Episode 256: Being clear and transparent with your customers and looking into our own heritage with Sumana Jayanth of Damn Gina
How has your upbringing influenced your life now? In today's episode, Fiona talks to Sumana Jayanth of Damn Gina about so many tips and insights from tech tools to battling self-awareness and self-worth kind of issues. Tune in!
Topics discussed in this episode:
Introduction
Before Damn Gina was founded
About Damn Gina
On Marketing and branding
On transparency
Moving into Australia
From an idea to a full-time business
On niching down
Tech apps, tools, and resources
Conclusion
Get in touch with My Daily Business Coach
Resources and Recommendations mentioned in this episode:
Lots of founders, especially women founders. We have this whole idea of we don't want to be in the spotlight, we don't want to show our faces, our personalities, or talk about ourselves. As you said, it's almost like you don't want to associate yourself with the brand in the public in any way. Because what if I do one thing wrong and it affects the business? Or am I even worthy of this kind of attention? Or should I even be there? There are a lot of things that have gone into our minds.
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Welcome to episode 256 of the My Daily Business Coach podcast. Today it is an interview with a small business owner, and it is somebody who is in the eCommerce space. I know that so many people in the eCommerce space in retail, whether you've got bricks and mortar or an eCommerce or both, are really under the pump right now. And literally this week, next week, we're going to have the crazy sort of busy season of sales. You've got Black Friday, and Cyber Monday, whether you're taking part in those or not. And then we move into the really hectic part of gifting season. I thought today that I would move up one of our interviews that was going to be scheduled a little bit later on in the year, move it up so that we can share the insights and wisdom from today's wonderful guests before we get stuck into that.
Two things. One, I want to acknowledge the traditional owners and custodians of the beautiful lands in which I record this podcast. And that is the Wurrung and Wurundjeri people of the Kulin nation. And I pay my respects to their elders past, present, and emerging. Acknowledge that sovereignty has never been ceded. And also acknowledge that we all have a role to play in making sure that there's not only equality but equity for our First Nations people. And I welcome any other Aboriginal Torres Strait Islander or other indigenous people who might be listening in to today's podcast. The second thing is, as I mentioned it is going into the gifting season.
Whether you are looking for end-of-year gifts, we made it through 2022 gifts, or a Christmas gift, a Hanukkah gift. Just a gift for saying, “I love you” to somebody. If you have people in the small business world who listen to this podcast or maybe they would like to work with us at some point, we do have a range of offers over at the My Daily Business Coach Shop. You can find that mydailybusinesscoach.com/shop. In there. We'll have courses, there are eBooks, there are coaching sessions, and we also have gift vouchers if you don't know exactly what to get somebody. We'll link to that in the show notes. But let's get on to today's interview.
Today I'm bringing you an interview that I conducted literally a couple of days ago. We usually have people record an interview with me and we usually work about four weeks out, however, sometimes even longer, sometimes eight weeks, sometimes. We've interviewed people that will not actually be on the podcast until February next year. But I was talking to this wonderful guest who I'm about to introduce and I know that they are literally launching a big sale this week and doing a lot of other exciting things. I just can't wait to see all the things that come out of this brand in the years to come. We thought we would bring this interview forward and put it out today. My guest today is Sumana Jayanth, who is so full of insights and tips, and ideas. Sumana is the founder of Damn Gina, and if you are somebody with curly hair, you may well be aware of it.
Damn Gina is a brand that has really kind of blown up since it launched in 2019. So just before the pandemic hit, Sumana and I actually connected years ago. She came to see a talk that I was doing for Shopify. And it's interesting because I wasn't aware of the fact that she had come until I bought some of her hair oil for my niece who has curly hair. And I bought it and got it sent in the mail. I got this lovely handwritten note from her saying “Hi, I really hope you enjoy this.” I actually saw you speak at the Shopify talk in 2017 and it was so good and just a lovely, lovely note and I was like, “Okay.” I had no idea who was behind the brand. I had just seen a lot of good reviews of this hair oil for curly hair.
I thought I'll get it for my niece. She's a teenager, it's very exciting. The packaging is beautiful according to my niece, it works incredibly well. And then Sumana and I would message and I said, “You have to come onto the podcast.” Because I think the story of how she got to create this brand and the fact that it's not her first business and just her attitude, she's hilarious. She's really intelligent, she's got lots of ideas and she's actually implementing those as well. I had to get her onto the podcast and in this podcast, we talk about all sorts of things. Sumana is originally from India, She studied even Singapore, she's now called Melbourne home. We talked about why did she want to come to Australia and how has she been influenced by her Indian heritage, particularly in relation to hair products and hair care in the business.
How did she bring that in or has she brought that in? We also talk about things like figurehead marketing and how hard it can be to get out of your own way and put yourself out there as the founder of a brand. We also talk about branding, like how did she come up with the name Damn Gina, How has she come up with this, just on point for its audience brand that is doing so well in a very competitive landscape, Damn Gina has also been used by a bunch of like big names influences and used by so many other people as well. I mean, the reviews are massive for the product. It's obvious that Sumana is so passionate about what she is doing and she not only wants to create an incredible product but also create an incredible brand that supports and grows with its audience.
It was my absolute pleasure to ask Sumana for the podcast. I know that so many people will find so many tips and insights from tech tools through to battling self-awareness and self-worth kind of issues. We go through all of that today. Sumana is also a new mum, I have to say thank you for her taking time out of her incredibly busy schedule with a 10-month-old and a business that is in the middle of a sale period retail, anyone in retail at the moment going through it. Thank you Sumana for coming on the podcast and here is my interview with Sumana Jayanth, the founder of Damn Gina.
