Episode 452: Jenny Matek of Studio Jenka
In this episode, Fiona chats with Jenny Matek from Studio Jenka. She shares her inspiring journey from growing up around construction to founding a successful interior design and renovation business. She reflects on balancing her creative passion with working in a male-dominated industry. Tune in!
You'll Learn How To:
Transition from retail management to interior design and renovations
Challenges faced as a woman in construction
Overcoming imposter syndrome
The impact of renovation
Focusing energy on clients' needs over competition
Personal experiences with home renovations
The importance of budgeting in renovations
Role of interior designers in maximising renovation value
Collaboration between designers and builders
Managing project expectations and avoiding cost surprises
Utilising video communication for client updates
Marketing strategies for interior design businesses
The significance of professional photography in branding
Balancing family life with business operations
Struggles of managing a business as a couple
Importance of business coaching for goal setting
Power of access to education and information
Advice for young entrepreneurs: confidence and taking risks
Challenges in hiring staff and delegating tasks
Pride in winning a national award and industry recognition
Value of client relationships and networking strategies
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Sometimes we'll just laugh and go, how the hell does that person have 80,000 followers on Instagram? And we'll know off the grapevine that they've only done one job that year and they'll be using other people's photos and all that stuff. When I look at that, I think, am I an imposter? I'm like, no, I'm good at what I do. I listen to my client, I just stay in my lane and I know what I do, I know what I do well and it's all about delivering for my clients. I try not to get bogged down by Instagram and seeing all these people coming through because it's easy. I sit there and go, I'm an imposter. I'm not an interior designer. Like what is an interior designer?
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Welcome to episode 452 of the My Daily Business podcast. Today is an interview episode and there's so many tips and insights in this one that you'll want to take notes. If you do want to take notes and you're not in a position to do that, you can always find a full transcript of all of our podcast episodes over at mydailybusiness.com/podcast. For this episode, it'll be forward slash podcast/452. But before we get stuck into that, I want to let you know that if you have ever wanted to write a book as part of your business, as part of your brand, build your authority and put yourself out there, whether it's interior design, whether it's business coaching, whether you are a lawyer, whether you any industry we have, how to get your book published course and coaching program kicking off in October.
We did the first round of that I think in May this year and have already had people pitching to publishers, which is amazing. I've had so many people reach out since the second book came out, Business to Brand, which you can buy everywhere now. Thank you. Although I do think, sorry if you're in Europe, I think you have to wait until the 22nd of October. But you can pre-order it everywhere that you usually buy your books from. But I've had a lot of people reach out about that and the second book and doing audiobooks. We're going to be talking about all of that in the course. You can find that at mydailybusiness.com/courses or just send me a DM on Instagram @mydailybusiness_ and I'll send you the link to join.
That is six weeks of live coaching as well as a course that goes through everything, my pitch tech template, marketing template, how to choose the publisher, what royalty you should expect, how you get paid that royalty when you get paid that royalty, all of these sorts of things. If you've ever thought about doing this for your business and it can do wonders, believe me for your business, then just check out the course mydailybusiness.com/courses. Before we get stuck in, of course, I want to acknowledge where I'm coming from and acknowledge the traditional owners and custodians of these beautiful lands here in North Warrandyte. And that is the Wurrung and Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation. And I pay my respects to their elders past and present and acknowledge that sovereignty has never been ceded. Let's get into today's interview episode.
I recently had a woman in the US who runs a PR firm reach out to me on LinkedIn because she had used this podcast as an example podcast for people trying to get publicity. She used a particular website in the US that showed the top 1% of podcasts in the world. We are in there, which is lovely to see and I was shocked, I dunno, this person, she'd made a video and there was all these comments and she said, I hope you don't mind me using you as an example. And it was interesting for me to see her take on my podcast and on like the webpage and, and some stuff like that was very, very interesting. Good way to get a connection happening to give people some free help with their podcast. But it always surprises me that this podcast is in the top 1%.
I know we are at almost a million downloads. We've never spent a dollar on advertising, which is hugely thanks to all of you listening. But what it means is that because people are looking at these different rankings, we get pitched all the time. It used to be maybe like five times a week. I would say it's five times a day now. I would say 90% of those pictures, it's obvious we are just getting pitched a copy-and-paste job. And now there are a lot of people who will spend money on podcast pictures, like people who will generally spend their whole day like an admin person sending out pictures for you to get on a podcast. One, we just dismiss so many of them. I mean we write back to every single person, or not me personally but my admin, but occasionally you get an actual pitch that is interesting that shows that the person has listened to the podcast, that they understand the type of people that you interview, the type of interviews and what inspiration and insights that we want to glean from that interview.
Today's guest was exactly that. What's more, she sent a brilliant video pitch. And when I said that to her, she said, I think I learned it from your podcast. I'm like, well you are the only person out of the thousands and thousands of downloads we get every week that like then put that into action. That's a huge lesson in itself. Like don't just listen and go, I should do that, do it. But her video was just so warm and friendly and I got a sense of who she was. You could tell it was not just a video that was then sent to 20 different podcasts. It was sent to us at the My Daily Business podcast. And it was just so warm and wonderful and she had a great story and she's in a great industry.
I thought, yes. Just let that be a lesson that if you're trying to get the attention of somebody, think outside the box, and try and do something different. Don't send the stock standard email that we get 50 times a day, not 50, but pretty close to it. Sometimes it feels like. Just try and stand out and that's what's going to work for you. And it worked for today's guest. Who is it today? I'm talking to Jenny Matek, who has been in the interior design and building and construction industry for decades and is very well-known to many people in the industry in Australia. You will know her and if you don't, then today's interview is going to give you so many insights and tips. Jenny runs Studio Jenka, she's a principal interior designer there and has a wealth of 20-plus years I think at least doing interior design, project management, furniture selection, all of that, but also has such an understanding of construction.
