years ago. He said, Oh, you might want these. And my old drawings from nobody anatomy classes. You know, we had to do dissections of insects and frogs and everything. Fianna they are the most beautiful drawings. They're detailed and the little dots and hash shadings and things like that. Nobody ever said, oh, maybe you should be doing something a bit more creative.
Fiona
Oh, that is beautiful. You found them. But ah, I'm, I'm with you. I actually just recently studied Sega kinesiologist. And it's a bit you know, it's a bit woowoo. But she was like, you know what happened at this age? I couldn't think of anything. And then she was like, What about subjects like in year 11. And 12? What what happened with him. And I was like, Oh, my God. And we kind of came back to that particular age was exactly the point at which my parents made me give up drama and art, which I was really good at, to do economics and physics. And I, and I, my mum regretted it. And afterwards, she said, I'm so sorry, we just didn't know. And we thought that doing the maths and sciences would get you better marks and help you, you know, all they wanted was to, for us to get all get into university and you know, have stability and all of that. But yeah, it's interesting when you look back, because you're like, there wasn't another path. It was just, you're going to do this, you're going to get to uni, you're going to do these types of subjects. And yeah, I'm the same point. I sometimes wonder what would have happened if I'd kept doing drama the whole way through?
Rebecca
Isn't a tessellating. It's the same thing. Maybe Yeah, and that look, I guess, all you can do is say, Well, I have we do things better for children, give them agency and those decisions and let them make their own mind, but whilst also keeping a certain amount of pressure on so they don't forget the time away.
Fiona
Yes. And, you know, our parents were just doing what they what they thought was the best thing at the time, I guess.
Rebecca
Yeah. And to be honest, it was like I never didn't like what I did. I always loved work, because I just loved what I did. And I think I was good at it. All those things contributed to where I am now. So they're all skills, you know that you build up this little toolbox? And none of it was bad. It was just maybe. Strange. Yeah. And so what have you done with those pictures? Are you gonna like frame them? Or put them in a book? Or? Oh, no, because they weren't very good paper. So that was just we had workbooks. So it was before computers, really, they weren't desktop, you know, that way. So, we had these little workbooks that we had to put all our experiments and things in. And so they were that sort of brownie soft. On paper, like just like a note, Petty sort of thing. So they're not fabulous, but they're treasures, I suppose.
Fiona
Yeah. So beautiful. Good one dad for finding them. So you are in the homeless face. And from I'm guessing from the age of your son that you've been in that for close to two decades, is that right?
Rebecca
No, probably 12 years, I think since I technically started the business. So yeah, I studied because he was young. I was studying part time doing a little bit of work. But as I went along, but yeah, technically, I think I registered the business in 2008. Maybe.
Fiona
Okay, so just you were working in it, though, before social media, because I think Facebook was 2007. But people didn't really get on to it for a while. And then, and then Instagram, I think was 2012. So you begin your career, you know, well, before kind of social media was really taking over so much of our space and our lives. What do you think has changed or perhaps being challenged by the rise of social media in relation to what you do? Because it's so visual,
Rebecca
yet it's really interesting. And when you put in that time frame, it does make me realize what a difference it's made actually. It's look positively it's a it's a lot easier. I think to get your face and your voice and your work out there. From a negative point of view, it's very hard to be differentiated in what is becoming such a image saturated world. I know myself, I used to be able to look at an image. And remember, you know, if I had to think about that project, I think, no way did I say that, I'd go back to that website or that article, I'd seen it and i'd know which, which practice had done it. Now I see so many images a day, I have to keep a notorious like filer of things in Instagram with hashtags, and I do screenshots with hashtags. And then on Instagram, I do save for projects and different things. So I do it that way. But before I used to be able to just remember it, but now, I think there's so much imagery, and so much repetition of imagery that I think it's losing, it's becoming a bit more homogenous, or I think there's a danger of people losing the individuality in in what they do or what they want in their homes. So that maybe I see a lot of this East Coast American style creeping in even a bit of California style, and it sort of feels appropriate for what we are, but I'm not sure that it's a good thing. I feel it's the world's becoming very homogenous. And when we travel, that's what we love to see. We love to celebrate local style and local, the local voice or I do anyway.