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Hello Sumana. How are you feeling about life right now?
Hi Fiona, it's so lovely to finally speak to you actually, it's quite chaotic at the moment. It’s November, which means our biggest sale season of the year and tomorrow is the third birthday of our brand Damn Gina. We are really in the middle of setting up all the emails, and sale campaigns and I'm a new mom, I've got a 10-month-old so it's full of energy running around and all chaotic but also fun.
Thank you for making time to chat with me. I love how you used the word energy when you're like, it's full of energy. I think that's great.
I got to keep up with her because she is on the move, it's just like we both are running around. I know who's chasing home, but we are just running around the whole day. That's pretty much what's happening.
I'm so excited. I talked a bit about Damn Gina and how we connected in the intro, but can you talk us through your experience in business as a whole? Because the business that we are going to discuss today isn't actually your first business. I just wanted to know kind of how did you get into business in general and what were you doing before Damn Gina?
Sure, this is definitely not my first business. I was a marketing manager for a Canadian fashion brand when I first came to Australia. That was my job, and so was my degree. My degree was an advanced diploma in PR and marketing and I did that in Singapore. I kind of went in the same line applied for jobs in marketing and I got into this fashion house. But prior to that, along with that job, I also had this side hustle, handmade jewelry, and accessories. These jewelry and accessories were made in India and I would get them here in Australia and sell them through the markets. Now, Melbourne's known for its markets and handmade goodies. I've pretty much been to every market from Rose Street to Belgrade to finder keepers, and South Melbourne markets.
You name it, I've been there. That was something I used to do over the weekend. I had this nine-to-five during the weekdays and then I used to do this weekend's markets at my side hustle. Now coming to think of it how I got into the business, I always make this joke that I am actually a bad employee, but I'm a good employer. I mean that's pretty much true. I think my old boss would probably not have information about that. I enjoy doing things on my own. I enjoy being my own boss that was one of the key reasons why I got into the business. I kinda love the challenge of it. Every day is new, it's never the same, and it's never boring. And the idea of learning so many different things excites me and motivates me. Business is something that gave me that kind of freedom of experimenting and knowing and learning and that's when I decided that I want to do more of what I was doing as a side hustle and less of my nine-to-five.
With the jewelry business firstly, do you still have that? You don't have that?
No, I don't. I mean, as I said, it was a side hustle. I did not really give my hundred percent. It wasn't something that would make me financially independent. I wasn't bringing home any money. I pretty much lost quite a bit of money there, frankly speaking. But you go to a market, you make a couple of hundred dollars and then you go to the local cafe and have your breakfast and coffee. It was just like I would spend what I made. It wasn't really a viable means of living, but I learned a lot. I have to give that business credit for what it taught me.
It depends on which suburb you're in. You could have made hundreds and then spent hundreds at breakfast because some of the cafes are so expensive.
Exactly. I mean imagine South Melbourne or Outer Park and then you make 200 and then you literally spend 200. It was fun but then also it wasn't sustainable.
How long from working the nine to five, and I love that you say you're a better employee, but working that and doing the markets to creating Damn Gina, what was the sort of time period there and what is Damn Gina for people who don't know. Also, how'd you come up with the name? Because it's very interesting. Damn Gina.
I know. I'm going to first start with how we transition from jewelry to this. I knew it wasn't working and I was just spending all this time and money trying to go market to market and I couldn't figure out why it wasn't working. I was seeing all this amazing jewelry branch doing really well and I didn't know if it was marketing, but it didn't work. But then I knew for certain this is what I wanted to do with my life. I really knew that business is the way to go. What I did was I started looking for things that I could actually start. I mean I have thought of a lot of ideas. I'm sure a lot of us owners resonate with this. You come up with the idea every day and I wish I could do that.
I was like, “I want to just do some kind of business.” Then that was pretty much the same time I kind of started embracing my naturally curly hair. I have straightened my hair all my life and I hated my hair as a child, as a teenager in my twenties, I started Damn Gina when I was in my early thirties and I really felt all this straightening and chemical treatment, my hair was really getting really bad. It was in a really bad condition and this, whole cell moment was like taking over everywhere we've seen more actual women of different shapes and sizes on runways talking about their experiences growing up. I think that kind of really inspired me to take on this curly hair journey and started doing that.
I saw that there was this massive market gap for hair accessories, for curly hair. There were things for everything else, but curly hair was still a minority market here, unlike the US or the UK where you do have a sizable population who have textured hair and there are a lot of brands and products that cater to them, but not in Australia. That was like a light bulb moment. And that's where the whole idea of starting something for hair know style began like the whole process of coming up with samples or trying to figure out what exactly you even, That's where it began. And coming to think of the name, Damn Gina, I get that's pretty much the first question I get every time I go on an interview. Like, how did it come up with the name?
It's actually not a very exciting story as everyone thinks it's. Because I was literally thinking, “Okay,” this is when I say it's pretty much me and my friends. It's not even like, it's not an organization because I was a sole entrepreneur. I had no employees as such. I was just talking to my friends, and I'm like, I need to create a brand that is young and fun and sassy and has all this humor and it has to have a nice humorous name. And then we sat on Urban Dictionary and went through the best funny phrases of 2019.