She talks you through that, which is fascinating. And just her going and pursuing all of these things, particularly being a female in a very male-dominated industry. She has that. She also runs bathrooms and projects with her life partner as well. She has both sides of it, and understands all of the parts of whether you are renovating a home, whether you're starting something from scratch, or whether you're just getting your bathroom updated. There are so many elements that she has a fully deep understanding of. But what I also love is that Jenny's tried her hand at lots of other things and she talks about that today.
I love those people that just take action on an idea and don't sit there for years thinking, maybe I could have tried that, I could have done that. And I mean, it even goes like what I was saying about her way that she pitched it was like, there's an idea. I'm going to do it and see how it goes. Instead of saying, there's an idea and I'm going to sit on it, then I'm going to procrastinate, then I'm going to tell myself 10 reasons why it won't work. She just takes action. Here is my interview with the amazing action taker, creative, curious, and wonderful person. Jenny Matek of Studio Jenka.
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Welcome to the podcast. Jenny. How are you feeling about life right now?
It's a little bit of a pinch-me moment, to be honest. Because I'm getting to speak to you like you're a mentor, you don't even realise it. I'm feeling great to answer your question, I am like, I value what you do on the podcast and what you share with people like me. To be here sitting and talking to you is a privilege. I am very grateful. Thank you for having me here. But in general life's good. We're in a good rhythm after the Covid mayhem with work like we're settled down. We seem to have a knock on wood, a good teaming place and everything's tracking along, which is good.
Yes. Tell us a bit about your background and then how did you get started in, and people may have guessed it even just by the little snippet that you just said then with the Covid mayhem that you're in the construction interior design space. Tell us a bit about you and how did you get there?
That's a story and a half. My dad was in construction, dad was a former worker and a builder and did developments and stuff. When I was growing up, I loved like visiting him on job sites or sitting in his office after hours and doing paperwork. I was always drawn to the building industry and that was why I looked up to Dad as well he had his own business, and he had his employees. There was something that just drew me to that area. One thing though was my dad didn't want me to get involved in the business. It's not like I said, Dad, I'm going to come and take over your business. It was not like that, but there was no like girls are meant to be at home.
It was a very traditional upbringing for dads like getting married, having babies, becoming a hairdresser can working from home. That's how you could make money. There wasn't any nurturing when it came to the construction side at all. It was just that I was lucky to be around it. Like with dad's when he was doing his developments on the weekends, we'll go and check them and loved it. I loved being there and seeing it. I was quite creative as a kid I used to love doing arts and crafts stuff. Went through the HSC, sat down with a careers advisor and I said, what do you want to be when you grow up? And I'm like, I don't know, do I need to know right now? Like, this is ridiculous.
They put so much pressure on kids, like if you know what you're going to do with the rest of your life.
I still don’t know. I'm pushing my late forties, and I still don’t know what I want to do in my life. Like, it's too crazy. There was too much pressure and, and like back then the career advisor, I remember the meeting and just feeling anxious and she looked at my marks and said, you're good at maths and you're good at this. She enrolled me in a Bachelor of Applied Science at the University of New South Wales. I hated science at school and I got in because I had the grades. It was an absolute disaster. I had a boyfriend at the time and he was studying architecture, so I spent a lot of time sitting in his suits and lectures.
It was a big university so it was big and stuff. I wasn't there all the time, but a lot of the time. And then I still enjoyed passion design, tried to do that at New South Wales, at UTS, got a transfer over there, I was still doing retail on the side and then was there for three and a half years and then I still need money. I was working in retail and what happened with that was I was doing so well at retail, I'm an overachiever and the company was based in Melbourne and they offered me, the national sales manager rolled down in Melbourne. I got the offer and I was like, this is fantastic. I'm going to go live in Melbourne I'm from Sydney, and I love Melbourne's very European.
I'm like, yes, take me. I deferred uni, and got married. There was like a big lure for that I was there for four or five years. My husband and I bought our first property down there a dump. Again, back part of our, my background was buy something run down and fix it up and you'll make money and that mentality was ingrained in me and we did well with that down in Melbourne. We had a few family issues happen that drove us back to Sydney and we started having kids and I put my career on hold. The reason for that was I just wanted to be around for the kids. And that was just a conscious decision that we did. And we were still buying and selling.
My parents call me Gypsy because we'd buy a place to live in that rent, renovate it, sell it, and move. We were doing that. I was doing that. Had some interior design jobs I started to pick up just from word of mouth and people seeing what I could do. And then some builders started to get wind of what I was doing and what I could do and was doing that. I'd be trying to make money as I fell into a lot of things like I was making cakes for example. I made a big amazing cake for my kids and like those million dollar cakes that you can get and because I'm creative and I enjoyed it and like I was doing like Mario brother cakes and all this stuff and then I fell into that while I had kids at home and we had that business going on and then I one time I was doing the fashion parades and stuff, but anyway I thoroughly enjoyed renos and interior design and what you can create.
I just pushed on with that and as the kids got older, word got around and I got offered an interior design management role with a project home builder. And that was great doing those type of things by doing display homes. It was nice because it was freedom of design and what have you. I didn't have a client that led to operations management at that at at with that builder and managing departments. And that just was crazy working in construction with lots of men and being the only female, like it was nuts. I it was good. I loved it. Money was great but I just wasn't feeling didn't have that spark and love for it. You used to see what the owners were doing and good on them it was their business but they'd get these crazy ideas and go run with it and it's like, let's do it.
How do we do it? Did all that and slowly just realised I needed something more and I thought, well maybe I need to be taken seriously in this male-dominated world. I should get my builder's license. I studied my certificate for and got that for building construction because you need that before you get your builder's license. That took its toll on me, like completely doing that working full-time, kids, husband, the whole thing. It was just too much and I just had to slow down, left that job and went to work for just a local builder part-time while I was finishing the course through design jobs going on in the background. We've just been going, it's just, it's all been by word of mouth and it was enough work for me so it was good. I mean that's where the love for the construction side came from. Just being able to create something and build it and see and be proud of the result. That's how I've gotta this spot.