Fiona
Yeah, it's so right. Even just, I don't know, sometimes when I see houses, profiled or something, and I'm like, wow, and then I'll flick back and be like, Oh, my God, they have the exact same round the exact same light beings, you know, like, it's like, wow, nothing's I don't know, sometimes I feel like people go out and just go, Oh, just take make it exactly like this home. And it's like, Where's your style? Where's your taste? Yeah, that's
Rebecca
exactly right. And I even saw one the other day, and I thought, Oh, that's blah, blah. And then I looked at it closely. Now it's not, it's a pretty much exact replica of blah, blah. Yes. So that was a bit freakish.
Fiona
Yeah, my husband is obsessed with not obsessed at all. He's not really obsessed with much besides surfing and skating, but he's really interested in apartment or magazine. And part of the reason I think he loves it, he seems like people's houses are Miss. They're cluttered, that's crappy. He's like, but that's real. They're not all the time. So yeah, it's interesting. Because whenever I look through that, I'm always like, Oh, these people look like they're hoarders. And he's like, yes. And it's like, most people's houses look like that. I was like, really, as we can get into this whole Instagram bubble of every single part of our house needs to look, you know, perfect. When I think about my parents growing up, and they didn't have a whole lot of excess money as well to spend on stuff. But my mom would make cushion covers for the couch, she would you know, buy things from our shops all the time, it was definitely not, you know, stylized, or as perfect as things look on Instagram.
Rebecca
No, nothing is and I think that's a real danger for our clients as well, because they see, they see these images, and they think, why am I not? You know, that's that whole sort of aspirational thing, I suppose. But it's not how people live and I can look at a styled room and think, well, that's that I can even pick the stylist most often. You know, if they brought in paper furniture, it's I can just see what's going on there. But it's not people don't live like that. And it's important for people, consumers, I suppose and clients to realize that a lot of that imagery, they say is often it is a styled photoshoot, the stylists bring in all sorts of things, they put it there. Really, I don't do my shoots that way, because it doesn't feel right for me and my work, but a lot of people do. And it creates sort of an idea that everybody is living. Perfection. So far from the truth. It's not it's not achievable.
Fiona
But yes, yes. And speaking of that, I work with quite a few interior designers. And I know you're in an industry that is harder than perhaps other industries, to put real boundaries in place. Because you're often working around other people's timelines, you're working with suppliers, it's a stressful thing to imagine it would be a stressful thing to create a home for someone and have everyone's you know, input because I can look at a cushion say and think it's beautiful. And my husband can look at it and be like, Oh, that's gross. Like, why would we bother? So how do you put boundaries in place with your clients? And I guess, what advice would you give to others? Because before we hit record, we were talking about how you're kind of half a psychologist, half a marriage counselor, and then the designer on the side. So how have you over the last decade and some years How have you been able to put those boundaries in place with clients and protect yourself especially with the kind of health challenges you've had in the past?
Rebecca
Yeah, it's such a good question. I we all joke amongst ourselves that we've had marriage counselor. And that really we should do a bit of psychology training in, you know, degrees. But there's none of that. And there's also no business training. So that's another another shortcoming. I think, for me, I've always been pretty good with boundaries. Personally, and after I was sick, I, you know, it was just a necessity that I actually had to put those boundaries in place. So, look, I think part of it also is making sure right at the start that you're very clear with your clients about how this is going to work, and, and it works in their favor end in mind, because they know, and then I know that we're all clear, this is how we communicate, these are the deliverables. This is when you will be receiving this, this is what this will look like. And in X number of weeks, you will receive this and Lalalalala. And I say if you say something in your ad, and you say, say a piece of art that you're thinking about for the lunchroom, send me a text with it, send me just send me a photo, I'll give you the heads up or the heads down. I'm brutal like that. I just tell it like it is. But I say I've just I won't be answering any messages, emails, texts are anything after hours or on the weekend. So don't be offended. It's just business hours. But I will get back to that place in our date with images, things you like things you say. So it's that they know I'm communicating. But there are boundaries. And I'm just clear with it at the start. And it's all it's just, that's what it is. I've never heard anybody be upset because I didn't text them back straightaway at six o'clock on a Saturday night, which can happen.
Fiona
I love that you you say that, like that no one's had an issue because I feel like, quite often when I work with interior designers, and we talk about boundaries, there's often almost not a defense, but like, oh, but you know, my clients need, you know, they're gonna think I'm not not responsive, or I don't care or, you know, I need to be available whenever they, you know, they're busy people, and I'm kind of helping them and, and it's like, no, they have pain, business relationship.