In that list, Damn Gina was one of the really cool ones. The first thing I did was go to GoDaddy and check if it was available and was available. I immediately got the registration. I didn't know what I was going to do or if this business idea was even going to work, I just registered the name because I thought that was a really cool name. And then once I started doing a bit of research on it, I realized that it's a very popular phrase from a nineties TV show called Martin in the US it was a sitcom and Gina is the main character and Martin would just go, “Damn Gina,” every time Gina would come up with a sassy comment or if Gina looked really hot. We thought it was perfect, when someone looks really good or like, Damn Gina, your hair looks so good. I mean that kind of was the idea of it. I think that resonated with our customers too. Here we are name Damn Gina.
I love how you said it. It's not a very exciting story. It's totally like there's so much in that answer. The fact that you went to Urban Dictionary, that you looked up, things that you research, kind of where did it come from that you went straight to GoDaddy to check that the URL was available? Like so much in that one answer I say thank you. Also, I love that you talked about an issue or a challenge that you had the whole way through growing up with your hair and then realizing why doesn't this exist where I'm living at the moment. Why doesn't this exist?
I love your website and people will go to this afterward, it's damngina.com.au. There is actually a page meet Gina and you've got this kind of avatar like, “Hey, I'm Gina, I need no introduction, but I'll do it anyway and I'm going to cancel out your bad bad hair days.” And it's almost like this sassy fairy godmother that's going to come on and make everyone feel amazing. How did you move to that? With that whole branding, obviously, you've got a marketing background. With your friends, you are like an advisory group there, are you like, “Okay, this is the whole persona,” like this is Gina the persona and this is the whole thing?
That's a great question, Fiona. I'm an extrovert when it comes to face-to-face, but I'm a complete introvert when it comes to talking to social media, talking to a camera, or showing my face. The main thing I wanted to do was I did not want my profile to be up there. That is why we wanted to create this almost magical and mystical Gina persona. As you said, a fairy godmother, like this favorite aunt would just give it to you as it is. Always sassy, always fun, but never rude, she would never hurt you, but then she's fun. That's the kinda person that we wanted to just have on our website and as Gina herself. It pretty much came from this personal absolute dread to be in public space spaces that this whole Gina persona was created. It was more of self saving technique. I'm sorry, did that answer come out right? Sorry.
That totally came out right. I think it's something that a lot of small business owners kind of grapple with, whether it's a big persona like Gina or whether it's saying “We” instead of “I”. There's so much that we can grapple with in terms of putting ourselves out there and having us be part of the business. I have lots of clients who are like, I never ever want to be part of the business and I never want people to like judge me and put myself forward, and what if that impacts the business negatively? Where are you at at the moment with that? I know I'm kind of putting you on the spot with that question. Does that make sense as well? I don’t know if that makes sense.
Yes, it does. At this point, I am actually actively trying out that mindset. You're absolutely right. A lot of founders, especially women founders, have this whole idea of we don't want to be in the spotlight, we don't want to show our faces, or our personalities, or talk about ourselves. As you said, it's almost like you don't want to associate yourself with the brand in the public in any way because what if I do one thing wrong and it affects the business, am I even worthy of this kind of attention or should I even be there? There are a lot of things that have gone in our minds for me personally, I'm like, am I saying this right, or is it my accent? There are so many things that no one else is thinking about, it's just all in my head, but I say, I just don't want to be the face of it.
What will my college, and high school classmates think of me? They're not even here, they're in India, but you think about random stuff that kind of puts this limit on yourself. I would say that's a very self-imposing thing. I did the same too and I still do it. It's not that I am completely out of it, but I am actively slowly trying to get out of that mindset and get out there and talk about it and talk about how this is my brand. And coming on this podcast was one of those little steps of actually getting out of my own shell is just like, can I speak about it? And you talk about what you build and hopefully, you think that some other founder listens to it and says, that's so me and I need to get out too. And if one person thinks like that, I would be really happy about it.
Yes, and it's interesting because from the outside when I saw one of the ads that you guys have running at Damn Gina and it was your origin story and I already thought the brand was cool, I thought you were cool with messages back and forth. And I was like, oh, this is even more meaningful and more interesting. And also you are the only person who's going to have the exact story that you have. That is a huge differentiator for a lot of people. It's like, why did you specifically start this business and why did these products resonate with you? Your background or your upbringing, whoever, whatever kind of business people have, I feel like that is often a differentiator for people. When you think of the buyer cycle, it's part of the evaluation marketing of like there's a real person behind this brand and maybe somebody went through something similar and so they're going to be more inclined to buy from you than a nameless, faceless big brand that's out there.
That's absolutely correct. The ad that resonated with you has resonated with so many other women. I think one of our best-running ads at the moment. I was so surprised because even putting an ad out was like a milestone for me to actually get out there and get my face and photos from my childhood to be there out there in the public. But I did it and I think that was one of the key parts of this entire business that kind of gave me more confidence to be out there and actually talk about it and make more business friends or just be there and say, “Yes, I own this brand,” I created this from scratch and this is what I do. It's very empowering by the way.
Yes, it is. Also, I love what you said before that, so much of what we tell ourselves like we are self-limited. We are limiting ourselves, but usually, a lot of it is just in our heads. It never actually eventuates, it never happens the way that we think it'll happen. When I wrote my book, I was so petrified that somebody was going to say, “You are not an accredited business coach” even though there are no regulations on business coaching. And I'd been doing it for six years and I'd had thousands of clients and I had 20 years of experience in marketing and brand and systems. I felt like even with all of that, I was petrified that somebody would say, But you are not accredited. Then I went and spent $7,000 on accreditation, which frankly did not teach me anything.