I love hearing people's journeys because they're so up and down, up and down like I did here, I used to do guest lecturing at RMIT fashion school and sometimes do some guest lectures on and, and at the start, I always had this slide showing my career and it's just like, it's here, but then I did this, but then I went here and then I think they're the best because you have so much knowledge and wealth of information and like also you've got commonalities there. I'm planning my almost five-year-old's birthday party at the moment and we are trying to make a Lego cake. That idea of making cakes for people and what they need and what they want and how beautiful will the event be. It's the same process of building a beautiful space for somebody and like what are they looking for?
What's important to them, what do they want out of this, how do they want to feel in that space? How do they want to feel at the birthday party? I just feel like there are so many common elements of that. Then you and your husband, so auntie came Yes. Into doing AM bathrooms and projects. When did you decide, I mean all of this, you've got a lot of determination, like the fact that you have this incredible background and upbringing, but also to then go study. I'm imagining, and I might be generalising that in that building course, you were one of the only women in there.
I was the only woman.
The only woman. Wow. Then on the building site, I mean they're all pretty. When did you decide to start this company with your partner? And then how did you keep going with the stuff that you wanted to do as well as starting with him?
I never in a million years thought we would be able to walk work together. There was no way. When we were doing our renovations, it was just like the clashing of two very passionate people. It was just like, you are kidding me. No, this is how it's going to be. And then he'll be like from the construct, no, it's going to be like this. And because you're spending your own money as well, you're a little bit more protective of what you're doing and you're thinking, well I don't want to waste my money on that. I want to spend it on this. We did that and I did not believe that we'd be able to work together in a million years. There's no way. How it happened was, and he's an exceptional trade person and business owner as well, like as a sole trader.
He's he supported us for a long time and done exceptionally well. He never had to advertise. He still gets calls today to do tiling jobs and stuff from work he did 20 years ago. When I was doing interior design work, I had a client that was doing a complete home. I was taking care of the whole, project as the interior designer like it was a mom, she was a single mom, she had two daughters, one daughter lived in China, like I still remember them and one daughter lives here and they were just the sweetest people in the world and I'd come up with everything and they said Jenny, can you help us get all the trades and the bathrooms and the kitchen and this and that? And I went to the only person I trusted to do the job his Aren, like I know that he has got the same respect for clients.
I'm not saying that other people don't, but just for me, he has the same passion for delivering a high-end product respects the client and will go above and beyond if anything to his detriment, he goes probably way too far over above and beyond. I say to him, we ate white rice for many years because you do all this extra work for clients and we could feed ourselves you just don't want to charge them. We can't work. I just knew he would look after them as much as had the same passion as I did. That's how it started. We did that job, the client was so super happy. I mean in the end, we've done all the family's homes, like we've done three homes now and they recommend this to people and they were just so happy and grateful and I think that with auntie and because we're representing the client each in our different, I'm the designer and he's the builder and we both respect the client.
I think because we've got that background of we know how it hurts to spend money on renovations and not understand where it goes. That is a cost. And you've got a budget for it and you see an end goal and I think that he understands it as a tradie, like the level of quality he wants to provide and, and I've got a finished idea of what I want it to be and we both just respected each other because we were both representing the clients at that point and the client would be there. We were able to talk to each other nicely. There wasn't yelling involved. That's how that worked. And I mean, he was a tile waterproofer and he was getting him, he was an in bathrooms at the time, it was just starting and he was having so many issues trying to do that like people would be coming and supplying their staff or things weren't coming to the site, the correct toilet was wrongly ordered and all this stuff.
He was having all these headaches and he saw how easy it was when things were sorted for him and he could just go in there, do the job, do it to his high level and leave. And there were no headaches like there was nothing like the client didn't order enough tiles. We started working so I thought, why don't we do a bit of a design and build combination? I was still doing interior design jobs on the side, but with him it was like, you've got some bathrooms, how about we sell it as a team? You get the design and then you get the build and that's how it became AM Bathrooms and Projects. We're tricky with our name. AM is my husband’s Nickname.
He used to be AM tiling and then it was AM bathrooms and now it's AM Bathrooms and Projects. And the reason we kept the name was purely because of the following he had within the industry and it's worked like there's no issues with that. And then with my company, I just very uninspiring was Jenny Matek's design because I just needed an ABN when I was doing my interior design work. I've only changed that in the last year to Studio Jenka. And the reason I've done that is because I've got a team now. I've got a few people that work for me. I don't want it just to be my face. Anyway, look back to your question. That's how AM Bathrooms and Projects started and it's a well-oiled machine now, which is good.
I love that you brought up earlier about your dad and I wish that I had that upbringing. I mean I had a great upbringing, great upbringing, but my parents were very different and had that whole like, you have one house, you pay your house off, that's it. They'd never invested in it. My brother recently told me, 'cause we used to go to the same house every single summer in Philipp Island and I love Philipp Island. We take our kids there and there's this one house and I always drive past 'cause it just brings up all the memories of my childhood. And my brother told me recently Mom and Dad could have bought that they got offered that house for 50,000 no back in the eighties or nineties. He is like, they could have afforded it at the time, but they would've thought that's a risk because they wouldn't have known And they also weren't from Australia.
They just didn't know both of their parents had one house. And I think like I'm always talking to my children now about financial literacy and investing and because that idea that you have of like, you buy a house early, you upgrade it, you you do this, then you do it again, then you do it again, then you do it again. Even though your dad was like from a very traditional gender norm, you should get this job and be stay at home with the kids and all of that. Was your mom super creative or was it purely like, I saw my dad and I saw what he could transform and what he could make. Then that was where all your creativity from cake making and the fashion and the retail and all of that. Where did that come from?