Rebecca
You're 100%, right. It's business. It's not, you're not their friend, you're not the counselor, you are a trades person. That's what we are trades people. And we're offering a service and service operates between this time and this time. Feel free to contact me whenever it suits you. But I'll be getting back to you during this time. And this time. And it's it's very simple. You wouldn't expect your dentist to take a message from you on a Friday night or a Saturday night, or Sunday.
Fiona
Only get lack of faith. Well, you can't get a bank on the phone. You can't get you know, I mean, so many call centers now finish at four o'clock. Like they're not even open on, you know, the nine to five anymore. So, yeah, people seem to expect a lot from the creative industries.
Rebecca
I have heard from other designers though, that they they identify themselves as people places. So I don't let me just be clear about that. I'm probably not so far away from a people pleaser. I just want to I just want to create beautiful things for people. But it's not about you know, being that person that makes you happy? Because I think that comes that's a whole other discussion, isn't it? I've heard other designers say I'm a people pleaser. And I think that's really dangerous territory, for any for any professional to get into. Because you think it's so wide open for manipulation and all sorts of things, don't you?
Fiona
Totally. And also, I always say to people at your business, you started it if you want someone to tell you exactly what to do and to be in charge of your time, like go and get a job because then you'll get you know, you get sick pay, and you'll get all the things that you don't get running your own business. Yeah, I often like it's or even if you are a people pleaser, consider how you people like how you pleasing yourself as a person first, because it's your business, you're in control. And why did you start the business? Yes, yes. Oh, my gosh, I totally agree. And you like the business that you're in? And you've said before, you know, from social media and just the rise of it? There are a lot of people in this space, I'm sure it must frustrate you at times, because it's a lot of people with no experience and very little training, if any, and they're coming up and they are able to, you know, come up mainly through social media. How have you carved out a niche for yourself when there's just this huge or I don't know, maybe because I'm sort of connected with an industry it seems like a very high volume of interior designers and material stylists. But how do you kind of stand out in that?
Rebecca
That's such a good question. And that you're absolutely right. It is it's an enormous growth industry and all sorts of different levels of you know, from someone who does a couple of weeks course or a six week course to someone who's done a an honors degree in interior architecture there. They're coming from all directions. And because it's an unregulated industry that you don't have to have a shingle at your door to call yourself an interior designer, unfortunately You know, they're all on the same level to, to a client, they'll see A, B, C and D across that spectrum of qualification. And they'll see the same thing. It's a real problem, because I actually think what it does is devalue the industry a little bit. But hopefully, I think the interior design Institute is working towards some sort of licensing program. So that might help a bit. But in terms of how do I carve out my my niche, I think I'm just lucky that Fiona have been doing it long enough that I have created a body of work that speaks for itself. And people can see the quality of the work, the level of detail that I bring. And, you know, the way I work with people, not to say that that can't change, because I think it can, and people are always looking for something new and fresh and exciting. But if that's not followed up with substance, it's very easy to create a pretty Instagram page with images from all over. And people do and they look fabulous. But there's nothing there. If there are work. It's really basically a curated feed. So it's hard. I don't think I have a niche, but I have, I have my own style. And I know I have people that love what I do. So and because I do I get a lot of feedback, a lot of feedback from people just in DMS and messages and email saying, really the loveliest things. So yeah, I think you just have to create your own. For me, it's being authentic. And it's being true to what I think good design is. And good design is not about a look, or about putting a particular chair in every project or creating something that's on trend. I hate that word. But it's about creating spaces that are lovely for people to live in and meet the needs aesthetically. And emotionally.
Fiona
Oh, I love that. Yeah, it's it's hard. I hear because business coaching is not regulated, you know, anyone can just decide tomorrow, they'll be a business coach. And yeah, I've definitely had some people even do ad hoc sessions with me and their business coaches, and they've shown me their plan. And I'm like, Where did Where did this framework come from? And they're like, I did you know, I did a Tony Robbins weekend course. What happens after this? What if a client goes through this and they want something else? And they just don't have any answers? And you're like, because you haven't thought about it yourself that you need to come at it from your own? experience your own knowledge and, and do what feels true to you. So I feel like yeah, I totally hear you on that front. And obviously, you've done a really good job to be able to be in business for 12 plus years in this industry. So well done. Thank you. So far, so good. To be around for you know, so long in this industry. What do you think has helped you most with building your business? Obviously, you've had a really interesting career, and you've taken skill sets from different industries. But Have there been any mentors or courses or books or even like mantras that you tell yourself that have helped you build this business?