I don't say that lightly. I thought it was a complete waste of time. It actually made me more inclined to not want to be with an accredited business coach because they're all just being taught the exact same questions to ask. But it's funny because it's like no one has ever said that to me, but I had made it in my head that the book was going to come out. I'll have more exposure. I don't think, it doesn't matter who you are, I feel like we all suffer from that. Kinda a question in our heads, which often doesn't actually end up happening.
I mean, it's kind of heartening to hear your experience with that as well because as I mentioned before, I have met you like I met you like as it was one way, you were talking in one of the Shopify events and I heard you speak and I was like absolutely inspired, I've been a fan girl since then, and this was like back in I think or something and that's when I had business and I was doing the hustle and I was like, why is it not working? And then I see this woman get on the stage and talk and “You spoke so well”. I think one of the best pitches, one of the best talks I've heard on that Shopify meetup group. I was like, I have to get some business coaching from this woman because she sounds awesome.
Thank you and now I'm a fan girl over you. Part of when we're talking about putting yourself out there and congratulations for doing things because I know getting on a podcast, doing ads, I mean of course getting your childhood photos like all that stuff is hard. But then the more you do it, the easier it becomes and I think it's a huge differentiator for people's brand, the origin story, and who's behind the business and for your particular industry, the hair and beauty industry, and all the associated accessories with that. It's such a competitive industry. I have consulted quite a few bigger companies, one of which is L'Oreal in Australia and they have like 52 brands underneath them and worldwide I think the hair and beauty industry is around 240 billion. It is huge and there are massive players like Maybelline and L'Oreal and all the things that will come and see a trend and just cut it quickly and try and undercut it with price and stockists and just their leverage. I'm wondering how have you managed for Damn Gina, you are just about to turn three massive congratulations to make a name for yourself in a relatively short period of time and throughout a pandemic when people were not shopping as much in physical stores and there wasn't events and everything else. How do you think that's happened? Is it just your incredible marketing background or how has that happened?
Thank you. As you said, it's a very competitive industry and it's a huge industry like the amount of competition you have is in. But then also I think the differentiator for us is we are an accessories brand and even the hair care brand is hot and happening, the accessory sector is a kind of sleepy sector. Most brands, visual shampoos, conditioner masks, they kinda add accessories as an afterthought and they always have a few clips or they have like a hair towel, microfiber towel or they have an eye mask, and something to do with hair mist. It's not really the main product. That was one of the key data and that really worked for us. People kinda knew if I want to go get something to predict curl or predict my hairstyle, I can go to this brand because that's what they are specifically mastering or that's their specialty instead of an afterthought or instead of like it is an answer to access to be along with the other mailing products.
I think that that really gave us the edge over the other brands. There wasn't really any brand that was clearly focusing only on hair wraps or bonnets or anything for curly hair here in Australia. I know there are a couple of big brands in the US but not in Australia. Also as I said, it's sleepy because you do get a lot of satin hair wraps, turbines, sleep caps, and all of that. But you have to go to eBay or Amazon and you don't know who is selling it and you kind of hope that it is good and it fits you only and you'll only know once it reaches you. Hopefully after like 15, 20, or 30 days. That was another key differentiator. From the get-go, we kept saying, we are in Melbourne, we ship from this suburb and we are an Australian brand and this is where our products get made.
This is the kind of fabric that we use and this is who makes it. We were very transparent from day one and as I said, pandemic, who knew that we would have a pandemic in our lifetime, but then it happened and nothing was getting out of India. There was no DHL, DHL stopped its operations in India and we had to improvise because I had just started the brand and I went on pre-order for a month and a half, 45 days. People waited 45 days to get their products. That was when we thought, this is going to work because people were ready to wait for 45 days. We were very honest throughout this pandemic, we are going on pre-order because we sold out of stock way too quickly.
We did not expect that. And secondly, there's no shipping happening right now from other countries so you have to wait. People were okay to wait, they just wanted to know why it was getting delayed. And as long as you communicate that to your customers, they're more than happy to wait for you if they really love the product. That's what hap that's precisely what happened to us. Through the pandemic they bought it and I think in a way people weren't spending much, but however people also kinda cut back on styling their hair or using makeup, they wanted to care for their hair and our product is perfect for something when you're indoors sitting and just caring for your hair, not using starting products, not straightening, not doing any heat treatments. It was a perfect time to kind of give your hair a break I guess. We kind of did well through the pandemic. It's kinda awful to say that, but that's what happened.
I work with a lot of people who did well, they had their best years during the pandemic and a lot in the homeware space, furniture, homewares interiors, that kind of thing. I think you feel awkward, but it's a fact. I think own it as well. Also, you learn through that. I love that you said just to be clear with your customers and that clear communication can go a long way as opposed to trying to apologize or make it out like, “We don't know what's going on.” Just be really transparent and that builds a lot of trust.
Absolutely. I've always been there every time there's a price increase if there is a delay if there's a change in color, or if there's a change in the design itself, I've always been super honest and, email our customers and let them know this is what is happening behind the scenes, I just want you to be aware of it. If you have any feedback or if you have anything to any questions, please get in touch with us. I've always been there and every time I do that I send emails from my name so that they know that it's not like some customer service person sending these emails, but it's just the owner of the brand sitting there and actually typing this email and sending it out. That made our customers close to us. I like it this way.