Definitely wasn't from my mom, she's amazing. She kept the family together. She was home and she loved cooking and gardening and things like that.
Which are all creative things. Super creative.
Absolutely. She's very good at it. That didn't rub off on me any of that. But I think craft-wise, like I think like I said, just visiting dad's job sites and seeing architectural plans and seeing how something can be created from that piece of paper. Even like I remember visiting my godmother she was a manic knitter. She was always knitting, and it was like, what are you doing? It's just that something can come from nothing like that would always just excited me. No matter what it was like even with mom would be in the kitchen making pasta and I'm like, this is so cool. That you can create something. That was where I used to find something to enjoy when I was growing up with what can be created. I did like sewing things and I think I got one cabbage patch doll once and mom was throwing out some clothes and I cut it down and made a new outfit and like things like that. I just enjoyed that stuff. Even like with Dad, I remember sitting there and doing pays with him and he had this process of how he had the yellow envelopes.
I remember I used to work at Kohl's as a checkout chick 14 years. And you got your yellow envelope with the cash inside it. Yes. I remember.
Yes, Dad had like preach to employees at one point or whatever it was and write everyone's name. I'm like, how about we get one of those, like the electric typewriters with the back, then were coming out with the little sticky things and I'm like, look, we could just print them and I don't have to write them out ever again. just print their names and it's done. My mind was always just ticking, how can we do things differently? That was my upbringing. It was great. But with dad, I did feel closed off from opportunities. He never said, I used to look up to dad because he did have the business and I saw him managing people and I was drawn to that. I think that deterred me from doing my own thing. He just never gave me the confidence to go out there and do it. Which I think he'll be back a little bit. I love my dad, I'm so proud of my dad and he retired at 50, did everything he said his goals to it's amazing. I just think that my confidence, I just didn't have that as a kid to go out there.
I think it's just the gen, I don't know how old your parents are, but it's a different generation. My parents, I remember when I said to my mom, I'm going to leave my head of marketing role at MIMCO and start my business. She was like, what? You just bought a house, you have a child, what are you doing? But then before she died, her last email to me was, here's a book called The Hundred Dollars Entrepreneur. I saw it at the library. She was on board at the end, but they didn't go after that. They didn't see a role model. Anyone that they might have seen was like, just get a job, get a proper job, all of that. Taking it back to what you guys do, and obviously, you have this huge extensive amount of experience, but I would also imagine that the onslaught of like the block and all of these TV shows that make anyone think I can renovate a whole house, I can do this with no experience. My husband and I, the first house or the second house we were going to bid on, it was a complete gut job. And thank God we didn't get it because we would've divorced. We had no idea. But I'd bought some of those shows and I was like, this cat we could do this. We absolutely couldn't. And the people that bought it took six years to renovate it and they were builders as well.
I was like, they know what they're doing and look how long this has taken. Because I still walk past that house all the time on my walks and I'm like, glad we didn't get it. But there is a saturation, a massive saturation in the marketplace. I feel like even in the time I've been running this business for nine years, I work with a lot of interior designers and architects and landscape architects and that has just grown the amount of people that starting interior design. A lot of people I feel like, or I know take maternity leave and then don't want to go back to that job and then think interior design might be the way forward. How do you deal with competition because you have such incredible extensive experience, but there are just new people coming into the market constantly?
I look there is, but I don't pay attention to it. I think that I've been doing this for so long like it's been 20 years that I've been in the industry and working what I'm doing. I've never been one of those people that needs my name in lights. People say you and Auntie need to go on the block. I said I'd kill someone in two minutes flat. There's no way that we're going on the block. It's, it's just fake. Like it's not real, right? It's not real life and it's not what we're about. I guess I haven't worried about it. I think one thing there is too much out there, I'm not going to lie. There's all these courses that you can do this course, and you're an interior designer and you can do this and all it is is just copying and not making things work.
I hear it from other builders and these people that have got millions of followers and because it's an industry I talk to people all the time. I'm on the HIA bathrooms committee you hear things and there are a lot of people that are coming through and good on them. If they want to give something a go, but they're not technical, you know? There's so many issues that happen on site and they'll draw something, but a constructively you can't build it or they don't look at the cost or whatever. And I think they're very green and I wish them all the best. Like there's no issues in that. But I know my sister, she's a successful interior designer and you're sometimes like, we'll just laugh and go, how the hell does that person have 80,000 followers on Instagram?
We'll know off the grapevine that they've only done one job that year and they'll be using other people's photos and all that stuff. When I look at that I think, am I an imposter? And I'm like, no, I'm good at what I do. I listen to my clients, I just stay in my lane and I know what I do. I know what I do well and it's all about delivering like for my clients. I try not to get bogged down by Instagram and seeing all these people coming through and because it's easy I sit there and go, I'm an imposter. I'm not an interior designer. What is an interior designer? Just 'cause you have a piece of paper, like I've just recently went through an interviewing process and I interviewed baby, I'm going to say I probably interviewed about, I'm going to say 12 to 15 people for a role.
Honest to God, like these people come out of courses and they're junior, like, it's crazy. They think they're designers because they've come out of these colleges and they say, you're now an interior. No. And it all comes down to if you want it. And the girls I do have working with me at the moment, they know that they've gotta grow and they know that they've have skills, but they know that what they're going to learn with me, not on the job. We are learning every day. I'm learning every day. They teach me stuff every day. But I just stay in my lane and I've got my vision. I've just helping my clients and I worry about them. I worry about what their needs are. They're all different. They all have different budgets, and they all have different needs. And I like, I go, does that bring you joy? Like this has to bring you joy. This is your home. It's your space. I work hard at that. Back to your question, I don't worry about it. I think that people will work that out and I think when they meet you they see what value I have and what we do and how we do it, like they appreciate it. We just keep pushing for that.