Rebecca
Look, I think for any career change, because I've done it a few times, now I'm getting good at it. But I think it's always a fearful process, isn't it? So you have to think about really what you're afraid of about that change. And just tackle that head on. That's always been my process with anything, I don't pussyfoot around, I just tackle everything straight on. So I'm a bit of a bulldog in that way. I do wish I had had a mentor for this business, just because I think I would have probably structured the financial setup differently to start with. And that would have been very helpful to have maybe an accountant or somebody, you know, really good business person that understood how to make that work I've got I got there in the end, but it was, you know, it would have been good to have a leg up with that in the start at the start. And I think for any small business owner, that's, that's a good thing to invest in for your business. I sourced outsource all my accounting and bookkeeping and so forth, because it's not my strength, though. I think my time is better spent doing the design, and I pay somebody else to do that. That's also a great investment for me. So I think your mentors, not so many, but I had an intrinsic trust in myself that I could do that. And I'm just a bloody hard worker, I've always worked really hard. And I think what's it's another 9020 rule, it's 80% hard work is at 9010 80% of your work will come from 20% of your clients. And there's something also about it's 20% or 20% inspiration and 80% hard work. I think it might even be 90% hard work and 10% inspiration that's for my business. Geez, I remember that. That quote. But then that's what I might just have. I'm a hard worker. And I remember years ago when I was on the farm, there were a couple of ladies they were sort of from the Western District. So really lovely classic genteel ladies, and they opened a rabbit farm. They decided they wanted to start farming rabbits for consumption. And then they opened this this retail shop and it was fabulous. And it was so stylish and they just gorgeous. And I said, Oh, you've been slugging overnight success. You said, darling, overnight success takes four years. Yes.
Fiona
It's so true. Like, yeah, so many times when I'm interviewed people, and I, you know, have a look in, they're like, Oh, yeah, I started this 11 years ago. And today, I made a feature. And I'm like, oh.
Rebecca
So that's always stuck with me. And, you know, whenever I for us too hard, you know, not getting any traction and just sort of seem to be treading water. And because in the early years, sometimes you do jobs just to get you know, you do, it's like a loss leader, right, you just do something for the portfolio, you'll start, you haven't got you pricing quite set up properly. So you end up losing money on it, but still a great job. So all that sort of stuff. And it does, it takes us to get that whole intricate network of all the little systems within your business. Absolutely right. So that it works for you, and what your needs are. Because, to be honest, if you're setting up a business or changing careers from you know, I was pretty successful, I was making good money. And to change from something like that, you have to be very clear about what your values are, what's important to you, at this particular time in your life, and how are you going to meet your needs moving forward in your new business? How are you actually going to do that? And what's important? So obviously, the money wasn't important. I mean, obviously, I need the money to survive. But that wasn't the driver for me, moving into this field. So I think there are a lot of those things you need to think about. And I, I look back on it now. And I thought you I think it would have been great to have somebody to talk that over with but I didn't I sort of worked it out for myself. But anyone listening, get a mentor
Fiona
Good advice on that as well, like outside of you know, all of the experience that you've gained and the knowledge and things you've learned along the way? Are there technology tools or platforms or things that just help you run your business that that you just couldn't live without?
Rebecca
AutoCAD is my bread and butter, I suppose that's what I've spent a lot of time and people are working for me, but and we use, we use harvest for time tracking, I use Xero for invoicing and project management and that sort of thing. But apart from that, we're still very much analog in the creative space. I do sit down, I do sketch a sketch things. And I've fiddle and dawdle and fiddle around and play with ideas. And I throw materials together. And it's still very much in that. Yeah, just hands on sort of very analog space for me. And I like it that way. I think I could probably it's not to say that I couldn't streamline and I read your email blasts religiously every Sunday night. And I think I'll be doing that. Yeah, I'll be doing that. So I've got them all in a little file somewhere to be to be implemented.