You were talking about things not coming out from India and you are originally from India and you mentioned before being worried about your classmates in India, like seeing you here and being like, what is she doing? You mentioned before that you studied in Singapore, you sound like a jet setter, Sumana. What made you make the move to Australia? I guess how has the heritage influenced the business? Because I know that we have spoken not on this podcast, but we've spoken separately about some of the kind of hair traditions that you grew up with that were standard in India, but you didn't immediately think of those as part of your business. No matter where you grow up like my parents had certain Irish traditions that were not stock standard here and you don't know it until you get outside of it and you're like, “Okay.” How has being from India influenced your business and why did you come to Australia?
It's been a bit of a journey. I was born in India. I studied there and grew up there. Then I did go to Singapore to do my masters, uh, in marketing. That's where I met my husband and we got married and then we moved to Hong Kong. I was actually in Hong Kong for a brief period too. Because he was working in the finance industry and he had to move and I wasn't really doing anything in Hong Kong. And that's pretty practically one of the reasons I left Hong Kong early. He was there for another year after I left, but then I just couldn't just, I just couldn't sit at home and do nothing. But I had a degree in marketing, but if you have to be in marketing in Hong Kong, you need to be bilingual. It was really hard for me to get a job, I was like, “I'm out of here.” After a year of kinda having fun in Hong Kong, I would say.
How did Australia happen? Definitely looking for a calmer, quieter lifestyle Australia offers. That was one of the key reasons. One of our friends moved to Australia from Singapore and he actually asked us to visit him when we were in Singapore and we did, and we were in Sydney for a short visit and short stay, and we absolutely loved it. We adored the weather. However, I ended up in Melbourne. That's a different story.
I was just going to say. But then you realized Melbourne was so much better and you decided to come down.
I love Melbourne. I'm not a Sydney sider at all. No offense to Sydney because I love Sydney, but I'm not a Sydney sider. I just love Melbourne. Melbourne's home. We just came to Sydney for a visit and we really loved it and we thought, okay, yeah, this is the right place for us. I think eventually if you're going to have a family, this is where I want to bring up my kids because when you live in Singapore or Hong Kong, you kinda appreciate open spaces, definitely the vastness of the land was something that we really were pretty much, we fell in love with, I would say. We like Australia, it's funny because in India cricket is such a big thing.
Australian's been coming to India for a very long time now, it kinda almost feels like we know Australia for some random reasons. That's one of the key reasons it happened is because we loved it. We loved the worseness, we loved the people, and we also wanted a better life for us and our families now my daughter, that's why Australia happened. And coming to think of the cultural side of India, you're absolutely right, because I was born and brought up in India, I did not really think of the rituals I had growing up or the difference in the lifestyle or the way we lived our life there back there and here was any, it did not strike to me as something that was unique only to me because I have seen a lot of Australian Indian kids who grew up here, who were born, brought up here.
They probably had a nostalgia from their parents that I missed out on that part, you grew up in India in this part, and how was it? they kinda want to hold onto that and they go back and they actually see with a different set of eyes and they bring their back with them. But that never really happened to me because I grew up there. But it kind of happened this year because of the pandemic. I had not gone back to India for almost five. And this year I visited my home and everything was different. For the first time in my life, I actually looked at it, probably from an Australian point of view, I would say. I was like, “This is amazing. How did I forget all of these?” This is what we used to do when we were kids.
There were these memories coming back to me. And that's when I realized I have used absolutely nothing from my culture or heritage in my business so far, except for the fact my products are made in India. That was because I knew the language and I kinda had this trust that I can go back there and I can get the right products for myself. But apart from that, I did not use any part of it. And hair is such a huge part of the Indian lifestyle. Indian hair is so famous and I did not use one bit of it. The reason is it just didn't occur to me.
I find it fascinating. My husband's from an Indian background but he was born here and grew up here and when you were just talking then about the children that are from an Indian background, but are raised, growing up Australian and they have this nostalgia. It's totally that. I think it's similar that a lot of places, I feel like my dad used to always be like all the American Irish that have never set foot in Ireland but have this concept that, like this nostalgia. Even here in Melbourne, a lot of the time you'll hear people from Italy be like, the pizza in Melbourne is kind of more Italian because it's a lot of the Italians that came over in the fifties and then kept things sort of that way. Whereas maybe the Italy things have progressed and got more modern and, and globalized and stuff. I think it's fascinating, but I think it's a beautiful thing to bring into the business, especially again, going back to differentiators with your brand in a very competitive space. I can't wait to see all the other things that, that you bring now that you've had that trip back home as well.
I came back with so many new ideas, I'm so excited to try and implement them all.
Yes. With that idea, like having an idea, and even when you said I went to India to get the products because I trusted it and you knew maybe where to go, but how do you go from having an idea to actually manufacturing, launching a brand, working with content creators and selling it? You've talked about this study that you did and then working in for this Canadian fashion brand, but with the jewelry business, it doesn't sound like it was as big as this at all. How did you go from like, I've got this idea to this is a fully-fledged business and I'm full-time in it?
It happened to me by chance. I would say like at this point I started this brand and this time I had more structure than when I started my jewelry brand. There was the intention for this jewelry brand was more ad hoc. I would just go day by day, whichever way the business pulled me, I was more having fun with it and not really thinking or having an intention of what I wanted to be. But with Damn Gina, I would say that it was a more intention-based plan. From day one, I was, okay, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to do it the right way. I do know there is no a hundred percent right or a hundred percent perfect in a business. But then I had the intention of it.