I love that you said the length of, I guess the energy. I'm always saying to my son, you've got 24 hours of energy in the day. How do you want to spend it? You didn't say this directly, but I took this that instead of worrying about my competition or so-called competition, I'm going to worry about what my clients want and what they need. Because that's a better use of my energy. With renovations, I'm interested in this because we were about to renovate the house and we spent about 18 months with an architecture firm. It was frustrating, I have to say. It was a frustrating experience. It was fun, it was exciting for a little bit and then it wasn't so exciting. And my good friend who had also gone through a renovation, said to me, this is the exciting part.
This is the part that's the most exciting. If you're not excited now it's going to be a world of hell when it starts. And then my mortgage broker was like have a look around. We were like, we had to look around and anyway, we looked around and then this house just happened to be, they slashed the prices, it was people divorcing and it was just, it all worked out for us. But with the renovation, and I have to say a chunk of that frustration was because where we live is a very high bushfire zone area. But there's very little you can build. We had a very lovely log cabin character home and it was like, you can't use wood, you can't use this, you can't use that. I was like, okay. This whole idea that we had is just not going to happen. We also even when I've said that, it wasn't a horror story, but you do hear a lot of horror stories and people like to say horror stories about every industry. But if anyone's reading with your extensive experience, what advice would you give to ensure they get the best value and experience from a renovation or fixing their house up in some way?
I think that the biggest thing is what I see every day and what frustrates me, and it hurts me and it pains me when I get clients. I've had a client that I quoted a project the other week here in Bau Main. I had these amazing architectural plans made up for the home, all DA approved, got it approved, went and got it quoted by builders. It's three times over her limits for a budget, three times. And I went, at no point did that architect say, this is what the, I go, did you speak to the client about your budget? Like, did you? And they said, not. And I'm like, this is the biggest mistake I see all the time is budget. Like, things are so expensive. Again, after Covid, things have tripled in price.
If you want stuff, good quality stuff that's what I used to say was the normal mid-range product. It's costing you double like wardrobes or anything. But just the build costs alone have gone up. I feel for people like that and that breaks my heart. It all depends if you're doing a design and build, you should be working with somebody who has the experience of knowing how much projects cost, how much things cost, and what's important to you. I always start with all my clients. I don't go and see everybody. We charge for quotes. We're not here to sit and say, you're the cheapest person on the block, let's just go with you. Our service is different. What we try to do is make sure the client understands what they want to do and what it's going to cost them.
We don't like variations. For us it's like, worst case scenario, this is going to cost you this much, this is going to cost you this much, whatever. But then they see things in the design process and how it adds up in how it can go down. I might spend more on something, but I'll say, you know what, don't go and spend $2,000 on a tap. I said let's spend 300 and spend the money on this. This is what this is going to give you. You need to have somebody that is working for you and your needs. That's the biggest thing, right? If you can't find a design and construction person in a company, you've got a builder maybe that you've been recommended or heard of, that's great. Speak to them and say, look, this is what we are thinking of doing.
I feel you need to have one, it depends if you're doing a whole home or whatever it is, but if you've got an interior designer, they're going to think about the space and how it's going to work for you. There might be other opportunities that you can't see and you might be just spending a little bit more, but you're going to gain so much more. There was a client who wanted to convert a bedroom, a big bedroom, like a four-meter bike, four and a half meter bedroom into a bathroom because she needed another bathroom in the house. I'm like, why do you want a bathroom so deep? It's gigantic. Why? Maybe she wants a runway into the why. Crazy. I'm like, what need this? What going to do? Like, swing a cat crazy so big. And as I walked through the house, I saw like, she was in this beautiful terrace and I'm like, she was working from home that day and she was working in the kitchen.
I'm like, do you have a dedicated office space? She said, no, like I work from the kitchen. I'm like, well how about we cut this room in half and create a study? Hang on a second. How about we do this wall? What's on that wall? That's your bedroom. How about we make an en suite for you and a study and a walk around? That's the value you get from a good interior designer is that like they're thinking outside the box and making the money that you because she would've spent like a good 60,000 on that purely because of the size because it was so, so many needed. But now she's going to get much more value out of this renovation and this one bedroom than she would've previously. She goes take my money where, how do I sign up?
Because I'd never thought of that. That's the value that you get from weekly designers. Then if you have a designer talk to them about who do you work with. Do you have a good builder that you work with? Because at the end of the day, that designer's going to walk you through the build and represent you. I've got clients that will send me, we might know a builder that can do it for you. But like my other interior design jobs, I've got a client that was building and they're going, Jenny, we're just so overwhelmed. All these builders are coming and promising us the world. What do we do? And I said, send me their quotes. Send me their quotes. I had a look at them and I'm like, well this guy hasn't charged you for this. This guy's charging you for this.
You don't need this. You've got this, this guy should be fixing this. And then when it came down to the fine-tuning, I met them on-site. And that's a massive relationship that needs to work is your designer and your builder. And then that way it's just so much easier. It's less dramatic, there's less stress. It's just if these two people can work like they're going to look after your best interest. It's hard, it's a saturation out there in the market and now it's difficult 'cause people are starting to look for work. They're dropping their prices and then the quality of workmanship is not there either. Many things you don't see in a room, say a kitchen or a bathroom, it's in the bones of it that you're spending your money, not just what you see and touch.
You just have to talk to the people and you're going to have to deal a lot with them. But having as much before you start the renovations and having as much priced up before you start the renovation is definitely to your benefit. When we do quotes, like if I go to a project and, and I'll say, look, if your floor's rotted, I'll put a note in our project proposal saying look, if we need to replace the floor because it doesn't meet Australian standard, that's going to cost you X amount. I don't like surprises because they make angry people. I've been there, I've done renovations and I know how people rip people off and we don't like that. We just want calm people we want to work with. We want you to be happy and like, we found asbestos, but what's going to cost you this much? That's where we push our projects and our clients. We want to work with happy people who've as much information from the beginning that they're happier at the end.