Fiona
Oh, well, I love that you have tactile things. Because I think one thing I've noticed, especially from COVID last year, and I just, I used to sew a lot. And I like not not anything right just like quilts and stuff. And I just find cooking sewing and I was thinking about it the other day, my husband and I was talking about it. And I was just I like that there's something finished at the end of it. But I also like it's completely away from Digital. Like you're cooking, you're baking you're you know, mixing things with your hands or your sewing, and you're just listening to music. It's a total escape. So I think it's amazing that you're doing that all the time.
Rebecca
Yeah. And when I think it fades, it does fade, the creative process I think I did read about that years ago about something, doing things with your hand actually activates differently with your hands, activates a different signup deck sort of processes in your brain that inspire creativity and innovative thinking so that I know it's funny, I've watched my son and he's studying and he's he's got this. He started doing this lockpicking just, you know, with her lock picking kit. And he sits there and he's studying reading things. And he's always doing something with his hands. And he's learning he's picking padlocks and things like that while he's he's not a criminal thing, there's a whole thing around it. And I think that's because he's that's what's happening. He intrinsically knows to do that with these hands. He's doing that and it's somehow activating these other other learning pathways in his brain.
Fiona
Yeah, it is fascinating. I have one of my siblings is just incredible with his hands. He's always been. He's always been great. My parents used to always be like, Oh, I should be a trainee. You know, he's just so good at fixing things and doing things he's not he's a lawyer. But yeah, there are people that are just like my husband's very good at it. He could feel anything and just, you know if he wants to build, like, we needed a bigger table for Christmas, and he just was like, yeah, I'll just get Bunnings and get a piece of wood and you're sorted out. And he did and it comes out every Christmas. But yeah, I think it's it's great for people to consider how could they do that a bit more, especially for people like me who's who's predominantly on, like zoom calls all day as their business model.
Rebecca
Cooking is great, though, don't you think? Like, it serves a few purposes, it puts like a draws a line at the end of the day, and it does create that spice amali doing that it's 100% engaging, you can't be really thinking about other things, because you have to 100% focus on that.
Fiona
Yes, yes, I love cooking, I cook a meal from scratch every single night pretty much for our kids and myself. And my husband. So yeah, I love it. It's just you can just zone out. And so you did mention before, you know wanting to get a mentor, is there anything else that you would have done differently if you were starting out now?
Rebecca
No, I don't think so. Actually, look, I deliberately and I guess I'm lucky that I was quite mature. And I had a lot of runs on the board, in business and in other people's business and in large businesses. So I understood the processes of managing and managing projects, and managing staff and HR and all those things. So I had a really good background and a solid understanding of that a lot of that doesn't translate to a small business, but there are principles. Nevertheless, I think I also, I knew how I wanted to set the business up because I knew I wanted to have flexibility to spend time with my son. So I basically reverse engineered it and said I want to earn this much money. I want to work this many hours. What do I have to do to achieve that? And that's how I came up with my business model. It wasn't very complicated. I might have done it all back to front piano.
Fiona
No, I think that's amazing that you've done that. I was like, like nodding my head because because most people don't do that. And that's exactly what I did. Because I was jumping from a really well paid career. We didn't have you know, I didn't have this trust fund to back me up or something. So I yeah, had to sit down and go through the numbers and be like, Okay, this is how much minimum I'd have to earn. This is how many days I'd like to work so that I think Yeah, hang out with my son. And yet that's how exactly how I my business together. And that's what I work with so many clients. Now I'm going back to the start and figuring out how often do to work? Like how much do you need to get paid? Okay, what does the revenue streams look like? So yeah, I think it's it's exactly the right way to do it. Because we just don't so many times I think people get loaded with, I've got my beautiful Instagram feed, and I've got my beautiful looking website. And they're not thinking about the money part of it, and the lifestyle requirements from the money.
Rebecca
That's right. And that's what I loved about doing the coaching with you. I mean, I'd love to do a full full session. I love the I do actually also do group coaching, but when I've got a bit more time, but what you highlighted is that you did the workshop with you in Daylesford Yes, yeah. But what I loved about that was that you focused on, you do talk about money. And you do talk about Okay, what do I need in life? How do I sustain because I am the breadwinner for my family? So, if the phone stops ringing, I'm in a very big trouble with that. So yeah, how do you how do you sustain that? How do you make sure that that revenue stream won't dry up? What other things? Can you look at? How does so I think, and this is harking back to the other question of this, this new sort of expansion of interior designers coming on the on the scene, I think a lot of them, maybe don't have that rigor behind them in terms of setting up a business. And it's, it might be that they're financially secure. And it's just a little side gig. And they're not, they're not charging enough, so they're not making good money out of it. And if they're not, then the clients won't respect that either. So it's this big sort of circle of financial reality that then has a spin off to other businesses that are comparing them to those businesses. And I think could be problems down the track, but I'll just stay in my lane and just keep doing what I'm doing. That's all I know how to do anyway.