From day one, I'm going to get these samples made. I'm going to try a few different manufacturers. I'm going to go through the process of not rushing it and actually having a good prototype in my hand. It almost took me seven months to get the prototype of our best-selling hair app is like, which was approved, and say, “Okay, let's make 50 pieces of these and see how we go.” Like even whatever, a hundred pieces. Before that, we had a lot of iterations, and we had a lot of different designs, and concepts going on. As I mentioned, I also had accessories in my jewelry brand. One of the manufacturers did my accessories for my jewelry brand. I spoke to him about it and it kind of, the Unis came together. He was only doing gum fabrics before this, but when I started trying to find the right manufacturer for Damn Gina, he had just set up a new garment setup.
He had like five tailors and he was trying it out. He was new, so he was more than happy to do it for me in like a really small quantity. And he was also really nice to let me take the first batch of products without paying him a cent. He just sent it to me, he's like, “Okay, this is a prototype you like, I'm going to send 50 pieces.” He said I think he sent me like hundred pieces total. I'm going to send you a hundred pieces, and see if you can sell them. If you sell them, it's good for both of us. And if you can't, it's okay. We haven't really taken a big risk. If you can sell, then you can gimme the money, otherwise, we'll talk about it later. That's pretty much what he said, and I will forever be grateful to him for helping me the right way.
That's what we did. We kind of finalized a prototype and we said, “Okay, go.” And we got like a hundred pieces and we sought them out immediately. That's when we knew that we had a winning product in hand. And that's where it all began. If anyone's listening to this and who's wondering, “Wait, how do I go for a manufacturer?” I would always say, test out a few different guys. You will always find the one with whom you resonate, even on a personal level, it's not all about business. You need to really like the person too. I would definitely say test out a few different guys and see who you resonate with the most and how enthusiastic they are about your business and your product. And then definitely go from there.
What a story, when you said the universe collides, I know it sounds a bit wishy-washy sometimes, but I really do think that if you are committed like if you are 120% committed and you give that energy out, I feel like not, it's not like a fairy godmother that everything's just perfect. It's not like a Damn Gina in your life. But I do think that sometimes when you put things out, all sorts of things start happening that you're like, okay people come forward that, for example, this guy that was like, “Hey, I'll just create these and if they sell,” then that's good for both of us. What an opportunity. That's so cool.
Absolutely.
Another thing that has come up in your brand is that niching down, like having these items for curly hair and you ha having that kind of at the start, even though I know that your hair products can be used by everyone, I mean I think like people with straight hair as well. What process did you go through to niche down and did you have a question? Am I going to niche with just focusing on curly hair or have you changed your mind since you started? Or how's that all going?
It was intentionally niching down. One is because I had experience with curly hair because I have curly hair, it was less of, I did not have to do much research for it because I was experimenting on myself. It kinda sounded all good. And secondly, there weren't any curly hair products. I actually read one of these articles back then, which said, Head gene is a feminine gene. We will all probably end up being humans and will probably have more curly hair, we'll have more curly hair humans than non-curly hair humans in the near future. That is very fascinating to me. I don't know the merits of this research, let me put it out there like a disclaimer, but then this is what I read. I'm like, this is amazing. This means the entire world is my oyster.
That was a good point to kind of push to niche it down a little bit more. It was intentionally niched down to curly hair. Once I started the product, we realized a little bit more like even straight hair people, especially blonde, straight hair, women were really enjoying our products because it really helped with non-matting, it helped them use breakage and matting of their hair. I really think it's important to niche down because if you can, we know a certain group of people, like whoever is your target market, they will be the ones who do the word for you and put it out there for the larger population. I would definitely recommend any business to down to your ideal target audience in curly hair. And then if you do create a product that is really good for them, which helps them in some way, they'll actually do the job of carrying forward the word and the work marketing and help you grow your brand beyond them.
I could not agree more. People spend so much time on awareness marketing and not enough on advocacy because if those people like you say you've got a whole army, then that is going out and talking about your brand. And that is incredible. We all will trust what our friends say way more than we trust something that we see in an ad. I think it's such a smart way to do things and who knew that we're all going to have curly hair, that's amazing.
Don't hold me for it. Because I really don’t know about this research.
But you're like, that sounds good. It goes with my business. Just kidding. We won't hold you to it. Who has helped you with your business? It sounds like you've done a huge amount of research and learned yourself, plus you had a background, plus you've got a lot of just drive and determination. Have you had any mentors or books that have helped you or a film or a conversation even that really stood out to help you? Likewise, any tech apps or tech tools that have helped you a lot?
Absolutely. I love this question. I will go down any rabbit hole you show me if that interests me. Like that's my superpower. I may not be good at anything else but research. I'm your girl. Definitely researching a lot of things really helped me. I'm a very curious person sometimes to the point of absolute it, it'll get me nothing, but then I'll just go down that hole. That's one thing that really helped me with this business. Also, in terms of mentors, I don't really have a mentor, but there are a few people who really helped me through this business, personally, my husband, I've always heard people say it really matters who you end up with, like the partner you have and that’s so true
He has been an absolute legend, through all of this. He has been my biggest critic and my helper with all things. He's got a keen eye. I think he would be a great businessman. He's just not interested in it. He definitely is someone whom I look up to for a lot of advice and things, especially websites or anything to do with accounting, all of that. He's really good at those things. Next, I actually listen to a lot of podcasts. That's one of my favorites to do. I do listen to My Daily Business Coach and I love the Gold Digger. But then one of my favorite podcasts would be My First Million by these two guys, Sam Parr and Shaan Puri. They literally dissect a lot of businesses and I do get a lot of my information from there. I actually strangely get a lot of my knowledge from Twitter.