On this, which this is all such great advice and the whole money situation, very interesting when the people we worked with who are lovely, you're lovely people, but they were like, that's a great budget. Yep. We're going to be able to do everything. And then as we kept going through it was, your budget's not that big. And the whole language changed and it was like, you sold us this anyway, they're lovely people, they're great at what they do. I think they were just used to working with people with millions and millions of dollars to spend money.
In terms of the systems and processes, because I work with people all the time on systems and the processes, I also found that interesting with our experience in terms of like, I wanted to say, and I do this all the time with lots of companies, I'm like feel like saying Ps your systems could be a little bit better. Could you work with me on this, what do you do in terms of like, because you're juggling a lot? You've got the AM projects and bathrooms, you've got your own business, you've got just family life. What tech tools or anything like that have helped the business in terms of all your clients and all the different projects that sometimes can take a lot of years?
It's not easy. We started the business from scratch. I'd come from a large company that had, they spent money on dealing with project management programs and we didn't have that that everything that we were doing was coming from our back pocket. We had to be clever and we had to plan things well. I am quite an organized person, so I like checklists and for me invaluable is my Google Sheets. I have a Google Sheets that links things to everything. Like it will link me to the next step. I know it's not high-tech, but for us, it's enough.
I love Google Sheets.
It's amazing. And just like even just a sales process, we've got that simplified in there and what happens if this happens? Click on this link and that'll take you to that script. And then that script and it, and if we need to send an email, there's an email script that you can just modify and it's got the attachments linked in there, videos or whatever. That's been invaluable, like having that set up, understanding the process of trying I'm always trying to make it as easy for the kind as possible. That is my biggest thing. I know that they're time for me, and I know that as wonderful as I am, they don't want to sit there and have a quick chat with me. Because they're busy. And half the time you are trying to work during the day.
If you know you're working and then you've got the kids and then even your family life and all that you're juggling. You don't have time to sit there and focus. I'll tend to do a little video with something that I've created or the next step or what's happening, and I'll shoot that across to them and just say, “Hey guys, watch this.” This is what I'm thinking. This is the next step, or whatever it is. I do use that quite a bit. And I find that I get a lot of positive and people can comment on that as well, so they can send me their feedback as well. And that's been invaluable as well. Google Sheets is my lifesaver I've got my cashflow in there. I've got every sheet for everything. And it's just so easy. It's so easy.
I love this. Even as you're talking, I'm like, I am not trying to bag out at all the people that we worked with. They were amazing. But even some of this, when you're saying it because some of the meetings were like two and a half hours, my husband would come say 45 Minutes. And then I'd be like, this is cutting into my work time. I could be recording a podcast or I could be doing something else. On that note, the video is how I learned more about you because he pitched with a video. I was saying to you before we hit record, and I'll probably mention it in the intro, your pitch to come on the podcast was amazing. Honestly, I was like, I wish everyone pitched like this. Interestingly, you said a lot of information in a short amount of time. It was not just copy and paste. It was just great. It also gave me a bit, a bit of your vibe and who you are and how you talk and just everything. Video, you're comfortable with because you are doing it all the time for clients.
Not really. I don't watch it.
But as in you look comfortable, you look comfortable doing it. I saw that was on Loom, but what other marketing has helped the brand or different businesses now gain awareness over the years? And also, which channels did you decide to pursue? Were you just like, we are visual so we have to be on Instagram? Or how did you decide that and how do you stand out?
I think we are visual. I think that's the whole thing about interior designers everyone's pinning Pinterest and saving photos and coming back to it. We needed to build on our visuals. At the time, we were just taking photos with our iPhone and we went down the route of Instagram purely because I enjoyed it and I saw us following other people and seeing what they were doing. But one big thing was we had to invest in getting professional photography for all our projects. And the reason why we needed to do that was because we are a professional company. That's the way we're represented. You've gotta see our work. We are a proper company. We're not just looking after you and you'll get professional workmanship at the end of the role. We took professional photos. Instagram has been great. We've got quite a bit of work from Instagram. Most of our weeks from word of mouth or recommendations, Google reviews are pretty big for us as well. And we spent a bit of time getting our website up and running as well. Twitter, I just can't get my head around that. And then this is another job role.
It is. I always say to people, like I feel like I say this 50 times a week, but I'm always saying to clients, you're not a media company. I don't think I work with any media. There's one that could be a media company, but the rest, it's like you have a job, so don't feel like you have to compete with like That's right. An actual media company of getting seven pieces of content out a day. And this meant like, you have to figure out what's our always-on content and then how can we consistently show up? And if the consistency is a quarterly email, then make it a quarterly email until you can get that perfect and then go to maybe once every two months and then once every month. But I hear you on that point.
It's tough and you juggle so much and you've gotta see what's your priority and, and what you want to get out. And look, we've been lucky enough to have work, so let's keep our clients happy and just keep moving forward. And my daughter studies business at university now and she's got quite a bit of time that she can come in and get involved and she's learning a little bit about the marketing side as well. That's been fun as well. But it's a whole other job.
It is. You can sometimes go down that path and it doesn't return anything for you and on that what has helped you? And I love that full circle when you talked about your dad and you and being in the business or perhaps not being in the business as much and now you've got your daughter and you're fully opening the doors for her to come in and be part of it. What else has helped you with the business? What are your favourite books, courses, tools or anything that has helped you or even mentors? Have you had any mentors or do you have a quote that you'll look at and be like, that's what gets me going every morning? What motivates you?