Fiona
So good advice there. It's I guess, you've been in this industry for quite some time. What are you most proud of from your journey running space, grace and style.
Rebecca
Look years and years ago, when I was first starting out, I I spoke to a designer who has become a friend and he's a very amazing designer. And we were just chatting one day and he said your next project is only as good as your last project. So just make sure you're always doing something that you know, never go backwards. basically make sure you're always pushing yourself. And that is the best advice in any business. I think just make sure you're always progressing. just pushing the boundaries every time doing something a little bit better. And if a job doesn't Make those criteria, you know, if you if you can afford not to don't do it, don't take it wait for something better to come along. And I've been lucky in that I can I look I've been I've been very fortunate. And I think like that's come into it that I've just been presented with amazing clients who are sort of like patrons, as opposed to the arts to what we do, which is a very creative, you know, a lot of the time we get free license to do things, or there are no really high restrictions around the design brief. And then we'll present something and I'll be like, Yeah, let's do that. You do the little secret like k in here. So every time trying to do something a bit better. And the other thing that I've also been proud of is that I've managed to keep this business small, it's easy to grow a business like this quite large, because once the work starts rolling in, you can really snowball along with it. But I didn't want that I don't want to big Empire, I deliberately want to keep a small studio, because I know stress is not good for me. And I do take on more than I can chew. And that's not good for me. So I've deliberately kept it small. But that has a really, really positive effect. And one that I think our clients appreciate, which is that we have a one on one experience. So the client has, they feel like they're getting really personal service from me, and from my small team. And it's never feels like a big machine. And we're just churning stuff out, every space is different. I think if you look at the body of work that we've done there, people say I can see it's your work, but it's not a thing, we can't see it. But there's no one particular thing that stands out that it's like that studio, everybody, every space is catered for that particular scenario, that family that home, that person. And that's what I'm proud of is we create individual spaces, and I get the feedback. The best thing is when when a client gets back to you and says I just want to we used to find excuses to go out and leave the house or go away for weekends now we find excuses to stay home. We love it that much.
Fiona
Well, that's beautiful feedback. You can't really get any better with that, but you've just made the sanctuary for them.
Rebecca
That's the dream. And that's all I that's all I want to do is just make beautiful spaces for people to be in. Because I know how that can impact your life.
Fiona
Yeah, and the whole, you know, community, like if you're spending, you know, time quality time with your family, you know, getting to know them and getting to know what's important to them. And then that trickles out into your mood and everything else with the larger community. So it's amazing what you do. And so what is next for you? And I guess you know, people listening to this who are quite inspired as I'm sure they will be because I'm inspired listening to your story. Where can they connect with you?
Rebecca
Probably through the website is the easiest thing. Instagram, of course, I'm on that every day too much apparently, according to my stats. As we all are, I suspect so Instagram at @rebeccajansma. space grace and style is the website- spacegracestyle.com.au. There's a contact page there. But yeah, it's easy. shoot me an email, shoot me a DM. And I'm also starting with a podcast with Camilla Moulders, who's another Melbourne designer. We're starting a podcast because we're always talking about design and architecture. So that came up in discussions. workshop we did together actually. So we're calling it the design curious. Because that's, I think there's so much curiosity around design now. But not maybe the understanding. So the whole precept of that is to get inside the mind of the designer. So it might be an interior designer might be an architect might be a product designer, furniture designer and see, you know, actually understand the process. Why did you do that? What drove that decision, you know, the nitty gritty bolts and details of all that and how that actually works? Because it is fascinating.
Fiona
Wow, that is congratulations. And when does that start? When are you hoping to kind of launch it?