What do you think of the whole Elon Musk? I'm putting you on the spot. Do you think he's ruining everything?
It's very interesting to see how it's unraveling, every day. I don't know much about him, like, I'm not a person, I don't really know much about him, except for the fact that he keeps making these really stupid statements on Twitter. Part of it, I really don't have much of an opinion of them.
That's interesting though as a business thing. Do you follow certain business leaders? How has Twitter helped you?
I do follow a lot of marketing agencies, marketing guys, and guys who have done really well in the eCommerce space. I do follow a lot of eCommerce Twitter and there are a few guys like Social Savannah who do really good ads for TikTok. She's a good one to follow. You have someone called James Jack. I can't remember the names, but I do know their faces and the content. The guy Moiz Ali sold the native deodorant brand. It was a billion-dollar brand. He built a billion dollars. I follow him. He gives out a lot of good advice. And latest, I hope I'm pronouncing her name right, Ju Rhyu, she's the owner of Hero Cosmetics. We just recently sold 84 million pimple patches.
Are these like little stickers that you put on your pimples?
Yes. I do follow a lot of leaders in the E-com space and how they're doing and what they're doing. That's where I learn a lot from. And also, locally, I do listen to, as I said, a lot of podcasts, like My Daily Business Coach. I also used to listen to this other podcast from a fellow brand owner called Kayla. She has skincare and she used to do a podcast and that really gave me a lot of info when I started the way to go about it. The podcast is what I would say where I get all my information from
I love this. And obviously having a podcast, I like to hear that they're helpful. But I'm definitely going to check out Social Savannah and some of the other people that you mentioned. What are you most proud of from your journey in business so far?
That's a loaded question. Everything, it's very hard to not see it on a day-to-day basis. I have my moments and my low days where like, what am I doing? Why am I doing, like, I've done nothing in my life? I do have these moments going on, but then also when I look at the bigger picture, I was like, I came to this country eight years ago and I used to share a house somewhere in South Melbourne. And from there I knew no one, absolutely no one, not a single family member. I came alone cause my husband wasn't there. And to where I am today have two brands, but nevertheless, I had a brand and then a second brand and a job and friends and family and home. Actually sitting here and talking to you on this podcast, it just feels surreal. I'm definitely going to own it and say I'm really proud of it all.
I think that's one of my favorite answers ever to that question. It just makes you, we don't look back enough sometimes and I literally just put out an email about this weekend. We don't look back on like how far you have come from that share house to running an amazing business and making friends at all. I lived in London for four years and my parents, and when my parents came here, my mom knew no one at all, not a single person. I get how hard that can be.
And you're sort of going to things being like, Please be friends with me. I don't know anyone. It's amazing and I'm sure you'll have a bunch of people trying to contact you after this. On that note, what's next for you and for Damn Gina. And if people are listening and thinking, she sounds amazing. I'd like to either buy the products or get in touch, where can people best connect with you
Next for Damn Gina? As I said, this Indian trip this time was my pre-moment. I've come back with so many different ideas and new ideas and I put it out to my community about actually getting into head care. I buy Indian rituals and hers, and that's where we are currently heading to us, a lot of sampling, a lot of testing, and self-experimentation. That's what is going on behind the scenes in Damn Gina because I don't want to just get out, get some random products out there I'll just slap some tumor on it and just say, Indian based or Indian or inspired, we want to do it the right way. We want products that work because as you said, it's like a really competitive market and we don't want to be another product on the shelf, but we really want it to have an impact on people's lives and their beauty journey.
That's our number one priority for the coming year. As for me personally, I was talking about this to you before Fiona, how important it is to get out of your shell and actually build a brand for yourself if that's what you want. I definitely want to build that personal brand to be out there to speak to more founders, make those connections, and share this journey together. That's something I'm working on, and that will be more of me on different platforms in the next coming year. And that's pretty much what it is from me and Damn Gina. For our products, you can check them out at damngina.com.au. And I am on Instagram, @sumana.simha that's my husband's surname on Instagram. You can cash up with me over there and I'm always free to answer any questions you have about a business or curly hair.
I love this. Thank you so much for coming on, I just knew it would be a good conversation, but I just really thoroughly enjoyed this and can't wait to see how the brand grows and evolves and how your figurehead marketing just goes wild in the next year. Thank you so much for taking the time, especially with a young child and so much going on and all the sales and crazy times of the year. Thank you.
Thank you so much, Fiona it's been an absolute pleasure. I adore you. Thank you.
Likewise. All right, bye
Bye.
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I could have literally kept talking to Sumana for seriously another couple of hours at least. Many insights and tips from tech tools like Ask Viable that I've never heard of www.askviable.com I think it is, I looked it up, We'll link to that in the show notes, but also through to just being really honest about how hard it's been to put herself as the face of the brand and the figurehead of the brand. I know that is something so many people struggle with, and I do talks on humanizing a business or humanizing a brand, and we talk about the fact that there's, I mean, as of this month, there are literally 8 billion people on the planet, and as cheesy as it sounds, there's only one new, there's only one person who's had the exact experiences that you have had.