What motivates? I think my head just spitting all the time with everything that needs to be done. I've just always as long as I can remember since I was a little girl, put a smile on my face. Just put a smile on your smile. You have a beautiful smile by the way. Everything's fine. It's just my motto, life is everything's fine. If it was easy everybody would do it. It's not that bad. Nothing's bad. I get motivated when I listen to podcasts like, I love your podcast. I already said that to you. I love your quick, your quick ones. I love your long ones, your interviews, your people. And the reason why I enjoy that so much is understanding that I'm not alone. Everybody has issues and it's not meant to be easy and it's not a problem. It's not the end of the world. There are solutions out there. And just pulling back, I think one thing, one book I did read quite a few years ago was The Magic of Thinking Big.
Yes. Is that by Tara Moore?
David Schwartz.
Okay. There's another one about, which is by Tara Moore, but David Schwartz. We're going to link to the notes.
That one. It's a real one, I got one when I read it, I bought one for all my family. I bought each book and I put a little card in there for my kids and I said, you need this in your life. I wish someone had given this to me at your age. Just in general, I just want you to have it. You might not be ready right now, but you have the power to change your life and do whatever you want. Your world is your oyster. That confidence, I just want, that's the biggest thing I want to give to my kids. And also for me like I need, sometimes you just think, am I good enough? Am like this like you always have, I have doubts. It's just the way and I think that's just where I try to push myself to get better.
I was introduced to a business coach when I worked for that small builder after I finished up that big role. The HIA, which is a housing industry association of Australia, were running courses for their members. They just handpicked a few people and they did group coaching. And we were one of those businesses and there were 12 of us. We met once a month, I think for six months. And it was great. It was like you're talking to people and networking with people every month there was a topic and you could pick up something from it. I had that experience there and that was invaluable. Unfortunately, didn't work with the bills that I was working with at the time, but it helped me and helped. And when my husband and I started working together, I said like, this has gotta change.
I think I've come from this corporate background the way I work and the way you work are very different. We both want the same thing. And we were clashing like, and it was just like, this is just horrible. We had an office at home, we had no break. It was crazy. Something had to give. And I said, I'm going to find that business coach and I'm going to call her and we're going to just do it. He's like, why are we going to do that for? And I'm like, why do people have a personal trainer for like, it's the same thing. We need somebody just to be there and stop and think about things. Everything you do for me on my walks like that. You just need to stop and just stop.
Because you are racing, you're racing. We were lucky to meet Kaf and she's continued with us I call her our marriage counsellor because she can sometimes just like pull us both in line and reset. I think that's the biggest thing. And just setting goals, like making sure you've got goals for your business and yourself. And you know what, it's the middle of the year already. Where is the time going? It's like, have I done what I need to do? Like what, what was I wanting to do? Resetting is huge. I think it comes down to thinking about your goals and just putting them out there and learning from businesses. I'm learning from people's stories. I think it's great. We're so lucky. This generation is so lucky to have that info wealth of information out there and, and access to it. It's great. I sit there and turn you on and I'm like, this is free, this is great. I'm hearing about Fiona and her life and everybody else that like it's just, I invaluable stuff. Like it's great. Very inspiring. Thank You.
I completely agree with the topic of access to education. It's just huge. I wonder sometimes, 'cause I used to work in a fashion magazine. I often, and one of my best friends, was the first person I hired there, he was the art director. And we often say, imagine if social media was around then. Because it wasn't. I mean I'm also glad it wasn't 'cause things were not documented that I wouldn't want out there in the world. But it's just, it's completely allowed people to see what's possible and to, and to DM people and be like, how did you do it? Tell me about it. Or can I ask a few questions? If you could go back and give your younger self one piece of advice, what would it be? Also any advice to people who are just starting?
Be confident and don't ever think things, just do it. I think that the biggest thing I've learned from my career is, and the people that I've seen have been successful, they're risk takers. And you just need to be confident in what you truly believe you want to do and can do. Whether it's a service or building something or whatever it is. You can do it. And if you can't, you just go to go and be a checkout chick. I always say that I'm just going to go back and be a checkout chick. I don't care. But if you don't try it, you don't know. And I think stop worrying. I wish I said stop worrying. Don't worry about things that could happen. Just do it. The reason like that it took me a while to hire staff and that was because I was like, how much is that going to cost?
But I had a hole in the business where I wasn't getting back to clients and I'm letting people down. I need to just do it. Rip the bandaid off and I wish I had done it earlier. It's given me free time. I think that's the biggest thing. Be confident and just give it a go. Like you've just gotta just do it. Just stop overthinking it. That was my biggest mistake. I wish I didn't overthink things and worry about what could be, there's no point in worrying until it happens.
Exactly. I could not agree more. And then lastly, what are you most proud of from your time in business and businesses to date?
I think it's just that our service is recognized. Last year we won the national award for business management with the HIA, that's the whole of Australia. That was ridiculous. The amount of the was huge and it was a pinch moment. I'm like, I just stopped for a minute and I thought, how lucky are we? We've got amazing staff, we've got amazing trades we work with. They all believe what we believe. They all want to do the same. We've got the same vision and same goals and the freedom of having our own business and our name on the door. That's crazy. I didn't know that that was possible. Just being able to run your show, not having to answer to anyone because you have a clear vision.
That's been a real game-changer. I'm so proud that we can do what we do as a family, like my husband and I like that we can do it together and sometimes we say we should have started earlier, but we weren't ready earlier. There just wasn't the right timing. I think timing's everything. Very grateful that we've been able to deliver on what we set out to do and our clients keep coming back to us and we don't have to sit there and do hard sell. I think I mentioned earlier, that I charge for quotes because we care. I care when I go and do a quote for somebody, I'm not going to sit there and not care and give you a rough price. We do spend time with our clients and value them and they value us back. And like, they'll quote me and say, Jenny, this brings me joy. You have no idea. I'm going to say, did this bring you joy? I think that what I'm most proud of is that our clients appreciate us and what we do for them and that we are industry-recognized. Very lucky.
Amazing. Thank you so much for taking time out of your busy schedule to chat and for listening to the podcast on your walk. I can't wait for the time to listen to this when you're on your walk.