Rebecca
Oh, we're in it. We're in the phase. Now you know this so well, I suppose of, you know, working out how the how, what, why, where and the money question of sponsorship and things like that. So hopefully within the next month or six weeks. He does have an Instagram page and then website so it hasn't got a website, but it's got a domain and an Instagram page, which is that's the first step isn't to anything. Okay?
Fiona
I mean, it makes sure that we check that out. I'm literally taking it out right now. We're gonna make sure that we put that into the show notes so that everyone can come on and hear everything that you're doing. But yeah, it's been absolutely lovely chatting to you and hearing more about Your journey and it's just it's very inspiring everything you've gone through and everything you're building. So thank you.
Rebecca
Thank you. Fiona. Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure.
Fiona
Take care, bye.
Rebecca
Bye.
Fiona
What an absolute delight. Oh, my goodness, Rebecca is just like I said at the start, it's really calm, really wise, really intelligent. And, yeah, it was just an absolute pleasure to talk to her. So I would love to know from you what really stood out. And I'm sure Rebecca would as well. So if you're not already following her, go on over to Instagram and find her you can do that at @rebeccajansma on Instagram. And of course, we'll link to that in the show notes. The other great place that you can go and get amazing inspiration is the website for space, grace & style, which is spacegracestyle.com.au. And again, we'll link to that in the show notes.
Two things really stood out to me, so many things didn't. But to that, I'll call out.
First one. Absolutely, to listen to your body and listen to your instincts. And Rebecca talked about that in terms of the diagnosis of non Hodgkins lymphoma, and sort of regretting that she didn't listen more to her body. And she sort of took, you know, on other people's thoughts or ideas, and that really hit home because my own mother went through something similar, but she didn't have that type of health issue. But she did have something else. And yeah, went through something where her doctor had said one thing, and mom just really was like, You know what, no, I think something else is wrong. And she went got a second opinion. And yet something definitely was wrong. So I definitely Yeah, I completely agree with that. And I think in terms of business as well, often, we don't listen to our instinct, I know that in the six years, I've been doing this, this is my sixth year, I've had two probably three clients, two clients, really, that were really not good. Not good clients was really a crappy situation. And in one of them, I really I said three times, why don't we just call it a day? I don't think this is good for either of us. And that person said, No, no, no, I really want to keep going. And I really wish from that very first console call that I had with this particular person. I was like, You know what? They're asking these weird questions. They're asking these questions that kind of tell me that maybe there's some sort of ulterior motives here. But I didn't listen to my gut. And I kind of went through and it was just a really awkward, not great experience. So I wish I'd listened to my gut. And I really do now. So if I even you know, if we get an email, and I don't like the tone, I will say to my VA, no, they're not for us. So you've just got to listen to your gut, and in my book, even I talked about listening to the data, of course, but also listening to your gut and how you feel about things. So I love that Rebecca brought that up. Because, yeah, I really, really agree with that.
The second one, and I love this, especially in her industry, because I work with quite a few interior designers. And it can be an industry where boundaries are really blurry. So I love that she said, you know, you really need to set your boundaries. And that starts with being very clear from the beginning, how communication will work, also being clear on the system and process that you'll walk your clients through, and what they can expect in terms of deliverables and timelines. And I loved Yeah, just that she sort of took ownership and she was like, with this has to work for both of us, we both have to be happy with the outcome. And I think sometimes we can get so consumed with the idea that we know you have to create this incredible customer experience, you can do that whilst also protecting your boundaries as well. They're not mutually exclusive. So yeah, absolutely loved that.
But I'd love to hear what you thought. So totally come on over to Instagram. I'm at @mydailybusinesscoach, and let me know in the DMs, what sort of stood out to you, you can also share this episode and let us know I would absolutely love that I love when people share it and tag at @mydailybusinesscoach so that we can see what you're listening to what you think of it. It just Yeah, it really, really makes all of this worthwhile.
The other thing I would love is if you have a friend who's a small business owner, or maybe they want to become a small business owner, please share this episode with them. It just helps you know them maybe get inspiration and ideas and you never know what could come up just a simple share. So I'd love it if you could do that. Thank you again, Rebecca, for being part of this podcast. I hope you're listening. And yeah, thank you for tuning in and listening to my interview with Rebecca. That's it for now. I'll see you next time. Bye.
Thanks for listening to the My Daily Business Coach podcast. If you want to get in touch, you can do that at mydailybusinesscoach.com or hit me up on Instagram at @mydailybusinesscoach.