Utilize that as a differentiator. Utilize your stories, your experiences, your career to date, whatever it is, utilize that as a point of differentiation. And it doesn't mean that your whole social media feed needs to turn into 24/7 selfies. It does not mean that you're trying to become the next global personal brand, but it does mean that your customers and clients and stockers and suppliers get to really experience who you are and connect with a human behind a business and not just the other stuff that they see. Many things stood out, honestly, as I said, I could have just kept talking to Sumana. I'm really excited to meet her in real life sometime soon because she's just so excited and enthusiastic about her business. I think also her background in terms of her career and her study, it just, she's got all this knowledge and it's exciting when you see somebody pour that into a business and you see the business do so well as a consequence of that.
I just think it’s absolutely awesome. With Damn Gina, if anyone's listening and is like, “I really want to check out their products,” we are actually bringing this episode out early in line with a sale that Damn Gina is having. If you're listening to this in real-time, check out everything that they've got on at the moment. And you can find that at Damn Gina, that's damngina.com.au. We'll link to that in the show notes. You can also follow @damn.gina.au on social media. And as Sumana said, her personal Instagram is @sumana.simha. She was very vulnerable and transparent and talked about how she's trying to build her own personal brand. Go on over and give her a follow and help other small business owners with their own dreams and hopes.
Lots of things stood out, but two come to mind first, I love that she talked about being clear and transparent with your customers and that when you be clear and you have clear communications such as these things are going to be delayed because of, or “Hey, we said this and now situations have changed and this is going to happen,” can only be a good thing. Don't shy away from this has happened. Lean into that and embrace it and be honest with your customers and clients. And quite often what you'll find is massive support. I have had multiple things happen in my career and in this business over the last seven years from this year. Just this year alone experienced the passing of my father-in-law, which is quite unexpected. Also going through massive back issues, which meant I couldn't really walk for six to eight weeks, and couldn't do any work for the first few weeks of that.
Couldn't drive, just my whole world just kind of came in covid. I mean, just things go on and on. This has not been like the best year of my life, but there have been so many great parts of it. But with each of those, as bad as it was to go back to my clients and some of them I felt like, they're going to just think I have, I've got a cloud of darkness over me because, or they're going to think that I'm making this up. I was just really honest with them and I was like, “You won't believe it, but my son actually has gastro,” so yet again, I'm without child care and I won't be able to do our call today. Just being honest and real with them. Likewise, when my mother passed away incredibly suddenly in 2017, I'd just taken on a huge amount of work and I had to go to every single person and say, I'm really sorry my mother's died.
I'm sorry that this is going through and I'm going to have to take a week off. It was, I don't know how long I'm going to have to take off. I totally get that. You may need a consultant earlier, and you may need to do these workshops earlier, please let me know and I can hook you up with somebody who could do a similar job to me. And every single one of them to their credit, will like take as long as you like. And quite often when you share that stuff that's going on, other people will come in. I always remember this wonderful client I had and he said my nanna passed not too long ago I was devastated and it's taken me a long time to get over it and I take your time.
I think those human connections that we have only strengthen the relationship that we have with people. I love that she talked about clear communication, and telling people what's going on so that they can be along on the journey with you as well. Another great brand that does this really well is Think Thornbury, Maggie May in particular from Think Thornbury, I mean, and Joshua Kelly, but Maggie May is a huge part of the voice there and in her own accounts as well, is very honest about this is what's going on. And I think that's why Josh and Maggie have created this huge community around them that has been there when they've most needed it, particularly during the pandemic. I love what Sumana was saying about that, and I think she said the fact that people were willing to wait like 40-plus days for stuff when they, when she was first launching things or knowing that things are selling out, it only strengthened the validation as well in, in her belief that this is something that people need and it's going to work.
I love that point. The second thing I wanted to raise from the chat with Sumana is the idea of looking into our own heritage. And this goes hand in hand with the origin story and how we've come to where we are. I think all of us, every single person will have certain things that we were brought up with, whether it is storytelling. I love Karen from Radical Yes. Talks about the fact that she grew up with her father that was a CFO for a major, major retailer here, and she had seen, and she was interested in the books and the accounting and that and that sort of stuff. I feel like these are things that people want to hear from us. They want to hear, how has your upbringing influenced your life now? Because quite often we can draw parallels with each other, whether we are from two completely different cultures, two completely different ways of living, or two different hemispheres on the planet.
There are so many similarities we have as humans. We have more similarities than differences by far. And when we can talk about those things, it really allows other people to connect with us and be like, we had a very similar upbringing too, whether it was a completely different culture, religion, nationality, whatever it is. We have so many connection points, and I think sometimes we can shy away from talking about that stuff because we think, as Sumana said, doesn't everyone go through this? Or doesn't everyone use these kinds of hair treatments? And two is that we worry that maybe we are going to repel some people. And yes, we will, with every marketing activity, with everything that you put out, there will be people that have repelled, but there are also, on the flip side, more often, a lot more people that are attracted to what it is that you're putting out.
I could literally just keep listing off all the things that came out of today's episode with Sumana from Damn Gina, but I will leave it there. As I said, if you'd like to connect with Sumana, you can find her on Instagram @sumana.simha. You can also connect with Damn Gina, that's at @damn.gina.au. The website is damngina.com.au, and we'll link to all of that in the show notes, which you'll be able to find over at mydailybusinesscoach.com/podcast/256. Thank you so much, Sumana, for coming on and sharing so many goodies, and can't wait to hear what everyone thinks of this episode, don't be a stranger. You can send us a message at @mydailybusinesscoach or email at hello@mydailybusinesscoach.com. See you next time. Bye.
Thanks for listening to the My Daily Business Coach podcast. If you want to get in touch, you can do that at mydailybusinesscoach.com or hit me up on Instagram @mydailybusinesscoach.