I don’t know if I can.
You have to listen to your podcast and also we edit them and you'll love it and you'll be like, we always get people emailing saying, I listened. I sound so smart. Yes, because you're smart. How can people connect with you if they're reading and thinking, I want to learn more about it. Where's the best place?
Everyone's on Instagram these days, so we're AM Bathrooms and Projects or Studio Jenka, otherwise you just Google us or go to our website. We've got websites for both of them and reach out and I'm in the background managing all that, so I'll be happy to answer any questions or link with people networking so important. I'd love to network more with people. That's a goal of mine. But so definitely feel free to reach out.
Thank you. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
Thanks, Fiona.
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Such a lovely chat with Jenny. I'm going to highlight two things as I always do. That stood out for me. But I'd love to know what stood out for you and I'm sure Jenny would as well. You can connect with Jenny via Instagram @Studio_Jenka. You can also find them at studiojenka.com.au. We'll also link to that and AM Bathrooms and Projects on the show notes for this, which you can find at mydailybusiness.com/podcast/452. You can also send me an idea of what you loved from this @mydailybusiness_ on Instagram or @mydailybusiness on TikTok. The two things that stood out amongst so many other things in this chat. The first is when Jenny talked about staying in her lane and that if she's going to worry about something, she's worrying about her client, she's worrying about what do they want, what are they going to get.
How can we make this the best possible project for them? She's not spending time worrying about competitors or worrying about what other people are doing in their business. I love that she made that point because interior design, I work with a lot of people in interior design and it can feel particularly from people within that industry that it's saturated. It can feel like everyone is becoming an interior designer. Everyone is an interior designer and that can feel like that in every industry that you're in. I know, hello business coaches, there's like 20 million gazillion business coaches out there. Sometimes you can get sidetracked and you can look sideways and think, what are they doing? Or maybe I should be doing that, or they just launched this, or they're doing that on their Instagram, or they did that in their newsletter.
Instead, just take that energy and put it into something that is within your control, which is how can you do the best possible job that you can do for your clients. As Jenny said, she's worked with some families who then have gone on and referred her to everyone else in their family and that brings in more work. But it's also a better use of your time than getting into that compare and despair that so many people can spend a lot of their time and energy on. I love that she just talked about, how I stay in my lane and if I'm going to worry about anything, what I'm worrying about is how can I do the best possible job rather than worrying about what somebody I don't even know social media is doing the second thing. There are lots of things in there, but the second thing that I loved is that Jenny talked about being able to use all of her experience and knowledge to help people.
She talked about that example of the person who had this very large room that they were thinking could be this bedroom, but then they didn't have a study. And I think this just goes to that point of sometimes you think that you can do things or that you can, let's say you have an idea of how you're going to design your home or let's say in business, I can figure out my finances. I don't need to hire A CFO or I probably can get by with this. I don't need to go and see a lawyer or I don't need to, until you realise when you do employ that person, whether they're just a one-off ad hoc project fee, or if you're going to get somebody full-time into your business, you realize, my goodness, the experience that they can bring because they're going to see things that they have seen a million times before and they're going to catch them so much quicker than you.
I love when Jenny talked about that with that client and they were like, yes, that's a great way to use this space. And they wouldn't have been able to get there without somebody with Jenny's expertise to guide them. And I think so often in business we can be very reluctant to spend money on somebody because we think, oh no, that's taking away from my bottom line instead of thinking, how much more am I going to grow as a business if that person's experience is brought into my business. Whether, as I said, it's somebody in the finance place. I know that I've raved about my accountant's MJA accounting, I don't get a kickback, but I've referenced and referred so many people to them, they have just been so different to work with than any other accountant I previously employed.
It's like I, I don't know what I don't know. To work with somebody who, that is their skillset, that is what they're doing day in, day out. It's incredible. I know I've done that as well with graphic designers, and with other people that I've employed along the way in my business where I've gone, their knowledge base is incredible. And yes, I can try and keep faffing about and doing it myself for the next few months instead of just paying somebody for a few hours and they get it done. Every time that I have employed somebody, let's say 90% of the time that I've employed somebody or paid somebody to do something, I have never regretted it. I have been like, that was such a good use and I wish that I had just employed them sooner. And I hear that all the time from people.
Even as a business coach, so often I will look at something with a client and I'm like, have you thought about this or that? And they're like, that that seems obvious. But no, I've never thought about that and I've been sitting on this project or sitting on this question or sitting on this for months or even years sometimes. And it's like, yes. Sometimes you just need to have somebody who's not related to the business come in and have a look at something. And that could be graphic design, it could be website design, it could be e-commerce specialist, it could be someone who's going to help you with your systems in the backend. It could be all sorts of things. But I love it when Jenny talked about that because I've had that experience with people where they've said something and you think, yes, of course.
Why didn't I see that? And you don't see it because you don't have the skills and experience and knowledge that these people do that are bringing things into whether it's your business or your renovation or anything else. I love that she talked about that because I think it's an important lesson. If you are designing a home, but also in terms of business, like thinking about where are you getting stuck right now and whether is it worth potentially getting somebody else into the business, whether they're a Google ad specialist or somebody else that can go, this is going to take me a much shorter amount of time to get to the solution than you trying to do this all by yourself.
I get it, it can be incredibly hard to part with money, but sometimes you want to think about the long-term cost of not employing somebody versus which is you and your stress and you're overwhelmed and spending time after time on a project or a problem that you don't necessarily know the solution to. Because You just don't have those skills and experience versus paying somebody who can come in and do that for you. Those are the two things that stood out to me. As I said, you can connect with Studio Jenka and jenny@studiojenka.com.au or Studio Jenka on social media. We'll link to all of that. Plus anything else that we mention today in the show notes, which you can find for this episode at mydailybusiness.com/podcast/452. Thanks so much for reading and I'll see you next time. Bye.
